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Apple introduces Penryn-based MacBooks and MacBook Pros - Page 5

post #161 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by ARCH1971 View Post

---
Thanks for your feedback! Let me get a little more precise on what I am looking for:

Q1: I would be using the new MBP 15" in mobile setting (all things equal). Usually "mobile" would mean "no heavy lifiting" on graphics as you pointed out entirely right:
>> Would the simple fact of 256 (vs. 512MB graphics) suck less on my battery, and I could count with about 3-4 hrs (web/office)? (vs. less than 3hrs with the 512 option?)

Q2: Would the 256MB produce less heat when barely used, compared to the 512? Or is there no difference to be expected when used similarly?

Q3: ..and that one actually stems staright from your advice: would heavy lifting drain a 256MB 15" MBP more than the 512, or less?

Thanks again for all feedback!!

For mobility, my best suggetion is to get macbook. but if you still want a MBP, 3 hours maybe good, 4 hours i think is pushing it. If you used the whole 256 vram, most likely you will not get to 3 hours (i am kind of skeptical if it can reach 3 hours). 512 is even less, Apple's battery is nothing special. It is the same as PCs.

Q2: the heat i think you should be more worry about is the cpu. Cause thats the part thats running the whole notebook. In my experience, do not ever put a MBP on your lap. it burns!!!
i think there is an argument out there why apple name their notebook, notebook not laptop. Its because it cannot be place on your lap. As far as the graphics, i think it does not produce as much heat as the cpu. Cause the more graphic you use, the more cpu you use.

Q3: i think it will be about the same cause if you use 64mb of vram in 256 graph card, its the same 64mb of vram in 512 graph card, but, if nvidia has created something more efficient in power usage, that might be the difference worth checking it out.
post #162 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by IanNewt View Post

MacBook Pro includes the latest NVIDIA graphics processors

I thought that the 8800M was the "latest" NVIDIA graphics processor for laptops. The previous generation of MBP's already had the 8600M, but with only 256MB video ram max.

Who knows what kind of performance difference there is between the 8600M and 8800M ?

Ian \

You're not going to get an 8800M GPU in a thin metal enclosure like the Macbook Pro's. It would get waaaay too hot and it would destroy the battery life.
post #163 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pine View Post

What do you want to see? New keyboard and magnetic latch? Then the next release may be for you.

Yes! The problem is we have been waiting for a long, long time. I remember when everyone was expecting a major redesign for the Intel transition. It never came. The excuse was that Apple needed to get Intel based models out right away and didn't have them time. So everyone thought the next revision would bring changes. Never happened. Then the next revision. Nope. Over and over again. The lower-end MacBook has features the higher-end MacBook Pros lack. How long will this stand? With reports of slowing iPod growth and the Mac as the only remaining growth driver can Apple really afford to be complacent? I don't think so.

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post #164 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by IanNewt View Post

MacBook Pro includes the latest NVIDIA graphics processors

I thought that the 8800M was the "latest" NVIDIA graphics processor for laptops. The previous generation of MBP's already had the 8600M, but with only 256MB video ram max.

Who knows what kind of performance difference there is between the 8600M and 8800M ?

Ian \


I dont know wether apple underclock the graph card, but i saw asus lambo with the same graph card as the previous one clocked at 512. So i guess the problem was the heat
post #165 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by ros3ntan View Post

Dude, apple's plan is to erase all dvd. They just want everything online through itunes. Yes, there is HD in itunes. there are some free hd podcast. you might want to check it out

HD rentals only through AppleTV, the rest of the HD are just podcasts, and not all that many of them.
post #166 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Can you offer good reasons why it needs to have a DVD burner in it? If I could get a MBP with a Combo drive, I would.

It would save you less than $5. Seriously. That's why most notebooks don't use combo drives anymore. If you need to have an optical drive in the thing anyway, you might as well spend the tiny bit more to get a DVD writer. I don't need it, but I would at least want the full writing capability. Even if you're just going to ditch the drive for an Optibay, a writer would be easier to sell.
post #167 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

And how exactly does that excuse an apple laptop with a DVD burner costing $1299 when PCs for less than half that price include it? And even if you think a $1099 model with no DVD burner is acceptable (which I personally find laughable), how do you excuse a $200 charge to get the burner (which includes other options which the user may or may not need)?

I'd love to see apple do a cheaper, more stripped down model for schools. But it should be more like $599-799. These days, $1099 isn't a budget machine, it's a midpriced one, and the features should live up to the price. Overall they do, but the omission of superdrive is absolutely glaring.

When schools order those in bulk, they probably are getting them for $799 if not cheaper. If you're looking to buy a mac with the lowest common denominator, you're doing it because it has an Apple logo and not because of what's actually inside of it. Apple will always hose that group with small but important setbacks just so people will get the next big thing. It's just a matter of if you're willing to make that sacrifice. How many DVD's would you actually burn? I think it's definitely a convenient feature but I've had a spindle of 50 DVD-R's for 18 months now and I've used maybe 5. I'm definitely not saying a I speak for anyone else but me, but do you want it for usage, convenience, or you think it's owed to you?
post #168 of 424
Today, I'm one of those whiners that we all hate so much... here goes.

This day made me very sad because it means I will soon have to spend a lot of money on a mac notebook that I don't really want. MacBook Pro: Too big, old clunky keyboard, too heavy and I hate to say it: dated design. MacBook: old trackpad, unfortunately too weak on graphics for my needs, too heavy for its form factor. MacBook Air: Here I don't care about graphics performance, but I really need firewire, and a bit more storage. The Air is the only mac notebook these days that I really really want though.. I think it's fantastic. But no...

*sigh*
post #169 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

You really need to get a grip. Apple is effectively lowering the cost of the MBP by this deletion and not passing the savings on to the consumer.

That's the thing though. You don't know that. If they included the remote, maybe the HD would be a little smaller. If they included the remote, maybe the MBP doesn't have a multi touch trackpad, etc. It's all speculation, and the traffic goes both ways.

None of us have any idea whether apple's margins are higher, lower, or the same as the last revision.
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post #170 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

HD rentals only through AppleTV, the rest of the HD are just podcasts, and not all that many of them.

right, which is erases the need for burner or dvd altogether.Pretty sure apple is going to increase its hd content as soon as people have fast connection.
post #171 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by palegolas View Post

Today, I'm one of those whiners that we all hate so much... here goes.

This day made me very sad because it means I will soon have to spend a lot of money on a mac notebook that I don't really want. MacBook Pro: Too big, old clunky keyboard, too heavy and I hate to say it: dated design. MacBook: old trackpad, unfortunately too weak on graphics for my needs, too heavy for its form factor. MacBook Air: Here I don't care about graphics performance, but I really need firewire, and a bit more storage. The Air is the only mac notebook these days that I really really want though.. I think it's fantastic. But no...

*sigh*

cant get everything man. Thats just how life is..
post #172 of 424
Two points

Firstly, I was wondering how long it would take for this to happen. Back in the heady days of PowerPC, it wasn't so easy for consumers to compare Apples and PCs like-for-like, because nobody else was really using the PowerPC platform. The result was that Apple was able to enjoy higher margins.

With the move to Intel, it has become very easy for consumers to compare Apples and PCs like-for-like and Apple has no option but to be transparent. Funnily enough, Apple isn't keen to decrease its margins, and clever moves like incremental upgrades that don't require an expensive redesign and features that used to come as standard now costing extra are all tell tale signs that Apple is trying to conserve their margins. If everyone else's prices are dropping, and Apple prices stay virtually the same, we're going to end up in exactly the same pickle that we were in before!

Unfortunately, this is true of a lot of Apple's products. How long are we going to have to wait on a refresh of the Cinema Display family. It's unbelievably out of date and over priced. What about the Mac mini?

Secondly with regards to the face lift which didn't happen Apple has to make the Air look as attractive as possible in comparison to the other notebooks because the Air MUST offer them higher margins. If Apple gave their other notebooks a face lift, and they looked as good as the Air, nobody in their right mind would buy the Air at it's current price.
OK, can I have my matte Apple display, now?
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post #173 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tailpipe View Post

This is too little too late.

Where are the new MBPs that have been seen at Cupertino? I guess it'll be another six months before they arrive. That means Apple will debut a Montevina MBP onths after everyone else.

No wonder the share price is langusihing at $120. It deserves to.

Talk about disappointed. I could cry.

So Tailpipe? Where is the case redesign? It seems your reliable sources aren't that real.
post #174 of 424
Wait, nevermind...

Sorry about that.
post #175 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by wbrasington View Post

You're whining about their pricing, and pointing at a 19 buck remote that almost nobody uses.
You're not just a little girl..... you're a cry-baby too.

$19 for that remote!
It should be more like 19 cents. No wonder the stock keeps falling.
post #176 of 424
how many of you honestly like the "new" key design better than the one that's still included with the MBP?
i prefer the slightly concave keys far more.

the apple remote for 19 bucks. yeah, i used that thing ONCE when i first got my machine. now it's in a drawer somewhere. i'll sell it to you for 18 bucks if i can find it. the remote SHOULD have been designed to fit in the expresscard slot. it's probably the longest standing piece of design in the apple product line - it hasn't been updated since October 2005.
post #177 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by palegolas View Post

Today, I'm one of those whiners that we all hate so much... here goes.

This day made me very sad because it means I will soon have to spend a lot of money on a mac notebook that I don't really want. MacBook Pro: Too big, old clunky keyboard, too heavy and I hate to say it: dated design.

I really don't think your points have much merit, at least in my opinion. I think your statement of clunky keyboard is devoid of actual experience, the new MacBook style keyboards are really quite cheap, they rattle around and the MBP keyboards are clearly more precise action, and have a better sculpted feel. There's hardly any shape at all to the new style (MacBook) keys.
post #178 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Keep in mind that the extra costs of duties, complying with regulation, as well as extra taxes on businesses, and a much higher cost of living on the Apple employees there in distribution, service and support, all lead to a higher price. The last time I looked at Apple's finance sheets, Apple makes less margin in Europe despite the higher prices.

I can't prove it but my educated guess is that Apple cost shifts its sales to Europe to avoid the higher tax regime, thus making Europe look less profitable.

It is simply done by charging the European subsidiary a higher wholesale price, thereby reducing the profit on sales in Europe and raising the profit of the US HQ.

btw I am surprised that you are able to obtain detailed figures on Apple's Europe operations. Here in Australia they release no financial details.
post #179 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by L255J View Post

I bought a Macbook for $1100 dollars Mid-2007. It had:
1 GB of Ram
120 GB Hard drive
2.16 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo processor
Dual-Layer Superdrive

Now, if you pay Apple $1100, they'll give you a Macbook with:
1 GB of Ram
120 GB Hard drive
2.1 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo processor
Combo drive

Wow. Lame_as_hell.

if you havent realize, thats how the computer world is. Everywhere... pc or mac
post #180 of 424
Does this mean that Apple is not going to support Blu-ray? They surely would have added one by now. Would Blu-Ray cut into their iTunes rentals? Any thoughts?
post #181 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I really don't think your points have much merit, at least in my opinion. I think your statement of clunky keyboard is devoid of actual experience, the new MacBook style keyboards are really quite cheap, they rattle around and the MBP keyboards are clearly more precise action, and have a better sculpted feel. There's hardly any shape at all to the new style (MacBook) keys.

i agree. I dont know why people keep saying the macbook keyboard is better. It clicks very loud when you press it as opposed to the mbp, it doesnt click as loud, which i think its better. The feel, i like the MBP better...
post #182 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Does this mean that Apple is not going to support Blu-ray? They surely would have added one by now. Would Blu-Ray cut into their iTunes rentals? Any thoughts?

maybe. cause HD is a huge file. it takes time to download.
post #183 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by desarc View Post

how many of you honestly like the "new" key design better than the one that's still included with the MBP?
i prefer the slightly concave keys far more.

the apple remote for 19 bucks. yeah, i used that thing ONCE when i first got my machine. now it's in a drawer somewhere. i'll sell it to you for 18 bucks if i can find it. the remote SHOULD have been designed to fit in the expresscard slot. it's probably the longest standing piece of design in the apple product line - it hasn't been updated since October 2005.

i support the MBP key (i like the macbook key but on the desktop keyboard, it doesnt fell sturdy. Maybe because i havent used it that much..
post #184 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by L255J View Post

I bought a Macbook for $1100 dollars Mid-2007. It had:
1 GB of Ram
120 GB Hard drive
2.16 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo processor
Dual-Layer Superdrive

Now, if you pay Apple $1100, they'll give you a Macbook with:
1 GB of Ram
120 GB Hard drive
2.1 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo processor
Combo drive

Wow. Lame_as_hell.

That isn't true. The MacBook released in Mid-2007 for $1,099 came with an 80GB HDD, ComboDrive, and a 2.0GHz "Merom" with 4MB L2 Cache and 667MHz FSB.
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post #185 of 424
The Macbook gets the new Keyboard ala the standard keyboard/bluetooth key layout, but the Macbook Pro doesn't?

Now having used these new keyboards for months I can't stomach the old ones on the laptops.

Sorry, but they should make the keyboard type an option.

As I said, one gripe, but a big one as you type all day.

Believe it or not, I won't buy a Macbook Pro for that very basis.
post #186 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by DayLight View Post

i know what you're getting at. true, the price is pretax in the states but not all states pay that tax, my dad just bought the MacBook Air from the states and he didn't have to pay those taxes so the price i see on the apple website is the price i pay.

second of all, yes, the dollar has been plummeting for a while and its WORTH right now is about half that of the British Pound. so 1 pound = 2 dollars. however, at the end of the day the value of my money = double that of dollar. so if i order from the state i'd be Paying less. now as a consumer, do you think it makes a difference for me whether the price in the UK includes tax and the one is the state doesn't ?

at the end of the day am paying less for the same device. and thats with me adding shipping + new power adapter. and the issue that i was complaining about to begin with WASN'T the price. i don't mind *alot* paying abit extra. but what annoyed me was the LOWER specs of the UK version. and that too might be a mistake.

so all good and dandy.

there is a difference between buying a US product in the us and bringing it back to europe and buying the US product in europe
post #187 of 424
I'm a bit confused. I believe the Penryn has a front side bus at 800mHz. Why are they shipping with 667mHz pc5300 ram? Wouldn't they benefit from pc6400 800mHz RAM?
post #188 of 424
Sorry about that. I don't remember paying that much...>_>
post #189 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by L255J View Post

I bought a Macbook for $1100 dollars Mid-2007. It had:
1 GB of Ram
120 GB Hard drive
2.16 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo processor
Dual-Layer Superdrive

Did you get a discount or something? The old model didn't have superdrive for $1099, did it? Something doesn't seem right here - is there a list of previous MB pricing online anywhere?

Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Does this mean that Apple is not going to support Blu-ray? They surely would have added one by now. Would Blu-Ray cut into their iTunes rentals? Any thoughts?

From what I've read, it sounds like there are still DRM issues to be worked out for movie playback. It's working in some cases on the PC side, but there are many PC owners with bluray drives who are unable to watch movies. I can't imagine apple releasing before those problems are worked out.
post #190 of 424
This thread is funny!

I can see the headlines in the not too distant future:

"Apple releases moon on stick: hardcore fans displeased; fall in share price"
post #191 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by emig647 View Post

$1999. Macbook Pro 15" 2.4GHz / 2GB / 200GB 5400RPM / 256MB Vram
$2499. Macbook Pro 15" 2.5GHz / 2GB / 250GB 5400RPM / 512MB Vram

Am I the only one that is going to bitch about a $500 difference between the 2 15" macbook pros? $500 for 256mb vram, 100mhz, and 50gb of harddrive? Are you kidding me?

Yeah, I'm working up to the same question (just trying to catch up on reading the boards!). One other difference, the 2.5 GHz option also has twice the processor cache (6 MB vs 3 MB). That should improve performance a bit more, but I don't know how much.
post #192 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

The Macbook gets the new Keyboard ala the standard keyboard/bluetooth key layout, but the Macbook Pro doesn't?

Comparing the two on the apple website, the layout looks the same on both. Have you looked at the new MBP keyboard layout, it is supposed to be updated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by L255J View Post

Sure, buddy, sure. And you bought one of those, too, didn't you?

Sorry, but your facts are wrong.

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...cbook_pro.html

2.0GHz 13-inch MacBook (white)
2.0GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
1GB memory
80GB hard drive
Intel GMA X3100 w/ 144MB of DDR2 SDRAM
Combo drive
$1,099.00


Maybe you got a discount (refurb, edu, etc), but unless you apply the same discount to the new model, it invalidates your comparison.
post #193 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by mzaslove View Post

Oops, I looked and you're right. I sit corrected.

No, you were right the first time. The standard 200 GB drive is 5400 rpm. The 7200 rpm drive is optional. And extra $100 on the lower end MBP and $50 on the mid-level.
post #194 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by L255J View Post

I bought a Macbook for $1100 dollars Mid-2007. It had:
1 GB of Ram
120 GB Hard drive
2.16 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo processor
Dual-Layer Superdrive

Now, if you pay Apple $1100, they'll give you a Macbook with:
1 GB of Ram
120 GB Hard drive
2.1 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo processor
Combo drive

Wow. Lame_as_hell.

I don't think so. The Macbook 2.16 as you configured above was released on May 15, 2007 and listed for $1,299.

The 2.16 GHz, 13-inch white MacBook, for a suggested retail price of $1,299 (US), includes:
\t▪\t13.3-inch glossy widescreen 1280 x 800 display;
\t▪\t2.16 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo processor;
\t▪\t667 MHz front-side bus;
\t▪\t1GB of 667 MHz DDR2 SDRAM, expandable to 2GB;
\t▪\t120GB Serial ATA hard drive running at 5400 rpm, with Sudden Motion Sensor;
\t▪\ta slot-load 8x SuperDrive with double-layer support (DVD+R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW) optical drive;
\t▪\tIntel Graphics Media Accelerator 950;
\t▪\tMini-DVI out (adapters for DVI, VGA and Composite/S-Video sold separately);
\t▪\tbuilt-in iSight video camera;
\t▪\tGigabit Ethernet port;
\t▪\tbuilt-in AirPort Extreme 802.11n wireless networking and Bluetooth 2.0+EDR;
\t▪\ttwo USB 2.0 ports and one FireWire 400 port;
\t▪\tone audio line in and one audio line out port, each supporting both optical digital and analog;
\t▪\tScrolling TrackPad;
\t▪\tthe infrared Apple Remote; and
\t▪\t60 Watt MagSafe Power Adapter.

Whereas today,…

The 2.1 GHz, 13-inch white MacBook, for a suggested retail price of $1,099 (US), includes:
\t▪\t13.3-inch glossy widescreen 1280 x 800 display;
\t▪\t2.1 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo processor with 3MB shared L2 cache;
\t▪\t800 MHz front-side bus;
\t▪\t1GB of 667 MHz DDR2 SDRAM, expandable to 4GB;
\t▪\t120GB Serial ATA hard drive running at 5400 rpm, with Sudden Motion Sensor;
\t▪\ta slot-load Combo (DVD-ROM/CD-RW) optical drive;
\t▪\tIntel Graphics Media Accelerator X3100;
\t▪\tMini-DVI out (adapters for DVI, VGA and Composite/S-Video sold separately);
\t▪\tbuilt-in iSight video camera;
\t▪\tGigabit Ethernet port;
\t▪\tbuilt-in AirPort Extreme 802.11n wireless networking and Bluetooth 2.0+EDR;
\t▪\ttwo USB 2.0 ports and one FireWire 400 port;
\t▪\tone audio line in and one audio line out port, each supporting both optical digital and analog;
\t▪\tScrolling trackpad; and
\t▪\t60 Watt MagSafe Power Adapter.

I think that it would be best that you apologize for your errors. Things like this only help propagate more faslehoods
post #195 of 424
As it's been stated the biggest problems with the current MBP enclosure is...

A) no magnetic latch
B) Port location (my MBP looks like an octopus on my desk)
C) Keyboard (I don't mind it that much)
D) Harddrive replacement

I think B and D are the biggest issues. If I could replace my HD without voiding the warranty I wouldn't mind the design. I've had my mbp apart a few times, it's not that big of a deal if you build computers, but for the average person I would assume it as a nightmare. Why can't apple just come up with a design that allows easier harddrive replacement????????????

 

 

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post #196 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by L255J View Post

Sure, buddy, sure. And you bought one of those, too, didn't you?

Your smarmy reply aside, how about a link to the 15-MAY-2007 AppleInsider article?
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...re_memory.html
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post #197 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by emig647 View Post

$1999. Macbook Pro 15" 2.4GHz / 2GB / 200GB 5400RPM / 256MB Vram
$2499. Macbook Pro 15" 2.5GHz / 2GB / 250GB 5400RPM / 512MB Vram

Am I the only one that is going to bitch about a $500 difference between the 2 15" macbook pros? $500 for 256mb vram, 100mhz, and 50gb of harddrive? Are you kidding me?

As said before, the $500 diff is simply an ego tax.
The lower config is perfectly adequate for this class device, and extra memory can be added much more cheaply 3rd party.
Don't see the need for 'bitching' as opposed to just making the more logical choice.

edit: the 'this class of device' statement is due to not carefully reading. This is about pro, which many could say needs to be top of line. Still, .1 GHz diff does seem like a silly reason to spend $500
post #198 of 424
Nothing there to deter me from buying my MacBook Air when I'm in Florida this July

MacBook Pro 15" | Intel Core2 Duo 2.66GHz | 320GB HDD | OS X v10.8
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MacBook Pro 15" | Intel Core2 Duo 2.66GHz | 320GB HDD | OS X v10.8
White iPad (3G) with Wi-Fi | 16GB | Engraved | Blue Polyurethane Smart Cover
White iPhone 5 | 64GB | On 3UK

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post #199 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobertoq View Post

Wow! There is an anti-glare option!! No more glossy display or has that always been there?

I bought my MBP in November '06 and ordered it with a matte finish.
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post #200 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

HD rentals only through AppleTV, the rest of the HD are just podcasts, and not all that many of them.

HD is pointless on a 17" screen.
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