Apple introduces Penryn-based MacBooks and MacBook Pros - Page 6

What? You mean this isn't the year 2015AD?! Dang it. I knew I should have calibrated the time-shift module before jumping. Wrecken, freshen, meshen.

YipYipYipee

Well, won't go too hard on you since I've expressed my disappointment at lack of touchpad on Macbook earlier in this thread.
But I doubt that you "have to spend" *any* money.
Are you completely without a computer at the moment? The fact that you're posting tells me the answer to that is 'no'.
The consensus seems to be that the device you want more will probably be out in 4-6 months. If you just can't wait, then I guess Apple does have you by the short hairs. But I truly doubt that that's the case.
Patience, grasshopper.

hmmm...
De-bundling the remote looks to me to be a good thing, not bad (both from a (trivial) stock POV and user POV.)
1) who needs a remote for a laptop anyway?
2) who needs ANOTHER remote at all?

Glad they dropped it.

I believe that's correct. HD playback requires (by license) that the video path is "secure" (ie, it can't be captured/recorded). Microsoft went draconian and put DRM throughout Vista to the point that the path from RAM to the video card can be locked down. Hopefully, Apple won't [need] to go so far because that could mean changes to the OS.

The HDMI connection on the AppleTV became HDCP (I think that's the right acronym) compliant with the Take 2.0 upgrade. Or at least it seems to get activated with rentals. I don't think you can implement HDCP on DVI (could be wrong), and that is what is needed for the player to handshake with the display/TV in order to establish a secure connection. So at a minimum, I think they'd have to start shipping computers with HDMI connections if you wanted to watch blu-ray on an external monitor. Who knows, the license to play blu-ray video may require that they implement HDCP even on the connection between the video card and the built-in display on laptops!

Apple hasn't become complacent, they have become to big for their own good. Trying to enter into so many markets and gaining market share while trying to maintain that consumer to producer image, just isn't working anymore. Look at the demands we are placing on them and I am guilty of the same, while at the same time they're trying to please coffee sipping yuppies with MacBook Air and Starbucks stores on iPhone. I read that analysis article, and I hope it reminds apple it was the actual Mac community (not iPod or iPhone) that kept them afloat while they were struggling. It might be the shot in the arm they need and then we might get all these frills.

Although I'm still left wondering a little with the case design: keyboard and mag latch I can understand, but what would you do with the case? Thinner? It's a pro machine, it's not gonna get much thinner. A different material? What dissipates heat better than aluminum? Hells yeah the bottom of those things get hot because it's emitting heat instead of keeping it internally. The curved design of the MBA? I wouldn't want that as I'm sure many other people wouldn't either. They put an iSight in the screen bezel for god sakes. That thing is tiny and does an amazing job. I'm curious and very open as to hear what you and other want. Maybe you'd convince me, but all I hear right now is "Give me case redesign." "Well what do you want?" "I don't know...give me case redesign."

You're confused because that's not how the frontside bus works.

FSB is quad data rate, so 800MHz is actually 4*200MHz
RAM is double data rate, 667MHz is actually 2*333MHz

333MHz is faster than 200MHz, so memory is faster than the FSB. The RAM, in other words, will be waiting for the processor occasionally.

As we each are entitled to our opinion, i'm rather disappointed with this.. I mean, yahh, I'm glad Apple did this update but I just wish it was more comparable to PC laptops. I just saw a nice laptop for $500 that was actually really nice with a 15.4 screen on it with a big hard drive, lots of ram and DVD writer on it. Why can't Apple get their prices lower and why do they not offer a SuperDrive as standard equipment now. The PC laptops offer it as standard in a $500 laptop. Anyway, I just wanted to rant, any update is a good thing as far as I'm concerned. I just want lower prices from Apple to stay competitive.

Specifications and usability are two very different things. For one thing, Sony can't run OS X.

I just checked the UK Apple site and the specs are the same as the US one (i.e. 256MB for the 2.4GHz configuration and 512MB for the 2.5 or 2.6GHz configuration).

Now, as to the U.S. Dollar vs Pound Sterling issue. That's been going on for years. And don't get me started on the cost of cars in the U.K. vs the Continent.

Also, don't forget the U.S. price does not include local sales tax. So, that sort of mitigates the price difference... kind of... erm, how's the Premiership going?

YipYipYipee

While HD may be pointless, those buying bluray disks to watch on their giant screen at home still want to be able to watch them on the computer as well (and not have to buy movies twice).

The biggest heat generation is going to come from the main CPU and the video GPU. I don't think RAM or VRAM generates much heat. Also, the top power drains are probably the CPU, the GPU, the hard drive, and the display (not necessarily in that order). I really don't think increasing the VRAM is going to make that much difference relative to those other things, assuming the VRAM is connected to the same GPU running at the same speed. I've doubled the RAM in my laptop with little or no impact on battery life. I assume increasing VRAM would behave similarly.

It's hilarious that people are getting pissed off about the remote no longer being included. I don't know about the rest of you, but personally I have a handful of the damn things at home and rarely use them. if you're already coughing up the big bucks for your MBP who gives a shit about another nineteen bucks.

Also it's great to see an apple fan/news site so filled with people who are constantly upset and whining about Apple's choices.

I'm also disappointed.

As I'm sure it's been already stated, this is the same design as the original aluminum PowerBook introduced nearly 5 years ago. I guess "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." But I think we expect more from Apple in terms of cutting edge industrial design and features. Even 5 years ago the case revision was merely evolutionary. We don't even have a magnetic latch yet, which is a pretty ho-hum feature improvement in itself. Show us something new, guys.

Penryn iMacs with 2 gig RAM across the board and no remote next Tuesday!

You can read their US filings, in there, they break down their sales & profits by region of the globe. The information isn't that detailed, such as all of Europe rather than any given country.

And think about it this way. Apple was giving away remotes with all computers except the mac pro and maybe the mini (not sure about that one). I'm sure they did some research into who was actually using them and realized it's better for them financially if they're not included and if someone wants one bad enough, they will pay for it.

I wouldn't buy a computer without it. They sure don't built build Macs like they used to.

Nah, they're going one step further. You've heards of bring your own monitor, keyboard, and mouse. Well, they're throwing in the display, but its bring your own keyboard, mouse, remote, cables, RAM, operating system, and software...and there's a $200 price increase Apple will innovate by being the first computer maker to ship all their computers in a barebones configuration.

does anyone know if the new macbook pros are available immediately in stock at apple stores yet? I'm gonna try and see if I can get a new MBP because my current one has some hardware issues and is about 16 days old. this is my second one this month because of hardware test errors. hopefully... im gonna try to get them to replace my current one since its still under warranty.

How do you decide what makes an update good or bad? I think the updates are very good. For the same price as the previous models you get more storage, the VRAM is doubled and that doesn't even include what is new like the Penryn processor (SSE4) and the Multi-Touch track pad.

How are the haters going to win their argument if you keeping bringing up facts and common sense?

Simple. I compare the update to the old model, and to the price/features of comparable PC machines.

Overall, I think the update is good, but considering you can get a PC laptop with a DVD burner for under $500, I consider the lack of superdrive in the base model bad.

How about the sony vaio ar series?

(https://www.sonystyle.co.uk:443/Sony...02BC29B74)/.do)

I dont know about the us but in the uk the top model costs the same as the 17inch mbp and comes with 500gb hard drive, 4gb ram, penryn processor and bluray burner. Oh and tv tuner and full hd lcd screen! i personaly much prefer osx and wouldn't mind paying premium for it but the fact is the mpb's aren't as pro as they once were!

You can also get those $500 notebooks with many more USB ports, a modem port, larger display, more keys on the keyboard, x-in-1 memory card reader, and a built-in S-Video and VGA out without the need for a dongle.

I guess it depends on the purchaser. I'm glad we have a choice and that yesterday's MB is cheaper today.

The MacBook Pro is iconic and easily recognizable in advertisements, movies or television shows. Indeed, the fact that it has endured as long as it has is a testament to its excellent design and aesthetics.

As you've mentioned, I think we need to all step back and appreciate what we are getting in this "refreshed" version of the MacBook Pro.

For example, the new Intel 'Penryn' processors are now more efficient (due to a larger cache) and include the SSE4 extensions, which when used with applications that can take advantage of it, significantly reduce the amount of time to render or transcode video (e.g. convert DV to MPEG-2 for DVD authoring use) for example.

Adding the multi-touch trackpad is very important. At least to me. Indeed, I use a trackpad only because I have to use it. It doesn't mean I like using it.

With multi-touch I can now "gesture" more easily than using a mouse. In fact, I may dispense with the mouse altogether, especially if Apple's new patent pending on more advanced gesture control comes to fruition.

It should be noted Intel will soon release their new mobile chipset called Centrino 2 (aka Montevina). This chipset is built using the same 45nm process as the new Intel Penryn CPUs. The upshot should be cooler operating temperatures and significantly longer battery life. Surely a good thing for the entire Apple laptop line, especially the MacBook Air.

Now, what I do find interesting is the resolution of all the displays are not higher. Indeed, there is an op-ed on the PC Magazine web site where Robert Strohmeyer is most upset about this apparent oversight:

"For people who like to keep more than one application window in view at a time, 1,440x900 is a paltry screen dimension. And 1,280x800 is practically unbearable. While I can certainly appreciate the reasons for sticking to a lower-res screen on the svelte MacBook Air, it seems downright absurd that neither of Apples two mainstream notebook lines offer display resolutions that a power user might call sufficient."

Hmm, methinks Mr. Strohmeyer doesn't know about (or has forgotten) Leopard's Spaces feature. Much more usable and viewable... says I a longtime Windows user!

[As a side-note, XP and Vista have available a Spaces equivalent called Microsoft Visual Desktop Manager, but it's not included as a standard feature in either OS. How strange...]

Who knows, perhaps Apple is saving a display update as part of the Centrino 2 refresh. In any case, I think it's a moot point on a 13" or 15" panel. 17" panel, maybe.

OK, if there is one criticism I have to level against Apple, it's the omission of the SuperDrive in the MacBook. Should be technically and cost feasible. If they omitted it so that they can promote product differentiation, bad move.

I'm satisfied with the refresh, although it would be nice to complete the set by having Centrino 2. But that's an Intel issue more than anything else.

Now, if you'll excuse me, time to go buy my new 15" MacBook Pro!

YipYipYipee

I think this is very possible. New iMacs should be released in the very near future.

The estimated weight is also 3.9 KG

Fine. OK, you iPhone hackers who've pretty much exploit all that was exploitable on that product, get to work on getting OS X to run on a Sony VAIO. Go on! Moveit, moveit, moveit!

YipYipYipee

lol true it is on the larger side but theres still the lighter fz series and even dells can be configured to ship with blueray drives! My point is that although I am a big apple fan I cant justify spending that much cash on one when I could have a much better spec pc at the same price! It seems like apple are playing catch up with this update and theres no good reason why it shouldn't have included a blueray option hdmi and the larger trackpad from the air, this is the pro after all!

...just wondering how many of you here actually need the power of the faster processors/extra ram/improved graphics memory etc etc?

Is it all about numbers & specs and having the latest, or is everyone here actually working their MBP until it's red hot running 32 channels in Logic with multiple plug-ins, batch processing 60 RAW images in CS3 and editing three hour epics in Final Cut Pro?!


just curious....

What about Firewire ports? Does it have optical audio output? Multitouch track pad? The display is bigger, but what about the quality of the display? What video card (or is it "integrated" video)? How about the quality of the rest of the components? What software does it include?

I wouldn't dispute that you can get a cheaper Windows PC. But pretty much every comparison I've ever read that made a true effort to compare similarly spec'd machines (not just processor speed, display size, and number of USB ports) have found that the prices are roughly equivalent. And let's not even get started on total cost of ownership vs initial purchase price!

Maybe you don't need Fireware, and that's OK. But that just means the problem with Macs isn't that they cost more than PCs. The problem is that Apple simply doesn't make the low-end computer that you want. If you don't want to pay for, or just can't afford, a Lexus, do you go to the Lexus dealer and complain that you can get a Chevy for 1/4 the price?

OK. Then wait for the MacBook Air refresh.

I expect the "MacBook Air 2" will include the Centrino 2 (aka Montevina) chipset, which should run cooler, longer and have a more powerful integrated Intel GPU, along with Penryn CPUs clocking up to 2.4GHz. Also, there may be more configurations available which may include double the memory (i.e. 2GB or 4GB of RAM, 80GB and 160GB hard drives or SSD storage).

Again, the above is speculation but seems like a logical roadmap.

YipYipYipee

If apple had dropped the price by 19$ so that people don't have to add to their collection of remotes, then that would be fine. But come on. the fracking thing costs like 50 cents to produce and they are selling it for 19$?

give me a break.

apple's prices have now reclaimed their 'way more than PCs' levels of like 5 years ago. it's a shame but true.

Apple is making more money per machine on this generation than before and not a cent of that price reduction is reflected in better specs or lower prices. instead they charge us 19$ for the fricking remote.

LAME.

plus, why not have BTO options with the biggest baddest HDs money can buy? Apple charges $1/gb for their HD upgrades. What a joke. the true cost of HD capacity is what? .30$ per GB? maybe less?

also, the speed increases since Core2Duos came out have been minor at best. yet more lameness. And what about making the MBP HD easier to swap? WTF?

I didn't need the speed bumps but I wanted Penryn for the additional battery life that it will supposedly yield.

Sucks I have to wait until next week to get my MBP.

A very important point about bundled software.

Unfortunately, many Windows based PCs come loaded with so much trial-ware, you can't see the forest from the trees! And it's TRIAL-WARE, which becomes useless in 30-90 days unless you buy it.

The iLife '08 suite is very usable software and comes free with the purchase of any new Apple computer or laptop. And for a measly $79 USD (in other countries your cost will vary), iWorks '08 is a very credible office suite. Especially Keynote, which runs rings around the latest version of Powerpoint.

YipYipYipee

Wow. This kind of sucks. I was hoping for a case redesign as well. Perhaps in 6 months. I do have to agree though, the MBP case is def starting to begin to appear dated. The MB case design is very nice and still relevant, doesn't need to change much. Perhaps MT & backlit keyboard would have been nice. The real loser here is the MBP though, because I know many of you were waiting for a case redesign to go along with the updates. Its sad that MBPs are the flagship portables of Apple & yet they don't have the cool innovative feature of the economy model (MB) or even the MBA such as the magnetic latch, new keyboard, etc...

At least they updated it somewhat.

Correct.
The big thing about HDMI is that it can detect if ANY segment of cable is non-HDMI. (i.e. component or DVI cable anywhere along the path) and could therefore be tapped into for copying (bypassing DRM.)
If that's detected, then HDCP can enable its 'downrez bit' and only pass through, say, 480p to the monitor.
The important thing to remember is that HDMI is not the same thing as HDCP. But it IS a protocol that (in addition to allowing audio transmission on the same cable) provides a method of enforcing HDCP.

I see your point and agree..........BUT...............

What I wouldn't have minded in getting, at least with MB, was the LED display (battery life) and Multi-touch track pad (very innovated)......but mind you I feel that all the macs should have these features across the board.

Also since Blue-Ray has won, they should have introduced this as well. As for speed etc....I can see that being more of an issue in the high end MBP.

I guess I'll just wait to buy a MB (really only want a 13inch mac) that comes with these features, its a shame too b/c I've been holding out for about a year now b/c of the LED back-light, now who knows how much longer for the Mulit-touch track pad....oh well first time Mac user still waiting.....

In my business, it's all about usability. And time is money. If I can have a portable system that can render a DV project to MPEG-2 for DVD authoring in significantly less time, I'm all for it.

YipYipYipee

Well, the fact that it comes with Vista rather than Leopard is a rather significant difference.

<voiceover>
Macbook pro: $2799.
Apple Remote: $19
Never having to use Vista?..... Priceless.
</voiceover>

I am so happy. The MacBook Pro will be my first Mac. My Gateway laptop has an 800 Mhz Intel Celeron processor and a screen that doesn't work (that is attached to a 17" CRT monitor). I was hoping for a redesign, but I am not going to wait anymore. If I were getting a PC, I would not wait for a redesign, so I will not do it here.

Now, the only question is this: Should I get the base model or the middle model?

It seems to all boil down to the video memory (256MB vs. 512MB)

I plan to keep the computer for 4-5 years. I will be doing basic applications. I plan to do use music notation software (Finale with the processor/memory hog Garritan Personal Orchestra). If I do video stuff, it will be basic iMovie kind of stuff. I do plan to play some games, but they will mostly be strategy games like Civilization, Roller Coster Tycoon, Age of Empires, etc. However, if I do decide to pick up a heavier game, I want it to work well. Do you think getting the middle model with 512 MB of video memory is worth it for me?

What would you buy in my situation.