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Apple introduces Penryn-based MacBooks and MacBook Pros - Page 9

post #321 of 424
I took in my macbook pro(2.2Ghz) to the apple store because of hardware test error with the logic board or sensor thing and they let me get the new macbook pro as a replacement swap. good thing i backed everything via TimeMachine. YAY, new, faster, and a bigger HD Macbook Pro. So i went from 2.2Ghz to 2.4Ghz, 128mb VRAM to 256mb VRAM, and 120GB HDD to 200GB HDD. Apple customer service is awesome.. Im nothing but smiles.
post #322 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronbo View Post

Ack!! They removed the Enter key??
I use Maya, and Maya makes a distinction between Enter and Return.
What do you do if you need to hit Enter and not Return?

Just in case there's anybody using Maya who cares, I went and took a look at the new MBP.

The "enter' key has indeed been replaced by "option". But if you hit fn-Return, you get an "Enter". So it's all good
post #323 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by photoeditor View Post

When is Apple going to make the hard drive in the MacBook Pro easily accessible?

When is Apple going to put an LED backlight on the MacBook?

I'm waiting.

That is all.

You want to buy one of each? Awesome.

Thing is, since people replace a hard drive maybe once in 3 years (for most people it's never), positioning it for easy removal isn't on the top priority list when there are many other design constraints like ventilation, thickness, EMI, etc.

Are you really serious that fast replacement of the hard drive is what's keeping you from buying a MBP? I don't think you're actually in the market anyway.

This is why those "customer surveys" mentioned by Mr H don't work - if you ask people what it would take to get them to switch, they will all say some silly thing like "OMG if it only had a Multi-Card Reader I would be all over it", but when it comes time to buy, you find out that was all hot air - they aren't buyers anyway.
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post #324 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by themachines04 View Post

Has anyone had their MBP shipped yet? I ordered mine yesterday morning and then last night I received an email saying my order had been shipped and I was really surprised it went through so quick. Later on that night, I read my email again and it turns out that the only thing that was shipped was the sleeve that I also ordered for it \

I don't know about shipping orders, but I did see them in an Apple store in person today.
post #325 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by lundy View Post

Thing is, since people replace a hard drive maybe once in 3 years (for most people it's never)

I upgraded the HDD in my MacBook to a 7200 rpm device, and since then have had to get at it several times as I've had two break on me (the original and its replacement, fingers crossed this one holds out), so the easy access has been a real boon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lundy View Post

positioning it for easy removal isn't on the top priority list when there are many other design constraints like ventilation, thickness, EMI, etc.

They manage it with the MacBook, and that's a smaller machine than the MacBook Pro.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lundy View Post

This is why those "customer surveys" mentioned by Mr H don't work

I don't recall mentioning any "customer surveys". In fact it was during the debate about the combo drive stupidity that you talked of Apple "having data". I then responded to point out that I didn't think so, because those being driven away by the combo drive stupidity weren't walking into an Apple Store in the first place (something which you later agreed with), so if they aren't coming to Apple in the first place, Apple can't possibly know how many are being driven away.
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post #326 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

They manage it with the MacBook, and that's a smaller machine than the MacBook Pro.

While it has a smaller screen to match the footprint, the MB is 9% thicker than the MBP, has a smaller battery to power it's smaller mobo, with less power and data intensive features, a slower CPU speed limit, and it lacks a dedicated GPU, ExpressCard slot and many ports that the MBP has.

It's not a good comparison.

Furthermore, we see a lot of great photoshops on this site and others. Some are very creative and sexy but most still have many underlying issues that that would make them less than ideal for a production model, and I'm thinking only of the aesthetics. Apple has a much harder situation as it has to consider all the internals and the physics involved for powering, cooling, repairing and manufacturing their machines. I think they do a fantastic job and its why we don't see many photoshopped devices from other OEMs.
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post #327 of 424
I realize there's a lot of frustration from people who were looking for a completely redesigned mbp but it seems kind of ridiculous from a business perspective since they just released the macbook air - no sane company would make a move like that

From my perspective, I was really excited for this upgrade because I was planning on buying a mbp this weekend when I heard there might be an upgrade tuesday. By waiting, I got a better processor, hard drive, touch pad, and graphics card for the same price I would have paid this weekend. Doesn't seem like a raw deal to me. Also, I'm upgrading from a 3 year old 17'' Dell Inspiron so there's definitely no way for me to go wrong haha. I guess I understand Mac enthusiasts being frustrated but since I've never had one I'm perfectly content to have the same old look since it's better than any PC. I'll be using for engineering stuff for the next 3 years anyways so I'm not exactly concerned with aesthetics.

Can't wait for it to ship!!
post #328 of 424
Dude, you'll love it !

I've been on a Mac for a long time but still have to work on pc's every now and then - the freak'n malware and anti virus and phishing and all that sh!t ... dealing with it, uggghhh.

<and don't someone chime in with the - "you don't know what you're doing" routine.>
BS - it's an ongoing battle on Windows.
post #329 of 424
Good day

All right, after getting over my minor disappointment about the lack of a new design on the MacBook Pro, I realized it was a pretty decent update. Got what I was looking for the most: A larger std. hard drive! Plus the new track pad More graphics memory is just a bonus. Great.

Anyway, I intend to buy the base model of the MBP, but I might just pay a little extra and get the 200 GB 7200 RPM HD. This is when my question comes in: Does it produce significantly more heat than the 5400 RPM disk? Remember a friend whose Lenovo laptop kept the fan running constantly after he installed a 7200 RPM disk... And I definitely don't want that. Any other drawbacks? Battery usage?

Thanks i advance.

Rasmus (who's about to get his first Mac soon! Yay!!!)
post #330 of 424
The current crop of 200GB drives have similar to lower power consumption than the 250GB 5400 RPM drives.
post #331 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post

The current crop of 200GB drives have similar to lower power consumption than the 250GB 5400 RPM drives.

Cool. Didn't think that would be the big issue either, if any. But what about the heat? There must be a few MBP owners with 7200 disks in here
post #332 of 424
I'm willing to bet that; Thru an update, Apple could make our SantaRosa MacBook Pro's into the multi-touch track pads. These appear to be the same track pads and they already notice when there are 2 fingers on the pad. I hope they can throw out that update or I can find the hack for it.
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post #333 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by Footloose301 View Post

I'm willing to bet that; Thru an update, Apple could make our SantaRosa MacBook Pro's into the multi-touch track pads. These appear to be the same track pads and they already notice when there are 2 fingers on the pad. I hope they can throw out that update or I can find the hack for it.

I had the same theory, but then my brother told me the chip it uses is different...
post #334 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by Footloose301 View Post

I'm willing to bet that; Thru an update, Apple could make our SantaRosa MacBook Pro's into the multi-touch track pads. These appear to be the same track pads and they already notice when there are 2 fingers on the pad. I hope they can throw out that update or I can find the hack for it.

They are the same trackpads, but do they use different controller chips. The new MBPs use the Broadcom BCM5974 Multitouch controller chip that is found in the MBA, iPhone and iPod Touch.
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post #335 of 424
Very nice line-up... But honestly, what is it with Apple and memory?

Firstly - "Up to 2GB Standard" - if it's "up to" 2GB, then 2GB isn't standard. Standard is standard, if some MacBooks come with 1GB then it isn't standard...

Secondly - Crucial do a 1GB to 4GB upgrade for MacBook for £66 inc VAT (UK). Apple's price for the same upgrade from 1GB? £300. Plus you don't get an extra 1GB to sell on eBay. What planet are they on? Is their memory made from pure platinum?
post #336 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by jowie74 View Post

Very nice line-up... But honestly, what is it with Apple and memory?

Firstly - "Up to 2GB Standard" - if it's "up to" 2GB, then 2GB isn't standard. Standard is standard, if some MacBooks come with 1GB then it isn't standard...

Secondly - Crucial do a 1GB to 4GB upgrade for MacBook for £66 inc VAT (UK). Apple's price for the same upgrade from 1GB? £300. Plus you don't get an extra 1GB to sell on eBay. What planet are they on? Is their memory made from pure platinum?

1) One build comes with 1GB as the standard build and the other two builds comes with 2GB as standard.

2) It is pricey, but it's not a big deal since you can get it from other sources. Sony sells their 4GB upgrade from 2GB for USD $300. Not as much as Apple, but certainly excessively priced compared 3rd-party vendors.
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post #337 of 424
If you were to buy 2 x 2 GB (that makes 4 GB :P) for a MBP, which ones are there to go for? Any DDR2-667 or?
post #338 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasmoose View Post

If you were to buy 2 x 2 GB (that makes 4 GB :P) for a MBP, which ones are there to go for? Any DDR2-667 or?

Use Newegg or OWC. The have the best pricey, a great return policy if by some rare occurrence the RAM is faulty and an easy guide to find teh right RAM for your machine.
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post #339 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Use Newegg or OWC. The have the best pricey, a great return policy if by some rare occurrence the RAM is faulty and an easy guide to find teh right RAM for your machine.

Will this work for a RAM upgrade?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820233062
post #340 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edouble View Post

Will this work for a RAM upgrade?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820233062

Yep.

OWC is a little cheaper, though.
http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Other.../53IM2DDR4GBK/
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post #341 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

1) One build comes with 1GB as the standard build and the other two builds comes with 2GB as standard.

still this is a little marketing artistic licence on Apple's part. But I guess everyone does that stuff.

Quote:
2) It is pricey, but it's not a big deal since you can get it from other sources. Sony sells their 4GB upgrade from 2GB for USD $300. Not as much as Apple, but certainly excessively priced compared 3rd-party vendors.

You're right it isn't a big deal. It would just make a bit more sense if Apple sold the RAM at a decent price so we didn't have to mess around with a brand new machine
post #342 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by jowie74 View Post

still this is a little marketing artistic licence on Apple's part. But I guess everyone does that stuff.

I don't think so; it's quote clear to me. I'll ask my parents next time I talk to them. I like to use them as technical litmus paper.


Quote:
You're right it isn't a big deal. It would just make a bit more sense if Apple sold the RAM at a decent price so we didn't have to mess around with a brand new machine

it seems the OEMs are really pushing us to use the 3rd-parties for RAM with these outrageous prices. If they really wanted the business of the extra RAM installation, which is really easy, they would probably make a more money from having it within $50 of the 3rd-party price. (That is baseless speculation on my part)
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post #343 of 424
on the other note

previous generation MacBook Pro all are on sale under clearance item from apple.com

$1699 for MBP thats a deal ...

Nov '09 | iMac 21.5" C2D 3.06 Ghz | Intel 330 240GB SSD | ATI

Sep '12| Toshiba 14" 1366 x 768! | i5 3rd Gen 6GB| Intel x25-m 120GB SSD | Win 7|  Viewsonic VX2255wmb 22" LCD
iPhone 4S| iPad 2 wifi

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Nov '09 | iMac 21.5" C2D 3.06 Ghz | Intel 330 240GB SSD | ATI

Sep '12| Toshiba 14" 1366 x 768! | i5 3rd Gen 6GB| Intel x25-m 120GB SSD | Win 7|  Viewsonic VX2255wmb 22" LCD
iPhone 4S| iPad 2 wifi

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post #344 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by shanmugam View Post

on the other note

previous generation MacBook Pro all are on sale under clearance item from apple.com

$1699 for MBP thats a deal ...

And the 2.2GHz/120GB refurbs are $1449 for those that don't mind going that route.

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post #345 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by shanmugam View Post

on the other note

previous generation MacBook Pro all are on sale under clearance item from apple.com

$1699 for MBP thats a deal ...

I bought my 15" MacBook Pro on March 28, 2006.

Nothing since then has inspired an upgrade.

I will not be a part of Apple's marketing plan to leave early adopters in the dust. No Windows user or IS department will spring for these "upgrades", nor will they switch from Windows. Apple needs a better plan, and they haven't figured it out.

They need Windows users to switch (upgrade?)...not us.

So long Apple. When I see a real reason to upgrade, it will be to Windows. You blow your opportunities again and again and again.

DT
post #346 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by techvoyager View Post

Question: I just bought a Macbook over the weekend, what is Apple's policy if I return this computer in exchange for the newly bumped specs?

I know the bump in speed, memory and space isn't that significant for the $1299 machine, but I'm just curious. I've already ordered my 4gb memory, but the added hard drive space would be nice. Going from 2.2ghz to 2.4 doesn't make that much difference, right?

You might have to pay a restocking fee, but they should take it back within 14 days, or whatever it says on the apple receipt from an Apple store. You bought it at an Apple store, right?
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post #347 of 424
You are kidding aren't you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dtabbutt@mac.com View Post

I bought my 15" MacBook Pro on March 28, 2006.

Nothing since then has inspired an upgrade.

I will not be a part of Apple's marketing plan to leave early adopters in the dust. No Windows user or IS department will spring for these "upgrades", nor will they switch from Windows. Apple needs a better plan, and they haven't figured it out.

They need Windows users to switch (upgrade?)...not us.

So long Apple. When I see a real reason to upgrade, it will be to Windows. You blow your opportunities again and again and again.

DT
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post #348 of 424
Quote:
I bought my 15" MacBook Pro on March 28, 2006.

Nothing since then has inspired an upgrade.

LOL

You're waiting for the 8-core Xeon, right? With 32 USB ports and 3 SuperDrives?
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post #349 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by dtabbutt@mac.com View Post

I bought my 15" MacBook Pro on March 28, 2006.

Nothing since then has inspired an upgrade.

Why the F would you think you should need to upgrade within two years anyway? That's very unusual.

Quote:
I will not be a part of Apple's marketing plan to leave early adopters in the dust. No Windows user or IS department will spring for these "upgrades", nor will they switch from Windows. Apple needs a better plan, and they haven't figured it out.

They need Windows users to switch (upgrade?)...not us.

So long Apple. When I see a real reason to upgrade, it will be to Windows. You blow your opportunities again and again and again.

What the F exactly are you looking for? Excuses to blow more money? I call BS. I'd be skeptical if you said your IS department was willing to replace your machine more often than once every three years if it really didn't have to. I know that executives might get a new toy every six months, but they're executives and for some reason, they need to be pandered to, else they succumb to a temper tantrum. Some workstation-class systems in engineering might be replaced once a year if the next system is 25% faster than the last because for some cases, every little bit of performance counts. Nearly everyone else in a typical corporation gets a new system every three years or less often. Home users might replace once every five to seven years.

Your statements look to be contradictory. You see nothing that's worth upgrading to, but then you complain that Apple leaves early adopters in the dust, which doesn't appear to be your case.
post #350 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post

I believe that's correct. HD playback requires (by license) that the video path is "secure" (ie, it can't be captured/recorded). Microsoft went draconian and put DRM throughout Vista to the point that the path from RAM to the video card can be locked down. Hopefully, Apple won't [need] to go so far because that could mean changes to the OS.

The HDMI connection on the AppleTV became HDCP (I think that's the right acronym) compliant with the Take 2.0 upgrade. Or at least it seems to get activated with rentals. I don't think you can implement HDCP on DVI (could be wrong), and that is what is needed for the player to handshake with the display/TV in order to establish a secure connection. So at a minimum, I think they'd have to start shipping computers with HDMI connections if you wanted to watch blu-ray on an external monitor. Who knows, the license to play blu-ray video may require that they implement HDCP even on the connection between the video card and the built-in display on laptops!

I've just ordered my first Mac ever, a MBP with the hi-res screen in order to be able to edit self-recorded HD video more easily. I was hoping on hooking up an external Blu-Ray writer to backup my edited HD videos on Blu-Ray disks. Will that still be possible? Is only DRM playback restricted, or will I have trouble viewing my self-created disks as well?

Thanks in advance!
post #351 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolfb View Post

I've just ordered my first Mac ever, a MBP with the hi-res screen in order to be able to edit HD video more easily. I was hoping on hooking up an external Blu-Ray writer to backup my edited HD videos on Blu-Ray disks. Will that still be possible? Is only DRM playback restricted, or will I have trouble viewing my self-created disks as well?

Thanks in advance!

Your disks will be fine. It's the HDCP, not DRM that will prevent you from playing store bought HD optical movie titles with your drive.

As long as you encode it as MPEG2, H.264 or VC1 the media should playback fine in any HD optical player.
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post #352 of 424
A review from AnandTech worth reading.
http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=3246
edit:

"The Mobile GM45/47 chipsets are an integral part of Montevina and will feature the new GMA X4500HD graphics core. The X4500HD will add full hardware H.264 decode acceleration, so Apple could begin shipping MacBook Pros with Blu-ray drives after the Montevina upgrade without them being a futile addition. With full hardware H.264 decode acceleration your CPU would be somewhere in the 0 - 10% range of utilization while watching a high definition movie, allowing you to watch a 1080p movie while on battery power. The new graphics core will also add integrated HDMI and DisplayPort support."

That makes me think w won't see new Cinema Displays until Montenia and the new MBPs 'and' MBs will no longer have Dual-link DVI and Mini-DVI ports but a Display Port port. Could this be way Apple has delayed the Cinema Displays for so long? It certainly seems feasible as to why they haven't added Blu-ray as a handicapped option and help Apple move into thinner, tapered notebooks, like the MBA. (speculation)
http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/03/d...port-hdcp-too/
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post #353 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

A review from AnandTech worth reading.

http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=3246
edit:[INDENT]"The Mobile GM45/47 chipsets are an integral part of Montevina and will feature the new GMA X4500HD graphics core. The X4500HD will add full hardware H.264 decode acceleration

That's useful info, but AnandTech have got their wires crossed, which is unusual for them. The MacBook Pro doesn't use Intel's integrated graphics, it uses dedicated graphics from Nvidia, which have incorporated hardware H.264 decoding for a few generations now. Indeed, that's how the AppleTV decodes H.264 yet has such a measly processor - it's the mobile Nvidia GPU in the AppleTV that does the bulk of the heavy-lifting.
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post #354 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

That's useful info, but AnandTech have got their wires crossed, which is a unusual for them. The MacBook Pro doesn't use Intel's integrated graphics, it uses dedicated graphics from Nvidia, which have incorporated hardware H.264 decoding for a few generations now. Indeed, that's how the AppleTV decodes H.264 yet has such a measly processor - it's the mobile Nvidia GPU in the AppleTV that does the bulk of the heavy-lifting.

What am I missing? I don't see where he said the MBP has integrated graphics. The text you quote was Shimpi stating that H.264 decoding acceleration will be an integral part of the Montevina chipset.

He did state that both MB and MBPs have the multi-touch trackpads. Unles he thinking of the less-complex dual-touch trackpad, I think that is incorrect.
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post #355 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

What am I missing? I don't see where he said the MBP has integrated graphics.

I think he's talking about this inference:
Quote:
The X4500HD will add full hardware H.264 decode acceleration, so Apple could begin shipping MacBook Pros with Blu-ray drives after the Montevina upgrade without them being a futile addition.

The fact of the matter is they are already fast enough to cope with HD content and have been for some time, thanks to the dedicated graphics hardware.
post #356 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

What am I missing? I don't see where he said the MBP has integrated graphics.

The X4500HD is an integrated graphics chip (the successor to the current X3100 used in the MacBook). The MacBook Pro will not have it. But it doesn't matter as the MacBook Pro is already plenty powerful enough to decode MPEG-2, High-Profile H.264 and VC-1. It's just that currently, OS X only decodes one of those (MPEG-2).

In order to support playing of Blu-ray discs, Apple will have to implement High-Profile H.264 and VC-1 decoding, and ground-up anti-copy mechanisms in both the hardware and the operating system.
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post #357 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by jowie74 View Post

I think he's talking about this inference:

The fact of the matter is they are already fast enough to cope with HD content and have been for some time, thanks to the dedicated graphics hardware.

Sure, they can cope with it just fine, but at a cost. Decodign built onto the Montevina chip will make decoding a HD movie will keep the GPU from taxing, will hardly tax the CPU, and this will same a good amount of battery tim and free up these components for other services.
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post #358 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

The X4500HD is an integrated graphics chip (the successor to the current X3100 used in the MacBook). The MacBook Pro will not have it. But it doesn't matter as the MacBook Pro is already plenty powerful enough to decode MPEG-2, High-Profile H.264 and VC-1. It's just that currently, OS X only decodes one of those (MPEG-2).

In order to support playing of Blu-ray discs, Apple will have to implement High-Profile H.264 and VC-1 decoding, and ground-up anti-copy mechanisms in both the hardware and the operating system.

Gotcha.
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post #359 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Why the F would you think you should need to upgrade within two years anyway? That's very unusual.



What the F exactly are you looking for? Excuses to blow more money? I call BS. I'd be skeptical if you said your IS department was willing to replace your machine more often than once every three years if it really didn't have to. I know that executives might get a new toy every six months, but they're executives and for some reason, they need to be pandered to, else they succumb to a temper tantrum. Some workstation-class systems in engineering might be replaced once a year if the next system is 25% faster than the last because for some cases, every little bit of performance counts. Nearly everyone else in a typical corporation gets a new system every three years or less often. Home users might replace once every five to seven years.

Your statements look to be contradictory. You see nothing that's worth upgrading to, but then you complain that Apple leaves early adopters in the dust, which doesn't appear to be your case.

What I'm trying to say is that I wouldn't spend $2,000+ for one of these new MacBook Pro laptops. There isn't that much value added compared to earlier MBP's. Therefore, where's the market? People who've never bought a MBP? Windows users? IS departments? I believe these are extremely limited markets, since the original MBP is only about two years old. Anyone who needed one already has one (this is being typed on one). Apple did not distinguish itself well enough with these upgrades to convince any existing MBP owner to upgrade, or others to switch (from Windows). Their only hope is new users. But don't look at me...just look at their stock (AAPL).

As far as early adopters being left behind, I would spend a few hundred bucks on my MBP for a bigger hard drive (not offered by Apple), a SuperDrive (not offered by Apple), or an updated processor (not offered by Apple). In other words, Apple doesn't offer a path to upgrade existing similar machines...they only offer to replace them. Even Dell offers upgrade paths, and I have used them in the past.

That's my point.

Cheers,

DT

P.S. Please don't hint at vulgarities in your posts. Civil communication is all that's required.
post #360 of 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by dtabbutt@mac.com View Post

As far as early adopters being left behind, I would spend a few hundred bucks on my MBP for a bigger hard drive (not offered by Apple), a SuperDrive (not offered by Apple), or an updated processor (not offered by Apple). In other words, Apple doesn't offer a path to upgrade existing similar machines...they only offer to replace them. Even Dell offers upgrade paths, and I have used them in the past.

That's my point.

The resale value of Macs over other OEM PCs is much on your favour. Instead of upgrading the optical drive, HDD, and processor for significant cost, which will still use an LCD with many hours logged, possibly lower res display, battery with less than stellar capacity, many slower MoBo components, much worse GPU, less L2 Cache and FSB at a lower clock-speed and more power hungry CPU... just not buy a shiny new machine with a warranty and sell your old one. The prices are a wash when you consider all plus sides to a new machine.

There is only so much you can do with older architecture. Migration Assistant makes easy work of it. Even the MBA holds against the 1st Gen. MBP.
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