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Difference between Obama and McCain - Page 4

post #121 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellowship View Post

You mean

McCain: Economic agnostic
Obama: Concerned about the economy and outsourcing of US jobs.

I think that is what you were going to say...

Fellows

I dunno Fellowship, I don't think there's any way to win on this one. McCain will simply step into the same cancerous tax-and-spend policy that Bush and the Congress are following. It's just not sustainable.

Obama seems to want to help the common man, but -- for one example -- what he is saying about NAFTA is naive at best. Whoever his economist advisors are, they'd never dream of standing in front of an economics class and repeat what he's saying.

I think he'll win in November, and that might be the best thing for the debate -- that grain of sand in the proverbial oyster. At least the press wouldn't be all over him like a cheap suit, I think we could all use a break from the Great Satan coverage of the last 8 years. That and maybe the "conservatives" might have to rethink themselves.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #122 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellowship View Post

As if there is something wrong with being a creationist.

Ha! Hassan i Sabbah would like to turn back the clock -- have us raving the praises of Spinoza and Leibniz. (if you are willing to take bets as to whether he has actually sat down and thought it through)

Lame.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #123 of 162
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmz View Post

I dunno Fellowship, I don't think there's any way to win on this one. McCain will simply step into the same cancerous tax-and-spend policy that Bush and the Congress are following. It's just not sustainable.

Obama seems to want to help the common man, but -- for one example -- what he is saying about NAFTA is naive at best. Whoever his economist advisors are, they'd never dream of standing in front of an economics class and repeat what he's saying.

I think he'll win in November, and that might be the best thing for the debate -- that grain of sand in the proverbial oyster. At least the press wouldn't be all over him like a cheap suit, I think we could all use a break from the Great Satan coverage of the last 8 years. That and maybe the "conservatives" might have to rethink themselves.


I think Obama is only citing rhetoric RE:NAFTA when it resonates with those in Ohio etc. who have seen jobs evaporate in their community. It is my take considering what he has said that he wants to tweak some the details in our trade agreements so that there is not wrong sided incentives like tax windfalls for those who relocate their business outside of the US etc.

I pretty much agree with the rest of what you said...

I think the republicans really need to take a breather and gather themselves once again. The republicans need to once again realize what it is that makes them a majority party and stick to it instead of spending like drunken sailers and eroding civil liberties on Americans all in the name of "Nanny state" sounding "mommy and daddy government will protect you even if we bankrupt you" rhetoric They have betrayed the trust of their base, they have not acted conservative in any way because just because you deliver on tax cuts does not give you a license to spend worse than the most liberal liberals..

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
post #124 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmz View Post

I dunno Fellowship, I don't think there's any way to win on this one. McCain will simply step into the same cancerous tax-and-spend policy that Bush and the Congress are following. It's just not sustainable.

Obama seems to want to help the common man, but -- for one example -- what he is saying about NAFTA is naive at best. Whoever his economist advisors are, they'd never dream of standing in front of an economics class and repeat what he's saying.

I think he'll win in November, and that might be the best thing for the debate -- that grain of sand in the proverbial oyster. At least the press wouldn't be all over him like a cheap suit, I think we could all use a break from the Great Satan coverage of the last 8 years. That and maybe the "conservatives" might have to rethink themselves.

If you are afflicted with cancer, it will always be an issue of interest to you. And the idea of taking a break from thinking about it after 8 years of fighting may be a relief, but that doesn't mean the problem has been taken care of.

I don't understand the seeming assumption by many that we will automatically have a quick fix to this problem or that this is an elective condition.

The conservatives are not inventing this. And if we continue thinking it is something we don't have to concern ourselves with we will be giving the bad guys an advantage they will use against us.

And McCain will win or lose the election based on his ability to accurately define the threat of Islamism.

It shouldn't be hard to do.
post #125 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo2 View Post

If you are afflicted with cancer, it will always be an issue of interest to you. And the idea of taking a break from thinking about it after 8 years of fighting may be a relief, but that doesn't mean the problem has been taken care of.

I don't understand the seeming assumption by many that we will automatically have a quick fix to this problem or that this is an elective condition.

The conservatives are not inventing this. And if we continue thinking it is something we don't have to concern ourselves with we will be giving the bad guys an advantage they will use against us.

And McCain will win or lose the election based on his ability to accurately define the threat of Islamism.

It shouldn't be hard to do.

I don't think McCain will be able to sell the Islamic thing -- I think Bush made it clear that the U.S. is willing to cut its nose off to spite its face with regards to making attacks on America counterproductive.

Besides, American avarice is going to get us long before the terrorists do. Americans are filling both their minds and bodies with garbage -- and literally looking for a "free" magic pill to cure it all. I don't think the economy can absorb another Enron, or Mortgage fiasco. The transaction costs of runaway greed will ruin us all -- and there's nothing any politician can do to stop it.

Neither candidate has the courage to tell the American people that.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #126 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo2 View Post

The 85% who may not support violent Jihad WOULD, however, support having a separate system of Islamic justice to adjudicate particularly Islamic issues.

That would mean the perfectly law abiding and peaceful 85% would help create the wedge needed to create parallel societies within the USA just as there seem to be in the UK, where it is illegal for Brits to fly their own national flags in Islamic neighborhoods for fear of upsetting the Muslims.

Now. Screw THAT.

Ah. You touched on a subject that's very much in agreement with me. I do not feel that any culture should try to enforce their own laws or beliefs into another. Laws and beliefs that are contrary to the others or may cause harm to another. That's just common sense. Yet here in America we've had Muslim immigrants that do abide by our laws and refrain from practicing their more extreme forms of laws and practices. Maybe because that they see within our culture, we have tried (not to successfully, but the majority have) to go beyond the dogmas and superstitions of the past.

What do you say? 'Nice jihad. Like the dogma. Way to go with the bigotry and the hate?

Quote:
"...my freedom is more important than your faith. Much, much more important. And besides, I have this natural aversion to being bullied around by bigoted misogynistic ignoramuses. And I say that with all due respect."

This bloke rules. But take careful attention as to whom he believes are the catalyst to this trend (hint: Saudi Arabia) (another hint: Our allies for freedom and against terrorism?).

More hints:







Another hint:

All the suspected hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, Lebanon or Egypt.

Who's our enemy now?
post #127 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellowship View Post

As if there is something wrong with being a creationist.

Fellows


Ah.. The logical fallacy here is that Hassan, and indeed myself and countless others, don't have a problem with Creationist because they are Creationists (though it certainly doesn't help their cause that they have chosen to base their entire world-view on something that confronts physical reality). You see, the reason why there is something wrong with being a creationist is the same reason why there is something wrong with being a fundamentalist Muslim or a dyed-in-the-wool Zionist or... When you check your brain at the door as any of these fundamentalist movements require, you automatically lose whatever advantage our species has over, say, red ants... In other words, there IS something wrong with being a creationist -- it is the explicit requirement that you DENY your biological given ability to critically think about the world around you.
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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post #128 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardeeharhar View Post

Ah.. The logical fallacy here is that Hassan, and indeed myself and countless others, don't have a problem with Creationist because they are Creationists (though it certainly doesn't help their cause that they have chosen to base their entire world-view on something that confronts physical reality). You see, the reason why there is something wrong with being a creationist is the same reason why there is something wrong with being a fundamentalist Muslim or a dyed-in-the-wool Zionist or... When you check your brain at the door as any of these fundamentalist movements require, you automatically lose whatever advantage our species has over, say, red ants... In other words, there IS something wrong with being a creationist -- it is the explicit requirement that you DENY your biological given ability to critically think about the world around you.

Not at all -- there's very little accurate in that statement.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #129 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmz View Post

Not at all -- there's very little accurate in that statement.

So you don't believe that Genesis is the literal truth?
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
Reply
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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post #130 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardeeharhar View Post

So you don't believe that Genesis is the literal truth?

Do you believe that Kant's noumenal world exists?

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #131 of 162
Quote:

As if there is something wrong with being a creationist.

There is something wrong with being ignorant.

But in most cases the ignorant person is not the one who is at fault for being ignorant but (s)he is simply a victim of the failure of society to educate its people.

The best that we can do is try to educate those who are not fortunate enough to have been taught how to reason and judge appropriately.

Creationism is an example of how the United States public school system has failed at teaching its people the basics of scientific thought and enquiry.
post #132 of 162
With regard to the main topic.

Obama can get an erection, McCain can't.
post #133 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by soulcrusher View Post

With regard to the main topic.

Obama can get an erection, McCain can't.

Most of us employ the Internet not to seek the best information, but rather to select information that confirms our prejudices. - Nicholas D. Kristof
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Most of us employ the Internet not to seek the best information, but rather to select information that confirms our prejudices. - Nicholas D. Kristof
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post #134 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmz View Post

I don't think McCain will be able to sell the Islamic thing -- I think Bush made it clear that the U.S. is willing to cut its nose off to spite its face with regards to making attacks on America counterproductive.

Just as a different strategy was used to turn the tide in Iraq, a different strategy needs to be used to explain the reality of Islamism. You probably discounted the possibility of progress in Iraq just as you doubt the possibility of successfully selling "the Islamic thing" to the American public. And let's be clear, the thing to be sold should be the threat of Islamism. Not Islam.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmz View Post

Besides, American avarice is going to get us long before the terrorists do. Americans are filling both their minds and bodies with garbage -- and literally looking for a "free" magic pill to cure it all. I don't think the economy can absorb another Enron, or Mortgage fiasco. The transaction costs of runaway greed will ruin us all -- and there's nothing any politician can do to stop it.

Neither candidate has the courage to tell the American people that.

Hey, I know what I'll do. I will do an imitation of most of the anti-America, anti-Bush, anti-Iraq war posters by speaking from what I want to believe, not from what I know and I'll throw a teeny bit of truth in there to make it sound good.

The economy isn't that bad. Enron was years ago, Ken Lay is dead. It can't happen again. And when this administration tried to give poor folks a chance to own their own homes they weren't able to figure out how to keep themselves from getting into trouble. See what happens when you try to treat people with respect?

And all you are doing is fear mongering.
post #135 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by @_@ Artman View Post

Ah. You touched on a subject that's very much in agreement with me. I do not feel that any culture should try to enforce their own laws or beliefs into another. Laws and beliefs that are contrary to the others or may cause harm to another. That's just common sense. Yet here in America we've had Muslim immigrants that do abide by our laws and refrain from practicing their more extreme forms of laws and practices. Maybe because that they see within our culture, we have tried (not to successfully, but the majority have) to go beyond the dogmas and superstitions of the past.

What do you say? 'Nice jihad. Like the dogma. Way to go with the bigotry and the hate?



This bloke rules. But take careful attention as to whom he believes are the catalyst to this trend (hint: Saudi Arabia) (another hint: Our allies for freedom and against terrorism?).

More hints:







Another hint:

All the suspected hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, Lebanon or Egypt.

Who's our enemy now?

Quit trying to manipulate us.

We know you are smarter than that.

The "suspected hijackers" were as interested in overturning the Saudi government as they are in overturning our government.

Quote:
Al Qaeda Organization in the Arabian Peninsula

Al-Qaeda Organization in the Arabian Peninsula leader Abdulaziz Al-Muqrin issued calls for the Saudi royal family to be overthrown. Conquering Saudi Arabia would be the first step towards establishing a Caliphate that would liberate the third holy place [Jerusalem] and unite all the Muslims of the world. The nightmare scenario for the West in one in which Saudi oil production (10% of world output) is taken out by terrorist attacks or by regime change. The Saudi ruling family is stuck between two contradictory policies: appeasement of puritanical Islam and alliance with America.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...ida-arabia.htm
post #136 of 162
Sorry for warping the direction of the thread with a cheap shot at dmz. Let's keep the thread on topic.

Seriously.

OK. I can tell you, from personal experience, that John McCain is perfectly capable of achieving and maintaining a very proud erection, and I think that addabox will back me up on this gobbets of aerated lube and beetroot juice.
post #137 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellowship View Post

As if there is something wrong with being a creationist.

Of course there is nothing wrong with being a creationist, but I wouldn't want my daughter to marry one.
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
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45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
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post #138 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo2 View Post

Quit trying to manipulate us. We know you are smarter than that.

The "suspected hijackers" were as interested in overturning the Saudi government as they are in overturning our government.



The Bush ruling family is stuck between two contradictory policies: appeasement of Israeli occupation and dependence to Saudi Arabian oil.

Quote:
The perilous ramifications of the September 11 attacks on the United States are only now beginning to unfold. They will undoubtedly be felt for generations to come. This is one of many sad conclusions readers will draw from Craig Unger's exceptional book House of Bush House of Saud: The Secret Relationship Between the World's Two Most Powerful Dynasties. As Unger claims in this incisive study, the seeds for the "Age of Terrorism" and September 11 were planted nearly 30 years ago in what, at the time, appeared to be savvy business transactions that subsequently translated into political currency and the union between the Saudi royal family and the extended political family of George H. W. Bush.

On the surface, the claim may appear to be politically driven, but as Unger (a respected investigative journalist and editor) probes--with scores of documents and sources--the political tenor of the U.S. over the last 30 years, the Iran-Iraq War, the war in Afghanistan, the birth of Al Qaeda, the dubious connection between members of the Saudi Royal family and the exportation of terror, and the personal fortunes amassed by the Bush family from companies such as Harken Energy and the Carlyle Group, he exposes the "brilliantly hidden agendas and purposefully murky corporate relationships" between these astonishingly powerful families.

His evidence is persuasive and reveals a devastating story of Orwellian proportions, replete with political deception, shifting allegiances, and lethal global consequences. Unger begins his book with the remarkable story of the repatriation of 140 Saudis directly following the September 11 attacks. He ends where Richard A. Clarke begins, questioning the efficacy of the war in Iraq in the battle against terrorism. We are unquestionably facing a global security crisis unlike any before. President Bush insists that we will prevail, yet as Unger so effectively concludes, "Never before has an American president been so closely tied to a foreign power that harbors and supports our country's mortal enemies."

Manipulation indeed.
post #139 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by @_@ Artman View Post



The Bush ruling family is stuck between two contradictory policies: appeasement of Israeli occupation and dependence to Saudi Arabian oil.



Manipulation indeed.

Sounds like a case of Shiite envy to me.

Oh, and with an endorsement by Michael Moore you know it's got to be a [sarcasm] great book. [/sarcasm]
post #140 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo2 View Post

Just as a different strategy was used to turn the tide in Iraq, a different strategy needs to be used to explain the reality of Islamism. You probably discounted the possibility of progress in Iraq just as you doubt the possibility of successfully selling "the Islamic thing" to the American public. And let's be clear, the thing to be sold should be the threat of Islamism. Not Islam.



Hey, I know what I'll do. I will do an imitation of most of the anti-America, anti-Bush, anti-Iraq war posters by speaking from what I want to believe, not from what I know and I'll throw a teeny bit of truth in there to make it sound good.

The economy isn't that bad. Enron was years ago, Ken Lay is dead. It can't happen again. And when this administration tried to give poor folks a chance to own their own homes they weren't able to figure out how to keep themselves from getting into trouble. See what happens when you try to treat people with respect?

And all you are doing is fear mongering.

Not at all, the current State Department has proven conclusively that it does not understand the Muslim ethos. It is playing politics against principle -- for the nth time -- it's LBJ versus Ho Chi Minh all over again.

(The only difference between Clinton and Bush is that Clinton knew a tar baby when he saw one.)

As to Enron not happening agian, yes they threw up Sarbanes-Oxley, but that didn't stop the entire financial market apparatus -- from S&P ratings down to the prospective homeowner -- from cratering the related markets. There is no end to the permutations of how greed can hobble a free market -- and there's nothing any political entity can do to stop it.


Quote:
Men are qualified for civil liberty in exact proportion to their disposition to put moral chains on their own appetites. Society cannot exist unless a controlling power upon will and appetite be placed somewhere, and the less of it there is within, the more there is without. It is ordained in the eternal constitution of things that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters.
-Edmund Burke.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #141 of 162
Thread Starter 
Obama: no anger problem
McCain: ANGER!!!!! ANGER!!!! HOW DARE YOU ASK ME QUESTIONS YOU LITTLE JERK!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2D_mhqDRBY

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFIXwSmNzUg

This guy is too pissed off and self-rightious to be President. Too pissed off to be in control of our military let alone anything else.

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
post #142 of 162
I don't think he went off the handle there, but he was definitely working to keep that legendary temper in check.
proud resident of a failed state
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proud resident of a failed state
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post #143 of 162
post #144 of 162
my friends
proud resident of a failed state
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proud resident of a failed state
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post #145 of 162
The best thing for the middle class is actually a repeal of AMT legislation and ss/medicare reform. The american middle class doesn't really benefit from government programs, nor does anyone in the skilled working class: the wages for skilled labor are good, and many of these people do independent contract work as well, often subject to heavy taxes. The only class that the government helps is the lower class.

The point is that, in our present economy with a large middle class and a largely skilled working class, Obama's "new new deal" would not help many americans. Obama is also unlikely to repeal the AMT. I'm not saying that McCain would, either, but to say that Obama's platform benefits the middle class is just plain wrong. The types of services he wants to nationalize do nothing except remove choice and create new bureaucracies, both of which are harmful to the middle class as we know it.
Cat: the other white meat
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post #146 of 162
The difference between these two is that one has a good chance at the presidency this time and one doesn't.

A hint : that one doesn't have white hair!
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #147 of 162
I can't wait until November -- I'll get to decide between "tax and spend" and "borrow and spend."

Yipppee!

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #148 of 162
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmz View Post

I can't wait until November -- I'll get to decide between "tax and spend" and "borrow and spend."

Yipppee!

That needs to be a bumper sticker. It is right on the money.

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
post #149 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellowship View Post

That needs to be a bumper sticker. It is right on the money.

Fellows

Well at least tax and spend doesn't lead to bankruptcy. Sounds like a better plan to me.

Even though the fact is that Democrats spend less.
post #150 of 162
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Well at least tax and spend doesn't lead to bankruptcy. Sounds like a better plan to me.

Even though the fact is that Democrats spend less.

tonton I would rather leave my son and future generations a legacy of leaders who did not shove the tax burdens to them.

I will not be voting for Republicans this fall.

The republicans in power or looking to be in a position of power don't get it.

They have failed in a huge way...

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
post #151 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Even though the fact is that Democrats spend less.

Unfortunately, there is no way to gauge what the government budget would be in 2008 had Gore or Kerry been elected. It's no mystery that Bush-the-younger is not a fiscal conservative, but it's hard to fathom that an administration pushing the expansion of government-run services would also be able to reduce government spending. If you think cuts in defense spending will make up the difference, that's unfortunately too impractical for the foreseeable future. Two-thirds of the world relies on the fact that the US military tends to intervene: Serbia is a better example than the present Iraq conflict, because it shows how incapable the EU is of solving its own problems. Even if by some act of God our allies decided to ramp up their militaries and be vigilant, it would be many years before the US could reduce its deployment in these countries. Even if we withdraw from Iraq, there's still a lot of very-necessary defense budget.

The main point I continue to raise, however, is that it's not the middle class at all that stands to benefit from the plans that the Democratic candidates are harboring. The middle class do not generally need universal healthcare (or very much at all) from the federal government. The lower classes -- not including the skilled working class -- are the beneficiaries here. This may be just as well by your reasoning, and I'm not trying to tell you that you're opinion is a bad one. It's just not the middle class that stand to benefit.

I am not going to vote for him unless I am really blown away in the next few months, but I can't say that McCain appears to be more fiscally irresponsible than Bush is. Frankly, I'm not sure if it's possible to be more fiscally irresponsible than Bush is. One thing for sure is that the tax refunds are going to go away, and McCain will have to make cut-backs if he intends to hold to his promise of "no new taxes."

Anyway, I've thought about it, and if the democrats have their way and introduce new federal programs, I'm moving to central Europe. If I'm going to be paying a lot in taxes in the USA, I may as well pay a lot in taxes somewhere else, get free defense courtesy of the USA, and live in a place that's square km for square km more interesting that the USA is.
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post #152 of 162
John McCain on The Daily Show (Aug 17, 2007):

Quote:
"Well, lemme just tell ya, I'd close Guantanamo Bay and I'd declare we'd never torture another person in American custody." "Life is not 24"

Gee, what happened? It's downright inhuman to expect a near-doddering old man to be consistent or to hold him to this word. After 65 you respond more to your bladder than to being sensible. Flip? Meet flop...

McCain and Clinton have had more reinventions than Madonna. \
post #153 of 162
Rod Parsley / McCain

Looks like we are in for a war against all of Islam.
Hurray!
post #154 of 162
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamac View Post

Rod Parsley / McCain

Looks like we are in for a war against all of Islam.
Hurray!

Another reason this Christian will not vote for McWar.

There is a kind of madness in these nutjobs who preach war and destruction. They are not Christian in my book.

But McCain just loves these folks it seems.... They love war just like McCain does.

Here is a response to the original linked story on the page of the linked original story which I agree with:

Quote:
Parsley is not a christian! He is just using christianity as a front for his extremist ideas. A christian is suppose to represent Christ in the truest sense of the word. They have to love their enemies. Can you imagine Christ speaking the way Parsley does? I can't. Whatever happen to compassion, peace, love, gentleness, kindness, and humbleness? This guy lacks humility and behaves as though his words are God's words. Wrong! He appears to a hate monger and there is no room in christianity for such individuals. Parsley does not speak for christian. He need the conversion he tells other about.
Posted by:Eustace Sheppard

Somebody needs to educate this "experienced" McCain guy about what real Christianity is as opposed to "looney toons" who speak as Christians but who act and preach in any way BUT Christian.

Just my opinion... I mean if he is so experienced and all.... I am a little surprised he does not know this basic fact.

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
post #155 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellowship View Post

Another reason this Christian will not vote for McWar.

There is a kind of madness in these nutjobs who preach war and destruction. They are not Christian in my book.

But McCain just loves these folks it seems.... They love war just like McCain does.

Here is a response to the original linked story on the page of the linked original story which I agree with:



Somebody needs to educate this "experienced" McCain guy about what real Christianity is as opposed to "looney toons" who speak as Christians but who act and preach in any way BUT Christian.

Just my opinion... I mean if he is so experienced and all.... I am a little surprised he does not know this basic fact.

Fellows

Oddly,
Jesus became known (in the bible story) during a time of occupation. Indeed, war is the main reason the bible was composed. It contains messages to the oppressed and plenty of fear.
A new prophet might be coming out of Iraq. People are drawn to the ones that preach against the oppressors and promise them liberty and a better future. We now call them terrorists.
Al Sadr, Jesus and the likes owe their popularity to imperialist invaders. Without brutal slaughter of the innocent, rape and plundering todays religions would not exist.
post #156 of 162
[CENTER]

Quote:
"I do not reject your Christ, I love your Christ. It is just that so many of you Christians are so unlike your Christ."

[/CENTER]
post #157 of 162
Thread Starter 
Artman,

I agree that there are those who call themselves Christians who make true Christians look really really bad.

Quote:
Ephesians 6:12

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

See that last part.... "against spiritual wickedness in high places"

Sometimes this is in circles that call themselves Christians.

But don't confuse this wickedness with those of us who do not twist and pervert the teachings of Jesus.

If you have a pastor of a church and the style and substance of his messages don't dovetail with the following RUN LIKE HELL and find a real church.

Quote:
Galations 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Quote:
1 Corinthians 13 4-7, 13:

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. 13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
post #158 of 162
Very good points Fellows, but I had heard from a co-worker that on ABC's Morning Show today they showed Obama's pastor preaching at his church...

Obama's Pastor: God Damn America, U.S. to Blame for 9/11

Quote:
An ABC News review of dozens of Rev. Wright's sermons, offered for sale by the church, found repeated denunciations of the U.S. based on what he described as his reading of the Gospels and the treatment of black Americans.

"The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing 'God Bless America.' No, no, no, God damn America, that's in the Bible for killing innocent people," he said in a 2003 sermon. "God damn America for treating our citizens as less than human. God damn America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme."

In addition to damning America, he told his congregation on the Sunday after Sept. 11, 2001 that the United States had brought on al Qaeda's attacks because of its own terrorism.

"We bombed Hiroshima, we bombed Nagasaki, and we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon, and we never batted an eye," Rev. Wright said in a sermon on Sept. 16, 2001.

"We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant because the stuff we have done overseas is now brought right back to our own front yards. America's chickens are coming home to roost," he told his congregation.

Meanwhile, John McCain has received endorsements from Televangelist John Hagee, the founder of Christians United for Israel* and the senior pastor of Cornerstone Church in San Antonio, Texas.

Quote:
“Most readers will be shocked by the clear record of history linking Adolf Hitler and the Roman Catholic Church in a conspiracy to exterminate the Jews.” - Jerusalem Countdown (revised edition, 2007, p. 114)

"Anyone who makes the life of Jewish people difficult or grievous, as did the Pharaoh, as did Hitler, will be cursed by God." - keynote address to AIPAC, (March 12, 2007)

"You will either offend the world and please God, or please the world and offend God." -Faith under Fire broadcast, (September 12, 2005)

"What is the point of having free speech if you have nothing to say?" - "How Free Is Freedom?" (July 2, 2006) [1]

"Jesus did not come to the Earth to start 285 squabbling denominations fighting over the Bible. How like the devil to divide Christians over the Bible." - "How Free Is Freedom?" (July 2, 2006) [2]

"If you live your life and don't confess your sins to God Almighty through the authority of Christ and His blood, I'm going to say this very plainly, you're going straight to hell with a nonstop ticket." October, 2006[3]

"All hurricanes are acts of God because God controls the heavens. I believe that New Orleans had a level of sin that was offensive to God and they were recipients of the judgment of God for that." [29].

"Why would you want to be politically correct when you can be right?" -The Revelation Church broadcast, (February 2007)

"The most important thing to the Christian community is not the environment but evangelism." "The Fish Gate" 9/2/07

"Christians don't steal or lie, they don't get divorced or have abortions. If the Ten Commandments were followed by everyone we would be able to fire half the police force and in six months the prisons would be all half empty." "The Fish Gate" 9/2/07

*Rapture Ready: The Christians United for Israel Tour

and Televangelist Rod Parsley...

McCain's Spiritual Guide: Destroy Islam

Quote:
Senator John McCain hailed as a spiritual adviser an Ohio megachurch pastor who has called upon Christians to wage a "war" against the "false religion" of Islam with the aim of destroying it.

...

The leader of a 12,000-member congregation, Parsley has written several books outlining his fundamentalist religious outlook, including the 2005 Silent No More. In this work, Parsley decries the "spiritual desperation" of the United States, and he blasts away at the usual suspects: activist judges, civil libertarians who advocate the separation of church and state, the homosexual "culture" ("homosexuals are anything but happy and carefree"), the "abortion industry," and the crass and profane entertainment industry. And Parsley targets another profound threat to the United States: the religion of Islam.

In a chapter titled "Islam: The Deception of Allah," Parsley warns there is a "war between Islam and Christian civilization." He continues:

Quote:
I cannot tell you how important it is that we understand the true nature of Islam, that we see it for what it really is. In fact, I will tell you this: I do not believe our country can truly fulfill its divine purpose until we understand our historical conflict with Islam. I know that this statement sounds extreme, but I do not shrink from its implications. The fact is that America was founded, in part, with the intention of seeing this false religion destroyed, and I believe September 11, 2001, was a generational call to arms that we can no longer ignore.

Parsley is not shy about his desire to obliterate Islam. In Silent No More, he notes—approvingly—that Christopher Columbus shared the same goal: "It was to defeat Islam, among other dreams, that Christopher Columbus sailed to the New World in 1492…Columbus dreamed of defeating the armies of Islam with the armies of Europe made mighty by the wealth of the New World. It was this dream that, in part, began America." He urges his readers to realize that a confrontation between Christianity and Islam is unavoidable: "We find now we have no choice. The time has come." And he has bad news: "We may already be losing the battle. As I scan the world, I find that Islam is responsible for more pain, more bloodshed, and more devastation than nearly any other force on earth at this moment."

I notice something...neither Hagee or Parsley have been reported on the MSM (correct me if I'm wrong, I don't watch much MSM), but it seems Wright has been attacked on almost all of them, including Fox News.

Why hasn't the MSM focused on especially these two either? Certainly not because Obama is ahead and leading his party, McCain WON his party nomination. So why isn't the MSM railing him on his endorsements to these nut-jobs?
post #159 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellowship View Post

But don't confuse this wickedness with those of us who do not twist and pervert the teachings of Jesus.

Just a piece of advice ... If you want to make a case about Jesus this or Jesus that, don't quote Paul's letters, quote Jesus (or, at least, recordings of such). One thing that's always upset me is the line, "what would Jesus do?" For one thing, blind compassion does not appear to be his way, despite that it's what people who use that loaded question expect. For a second thing, judging other people's actions on the basis of their perceived righteousness is one thing we know Jesus does not endorse (many examples). Saying that any given christian is misinterpreting his faith is a tenuous position. We are better suited to judge other people's opinions and actions humanist, secular terms, and that extent should be especially sufficient for judging principals of a government that is not tied to a religion.
Cat: the other white meat
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Cat: the other white meat
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post #160 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellowship View Post

This thread is for giving examples of the differences between Obama and McCain.


Obama: Respectful of the needs of the middle class over special interests.
McCain: Does not pay much attention to the economy.


Obama: Did not vote for this war in Iraq.
McCain: Why not 10,000 more years of the same killing, family disruption and bankrupting power of this war?

Your turn...

Fellows

Obama didn't even vote on the war at that time. He has only been able to vote as a Jr. Senator in the last two years. He has voted to support the war so how do you know how he would have voted? If he has voted to support the war financially then he probably would have gone along with the rest of his cronies and voted for this war had he been able to.
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