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Apple holds big plans for 'iPhone University' on college campuses

post #1 of 40
Thread Starter 
Two weeks before the iPhone went on sale last June, Apple Inc. flew representatives from five universities -- including four of the nation's top-tier schools -- out to its Cupertino campus to cement deals for a new educational learning initiative dubbed 'iPhone University.'

It was the first of several baby steps towards a much larger goal of helping to reestablish the company's brand in the educational sector and instate the then fledgeling touch-screen handset as a staple of higher learning for years to come.

In addition to participating delegates from such prestigious universities as Harvard, MIT, Stanford, and Yale, were those from a little-known school by the name of Abilene Christian University (ACU), situated about two and a half hours west of Dallas/Fort Worth and comprised of a student body of roughly 5000.

The concepts discussed at the gathering were similar to those that exist with today's iTunes University programs where students can download to their iPods or computers lectures and associated materials to bolster their education. But unlike the primarily software-driven iTunes effort, "iPhone U" would let participating students download class presentations directly to their handsets over WiFi rather than require a transfer from a host computer.

For the past six months, the five schools have had the opportunity to serve as anchors for the pilot program, according to those familiar with the matter. Apple is said to have provided iPhones and iPod touches for the pilot under a loaner agreement, while also helping the universities to more closely meld their campus networks to their existing iTunes University services, which reportedly serve as the backbone of iPhone U.

On Tuesday, the initiative bore its first fruits, with ACU leading the charge by announcing that come this fall, all incoming freshmen would be provided with either an iPhone or iPod touch as part of a new learning experience called "Connected."

"At ACU -- the first university in the nation to provide these cutting-edge media devices to its incoming class -- freshmen will use the iPhones or iPod Touches to receive homework alerts, answer in-class surveys and quizzes, get directions to their professors offices, and check their meal and account balances," the university said in a statement.

In addition to those functions, ACU said it has already developed more than 15 other useful web applications for use on the Apple devices as part of its vision to "Connect" every student, faculty, and staff member. In a subsequent posting to its mobile learning website, the school offered a demonstration video portraying fictional, yet conceivable day-in-the-life account that highlights some of the potential benefits of its ideal mobile wireless environment.

ACU, according to those familiar with Apple's plans for iPhone U, is destine to become just one of dozens of universities that will eventually gain aid from iPhone maker in deploying similar services on their campuses. In addition to the first five pilot cases, the company is said to hold considerable list of additional schools that have made proposals to join a second, and much broader phase of the iPhone U initiative set to begin shortly, if it has not already.

Interestingly, while Apple is said to have invited representatives from each of the first five schools to its home base last Spring, its decision to try out the iPhone with higher education wasn't entirely deliberate. The Cupertino-based company reportedly scheduled the first meetings in response to proposals from the schools themselves just after the iPhone's January announcement, suggesting that the strategy was more of a reaction to the advent of the game-changing device.
post #2 of 40
Why does it seem as though Apple is very quickly turning into Microsoft?
post #3 of 40
This is great!

So, maybe it is time for Apple to focus on getting 802.1X authentication on the phones. If you are at a University like mine who uses PEAP authentication for campus wide wireless (many use this), then you still are unable to sign onto that network.
post #4 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by freethinker View Post

Why does it seem as though Apple is very quickly turning into Microsoft?

Why do you ask that? Microsoft focuses on business, Apple focuses on people.

This is actually quite brilliant, and is a perfect use for any iPhone-like device. University campuses are perfect places to leverage the technology.
post #5 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Yohe View Post

This is great!

So, maybe it is time for Apple to focus on getting 802.1X authentication on the phones. If you are at a University like mine who uses PEAP authentication for campus wide wireless (many use this), then you still are unable to sign onto that network.

You beat me to this comment.
post #6 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by freethinker View Post

Why does it seem as though Apple is very quickly turning into Microsoft?

You should probably wait a post or 2 before joining in on the knee-jerk Apple bashing.
post #7 of 40
The GPS should help students find good hiding places the next time a nerd with a gun starts shooting up the campus.
post #8 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolfactor View Post

Why do you ask that? Microsoft focuses on business, Apple focuses on people.

This is actually quite brilliant, and is a perfect use for any iPhone-like device. University campuses are perfect places to leverage the technology.


Your premise is unsettling. Apple is a major corporation that uses slave labor like conditions in China to produce it's technology. How do you allow for or purport that Apple itself is people centric? Maybe people centric for White, higher income (and children thereof) Western males? It makes me uneasy when I see a corporate hegemony anywhere and especially in Academia. That is not to say that Microsoft is any better. It is to say though that corporations are profit driven entities and none should be given a free pass nor be immune from criticism.
post #9 of 40
I'm in college and I have an iPhone. It seems like an alright idea, but how many schools DO have the endowments large enough to pay not only for iPhones/iPod touches for all of their students but also for video cameras/audio recording hardware to video/audio tape their lectures. I've only ever had one teacher to videotape his lectures, and no one watches them afterwards anyways. I would love to go to lecture from my bed and all, but we haven't even come far enough with the IPhone to get on the network!
post #10 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by freethinker View Post

Your premise is unsettling. Apple is a major corporation that uses slave labor like conditions in China to produce it's technology. How do you allow for or purport that Apple itself is people centric? Maybe people centric for White, higher income (and children thereof) Western males? It makes me uneasy when I see a corporate hegemony anywhere and especially in Academia. That is not to say that Microsoft is any better. It is to say though that corporations are profit driven entities and none should be given a free pass or immune from criticism.

Free pass to what?

I don't know if you noticed but when the corporate world is doing bad the whole economy is doing bad. Who benefits from that? Maybe we should take your approach in the educational world. Everyone moves at the pace of the slowest student. No one moves ahead of anyone else. All equally bad. Maybe that's a better world...

Nothing is ever going to be fair. I'm not saying I support corporation taking advantage of poor countries and bad labor conditions but present an alternative instead. What if no production at all was done in China to produce products you could afford (I guess you're using some of these products since you're on this forum...). Would the conditions be better in China with no money at all flowing into the country... I think you're comment is a bit naive and idealistic.

Communism is also a nice thought...as long as it stays that way...a thought.

/Mikael
post #11 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilco View Post

The GPS should help students find good hiding places the next time a nerd with a gun starts shooting up the campus.

Totally inappropriate.
post #12 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by freethinker View Post

Your premise is unsettling. Apple is a major corporation that uses slave labor like conditions in China to produce it's technology. How do you allow for or purport that Apple itself is people centric? Maybe people centric for White, higher income (and children thereof) Western males? It makes me uneasy when I see a corporate hegemony anywhere and especially in Academia. That is not to say that Microsoft is any better. It is to say though that corporations are profit driven entities and none should be given a free pass nor be immune from criticism.

um, not to be nitpicky, but is Apple targeting females in a negative context? Judging from your post, they are explicitly out to help white males and their offspring. How does that work? From what you said, I would agree that they may be out to screw the chinese (of course, since their china wages are in line with the local economy, I'm not clear on the problem there...), but I'm not sure who else they're screwing.

could you please clarify your statements? If Apple is in fact acting in an unethical manner, then as a stockholder and customer, I would be very interested in hearing real details with citation of appropriate sources, not random bashing.

although random bashing is fun.
post #13 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Interestingly, while Apple is said to have invited representatives from each of the first five schools to its home base last Spring, its decision to try out the iPhone with higher education wasn't entirely deliberate. The Cupertino-based company reportedly scheduled the first meetings in response to proposals from the schools themselves just after the iPhone's January announcement, suggesting that the strategy was more of a reaction to the advent of the game-changing device.

Sorry Kasper, I just can't get seem to past the purpose of the last statement.

In particular, what did you mean by, "… its decision to try out the iPhone with higher education wasn't entirely deliberate?" Do you mean that it wasn't done consciously and intentionally, or without careful consideration?

What did you mean by, and how did you come to the conclusion that, "The Cupertino-based company reportedly scheduled the first meetings in response to proposals from the schools themselves just after the iPhone's January announcement, suggesting that the strategy was more of a reaction to the advent of the game-changing device?"

I find your concluding paragraph seems to imply that there is something nefarious in nature by this strategy.

If you were just trying to say that this initiative came about in response to requests from university to discuss some of the implications that they have identified by the advent of this newly introduced technology, then why not just say so.

I personally am pleased that if this strategy was in response to customers' calls and not just out of the geniuses of the marketing department, as it does help to contradict Apples' often maligned character of not listening to its customers.
post #14 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by freethinker View Post

Your premise is unsettling. Apple is a major corporation that uses slave labor like conditions in China to produce it's technology. How do you allow for or purport that Apple itself is people centric? Maybe people centric for White, higher income (and children thereof) Western males? It makes me uneasy when I see a corporate hegemony anywhere and especially in Academia. That is not to say that Microsoft is any better. It is to say though that corporations are profit driven entities and none should be given a free pass nor be immune from criticism.

I'll just assume, then that you are accessing this message board from a device not created by a large corporation. Perhaps you built it yourself, from indigenous twigs and berries.
post #15 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by freethinker View Post

Your premise is unsettling. Apple is a major corporation that uses slave labor like conditions in China to produce it's technology. How do you allow for or purport that Apple itself is people centric? Maybe people centric for White, higher income (and children thereof) Western males? It makes me uneasy when I see a corporate hegemony anywhere and especially in Academia. That is not to say that Microsoft is any better. It is to say though that corporations are profit driven entities and none should be given a free pass nor be immune from criticism.

Did someone just buy you a Noam Chomsky book for your birthday or something?
I haven't heard this much dogma packed into one phrase since the last Berkeley City Council meeting.
Take a breath dude.
post #16 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

Sorry Kasper, I just can't get seem to past the purpose of the last statement.
I find your concluding paragraph seems to imply that there is something nefarious in nature by this strategy.

I don't think he's implying anything nefarious by Apple at all. It's okay, I think he agrees with you and is trying to avoid accusations from people sensitive to Apple acting like a greedy corporate monster. He's pointing out that Apple hasn't sought out to be a big brother presence on the universities, the universities approached Apple.
post #17 of 40
Is this service service somehow tied to the iPhone? Seems to any PDA/laptop/cell phone that meets the min requirements should be able to connect and access these services. I don't see why you would need an iPhone/iPod specifically.
post #18 of 40
Forget class docs and lecture recordings via your phone. Payment transactions via mobile phones is where there's a ton of money to be skimmed --not only on campus, but nearby at retailers, bars, etc. Already happening in test situations on certain campuses. University of Whomever partners with a bank to provide students with a free iPhone and student $$$ account management & transactions via the phone and UW gets a cut of the fees for providing the captive audience.

gc
post #19 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by freethinker View Post

Your premise is unsettling. Apple is a major corporation that uses slave labor like conditions in China to produce it's technology. How do you allow for or purport that Apple itself is people centric? Maybe people centric for White, higher income (and children thereof) Western males? It makes me uneasy when I see a corporate hegemony anywhere and especially in Academia. That is not to say that Microsoft is any better. It is to say though that corporations are profit driven entities and none should be given a free pass nor be immune from criticism.

How much alcohol have you had this morning?

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply
post #20 of 40
Just a bit of clarification... Apple is still "Cupertino-based", right?

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply
post #21 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by freethinker View Post

Your premise is unsettling. Apple is a major corporation that uses slave labor like conditions in China to produce it's technology. How do you allow for or purport that Apple itself is people centric? Maybe people centric for White, higher income (and children thereof) Western males? It makes me uneasy when I see a corporate hegemony anywhere and especially in Academia. That is not to say that Microsoft is any better. It is to say though that corporations are profit driven entities and none should be given a free pass nor be immune from criticism.


Your first post made it seem like you were making the classic (maybe clichéd) comparison of two companies that have had fundamentally different approaches to creating and marketing technology. But apparently it was an angsty critique of capitalism. Technology can be people driven in the sense that it does a good job of filling a need (real or perceived) that its user has regardless of how the supply chain is managed. But please let us know the steps you are taking to cleanse your life of products made in China. I am sure you'll be a beacon of enlightenment. Thanks for posting!
15.4" 2.33 GHz MacBook Pro
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post #22 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by webfrasse View Post

Communism is also a nice thought...as long as it stays that way...a thought.

All this cutesy phrase does is show how little you know about China, and how much less you know about "communism."

Stick to debating whether Apple is merely awesome, or totally awesome!
post #23 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by markoh View Post

Is this service service somehow tied to the iPhone? Seems to any PDA/laptop/cell phone that meets the min requirements should be able to connect and access these services. I don't see why you would need an iPhone/iPod specifically.

In addition to people preceptions about the brand and the iPod's existing user base, I think the advantage is not in the phone but the infrastructure to handle losts of small transactions apple already has in place with iTunes.
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80 Gig Black Ipod
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15.4" 2.33 GHz MacBook Pro
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post #24 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilco View Post

All this cutesy phrase does is show how little you know about China, and how much less you know about "communism."

Stick to debating whether Apple is merely awesome, or totally awesome!

Give me one example of a well working implementation of communism...anywhere on this planet. One that isn't corrupt. Show me one and I'll fold..

/Mikael
post #25 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by webfrasse View Post

Give me one example of a well working implementation of communism...anywhere on this planet. One that isn't corrupt. Show me one and I'll fold..

/Mikael

One might ask the same of Capitalism.
If you want to really get chills, Check out Naomi Klein's 'Shock Doctrine'.

Neither of the fringes have a lot to brag about.
post #26 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by freethinker View Post

Your premise is unsettling. Apple is a major corporation that uses slave labor like conditions in China to produce it's technology. How do you allow for or purport that Apple itself is people centric? Maybe people centric for White, higher income (and children thereof) Western males? It makes me uneasy when I see a corporate hegemony anywhere and especially in Academia. That is not to say that Microsoft is any better. It is to say though that corporations are profit driven entities and none should be given a free pass nor be immune from criticism.

As markoh points out above, this use of technology does not require hardware and software
from any particular vendor. Describing Apple's trial program as hegemony is way
over-dramatic. If you want a more appropriate target for your malaise, consider the
corporate domination of funding research projects in "academia", and all its
implications for freethinking.
post #27 of 40
I'm very surprised that posters to AI don't know about Apple's corporate policies toward labor practices in China. They are very strict in most of the things that Freethinker accuses them of in his comment (assuming he's male).

Just last year, Apple sent their representatives to China to investigate abuses at factories that make Apple products after a complaint was made. Check out Apple's corporate site to see their polices. Apple demands decent wages and good working condition for Chinese workers. If manufacturers don't agree and bide by the polices, they don't get the contract.

So, FREETHINKER's comment above isn't well thought out or knowledgeable.
post #28 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

One might ask the same of Capitalism.
If you want to really get chills, Check out Naomi Klein's 'Shock Doctrine'.

Neither of the fringes have a lot to brag about.

I'm not promoting any system, they all have flaws. To think anything else would be naive. Some systems are more open on not being fair than others. The sad thing with communism is that it is a nice thought (serious) but that humans are not suited to implement it. If capitalism favors someone successful it's just proved that the idea is working. There are other flaws in capitalism and democracies and corruption exists in all systems where humans are present.

/Mikael
post #29 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by -cj- View Post

I don't think he's implying anything nefarious by Apple at all. It's okay, I think he agrees with you and is trying to avoid accusations from people sensitive to Apple acting like a greedy corporate monster. He's pointing out that Apple hasn't sought out to be a big brother presence on the universities, the universities approached Apple.

cj, I agree. But your perception of Apple's presence in education is incorrect. Apple, right from the introduction of the Mac and now has made continuing efforts in this arena besides monetary, (http://images.apple.com/education/fi...nection_DS.pdf) with its Learning Interchange (http://edcommunity.apple.com/ali/ amongst many other initiatives.
post #30 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by freethinker View Post

Your premise is unsettling. Apple is a major corporation that uses slave labor like conditions in China to produce it's technology.

What is your evidence that Apple uses slave labor like conditions? The fact that Apple is a major corporation is irrelevant.
post #31 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by michelle_eris View Post

What is your evidence that Apple uses slave labor like conditions? The fact that Apple is a major corporation is irrelevant.

I am sure that you can do the research yourself, if you really were interested. Here for example is "evidence":



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/5079590.stm

Apple is a great corporation in that it promotes ingenuity and radical technology that makes a whole bunch of people's lives better. I am proud to own a MBP and Ipod and I have had minimal problems with each. But I also try my best not to buy products made by slave labor. No matter what the cost of living is in China or other places in the world, workers shouldn't get $1.60 a day for a 15 hour shift. I think that we should press the corporations we love and envision as trendsetters to do more to ensure a fair trade, if you will, of goods and services throughout the world. It is not being idealistic. It is instead being pragmatic. We are lucky as westerners not to be born on the other side of the stick and we shouldn't forget that.

Thats all.
post #32 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by freethinker View Post

I am sure that you can do the research yourself, if you really were interested. Here for example is "evidence":



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/5079590.stm

No matter what the cost of living is in China or other places in the world, workers shouldn't get $1.60 a day for a 15 hour shift.

Thats all.

I have a couple of problems with your slander. One is that it is not accurate. The second is that I don't agree with the statement that the cost of living does not matter.

For better accuracy, try using a not-outdated source that shows conditions considered to be unacceptable by Apple. The one you cite is before an investigation where Apple stated they are unacceptable conditions. The results of the investigation show there were conditions being used that did not meet Apple standards and a plan of action has been implemented. Here is the AI article:
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...ory_probe.html

So, their policy is an average 10 hour work day, which is long, but not 15 hrs by a long shot.

The article I linked to also shows that the pay scale was difficult to understand because it integrated costs paid for housing, food and other such things. I bet the $1.60/day is the ugliest looking figure possible - not accounting for other benefits. If you take out what I pay for living expenses these people don't have to pay for from my paycheck (housing, water, food, transportation to and from work, etc) my salary sounds much worse than it really is.

Lastly, I don't pretend that this is the case, but to make a point, if I lived in a country where I could buy all the clothes I need, receive health care, have enough money for some recreation and meet my daily living requirements for $40/month I would gladly take it over living in Califormia, where a $75,000/yr salary can feel like lower class.
post #33 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by freethinker View Post

I am sure that you can do the research yourself, if you really were interested. Here for example is "evidence":



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/5079590.stm

Apple is a great corporation in that it promotes ingenuity and radical technology that makes a whole bunch of people's lives better. I am proud to own a MBP and Ipod and I have had minimal problems with each. But I also try my best not to buy products made by slave labor. No matter what the cost of living is in China or other places in the world, workers shouldn't get $1.60 a day for a 15 hour shift. I think that we should press the corporations we love and envision as trendsetters to do more to ensure a fair trade, if you will, of goods and services throughout the world. It is not being idealistic. It is instead being pragmatic. We are lucky as westerners not to be born on the other side of the stick and we shouldn't forget that.

Thats all.

If you really believe that way, then why do you slight Apple for a news account that was investigated a year ago and deemed unfounded. Apple sent high level reps to find out if it was true. They came back and said that the workers wages and conditions were better than most in China. Sure we're talking China who controls everything and even "Photoshops Antelope" and lies about everything, but what do you want Apple to do? Apple's overseas policies are better than any other US corporation.
post #34 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by freethinker View Post

I am sure that you can do the research yourself, if you really were interested. Here for example is "evidence":



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/5079590.stm

Apple is a great corporation in that it promotes ingenuity and radical technology that makes a whole bunch of people's lives better. I am proud to own a MBP and Ipod and I have had minimal problems with each. But I also try my best not to buy products made by slave labor. No matter what the cost of living is in China or other places in the world, workers shouldn't get $1.60 a day for a 15 hour shift. I think that we should press the corporations we love and envision as trendsetters to do more to ensure a fair trade, if you will, of goods and services throughout the world. It is not being idealistic. It is instead being pragmatic. We are lucky as westerners not to be born on the other side of the stick and we shouldn't forget that.

Thats all.

I don't have to do any research; you made the allegation, so it is up to you to document it.

That article you cited is almost two years old, and shows just the opposite of what you claim.

You far left radicals are almost as bad as the far right; you are so tied up in your ideology that you lose sight of reality. Fortunately, you aren't trying to cause harm like the far right does, but you certainly get in the way of progress towards true equality.
post #35 of 40
Quote:
We are lucky as westerners not to be born on the other side of the stick and we shouldn't forget that.

You shouldn't make generalizations like that. It show your ignorance. I live on a fixed budget and their are plenty of people in China who make more than I do in a year, and my pension doesn't go nearly as far. You can't buy a car making $1.60/hr. But China is selling quite a few cars lately. You really need to get better read.
post #36 of 40
The problem is that many American companies are motivated strictly by greed. Prior to the mid nineties, large companies were having the greatest economic run in their entire histories. They used their new found wealth to buy off politicians to pass so called free trade zone agreements whereby companies could built things overseas in Countries with very little respect for the principles many of us here in the US hold dear. These products are then shipped back to the United States without having to pay taxes. The tradition of taxing foreign made products date back to the Founding Fathers of our Country. The practice kept the American economy strong. Worse, the politicians give American companies tax breaks for relocating overseas! The irony is that with many jobs going overseas, our economy is in the tank. The only new job growth is in the service industry.

I use to work for a mid sized clothing manufacturing company in the US. The owner wanted to stay in the US, but couldn't because he couldn't effort to compete with foreign labor and tax breaks given to companies moving overseas. Keep in mind, this was a guy who was already using mostly illegal workers in the US to try and stay competitive. I use to come in at 8 in the morning. His workers would be there at 6. They would leave at 8. They had a half hour break.

I think Americans should stick together and keep our money here in the United states. You after all are supporting Americans when you do so. When you buy products made in Countries like China you support the Communist Party and essentially pay the Chinese to undermine our quality of life here. Trust me, I am a Bankruptcy attorney and I see the effects of Free Trade agreements everyday. Most companies in China are owned by members of the Communist party. The workers can't vote or organize. China even utilizes political prisoners to manufacture products.

With all that said, it is hard to fault Apple for building computers overseas in dismal Countries like China. It would have a hard time competing otherwise. In addition, you can't really blame somebody for buying products made in China to some extent because the said reality is today you couldn't live without utilizing products made I such countries. Moreover, the irony is because most decent paying jobs are moving overseas people can't effort to buy anything other then the cheap Chinese products.



Quote:
Originally Posted by webfrasse View Post

Free pass to what?

I don't know if you noticed but when the corporate world is doing bad the whole economy is doing bad. Who benefits from that? Maybe we should take your approach in the educational world. Everyone moves at the pace of the slowest student. No one moves ahead of anyone else. All equally bad. Maybe that's a better world...

Nothing is ever going to be fair. I'm not saying I support corporation taking advantage of poor countries and bad labor conditions but present an alternative instead. What if no production at all was done in China to produce products you could afford (I guess you're using some of these products since you're on this forum...). Would the conditions be better in China with no money at all flowing into the country... I think you're comment is a bit naive and idealistic.

Communism is also a nice thought...as long as it stays that way...a thought.

/Mikael
post #37 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post

The problem is that many American companies are motivated strictly by greed. Prior to the mid nineties, large companies were having the greatest economic run in their entire histories. They used their new found wealth to buy off politicians to pass so called free trade zone agreements whereby companies could built things overseas in Countries with very little respect for the principles many of us here in the US hold dear. These products are then shipped back to the United States without having to pay taxes. The tradition of taxing foreign made products date back to the Founding Fathers of our Country. The practice kept the American economy strong. Worse, the politicians give American companies tax breaks for relocating overseas! The irony is that with many jobs going overseas, our economy is in the tank. The only new job growth is in the service industry.

I use to work for a mid sized clothing manufacturing company in the US. The owner wanted to stay in the US, but couldn't because he couldn't effort to compete with foreign labor and tax breaks given to companies moving overseas. Keep in mind, this was a guy who was already using mostly illegal workers in the US to try and stay competitive. I use to come in at 8 in the morning. His workers would be there at 6. They would leave at 8. They had a half hour break.

I think Americans should stick together and keep our money here in the United states. You after all are supporting Americans when you do so. When you buy products made in Countries like China you support the Communist Party and essentially pay the Chinese to undermine our quality of life here. Trust me, I am a Bankruptcy attorney and I see the effects of Free Trade agreements everyday. Most companies in China are owned by members of the Communist party. The workers can't vote or organize. China even utilizes political prisoners to manufacture products.

With all that said, it is hard to fault Apple for building computers overseas in dismal Countries like China. It would have a hard time competing otherwise. In addition, you can't really blame somebody for buying products made in China to some extent because the said reality is today you couldn't live without utilizing products made I such countries. Moreover, the irony is because most decent paying jobs are moving overseas people can't effort to buy anything other then the cheap Chinese products.

I almost don't know where to start;-)

Don't think this is an American problem. I'm Swedish but live and work in Silicon Valley since almost 6 years back. This is the same issue that all leading economies have. The situation you describe is exactly what is happening in Sweden, France, UK...you name it. Building barriers didn't/doesn't work in politics (the wall...) and it won't work in economics. This is the effect of FREE economy. Deal with it and let the wealth go around and/or compete on an open market by finding new niches and create new markets, better products etc. We have a at least a generation headstart on all new economies. Stop whining.

Jobs used to move to to India (as an example) mainly because of the cost. Now they are also smarter and people are actually moving from US to India. The wage gap is shrinking fast and so is the world with all the new fast communication channels. Some business will always be local but you can't stop change with laws and fences.

Maybe US is the new UK that used to rule the world 150-200 years ago. They got wealthy, stopped investing and develop new products and lost the empire. Their whole industrial machinery is/was completely run down because they just took the profit and got "fat and lazy".

I find it very ironic that the most "free" country in the world want to build walls when they get the full effect of capitalism.

/Mikael
post #38 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by webfrasse View Post

I almost don't know where to start;-)

Don't think this is an American problem. I'm Swedish but live and work in Silicon Valley since almost 6 years back. This is the same issue that all leading economies have. The situation you describe is exactly what is happening in Sweden, France, UK...you name it. Building barriers didn't/doesn't work in politics (the wall...) and it won't work in economics. This is the effect of FREE economy. Deal with it and let the wealth go around and/or compete on an open market by finding new niches and create new markets, better products etc. We have a at least a generation headstart on all new economies. Stop whining.

Jobs used to move to to India (as an example) mainly because of the cost. Now they are also smarter and people are actually moving from US to India. The wage gap is shrinking fast and so is the world with all the new fast communication channels. Some business will always be local but you can't stop change with laws and fences.

Maybe US is the new UK that used to rule the world 150-200 years ago. They got wealthy, stopped investing and develop new products and lost the empire. Their whole industrial machinery is/was completely run down because they just took the profit and got "fat and lazy".

I find it very ironic that the most "free" country in the world want to build walls when they get the full effect of capitalism.

/Mikael

Protectionism always creeps into the so-called 'free-market' because the powerful use their money and influence to their advantage, which includes political advantage. For proof of that, just look at how the military-industrial complex and the oil companies call the shots at the White House.

The fact is, we do not have a truly free market in all aspects. There will always be some kind of imbalance. And usually the imbalance comes from the intrusion of government at some level. HAVING SAID THAT, I'll take American capitalism over anything else out there right now.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #39 of 40
Quote:
Protectionism always creeps into the so-called 'free-market'...

Quote:
I find it very ironic that the most "free" country in the world want to build walls when they get the full effect of capitalism.

The problem is we don't have "free trade" in principle with China. China, and most of the other trading partners, use their ability to control their labor cost, undercutting America's ability to compete. Furthermore, most so-called American Corporations are really multinational and influence our government effectively to keep the imbalance so they can increase their bottom line.

Big business only wants America to live up to true "free trade," so they can suck us dry.

That said, the topic discussion was that Apple as a corporation was getting a bad rap from the poster "Freethinker" saying Apple exploited foreign labor. I feel that Apple is one of the few American corporations that is still proud to be American, and to that I say Bravo! Apple.
post #40 of 40
You do realize that one of the largest shareholders of AAPL is Barclays Global Investors, part of Barclays Bank? Yay, America!

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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