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Apple to serve as regulator for iPhone app distribution - Page 2

post #41 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by wbrasington View Post

I think everyone needs to just relax and take a chill-pill.

Actually, you need to use a better analogy. There is nothing Apple could do to charge for podcasts. They don't develop, host, or pay for them. Plus, you still could get them from other sources and stick it on your ipod (like the good ol' days), since Apple can't keep you from putting an MP3 on your device.

However, change 'podcast' to something that actually is very similar to what we have now: 'iPod Games'

Does apple get a cut of every game that is on iTunes?

Yes.

Why would you guys think that applications distributed on iTunes would require paying Apple for those?

Because there's no free games now. Ergo...

Does Apple limit games on iTunes that they don't agree or like?

Yes.

Why would you guys think Apple wants to get in the business of evaluating applications to "see if they like them"?

To make sure that someone doesn't make an app that will cut into their own money-making deals.
post #42 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

I believe thats what Apple have been saying since they released the iPhone. They are concerned about security and stability. You don't have to go through the whole source code to know if a program actually have a trojan or a virus. All programs will be built using Apple iPhone SDK and I am sure that they will have a quick way to check for viruses programed using it.

Sorry, but there is no way to scan a program for a trojan. An address book type app would of course use APIs to get data from the address book and to send emails. But what can Apple check to make sure there's no sending email to nefarious spammers? Stick in a time delay for this to happen, and Apple won't even see it as traffic on the network, most likely.
post #43 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quagga View Post

Ah well, looks like I'll be trying to figure out how to jailbreak my 1.1.4 iPod Touch this weekend.

Me too. I've never even considered jailbreaking. But if there aren't at least a few good apps released next week with promise of lots more to come I'll be there. The games and programs out there for iPhone sound like a lot of fun.
post #44 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

Explain how an app can crash a network.

By flooding it with traffic. Analogy...ever been stuck in traffic? The network (road) is fine...are you happy...no.

/Mikael
post #45 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

Can you prove that one virus has ever harmed a cell network? No you can't and neither can AT&T nor Apple. Stop believing what they tell you and do some research. You maybe be able to harm the phone, but you can not crash a modern IN enabled cell network.

What an unbelievably naiive thing to say.

Every digital system that has ever been made can be compromised. Did you see that story in the news about Youtube getting hijacked by Pakistani telecom engineers last week? Yeah, the venerable Internet can be broken from time to time. It would not be hard to plan a DoS attack from a few million zombie PCs that would bring the Net to a crawl. Imagine what a few million trojan-infected iPhones could do.

But maybe you can turn your powers of self-delusion to your advantage and apply for a job at Microsoft's marketing department. ;-)
post #46 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrjoec123 View Post

I disagree. Selling exclusively through the iTunes store will virtually guarantee that the apps are actually paid for, instead of pirated. This gives the developer a secure revenue stream, which should help keep prices down for the consumer. Everybody wins.

In the Palm and Windows Mobile market, piracy is rampant, so the majority of the apps are way overpriced for what they deliver. $20-$50 for "baby" software, as Steve would put it. Compare iPod games, for instance, with the average Palm OS game. The same game that's $25 for the Palm platform is $5 for the iPod. Ever wonder why?

What if I want to give away my software? Is Apple preventing me from doing this?
post #47 of 142
Can't say that I'm surprised; it fits Apple's MO to a T - it's a good thing/bad thing IMO.

Never had a problem with 3rd party apps on WM or Symbian, only the carrier or OEM. Poorly coded apps will still get through, after awhile, Apple will probably just slap a digital sig on the file, as long as the app falls into certain criteria.
post #48 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louzer View Post

Why should a company, or, more importantly, an individual, have to spend any time at all dealing with Apple just to make an application for a phone? More importantly, if you're a developer and have a great idea for an app, will Apple not 'bless' it because they (or one of their partners) have a similar app? Will they refuse to 'bless' an app that cuts into their revenue streams (like an app to download/install music from Amazon?).

And if you develop a quick app for your own use (say an app to talk to your web server to perform quick status checks), do you have to basically PAY YOURSELF (with a stipend to apple) to install it on the phone?

Well put. It will be interesting to see how your questions are answered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Louzer View Post

Is this something we can look forward to in OS X.6?

Don't be to surprised.
post #49 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

Explain how an app can crash a network.

This is probably the most famous:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morris_worm

I remember the day it happened, the Internet was nearly brought to its knees. Billions of dollars of lost productivity. If it happened with iPhones, Apple could be liable for huge damages. So I think their tight control is a pretty smart move.
post #50 of 142
I'm more than happy to let Apple carry out the quality control of software before it is installed on my iPhone.

There are millions of normal iPhone users out there who do not want to hack or jailbreak their phones and those people (like me) will fine this great.

If you want to hack your phone then feel free, it is your hardware after all.

Ian
post #51 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louzer View Post

That was the blackberry back-end that was being updated. Sure, if you screw up the back-end, it will bring down the network, just as already happened with AT&T and iPhones.

But that ain't the point.



And how is Apple planning on preventing trojans from infecting a phone? Are they going to demand all source code and scrounge it for every possible task it does? Will then indemnify the end-user if a trojan gets passed their system and ends up on your iPhone and steals your contact info? There's no 'real' security against a trojan.

Exactly. There is no recorded history that I am aware of nor my friends at Nokia, or SE, and DSS (State Department Security) that has seen a rogue application bring a network down. This is Jedi Mind Control and marketing trick that all to many Apple followers are willing to believe. Intelligent Networks simply do not crash because of an application. I use Apple products daily, but I have no illusions that Steve Jobs is my friend or that his is looking out for my best interest. His loyalty is to the share holders and the current Mrs. Jobs.
post #52 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by ravelgrane View Post

This is probably the most famous:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morris_worm

I remember the day it happened, the Internet was nearly brought to its knees. Billions of dollars of lost productivity. If it happened with iPhones, Apple could be liable for huge damages. So I think their tight control is a pretty smart move.

This is not comparable to a cell network. The Internet is not the same. Apples and oranges.
post #53 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by parky View Post

I'm more than happy to let Apple carry out the quality control of software before it is installed on my iPhone.

There are millions of normal iPhone users out there who do not want to hack or jailbreak their phones and those people (like me) will fine this great.

If you want to hack your phone then feel free, it is your hardware after all.

Ian

The point is you are installing the app, not Apple. If you don't want the app, don't install it. But don't put it in the hands of Apple to decide what app can and cannot be installed. If I write my own app for my iPhone, why should it be Apple's business? If I want to give my app away for free, why should Apple prevent this?

I'm afraid Steve's bullheadedness will kill the potential of the iPhone in the long run.
post #54 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by ravelgrane View Post

What an unbelievably naiive thing to say.

Every digital system that has ever been made can be compromised. Did you see that story in the news about Youtube getting hijacked by Pakistani telecom engineers last week? Yeah, the venerable Internet can be broken from time to time. It would not be hard to plan a DoS attack from a few million zombie PCs that would bring the Net to a crawl. Imagine what a few million trojan-infected iPhones could do.

But maybe you can turn your powers of self-delusion to your advantage and apply for a job at Microsoft's marketing department. ;-)

You are displaying a lack of understanding how a cell phone network functions. The Internet is not a cell network. Your comparison is moot and pointless.
post #55 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by webfrasse View Post

By flooding it with traffic. Analogy...ever been stuck in traffic? The network (road) is fine...are you happy...no.

/Mikael

Basestations do use IN technologies to provide provisioning and traffic shaping. If cells become saturated, they simply dump the data calls and use the newly allocated bandwidth for voice calls as voice has a priority over data.
post #56 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

Basestations do use IN technologies to provide provisioning and traffic shaping. If cells become saturated, they simply dump the data calls and use the newly allocated bandwidth for voice calls as voice has a priority over data.

Granted - but what if you were dependant on the *d*a*t*a* bit of the network. Granted it will be a long time before anyone will get a SLA on that - but still. imagine a dDoS of some sort and you are the poor service technician who tries to synch his PDA ? The words shaft and ed springs to mind....

Granted that this is an issue the would concern more the WinMob fraction then anything/-one else but MS is not tied commercially to any network. I guess if an iPhone app (official) brings down the AT&T data network => they would sue for liability and too right too.
post #57 of 142
Stop letting apple off the hook on this. Why hasn't AT&Ts network crashed already. Millions of BlackBerrys, WM phones, Nokia N model phones have all types of open 3rd party support, and AT&Ts network seems to be just fine.
post #58 of 142
Do you know what you are talking about?
Quote:
Originally Posted by freelander51 View Post

Granted - but what if you were dependant on the *d*a*t*a* bit of the network. Granted it will be a long time before anyone will get a SLA on that - but still. imagine a dDoS of some sort and you are the poor service technician who tries to synch his PDA ? The words shaft and ed springs to mind....

Granted that this is an issue the would concern more the WinMob fraction then anything/-one else but MS is not tied commercially to any network. I guess if an iPhone app (official) brings down the AT&T data network => they would sue for liability and too right too.
post #59 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Apple Inc. will have the final say over which third-party iPhone and iPod touch applications are deemed suitable for release, according to a new report, which also confirms several other suspicions previously waged regarding the firm's upcoming software developers kit (SDK) and its associated policies.

I would hope so.

They say that it costs over a billion dollars to bring a new drug to market today. Years of research, in vivo/in vitro studies, Phase I, Phase II, Phase II and Phase IV clinical trials, etc., and yet never a guarantee that it will be effective, safe or even succeed. A particularly uncertain venture with new chemical entities with unique modes of action. And once approved, it still is required that the developer continue to support its claims of effectiveness and safety as long as they are selling it. In the US we have the FDA to help monitor the situation, but the responsibility is still in the hands of the developer.

This scenario is not far from that which has occurred with the iPhone and what one should hope to happen with any application for which it is designed to be used on. Not that it is a life threatening concern, but for the primary reason that Apple stated was their only priority right from the beginning. Above everything else, the iPhone must work as a phone. Everything else is secondary.

And by the sounds of things, it is working. Even with all the surfing and voice mail, something we couldn't do or as well before, the iPhone continues to work.

So what is the problem that Apple devises a strategy that helps ensure that anything I add to my iPhone will maintain its integrity and I continue to get a dial tone when I want to call home or a familiar ring when my mom calls me. And not a, 'Can't find the server', or Low battery message.

Image for the moment if every diabetic syringe couldn't be loaded with heroin.
post #60 of 142
What happened to the concept of an open market? Monopolistic is what comes to mind when speaking of Apple. Also, why is it that Apple can get away with this type of anti-marketing behavior and everyone else gets their day in court?

Bottom line is that Apple wants complete control over the manufacturing and sale of devices/softare designed to run with their products. Why should they have the final word on what is good software? Let the consumer and the marketplace have the final word.
post #61 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Your "counter culture" attitude is exactly why Apple has to do this. Unlike a computer Apple has to make sure the iPhone platform is stable and "safe" for the phone network as well. I think the smart thing to do is start out conservative and work you way on up.

Either you work for Apple, or you are royally full of crap, or both. First, I can well afford to pay for softwareand do. Second, I do not need Apple to act in my behave regarding the software I wish to upload. Third, I take full accountability for my actions should said software cause issues.

Apple is doing this solely for the money. Having had a Mac since 1984, I have seen a great deal of how Apple works, and they are becoming more like Big Brother.

Here's another great movement: Democratic bill could force Apple, AT&T to unlock iPhone
post #62 of 142
If this is true it will be bad for small company developers like myself. Hope it isn't true. No problem with itune distribution, but I find it hard to believe that they will judge which apps are worthy like a bunch of nazi's. I do not think this will happen, but you never know. They make smart decisions and really stupid decisions at apple.
post #63 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevetim View Post

No problem with itune distribution, but I find it hard to believe that they will judge which apps are worthy like a bunch of nazi's.

They already are, and if some of the Apple shrills will come forth they will admit to it (fat chance of that happening). No, I am not a developer I just know many a developer. I would not call Apple Nazis though, just too much Big Brother. Lords of Rings comes to mind...precious.
post #64 of 142
All this ranting and raving! Thank god 1G iPhone is one of the few Apple products I don't own.
Think about it- ever since it's been launched all I hear are people bitching and whining!
post #65 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louzer View Post

Sorry, but there is no way to scan a program for a trojan. An address book type app would of course use APIs to get data from the address book and to send emails. But what can Apple check to make sure there's no sending email to nefarious spammers? Stick in a time delay for this to happen, and Apple won't even see it as traffic on the network, most likely.

Please read correctly. I said you don't have to go through the source code to make sure there are no trojans or viruses, there are many ways to avoid them. Apple may accept only "trusted" developers though iTunes. I don't think Microsoft, IBM, google.. etc will be embedding their software with trojans or viruses.
post #66 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

They say that it costs over a billion dollars to bring a new drug to market today. Years of research, in vivo/in vitro studies, Phase I, Phase II, Phase II and Phase IV clinical trials, etc., and yet never a guarantee that it will be effective, safe or even succeed. A particularly uncertain venture with new chemical entities with unique modes of action. And once approved, it still is required that the developer continue to support its claims of effectiveness and safety as long as they are selling it. In the US we have the FDA to help monitor the situation, but the responsibility is still in the hands of the developer.

This scenario is not far from that which has occurred with the iPhone and what one should hope to happen with any application for which it is designed to be used on. Not that it is a life threatening concern, but for the primary reason that Apple stated was their only priority right from the beginning. Above everything else, the iPhone must work as a phone. Everything else is secondary.

Pharmaceuticals to software? Are you out of your bloody mind in making this comparison? Really now. Did you load the wrong syringe today?
post #67 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

All this ranting and raving! Thank god 1G iPhone is one of the few Apple products I don't own.
... all I hear are people bitching and whining!

It's referred to as "constructive criticism."
post #68 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by CREB View Post

They already are,[/I].

I really don't believe this article ... yet, but again ... you never know. I think that there can be a system in place for everyone to distribute iphone software similar to the "podcast" concept with the "podcast" becoming an iphone app. I think an "itune" model is in place for free and open software development ... similar to free and open podcast content. I'll be watching closely next week.
post #69 of 142
Why all the venom folks? Let the itunes drones pump their $$ into the Apple machine. The iPhone is already open and quality apps are starting to appear.

And I bet the first true iPhone clones are 6-12 months away. Reminds me of 1985 and the Leading Edge PC (first true IBM PC clone)
post #70 of 142
Thank God most people in the real word and regular consumers don't really give a damn about most of the issues being raised here, it's just people who like to come on these boards and complain about everything does, I'm sure y'all are the intended market for Apple, just based on some unamed source we have all these people coming out to write a whole bunch of foolishness, anyways we'll find out on Thursday what Apple has in store for us.
post #71 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Your "counter culture" attitude is exactly why Apple has to do this. Unlike a computer Apple has to make sure the iPhone platform is stable and "safe" for the phone network as well. I think the smart thing to do is start out conservative and work you way on up.

I think thats bullshit.
The same argument could be made for computers then. Are you saying Apple should control exactly what apps we put on our macs? Oh, and we can only get our apps from iTunes?
All in the name of safety. Whatever, sounds like a corporate version of 'homeland security' to me.
Download an unauthorized app on your Mac and Apple bricks it... how well do you think that would go over?

I can see how it's fine for some developers, however, it's software, and dev's should be able to sell it off their own sites using their own pos systems.
Who knows, maybe this is just a stall tactic until they can develop the iPhone and iPod Touch more.

*pos is 'point of sale' btw... not 'piece of shit'... or maybe it could be that too... take your pick.
post #72 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by ravelgrane View Post

This is probably the most famous:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morris_worm

I remember the day it happened, the Internet was nearly brought to its knees. Billions of dollars of lost productivity. If it happened with iPhones, Apple could be liable for huge damages. So I think their tight control is a pretty smart move.

How about actually reading the links you post? "The U.S. GAO put the cost of the damage at $10M100M." Last I checked $100M is not billions of dollars. "Robert Morris was tried and convicted of violating the 1986 Computer Fraud and Abuse Act. After appeals he was sentenced to three years probation, 400 hours of community service, and a fine of $10,050." Hmmm ... I missed where Digital Equipment Corp was held liable for damages (since it was their computers the worm ran on) ... probably because they weren't.
post #73 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

They say that it costs over a billion dollars to bring a new drug to market today. Years of research, [blah, blah, blah]

The pharmaceutical industry spends more on advertising than they do on producing new drugs.
post #74 of 142
Don't get me wrong here. Mac is great. I've had them since -89. iPhone is good. Touch is good. Lot of other good products over the years. Job has unarguable had a lot to do with what Apple has been able to offer and what Apple is today. But...

Jobs is a control freak. He fumbled when there was a change for MacOS to become THE operating system. Jobs wanted to have total control and Microsoft became the dominant operating system provider.

Now Apple has a good phone, certainly not the best in hardware sense, but very innovative in software respect. The platform might have a good chance to gain some respectable market share. It seems however that Jobs is going to let his inbuild need for total control to blow this opportunity also.

Keeping the platform closed will push away a lot of developers and innovation. Something Apple needs to make iPhone to become a real hit product. It will also very effectively keep iPhone out of the large scale enterprise market.

Who will put serious amount of resources and/or time in developing a SW-product for a niche phone, when there is no certainty whether the final product will ever be allowed run on the platform it is developed for? Some sure will, but too many wont.
post #75 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by freelander51 View Post

Granted - but what if you were dependant on the *d*a*t*a* bit of the network. Granted it will be a long time before anyone will get a SLA on that - but still. imagine a dDoS of some sort and you are the poor service technician who tries to synch his PDA ? The words shaft and ed springs to mind....

Granted that this is an issue the would concern more the WinMob fraction then anything/-one else but MS is not tied commercially to any network. I guess if an iPhone app (official) brings down the AT&T data network => they would sue for liability and too right too.

Dude you do not understand. I am talking about the IN part of the cell network. Not the Internet. Cell networks use the Internet or have access to it via gateways, routers, etc... I cell network is not dependent upon the Internet to exist. You can make calls all day long and not use one drop of data. How would your iPhone crash this IN cell network. IT CAN'T. You bought into the Apple - AT&T lie. If a cell network approaches saturation it will route around or simply drop those calls based on call precedence. You can not crash a cell network with an application. END OF STORY.
post #76 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myrsky View Post

Don't get me wrong here. Mac is great. I've had them since -89. iPhone is good. Touch is good. Lot of other good products over the years. Job has unarguable had a lot to do with what Apple has been able to offer and what Apple is today. But...

Jobs is a control freak. He fumbled when there was a change for MacOS to become THE operating system. Jobs wanted to have total control and Microsoft became the dominant operating system provider.

Now Apple has a good phone, certainly not the best in hardware sense, but very innovative in software respect. The platform might have a good chance to gain some respectable market share. It seems however that Jobs is going to let his inbuild need for total control to blow this opportunity also.

Keeping the platform closed will push away a lot of developers and innovation. Something Apple needs to make iPhone to become a real hit product. It will also very effectively keep iPhone out of the large scale enterprise market.

Who will put serious amount of resources and/or time in developing a SW-product for a niche phone, when there is no certainty whether the final product will ever be allowed run on the platform it is developed for? Some sure will, but too many wont.

Yes Apple don't know what they're doing because they won't allow you to install crap programs, the iphone is a hit prooduct with or without your programs, why don't you go and design your own phone and turn it into a hit.
post #77 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

Please read correctly. I said you don't have to go through the source code to make sure there are no trojans or viruses, there are many ways to avoid them. Apple may accept only "trusted" developers though iTunes. I don't think Microsoft, IBM, google.. etc will be embedding their software with trojans or viruses.

You do not understand the concept that there are two totally independent networks. One being the Internet and the other being the cell network. They exist completely independent of each other. Do you understand this? No application on the iPhone can crash a cell network.
post #78 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adjei View Post

Y...why don't you go and design your own phone and turn it into a hit.

Ahhh, "make one yourself." The last refuge of someone with his head up his a**.
post #79 of 142
This is all academic anyway. F/W 1.1.4 was hacked and able to unlock the iPhone. So, I will pick and choose where I get my apps. From the hackers (many are very good and I bet you Apple will be copying their code) or from iTunes. Hackers give us a choice.
post #80 of 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by rain View Post

I think thats bullshit.
The same argument could be made for computers then. Are you saying Apple should control exactly what apps we put on our macs? Oh, and we can only get our apps from iTunes?
All in the name of safety. Whatever, sounds like a corporate version of 'homeland security' to me.
Download an unauthorized app on your Mac and Apple bricks it... how well do you think that would go over?

I can see how it's fine for some developers, however, it's software, and dev's should be able to sell it off their own sites using their own pos systems.
Who knows, maybe this is just a stall tactic until they can develop the iPhone and iPod Touch more.

*pos is 'point of sale' btw... not 'piece of shit'... or maybe it could be that too... take your pick.

Not any different when the first cell phones were introduced or the Mac for that matter. How about the XBox or the Blackberry. Even Nokia today has some phones that won't let it. Let's see, I can't put unleaded gas in my car.
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