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So how many more of you would buy MacBook Air's - Page 2

post #41 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splinemodel View Post

The MacBook isn't a far cry from the Air. Many of you whiners should check it out, since it has basically all the features you bemoan are missing from the Air, in an enclosure that is as small as can be for accommodating these extra things. The Air is in an enclosure that is as small as can be to accommodate its features. If there were a way to get into the Air all of these extra features, don't you think they'd be options?

Well, I, for one, don't consider myself a "whiner", just a tad disappointed. I mean, its not like I'm going to go back to a Windows laptop just because the MBA doesn't have a FW port, but I'm still hopeful to see one in a second gen Air.

I agree about the MB, in fact I already have a blackbook which I've always thought has Teh Sexy™, but not nearly the kind of Teh Sexy™ that the Air has.

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post #42 of 83
Spending 1/3rd of my life on the road, I'm the type of user that the MBA was designed for. Having used Apple laptops since the mid 1990's I'm well used to what these things cost, and frankly I'm OK with that. For me it's a tool, a very important tool that I use to get my work done, plus a little leftover for some fun at the end of the day. In comparison with my current Aluminum Pro model, I fully expect that the tradeoff for reduced size and weight will be reduced performance. I'm quite OK with that, because my work doesn't require a lot of CPU horsepower. I also don't care about how *fast* the HD is. That said, I can't use an MBA in my daily use until they can get me more than 80 GB of disk space, it's as simple as that. Nobody wants an MBA more than me, if for no other reason than the ease of whipping it out of my bag and running it through the security scanner with my coat and shoes. I would gladly have traded a few millimeters more of thickness for a larger capacity drive. Since the intro at MacWorld I've been trying to pare down my 120 GB of data into something that'll fit into an MBA but I only have so much time -I'll happily pay whatever to be able to just dump *everything* into a new, smaller laptop.

For now, I'm anxiously awaiting revision 2. Or 3.

Joe
post #43 of 83
If the Apple Store pages are to be trusted, then the MBA is selling rather well world-wide. Its detractors are extremely vociferous, but lots of people seem to like it.

 

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post #44 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powelligator View Post

Spending 1/3rd of my life on the road, I'm the type of user that the MBA was designed for. Having used Apple laptops since the mid 1990's I'm well used to what these things cost, and frankly I'm OK with that. For me it's a tool, a very important tool that I use to get my work done, plus a little leftover for some fun at the end of the day. In comparison with my current Aluminum Pro model, I fully expect that the tradeoff for reduced size and weight will be reduced performance. I'm quite OK with that, because my work doesn't require a lot of CPU horsepower. I also don't care about how *fast* the HD is. That said, I can't use an MBA in my daily use until they can get me more than 80 GB of disk space, it's as simple as that. Nobody wants an MBA more than me, if for no other reason than the ease of whipping it out of my bag and running it through the security scanner with my coat and shoes. I would gladly have traded a few millimeters more of thickness for a larger capacity drive. Since the intro at MacWorld I've been trying to pare down my 120 GB of data into something that'll fit into an MBA but I only have so much time -I'll happily pay whatever to be able to just dump *everything* into a new, smaller laptop.

For now, I'm anxiously awaiting revision 2. Or 3.

Joe

I'd written the Air off until I saw and used it in person yesterday and now I agree with what you're saying. The Air is lovely to look at and lovely to use but the size and weight saving is so extreme you wonder why they couldn't have made it a tiny big thicker and given everyone the streamlined MBP 12 or 13" so many people have been wanting.

The fact the Air is so close to what a 12 or 13" MBP could be and yet there's nothing between it and the 15" MBP gives me the horrible feeling Apple are gonna stick with this situation and not bother upgrading the Air. We either get a hobbled machine that's thinner than a lot of people need it to be or a fully functional machine that's too damn big.

I'm sure Apple don't give a monkey's but I ain't buying either and I'm frustrated as hell.
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post #45 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogue68 View Post

I'd written the Air off until I saw and used it in person yesterday and now I agree with what you're saying. The Air is lovely to look at and lovely to use but the size and weight saving is so extreme you wonder why they couldn't have made it a tiny big thicker and given everyone the streamlined MBP 12 or 13" so many people have been wanting.

The fact the Air is so close to what a 12 or 13" MBP could be and yet there's nothing between it and the 15" MBP gives me the horrible feeling Apple are gonna stick with this situation and not bother upgrading the Air. We either get a hobbled machine that's thinner than a lot of people need it to be or a fully functional machine that's too damn big.

I'm sure Apple don't give a monkey's but I ain't buying either and I'm frustrated as hell.

What are you using right now that's better for you than one or the other, might I ask?
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post #46 of 83
Title says it all I'm the proud owner of a new MacBook Pro! The AIR is just to limited to be a long term investment. Since all my PC's are long term investments the AIR wasn't even considered.

By the way I actually went to the store to purchase an iPhone, but for whatever reason walked out with a MacBook Pro. Well part of the reason was the need for a laptop but the other is for a iphone development platform.

Dave
post #47 of 83
I am considering the Air for home use. I come home at night and have dinner with my wife. We then sit down and watch TV shows selected from our 4 Tivos. While watching TV I generally surf incessantly on my 12" PB (rev A). The Air appeals to me as it is much lighter, has a bigger screen and has better performance than the PB. Along with the AIr I would also get a Time Capsule and a 24" iMac that would go upstairs in the office. I could access files easily with the Air on the iMac and the Time Capsule so the small Air hard drive wouldn't matter to me.

Anyway that is my current plan. The Air fits my needs perfectly. And maybe it won't roast my grapes like the PB does.
post #48 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by mzaslove View Post

What are you using right now that's better for you than one or the other, might I ask?

Last gen TiBook on its last legs. It's not ideal but if I gotta have bulky and functional or tiny and crippled I'll stay functional until the Ti croaks or Apple bring out something closer to what I want. Like a lot of people in my position, I'm not prepared to give Apple more money for a gimmicky compromise.
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post #49 of 83
The MBA is not designed for some users, but it is also not "crippled" as many so desire to put it. Many pro users (like myself) can make very good use of the MBA, and indeed probably already have (I know what I have done and it is more than I would have gotten done with my MBP). This name-calling is getting extremely tiresome. If it doesn't suit your needs, that's life; it does not make it a bad computer [I have said this several times before].

The money I spent on the "gimmicky" MBA was well worth it; it's just that much easier to use than my MBP; it has already paid for itself. The size and weight are perfect; any heavier and it would lose some of its freeness, if I may use that word to describe how it can be moved around, even with only one hand. Sure, it can't do a few things the MBP or even the MB can, but it doesn't need to.

Apple makes four portable computers: the MacBook, the MBA, the MBP and the MBP 17" (I view these as two birds). They each have their strengths and weaknesses. They each are good for some users and not for others. That is why they make several models.

If you don't mind the added bulk and must have the extras, go for a MacBook. It will out-perform your current machine and be lighter and be more portable. If you need more power still, go for the MBP. Nobody is stopping you.

The MBA is a fantastic machine just as it is.

 

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post #50 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogue68 View Post

Last gen TiBook on its last legs. It's not ideal but if I gotta have bulky and functional or tiny and crippled I'll stay functional until the Ti croaks or Apple bring out something closer to what I want. Like a lot of people in my position, I'm not prepared to give Apple more money for a gimmicky compromise.

Odd, the MBP's are hardly "bulky" (especially compared to all the other power notebooks out there), and the MBA is hardly "crippled." Both will crush your TiBook in terms of performance, and if you need more ports, you have the choice of the MB and the MBA (or some hubbish solution). What are you going to use it for that the MBA isn't powerful enough (and since it's faster than your TiBook by a bunch, how are you working at the moment)? Or what are you needing that has to have more ports? That will dictate what you buy.

Oddly, I'm not sure why you're so up-in-arms. Me, I have no use for the MB's -- stylistically, they look inferior to the MBA's & MBP's (to my eye). They are also a compromise in power to ports, etc. But that doesn't mean I don't see where they fit in for others. They are a great machine. Why everyone who can't afford the MBA, or obviously need more ports or power and therefore need something "bigger" get so riled up about the MBA is beyond me. Seems to be such a waste of time and energy. There are three great lines of notebooks (with a nod to Bergermeister's 17'ers) with three distinct buyers (some edge into one another a bit, but not much). Why rag on any of them? At the core of it, it always seems like a money issue to me though (no matter how many people claim it isn't).
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post #51 of 83
its not that much more expensive than a souped up macbook and its a lot more portable.

i don't want one b/c i can use the extra speed of a mbp, but for a portable machine, its great.
post #52 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by mzaslove View Post

Odd, the MBP's are hardly "bulky" (especially compared to all the other power notebooks out there), and the MBA is hardly "crippled." Both will crush your TiBook in terms of performance, and if you need more ports, you have the choice of the MB and the MBA (or some hubbish solution). What are you going to use it for that the MBA isn't powerful enough (and since it's faster than your TiBook by a bunch, how are you working at the moment)? Or what are you needing that has to have more ports? That will dictate what you buy.

Oddly, I'm not sure why you're so up-in-arms. Me, I have no use for the MB's -- stylistically, they look inferior to the MBA's & MBP's (to my eye). They are also a compromise in power to ports, etc. But that doesn't mean I don't see where they fit in for others. They are a great machine. Why everyone who can't afford the MBA, or obviously need more ports or power and therefore need something "bigger" get so riled up about the MBA is beyond me. Seems to be such a waste of time and energy. There are three great lines of notebooks (with a nod to Bergermeister's 17'ers) with three distinct buyers (some edge into one another a bit, but not much). Why rag on any of them? At the core of it, it always seems like a money issue to me though (no matter how many people claim it isn't).

You can throw shade on my reasons if you like but, believe me, it's really NOT a money issue. If I wanted an Air I'd buy one, but I don't. Nor am I sufficiently enticed to buy the current MBP when a significant update is just around the corner. Please remember, none of us HAS to buy these things except for work and, as I said, even though what I've got isn't ideal right now, I'm not prepared to chuck money at Apple for products that are a bit of what I want and need, but not everything.

I'm sure Apple will come out with something I'm happy with soon enough, and when they do, I'll buy it. I still think that for a lot of users the Air is a misfire and you can't change my mind about that by insinuating anything personal about me, my working needs or my finances, thanks. It's as simple as that.
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post #53 of 83
The way I see it, many of (not all) the people who are complaining about the MBA are the kind of people who are used to jumping on the newest, coolest, shiniest Apple gadget as soon as it's released, and they like to be among the first to get such items; they're acting in a somewhat spoiled fashion because the MBA doesn't fit their needs and as much as they'd love to get it (to satisfy their 'new stuff' craving) they just can't justify it.

They need to recognise that the MBA (although arguably a halo product) wasn't released just to satisfy the needs of compulsive-purchasing Apple fans; it was designed to a particular brief. Like others have said: if you need more ports, or more processing power, buy the MB.

I'm sure Apple are taking comments on board and I'm sure they mulled over these compromises a thousand times before releasing it, and you might see something in the next revision that makes you change your mind about it. I don't, however, see the form factor changing.

In the meantime, constructive discussion of its shortfalls is only a good thing, but some of this whining is pretty unappealing.

I'll be looking to get one in the next revision, hopefully; I'm fully happy with my MBP at the moment (when I bought it the MBs hadn't been released) but I'm definitely looking to downsize and don't need all the ports the MBP offers, although I'll probably miss optical audio out and audio line in, i'll get over it; I'll be travelling to and from Europe on a regular basis from September (fortnightly to monthly) and the reduction in size will far outweigh the loss of those ports.

What I have conducted is simply a balancing exercise considering whether I need the functionality I will miss more than I will need the small size. I don't; I'd prefer the portability, so I'll buy one. You might not come to the same conclusion based on your needs.

In an ideal world maybe Apple would be able to custom-make a laptop enclosure as small as possible to fit a customer's given set of required computing capabilities; that is, however, not feasible for the foreseeable future and so there will always be some people who aren't catered for perfectly by their limited offerings. This is unfortunate, but you simply have to work out which model is best for you.

One of the unfortunate incidents of preferring the Mac OS is that you have to make do with what Apple offers you (OSx86 project aside); you can't make up your own hardware or find another manufacturer which suits you better. Again you simply have to make a balancing value judgement; is having the Mac OS worth the sacrifice of a machine that, hardware wise, better fulfils your needs? Or would you prefer a custom-fit PC running Windows?

Apple isn't a benevolent society, it's a for-profit company; it doesn't owe you the perfect computer. They sell their products at the prices they wish and they sink or swim depending on whether enough people buy them. They're definitely swimming at the moment.

Ben
post #54 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogue68 View Post

You can throw shade on my reasons if you like but, believe me, it's really NOT a money issue. If I wanted an Air I'd buy one, but I don't. Nor am I sufficiently enticed to buy the current MBP when a significant update is just around the corner. Please remember, none of us HAS to buy these things except for work and, as I said, even though what I've got isn't ideal right now, I'm not prepared to chuck money at Apple for products that are a bit of what I want and need, but not everything.

I'm sure Apple will come out with something I'm happy with soon enough, and when they do, I'll buy it. I still think that for a lot of users the Air is a misfire and you can't change my mind about that by insinuating anything personal about me, my working needs or my finances, thanks. It's as simple as that.

Actually, this response of yours seems very reasoned, I was more commenting on the "monkey butts" line earlier, which seemed to put you more in the camp of people going ballistic over the MBA for some unexplainable reason. My comments on money were more for the majority of complainers who seemed to want the MBA but (when you look under the complaints) found it too expensive for their pocketbooks. Work is work, and I think there are enough choices to fit pretty much anyone's needs. Seems like you know what you want, and that the next go-round will probably fill it.
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post #55 of 83
For some reason it seems to me that a lot of people feel "threatened" by the MBA..There's a lot of senseless hatred/bashing for this thing, despite the fact that every single person that owns one absolutely loves it.

Go figure, huh. lol..another case of the "have nots" wanting something so bad they have to pick apart it's shortcomings to make themselves feel better, it seems.
post #56 of 83
i want one no matter what. Just to make people jelous haha. But i gotta start saving my pennies of course!
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post #57 of 83
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Originally Posted by brianb View Post

For some reason it seems to me that a lot of people feel "threatened" by the MBA..There's a lot of senseless hatred/bashing for this thing, despite the fact that every single person that owns one absolutely loves it.

Go figure, huh. lol..another case of the "have nots" wanting something so bad they have to pick apart it's shortcomings to make themselves feel better, it seems.



That and they cannot accept that although it doesn't meet their narrow sense of needs that it is still ranked at the top of the list of Mac sales at the Apple Store and has a shipping time of 5 to 7 days, suggesting that Apple still can't make enough to meet demand. People are buying the Air, and Apple's discussion boards have yet to show many people who have regretted their purchase. The most vociferous regret was actually posted here on AI and was the result of an impulse buy that did not follow an examination of the device's capabilities and thus was a moot argument.

My broken fan aside, the MBA is the best notebook computer I have ever owned, and I have have owned a PB 3400 (1997), an iBook (2001), PB 12" (2003), PB 15 (2004), MB (2006), MBP (2007), MBA (2008), and two or three slightly different machines as I had 2 replaced after there were upgrades. Yeah, I have been around the block a few times and have a little experience under my belt. The MBA rocks.

 

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post #58 of 83
I don't think I would change anything spec-wise on the Air I think it's perfect for its target market.

The only problem I have with the MacBook Air is that I think that its price is way out at the moment it doesn't represent particularly good value for money compared to Apple's other notebook families. When you compare what you actually get with the MacBook Air as opposed to a MacBook or a MacBook Pro it's hard to justify the current price point.

I think that a lot of people are buying the MacBook Air for its coolness factor.

I suspect that a few months use will bring the realisation that a MacBook or MacBook Pro would have been a wiser choice for the majority of MacBook Air owners (but I also accept that there will be a small niche of users for whom portability is more important than anything else and they are willing to sacrifice everything else in order to achieve that).

All the MacBook Air's popularity proves is that there are a lot of people out there who are willing to pay way over the odds for something that's uber cool (basically, the luxury goods crowd). You could argue that Apple would be stupid not to take their money whilst they have the opportunity.
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post #59 of 83
has anyone else noticed that the MBA touchpad easily gives a blue screen error when in boot camp?
post #60 of 83
Don't let Windoze near any of my machines, so I couldn't tell you.

Office gives me enough headaches as it is... just had my wife's MacBook go crazy with an Excel crash that prevented a normal sleep and nearly burned the machine.

 

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post #61 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Messiah View Post

I don't think I would change anything spec-wise on the Air – I think it's perfect for its target market.

The only problem I have with the MacBook Air is that I think that its price is way out – at the moment it doesn't represent particularly good value for money compared to Apple's other notebook families. When you compare what you actually get with the MacBook Air as opposed to a MacBook or a MacBook Pro it's hard to justify the current price point.

I think that a lot of people are buying the MacBook Air for its coolness factor.

I suspect that a few months use will bring the realisation that a MacBook or MacBook Pro would have been a wiser choice for the majority of MacBook Air owners (but I also accept that there will be a small niche of users for whom portability is more important than anything else and they are willing to sacrifice everything else in order to achieve that).

All the MacBook Air's popularity proves is that there are a lot of people out there who are willing to pay way over the odds for something that's uber cool (basically, the luxury goods crowd). You could argue that Apple would be stupid not to take their money whilst they have the opportunity.

I think you've eloquently summed it up for me: the Air represents a very beautiful, very expensive way to use the internet and Microsoft Office.
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post #62 of 83
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Originally Posted by rogue68 View Post

I think you've eloquently summed it up for me: the Air represents a very beautiful, very expensive way to use the internet and Microsoft Office.

It will never end...

On an MBA, someone can use a wide variety of apps that help organize and run a business, be creative and otherwise just plain get stuff done. Last week, I used my MBA to plan my next text, down to making rough recordings on the built-in mic (I have a studio for the real deal). A presentation to my work group using the video out sealed the deal and I am almost done.

The MBA is more portable than my MBP and can fit on small coffee shop tables and therefore I tend to carry it more often and can get work done when creativity strikes. Sure beats the heck out of jotting and scribbling on paper and then re-doing everything (or even scanning) later. Normally, the initial process takes me about two weeks, but with the Air with me more of the time, I was done in less than a week and already on the next step.

People may bash the MBA, but it is a great machine that is very capable in the right hands. I wonder what other writers and professionals are doing with theirs?

Back to work...

 

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post #63 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

It will never end...

On an MBA, someone can use a wide variety of apps that help organize and run a business, be creative and otherwise just plain get stuff done. Last week, I used my MBA to plan my next text, down to making rough recordings on the built-in mic (I have a studio for the real deal). A presentation to my work group using the video out sealed the deal and I am almost done.

The MBA is more portable than my MBP and can fit on small coffee shop tables and therefore I tend to carry it more often and can get work done when creativity strikes. Sure beats the heck out of jotting and scribbling on paper and then re-doing everything (or even scanning) later. Normally, the initial process takes me about two weeks, but with the Air with me more of the time, I was done in less than a week and already on the next step.

People may bash the MBA, but it is a great machine that is very capable in the right hands. I wonder what other writers and professionals are doing with theirs?

Back to work...

Don't bother... you've tried to say it, but they're not listening. These are the people who will never buy a Ferrari, or even a Mercedes. They won't buy a Mussoni, or even an Armani, they never fly first class unless somehow they got their business (paid for by someone else) bumped up, and will never understand that lightness, thinness and, yes, style, costs. And many people find that cost to be well worth it. Plus they don't see that the MBA, especially compared to other ultra-lights, is a powerhouse that can do for most business work, let alone light music, video, etc. It ain't a Mac Pro, but then, neither is the MBP (I have both MP's and MBP's).

As for the people I know who have the MPA's -- medical student does all her work on one, CEO Fortune 500 company does deal closers, memos, email, reports (reading and writing), contracts, etc -- multi-platinum recording artist does rough tracks and quick demos when they're on the road, as well as usual email and writing, producer does deals, reads scripts, looks at financial reports, etc. And the list goes on and on. Oh, and an astronomy prof friend of mine is looking at one for when they're off doing research here and there (full sky surveys in the radio frequencies, etc) -- and thinks she'll do just fine with it -- light and more than powerful enough. She'll use the big machines elsewhere for major number crunching which NO notebook can do.

Oh, and being on a budget is not at fault here, it's just people who don't understand that certain things cost more, and are worth the cost. Believe me, the difference between a Ferrari and a Honda (and both are great cars) is well worth it (and I used to always have a Toyota while I had Ferraris, not because Ferraris are always in the shop -- not the latest ones at all -- but for things like camping, skiing, etc.). Right tool for the right job.
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post #64 of 83
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Originally Posted by mzaslove View Post

Don't bother... you've tried to say it, but they're not listening. These are the people who will never buy a Ferrari, or even a Mercedes. They won't buy a Mussoni, or even an Armani, they never fly first class unless somehow they got their business (paid for by someone else) bumped up, and will never understand that lightness, thinness and, yes, style, costs. And many people find that cost to be well worth it. Plus they don't see that the MBA, especially compared to other ultra-lights, is a powerhouse that can do for most business work, let alone light music, video, etc. It ain't a Mac Pro, but then, neither is the MBP (I have both MP's and MBP's).

As for the people I know who have the MPA's -- medical student does all her work on one, CEO Fortune 500 company does deal closers, memos, email, reports (reading and writing), contracts, etc -- multi-platinum recording artist does rough tracks and quick demos when they're on the road, as well as usual email and writing, producer does deals, reads scripts, looks at financial reports, etc. And the list goes on and on. Oh, and an astronomy prof friend of mine is looking at one for when they're off doing research here and there (full sky surveys in the radio frequencies, etc) -- and thinks she'll do just fine with it -- light and more than powerful enough. She'll use the big machines elsewhere for major number crunching which NO notebook can do.

Oh, and being on a budget is not at fault here, it's just people who don't understand that certain things cost more, and are worth the cost. Believe me, the difference between a Ferrari and a Honda (and both are great cars) is well worth it (and I used to always have a Toyota while I had Ferraris, not because Ferraris are always in the shop -- not the latest ones at all -- but for things like camping, skiing, etc.). Right tool for the right job.


Yep. Even when the right tool's a Ferrari with a Honda under the bonnet

I wish some of those saying how great the Air is didn't feel the need to bolster their case by implying those of us who think it's a bad deal can't afford one when the simple truth is it doesn't meet our needs.
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post #65 of 83
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Originally Posted by rogue68 View Post

Yep. Even when the right tool's a Ferrari with a Honda under the bonnet

I wish some of those saying how great the Air is didn't feel the need to bolster their case by implying those of us who think it's a bad deal can't afford one when the simple truth is it doesn't meet our needs.

I don't think "it doesn't meet our needs" has ever been the question; there seems to be a lot of real ire against the MBA because it doesn't fit some people's needs, where an MB or MBP will. And a lot of it seems to be that it's "too expensive" for what it is. If people just said "not for me," there wouldn't be this "bolster" (which I don't agree there is) -- but so many non-users of it are saying how truly awful it is (in rather mix-ed up manners), yet those who own them all seem to like them (even Bergermeister who had a fan go on his). So the one-sided complaining is what's being responded to... and to my eye, most of the complainers simply can't understand why something that is expensive can still be good. I bring up Ferraris only because it's an extreme example. I got a lot of people lusting after mine, while backhandedly trying to insult me for how expensive they were.

Oh, and how dare you put a Honda engine under the hood... it was always Fords (I believe) under those fiberglass Daytona bodies in Miami Vice. Blasphemy!
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post #66 of 83
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Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Get over yourself, I never insulted anyone, it was merely a bit of sarcasm.

Riiiight. Just more of the same from you Ireland.
post #67 of 83
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Originally Posted by mzaslove View Post

Odd, the MBP's are hardly "bulky" (especially compared to all the other power notebooks out there), and the MBA is hardly "crippled."

Heh...the 17" is rather bulky and if I were buying today I'd get a MBA. It certainly isn't crippled in comparison to some of the alternatives and is suitable for many pro users.
post #68 of 83
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Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Heh...the 17" is rather bulky and if I were buying today I'd get a MBA. It certainly isn't crippled in comparison to some of the alternatives and is suitable for many pro users.

I was more thinking of those giant, thick monstrosities from many a PC company. I booked all over Iceland and the British Isles for a year (working on a series and meeting various people in companies I'd worked with but never actually met in London and Ireland) with my 17" PB, and it never felt that big, but a friend had some giant HP (I think) and he was always complaining. I laughed. A lot. But I do find my 15" MBP sleeker.
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post #69 of 83
What I think mzaslove and Bergermeister are trying to say is this: If you look over the MacBook, MacBook Air, and MacBook Pro, and you decide that the MBA is not for you, that's fine. No one is forcing you to buy it, and you've lost nothing for it's introduction into the Apple lineup.

The consumer's MacBook is still there. The professional's MacBook Pro is still there. Whether you find it a good buy or not, MORE options is ALWAYS better. People have complained since the beginning of time that Apple doesn't try to represent all the various markets, and when they add a totally new machine to cater to a market that has been relatively ignored since the PowerBook 1400, now they get chastised for it? To constantly talk it down is to say that it's not a good machine, and there is absolutely no reason to try to cast an actively negative light on it when it doesn't affect you at all. If you don't like what the MBA has to offer, pass it by and keep on looking. But don't try to make it look bad in an effort to dissuade others from buying it, others who may be just as happy with one as Bergermeister is with his.
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post #70 of 83
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Originally Posted by mzaslove View Post

I was more thinking of those giant, thick monstrosities from many a PC company. I booked all over Iceland and the British Isles for a year (working on a series and meeting various people in companies I'd worked with but never actually met in London and Ireland) with my 17" PB, and it never felt that big, but a friend had some giant HP (I think) and he was always complaining. I laughed. A lot. But I do find my 15" MBP sleeker.

I can't get my 17" to fit certain things. Normal laptop cases, hotel safes, etc. So its not BULKY bulky as in thickness it is still rather large. Now I knew this and got it for giving demos with the screen real estate but honestly the 15" would have been better.

Now I can get away with just an Air but my replacement cycle isn't up yet.
post #71 of 83
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Originally Posted by vinea View Post

I can't get my 17" to fit certain things. Normal laptop cases, hotel safes, etc. So its not BULKY bulky as in thickness it is still rather large. Now I knew this and got it for giving demos with the screen real estate but honestly the 15" would have been better.

Now I can get away with just an Air but my replacement cycle isn't up yet.

Never thought about hotel safes. I get all my cases from Acme, so I'm not sure about that. I still like that 17"er, though. But I don't miss much with the 15" oddly enough. MBA when I have to travel a lot next year.
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post #72 of 83
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Originally Posted by Karelia View Post

What I think mzaslove and Bergermeister are trying to say is this: If you look over the MacBook, MacBook Air, and MacBook Pro, and you decide that the MBA is not for you, that's fine. No one is forcing you to buy it, and you've lost nothing for it's introduction into the Apple lineup.

This is very much true and frankly it wasn't easy to go up a model to the MBP in my case. Percentage wise it isn't a lot more money, but mentally it is. The trade off of course is the additional capability.

Many people seem to fly off the handle when it is suggested that the AIR is a limited capability machine. I don't really know why as it is obvious. What I do know is that the AIR is a very frustrating machine to look at in the store, for want of a couple of ports I'd have one today.
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The consumer's MacBook is still there. The professional's MacBook Pro is still there. Whether you find it a good buy or not, MORE options is ALWAYS better.

This is very true indeed and frankly I wish Apple would get a Rev 2 out of AIR that gives us a few more options to choose from.
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People have complained since the beginning of time that Apple doesn't try to represent all the various markets, and when they add a totally new machine to cater to a market that has been relatively ignored since the PowerBook 1400, now they get chastised for it?

They get chastised for coming real close to making a very desirable machine but for want of design winning over function they produced a highly limited machine.
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To constantly talk it down is to say that it's not a good machine, and there is absolutely no reason to try to cast an actively negative light on it when it doesn't affect you at all.

I hope you are not equating pointing out real limitations on a device to casting a negative light upon it. The AIR is an interesting machine from the engineering standpoint, no body can argue against that. What people need to know though when looking at the different models is that in many ways it will be outperformed by cheaper hardware from Apple.
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If you don't like what the MBA has to offer, pass it by and keep on looking. But don't try to make it look bad in an effort to dissuade others from buying it, others who may be just as happy with one as Bergermeister is with his.

One has an obligation to his fellow man to point out the limitations of a device that he is inquiring about. Many of us wold like to avoid ever falling into the mold of a used car salesman. Being honest about how you fell about something is the best way to keep your integrity intact. In any event I don't think highlighting limitations is trying to dissuade anybody from Buying AIR, it is just giving them a perspective that they can check against their own realities.

Air is not a bad machine as much as it is a frustrating machine. Frustrating in that it doesn't have quite the I/O to be truly versatile. Frustrating in that is priced significantly higher than machines with more capability. Frustrating in that the very same shell that it is in now could have offered up more capability and significantly more with a little work on the case. Could Apple eliminate these frustrations in a Rev2, certainly they could but now I have a MBP there is less of a chance of me buying one in the near future, which is more frustrating.

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post #73 of 83
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Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Air is not a bad machine as much as it is a frustrating machine.

Dave

Dave, I feel your frustration too. I am almost in the market for a new portable and there are things I love about the Air, but I can't see myself spending that amount for what I would end up with. I suspect that I am exactly like you in that regard.
But, though you were very reasonable (unlike others) in your explanation, I find your complaints even more frustrating in what they don't see/acknowledge.

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Frustrating in that it doesn't have quite the I/O to be truly versatile.

The Air's main purpose--its reason for being brought into the world--is to be sleek and very portable. Everyone keeps saying it, but those that don't say it don't seem to hear it. It is not supposed to be a versatile machine. That is what the MB and MBP are for. Versatility would increase size and/or cost. Neither of those options is acceptable.

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Frustrating in that is priced significantly higher than machines with more capability.

With the Air, you are paying for thin and light--not for capability. It is an unavoidable fact that thin and light cost extra. Otherwise every laptop would be sleek and light and you would have a point.

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Frustrating in that the very same shell that it is in now could have offered up more capability and significantly more with a little work on the case.

Well, I am not an engineer. But I have to assume that the engineers at Apple know that people like large HDs and faster processors. And USB ports. And Mac people love their Firewire. And an Express card slot would be cool. And... ...where does it end? You know what I am going to say: MB or MBP.
Now, I am being a bit disengenuous here, because I know you don't want ALL that. But I have been led to believe that any extra features would have forced an increase in size--even a single extra USB slot would necessitate internal controlers and such that would not fit in the present case. The question then becomes what ONE thing do you want to add that is worth a little more size/weight? Is it ths same ONE thing that everybody else who is unhappy with the Air wants? No. To satisfy many more people the size and weight would have to increase not insignificantly, thus turning off the original targeted users of the Air--those who want sleek and light and are willing to pay for it despite the power limitations.

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Could Apple eliminate these frustrations in a Rev2, certainly they could but now I have a MBP there is less of a chance of me buying one in the near future, which is more frustrating.

This is where I feel you the most. Like I said at the beginning, I would love to have an Air. If only it had a little more ooomph. When I buy, it is going to have to last me a while (I'm on a TiBook now and my previous laptop was a PB 160) and I know that in a year or two it is possible that the Air 2.0 will be all I ever wanted and yet out of reach. What frustrates me is not that Apple didn't try hard enough--I am glad that they are putting their efforts into small--but that what I want doesn't exist: Small, light, powerfull and affordable.
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post #74 of 83
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Originally Posted by WelshDog View Post

The Air fits my needs perfectly. And maybe it won't roast my grapes like the PB does.

If you're need for an MBA is predicated on visions of surfing the internet while watching 4 tivos for fun with your wife, your grapes might already be roasted


On a less biting note, the Mac Book Air is for you if you meet two of the following requirements:
1) you have money
2) you need a laptop
3) you are lazy*

* If you both have money and are lazy, you likely did not earn said money. In any case, Steve Jobs will gladly take it.
post #75 of 83
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Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Many people seem to fly off the handle when it is suggested that the AIR is a limited capability machine. I don't really know why as it is obvious. What I do know is that the AIR is a very frustrating machine to look at in the store, for want of a couple of ports I'd have one today.

Few are the people who find the perfect notebook for themselves. You always have to compromise. There's a golden rule with computers. They are one or two (but never all) of the following three: powerful, affordable, and mobile. The iMac is powerful and affordable, but not mobile. The MacBook is affordable and mobile, but not as powerful. The MacBook Pro is powerful and mobile, but not easily affordable.

The MacBook Air is similar to the Mac Mini and Mac Pro in that it breaks from that triangle. The Mini is not powerful nor mobile, but is doubly affordable when compared to other Macs. The Mac Pro is not easily affordable nor mobile. but is doubly powerful in return. The MacBook Air completes this pattern, in that it is not exceptionally powerful nor affordable, but is doubly mobile.

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Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

They get chastised for coming real close to making a very desirable machine but for want of design winning over function they produced a highly limited machine.

Even crap on a stick, as long as it doesn't take away from the others in the lineup, is an addition to the options. If even one person finds the MacBook Air to be a perfect match, why not? That's one person that didn't have to settle for a MacBook or MacBook Pro, while no one lost the opportunity to buy those machines.

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Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

I hope you are not equating pointing out real limitations on a device to casting a negative light upon it. The AIR is an interesting machine from the engineering standpoint, no body can argue against that. What people need to know though when looking at the different models is that in many ways it will be outperformed by cheaper hardware from Apple.

No I wouldn't imply that, and pointing out flaws is one thing, but some people (not dropping names) have taken this too far, and have decided to essentially attack the machine for not being what they expected/predicted/got their hopes up for, regardless of it's own unique strengths.

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Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

One has an obligation to his fellow man to point out the limitations of a device that he is inquiring about. Many of us wold like to avoid ever falling into the mold of a used car salesman. Being honest about how you fell about something is the best way to keep your integrity intact. In any event I don't think highlighting limitations is trying to dissuade anybody from Buying AIR, it is just giving them a perspective that they can check against their own realities.

Telling someone to, for instance, "take into account this and that before you buy" is perfectly acceptable, and generally even helpful. But I see a lot of "it's underpowered" and "it doesn't have enough X or Y" or other such things. It must be kept in mind that the value of a computer is a completely subjective thing. One person's perfect computer may be another's last choice. So keep in mind that no matter what your qualms are with a machine, someone else can look past those because of it's other strengths. And this validates it as much as, if not more, than the arguments of those that don't like it detract from it.

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Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Air is not a bad machine as much as it is a frustrating machine. Frustrating in that it doesn't have quite the I/O to be truly versatile. Frustrating in that is priced significantly higher than machines with more capability. Frustrating in that the very same shell that it is in now could have offered up more capability and significantly more with a little work on the case. Could Apple eliminate these frustrations in a Rev2, certainly they could but now I have a MBP there is less of a chance of me buying one in the near future, which is more frustrating.

Again, subjective arguments. I'd point you to Bergermeister for a first-hand opinion on it's versatility, but I think you and I both know where he stands.

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Originally Posted by Bageljoey View Post

This is where I feel you the most. Like I said at the beginning, I would love to have an Air. If only it had a little more ooomph. When I buy, it is going to have to last me a while (I'm on a TiBook now and my previous laptop was a PB 160) and I know that in a year or two it is possible that the Air 2.0 will be all I ever wanted and yet out of reach. What frustrates me is not that Apple didn't try hard enough--I am glad that they are putting their efforts into small--but that what I want doesn't exist: Small, light, powerfull and affordable.

That, my friend, is called the Holy Grail.

...and you waited until the TiBook to move up from a 160? I don't envy your Y2K.
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post #76 of 83
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Originally Posted by Karelia View Post

Even crap on a stick, as long as it doesn't take away from the others in the lineup, is an addition to the options. If even one person finds the MacBook Air to be a perfect match, why not? That's one person that didn't have to settle for a MacBook or MacBook Pro, while no one lost the opportunity to buy those machines.

Ah, but those of us hoping to buy a 12" or 13" MBP have lost the opportunity to buy those machines, because instead of the much requested 12" or 13" MBP Apple have given us the Air, which is, functionally, a very poor substitution. Crap on a stick indeed.
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post #77 of 83
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Originally Posted by rogue68 View Post

Ah, but those of us hoping to buy a 12" or 13" MBP have lost the opportunity to buy those machines, because instead of the much requested 12" or 13" MBP Apple have given us the Air, which is, functionally, a very poor substitution.

it was never intended to be so.
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post #78 of 83
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Originally Posted by sennen View Post

it was never intended to be so.

But its introduction means we're very unlikely to see another 12 inch MBP in the near future. Therefore, as an addition to the line-up it's also a part-substitution for something that was there before and many hoped would be again.
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post #79 of 83
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Originally Posted by rogue68 View Post

But its introduction means we're very unlikely to see another 12 inch MBP in the near future. Therefore, as an addition to the line-up it's also a part-substitution for something that was there before and many hoped would be again.

i honestly believe that the missing firewire (as much as the integrated graphics) on the MBA means it is definitely not intended to be any kind of substitute for the 12" PB whatsoever. they completely different machines, with different price points, for completely different purposes and different markets.
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post #80 of 83
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Originally Posted by sennen View Post

i honestly believe that the missing firewire (as much as the integrated graphics) on the MBA means it is definitely not intended to be any kind of substitute for the 12" PB whatsoever. they completely different machines, with different price points, for completely different purposes and different markets.

I hope you're right, but I'm not so certain.
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