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Citigroup: Checks point to 3G iPhone within four months

post #1 of 207
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Following overseas meetings with members of the Taiwanese PC and consumer electronics supply chain, analysts for investment bank Citigroup said they have high convictions that Apple intends to roll out a 3G iPhone during the second quarter of the year.

"Several sources confirmed the introduction of a new 3G iPhone during [the second calendar quarter]," analyst Rich Garder wrote in an industry news flash bulletin distributed to clients on Tuesday. "While iPhone and iPod units may disappoint again during [the first calendar quarter], we remain comfortable with our above-consensus EPS estimate thanks to solid PC momentum and sharp declines in DRAM and NAND pricing."

The Citigroup analyst also noted that macroeconomic concerns appear to have had no impact on industry-wide notebook build orders, which remain consistent with normal seasonal patterns.

He added that, "Several vendors, including HP and Acer, appear poised to introduce new low-priced notebook models in [the second calendar quarter] with retail prices as low as $300-$400."

Separately on Tuesday, Caris & Co. analyst Shebly Seyrafi issued a note to clients maintaining his Above Average rating on Apple but cutting his price target on shares of the company from $165 to $155, reflecting lower iPhone and iPod orders, as well as perceived weakness in consumer spending.

He also issued reductions to both his fiscal 2008 and fiscal 2009 iPhone and iPod unit estimates. iPhone expectations were cut from 11.7 million and 22.3 million to 8.9 million and 17.7 million, respectively, while iPod units were trimmed from 54.6 million and 61.2 million to 52.1 million and 57.3 million.

For calendar year 2008, Seyrafi still expects Apple to meet its goal of selling 10 million iPhones, but said it's unlikely that the company will apply any sizable near-term pressure to the industry's more established players.

"This Thursday [...] Apple will be discussing its SDK (software development kit) roadmap and will be discussing some enterprise features. The SDK may allow more enterprise applications (from the likes of IBM, Oracle, and Saleforce.com, for example) to be used on the iPhone," he wrote. "Still, we think that the enterprise smartphone market will, for the foreseeable future, be dominated by RIMM and Nokia."
post #2 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Appleinsider

Separately on Tuesday, Caris & Co. analyst Shebly Seyrafi issued a note to clients maintaining his Above Average rating on Apple but cutting his price target on shares of the company from $165 to $155, reflecting lower iPhone and iPod orders, as well as perceived weakness in consumer spending.

He also issued reductions to both his fiscal 2008 and fiscal 2009 iPhone and iPod unit estimates. iPhone expectations were cut from 11.7 million and 22.3 million to 8.9 million and 17.7 million, respectively, while iPod units were trimmed from 54.6 million and 61.2 million to 52.1 million and 57.3 million.


Ouch. Stevie, 3G iPhone... STAT!!! \

Very preferably with MMS, video capture, voice dialing, etc. included. Y'know, all the good stuff that el cheapo cellphones now have on them standard.

Plus, throw on the kind of camera that users expect a high-end phone to have. After all, its supposed to be a multifunction device, not a "Well, just get a separate camera if you want to take good pictures" device.



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post #3 of 207
I'll be on that line!
post #4 of 207
What dates define the 2nd quarter? Could this Thursday's SDK meeting actually be the one where we see the 2nd gen. iphone?
post #5 of 207
Please "financial" institutions, please come out with more late breaking 3G iPhone news close to stock market closing, as to bump up AAPL by two or three bucks a day and within a month, we can get the stock back to $199.00 - said "tongue in cheek"!

Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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post #6 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by freethinker View Post

What dates define the 2nd quarter?

Article says second calendar quarter, so April 1 - June 30.



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post #7 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

Article says second calendar quarter, so April 1 - June 30.



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The month of MAY - according to this guy...http://blogs.computerworld.com/3g_iphone_best_guesses

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post #8 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rot'nApple View Post

The month of MAY - according to this guy...http://blogs.computerworld.com/3g_iphone_best_guesses

Jeez louise!! I really hope Apple breaks away from At&t on the next iphone iteration. $20/30 rate hike per month? Is that following precedent for 3g phones?
post #9 of 207
"Still, we think that the enterprise smartphone market will, for the foreseeable future, be dominated by RIMM and Nokia."

How much do they pay these guys, again? I gotta get a job like this.
post #10 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

Ouch. Stevie, 3G iPhone... STAT!!! \

Very preferably with MMS, video capture, voice dialing, etc. included. Y'know, all the good stuff that el cheapo cellphones now have on them standard.

Plus, throw on the kind of camera that users expect a high-end phone to have. After all, its supposed to be a multifunction device, not a "Well, just get a separate camera if you want to take good pictures" device.

But there aren't any phones with good cameras, except the few which more or less started out as something like a pocket camera but had a phone grafted onto it. The pictures I see of most "5MP" cameras show considerably less detail, look flatter and exhibit higher noise than my 3MP pocket camera.
post #11 of 207
Quote:
Ouch. Stevie, 3G iPhone... STAT!!!

How does that help the iPod which account for a much much larger percentage of Apple's revenue and received the larger cut in sales estimates.

Quote:
Plus, throw on the kind of camera that users expect a high-end phone to have. After all, its supposed to be a multifunction device, not a "Well, just get a separate camera if you want to take good pictures" device.

The most effective way to improve the usability of the camera is to use a better lens and improve the analog to digital processing. Which will improve the dynamic range and low light capability. But to improve these aspects requires more electronics and a larger lens. Which means a larger phone and more battery drain.
post #12 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by 801 View Post

"Still, we think that the enterprise smartphone market will, for the foreseeable future, be dominated by RIMM and Nokia."

How much do they pay these guys, again? I gotta get a job like this.

Is Nokia really much of a player in that business? I thought it was mostly RIMM and anyone else is just picking up scraps.
post #13 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

But there aren't any phones with good cameras, except the few which more or less started out as something like a pocket camera but had a phone grafted onto it. The pictures I see of most "5MP" cameras show considerably less detail, look flatter and exhibit higher noise than my 3MP pocket camera.

Again, I want the SDK to support peripherals via the docking connector.
- High quality camera snap-on with its own battery, zoom and flash. I don't care if it looks stupid or a little bulky. I want the hardware to be best in class, and controlled by the iPhone/touch.
- ditto high quality sound recording.
- keyboard/port expander.

I want the iPhone/touch to be the hub of my digital swiss army knife.
post #14 of 207
Stop it with the 3G predictions. Its not coming yet. The focus will be on getting the SDK ready and good. No 3G until FY09. We will have new apps this year only. After the OS/iPhone delays of last year, I don't' think apple the human resources yet to work all the products everyone is thinking they are making. Additionally, we are not going to have new hardware designs for a while. Change is not/well not happen as fast and the analyst say.


I say this hoping I will be wrong. But i really think the Analyst push the change a little to fast. All it does is push the stock up only for a big let down on what is really good (but lest than analyst expected) news.
post #15 of 207
Quote:
Stop it with the 3G predictions. Its not coming yet. The focus will be on getting the SDK ready and good. No 3G until FY09.

3G will be this year. Apple needs a major iPhone refresh to meet the 10 million goal.
post #16 of 207
:d:d:d
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post #17 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

3G will be this year. Apple needs a major iPhone refresh to meet the 10 million goal.


Whoa... for once I totally agree with you.

Definitely a nice change from your past, '3G doesn't matter that much' and 'Apple can wait 2 years [from the US iPhone launch] to go 3G' stances.

What finally brought you around?



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post #18 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rot'nApple View Post

The month of MAY - according to this guy...http://blogs.computerworld.com/3g_iphone_best_guesses

Meh... I HOPE it's May (or even sooner), but Weintraub's just guessing, like everyone else. My own prediction has been June for quite some time, at that's with me being cautiously optimistic. \

Still, I did like what Weintraub said elsewhere. He seems to 'get' the situation pretty well:

The EDGE-speed iPhone is accepted in the US because 3G is just being built out and frankly Americans don't know what they are missing. However, in Europe, the lack of 3G access is a much bigger issue. We know that the iPhone isn't meeting European sales expectations largely because of its lack of 3G data access (also because people are bringing them over from the US unlocked). If Apple thought it could coast by on EDGE in Europe, it was mistaken. Therefore, it needs to start selling the 3G version there ASAP.


Well said, Seth. Now we just need that crazy 3G iPhone ASAP.

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post #19 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

But there aren't any phones with good cameras, except the few which more or less started out as something like a pocket camera but had a phone grafted onto it. The pictures I see of most "5MP" cameras show considerably less detail, look flatter and exhibit higher noise than my 3MP pocket camera.


I dunno Jeff... there's some Nokias out there with 5MP cameras and Carl Zeiss lenses. Presumably they take a pretty good pic.

You may say, "Yeah... for a cellphone", but if that's what the high-end market wants, I think you give it to them. After all, one of the complaints of the Euros is that the iPhone's camera (2.0 MP) isn't competitive. Heck, it doesn't even do video capture. Even cheap cellphones have that these days.

I just think its funny when Apple's own iPhone commercials tout how great it is to have everything in one device, and yet some ppl still argue that it's okay for the iPhone to not be good at certain things because ppl will just carry along another device to perform those functions. Obviously, not everyone is on the same page here.


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post #20 of 207
Is it just me, or does anyone else think that Apple could surprise everyone and not actually release a 3G version of the iPhone, but rather an add-on that allows for 3G communications (via the doc-connector) for the current iPhone.

Probably not, but I just find it hard to believe that they're gonna roll out the iPhone across Europe, only to release an updated version within a few months. Also, by doing it this way - they could sell to the millions of iPhone users already out there, who would surely gladly upgrade... makes more sense, no?

Maybe Steve will announce it on Thurs... yeah, just before he gets on his pig and flies home \
post #21 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

How does that help the iPod which account for a much much larger percentage of Apple's revenue and received the larger cut in sales estimates.

Why would 3G iPhone sales have to help the iPod to make Apple's bottom line significantly better? The iPhone by itself has a significant impact on Apple's bottom line, accounting for around $1 billion in revenue in calendar Q4... 2.3 mil iPhones sold at 400+ bucks a pop, (Euro selling prices were higher), and Apple of course gets a small amt of monthly revenue from ATT.

This $1 billion is out of $9.6 billion in total Apple revenues for the quarter, so the iPhone is around 10% of revenue... and that's with the iPhone in its infancy. Some have said it's only 3%, but I don't see where they get a number that low from. Odd.

Now add to this that the investor-frenzy around the stock when it got run up to $200+ was in large part due to the 'iPhone growth story' (and much of the recent stock pullback has been due to said growth story looking less rosy), and you begin to to get the idea.


Quote:
The most effective way to improve the usability of the camera is to use a better lens and improve the analog to digital processing. Which will improve the dynamic range and low light capability. But to improve these aspects requires more electronics and a larger lens. Which means a larger phone and more battery drain.

You may be worrying overmuch. The new Broadcom chip that Apple will allegedly be using for the 3G iPhone supports up to a 5.0 megapixel camera... AND video capture!(about time). All within a footprint that is quite reasonable, both in power and size:

http://db.tidbits.com/article/9239


The nice thing is that that brings the iPhone camera on par with its high-end competitors in Europe... assuming Apple doesn't completely cheap out on the lens. Or somehow strangely decides not to take full advantage of the features of the Broadcom chip that its apparently been waiting for for so long. \


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post #22 of 207
There's no such thing as a phone with a good camera. You can have phones that have the ability to take cute, one-off pics that are ok to share with others via MMS or a fun "spur of the moment" thing, but please, don't try and tell me a camera phone will ever, ever approach any kind of regular camera, let alone a DSLR.

Now the fact that there's a lens made by Carl Zeiss is nice, but it still get over the fact that for decent photos, you need lots of glass. And it's PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE to get good photos with tiny amounts of glass; this isn't some technical limitation, this is a physical, universal constant that has to do with the way light works. Oh yes, you can pump up the low light performance with various tricks, but you invariably introduce noise.

So yes, "good for a camera phone" will most likely always be around as a lens qualifier.
post #23 of 207
Quote:
Whoa... for once I totally agree with you.

Definitely a nice change from your past, '3G doesn't matter that much' and 'Apple can wait 2 years [from the US iPhone launch] to go 3G' stances.

What finally brought you around?

I never said I thought Apple would wait 2 years. I speculated why they would. But I do understand some things now, I did not understand as well last year.

The reason why its clear Apple will refresh the iPhone this year. Other mobile phone manufacturers don't necessarily have a high degree loyalty to any one handset they make. They are willing to throw a variety of handsets into the market with various features and various price points to see which one will stick. If one isn't selling well they are willing to throw a new one out there.

The iPhone is Apple's only mobile product so it needs to be aggressively updated to compete with the hundreds of competitors on the market.

Quote:
I dunno Jeff... there's some Nokias out there with 5MP cameras and Carl Zeiss lenses. Presumably they take a pretty good pic.

Placing Carl Zeiss on a camera phone is more marketing fluff than anything. There isn't much Zeiss can do better than others with such a tiny lens.

Quote:
You may say, "Yeah... for a cellphone", but if that's what the high-end market wants, I think you give it to them. After all, one of the complaints of the Euros is that the iPhone's camera (2.0 MP) isn't competitive.

Any one who looks at megpixels as the sole measurement of camera capability have no true understanding of how digital cameras work.

Quote:
Why would 3G iPhone sales have to help the iPod to make Apple's bottom line significantly better? This $1 billion is out of $9.6 billion in total Apple revenues for the quarter, so the iPhone is more than 10% of revenue Some have said its only 3%, but I don't see where they get a number that low from. Odd.


You are confused because you have a one track mind. 3G won't help the iPod at all. iPod sales forecast will impact the stock more than the iPhone or 3G.

Last quarter the iPod accounted for 42% of Apple's revenue. The iPod Touch costs about the same as the iPhone and will far outsell the iPhone. These are critically important sales.

Some calculated iPhone revenue at 3% because we have a better idea of how much Apple made from sales of the device. Its only speculation how much Apple has made from carrier revenue sharing.

Quote:
You may be worrying overmuch. The new Broadcom chip that Apple will allegedly be using for the 3G iPhone supports up to a 5.0 megapixel camera... AND video capture!(about time). All within a footprint that is quite reasonable, both in size and power:

One chip will not be able to produce the dynamic range and sharpness that the electronics in a dedicated point and shoot is able to produce.
post #24 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by lidofido View Post

So yes, "good for a camera phone" will most likely always be around as a qualifier.


I agree. And 'good for a [high-end] camera phone' is all Apple really needs to do, overall. The problem is, they haven't done even that thus far.


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post #25 of 207
citigroup analyst may have a new boss or citigroup will go of business, did he analyze that??

http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Stor...8916D529B7B%7D

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080304/citigroup.html?.v=6

i bet apple will exceed estimates and citgroup will exceed loss
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post #26 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

I dunno Jeff... there's some Nokias out there with 5MP cameras and Carl Zeiss lenses. Presumably they take a pretty good pic.

Paper specs mean nothing. The actual image means more. "Presumably" means nothing. Sony slaps Zeiss lenses on a lot of their products, but that alone doesn't make the product any good.

Quote:
You may say, "Yeah... for a cellphone", but if that's what the high-end market wants, I think you give it to them. After all, one of the complaints of the Euros is that the iPhone's camera (2.0 MP) isn't competitive.

You can give the market big megapixels in a phone, but that's still not giving the market a good camera. More would actually be worse for most phones.
post #27 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by freethinker View Post

What dates define the 2nd quarter? Could this Thursday's SDK meeting actually be the one where we see the 2nd gen. iphone?

april 1 starts my corps 2nd quarter july the 3rd oct the 4th
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post #28 of 207
I don't think we will see 3G phone this year, maybe at Macworld 2009 when they have nothing else to offer for the current model. The current iPhone still new at 6 months old, they could achieve better sales by focusing on the SDK.

The problem with cell phone cameras is the lack of flash/light. My iPhone pictures look great outdoors at daytime. I have seen pictures taken with "other" 5MP cell phone cameras and they have the same problems. Phone cameras are never designed to replace real cameras when you travel or go sightseeing.

I really don't like MMS. However, MMS is basically a software update. I have seen many MMS softwares for the iPhone online (You have to hack your phone to install though).
post #29 of 207
Quote:
I don't think we will see 3G phone this year, maybe at Macworld 2009 when they have nothing else to offer for the current model. The current iPhone still new at 6 months old, they could achieve better sales by focusing on the SDK.

Six months is old in the mobile phone business. Every 3 to 6 months Nokia, Samsung, RIM, SE, LG, HTC are all barraging the market with new phones. All of these phones either reduce in cost over time or are being sold for free with contract. The iPhone must be aggressively updated to continue selling at a premium price.
post #30 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Six months is old in the mobile phone business. Every 3 to 6 months Nokia, Samsung, RIM, SE, LG, HTC are all barraging the market with new phones. All of these phones either reduce in cost over time or are being sold for free with contract. The iPhone must be aggressively updated to continue selling at a premium price.

However, Apple is not a phone company and all of these companies have big collection of phones ranging from basic phones to smart phones. For them to stay in business they have to compete with each other by throwing in features and frequent new phone. Apple spent almost 2 years to develop the current iPhone, they will not upgrade that fast. Beside, Apple seem to be very satisfied with sales figures so far (locked or unlocked). As someone pointed out in earlier post, they just released iPhone in Europe and maybe Asia in the next 2 months and releasing the 3G will cause the same reaction Apple got when they lowered the price $200 last year.

The iPhone strength comes from software updates not hardware. The reason others do unit update more often is because they cannot update the OS like Apple without updating the hardware.
post #31 of 207
they will upgrade, granted more slowly than the all things to all people manufacturers BUT will upgrade aggressively enough not to lose momentum. remember apple has other profit lines and SJ is developing a "platform" SJ knows how to maintain momentum
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post #32 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

However, Apple is not a phone company and all of these companies have big collection of phones ranging from basic phones to smart phones. For them to stay in business they have to compete with each other by throwing in features and frequent new phone. Apple spent almost 2 years to develop the current iPhone, they will not upgrade that fast. Beside, Apple seem to be very satisfied with sales figures so far (locked or unlocked). As someone pointed out in earlier post, they just released iPhone in Europe and maybe Asia in the next 2 months and releasing the 3G will cause the same reaction Apple got when they lowered the price $200 last year.

Nah, we're used to new phones every few months in Europe. The N95 for instance has had at least 3 revisions since launch and they've released at least a half dozen more phones since then. There's always a new model a month or so after you buy yours...unless you buy an iPhone.

Sales in Europe have been poor by comparison to the USA so for Apple's sake alone they need an update.


Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

The iPhone strength comes from software updates not hardware. The reason others do unit update more often is because they cannot update the OS like Apple without updating the hardware.

Bullshit. Both Sony and Nokia have update services that update the phones over the air or via a PC/Mac. Generally it's just to fix bugs though, not add features that they didn't managed to finish before initial release.


The point about the camera in phones not being good is irrelevant. It only has to be on par with other phone cameras and you know nothing about photography if you think Apple's 2.0mp dinky toy lens and no flash is even close to being on par with even old trusty phones like the SE K800 or pretty much any 2 year old Nokia/SE. Then it's passable for a point-and-shoot snapper, which is what most people are happy with anyway.
post #33 of 207
Quote:
However, Apple is not a phone company and all of these companies have big collection of phones ranging from basic phones to smart phones.

The iPhone is competing directly with these companies. Their new phones add capabilities more on par with the iPhone.

Quote:
The iPhone strength comes from software updates not hardware. The reason others do unit update more often is because they cannot update the OS like Apple without updating the hardware.

Software updates cannot improve everything. Hardware needs to keep getting better too.


Quote:
The point about the camera in phones not being good is irrelevant. It only has to be on par with other phone cameras and you know nothing about photography if you think Apple's 2.0mp dinky toy lens and no flash is even close to being on par with even old trusty phones like the SE K800 or pretty much any 2 year old Nokia/SE. Then it's passable for a point-and-shoot snapper, which is what most people are happy with anyway.

No one argued the iPhone's camera was great. We're actually saying its mediocre in an over all pretty mediocre category.

Phones with better cameras have to then sacrifice other features. Slower processor, smaller screen, less internal storage, bulkier or heavier dimensions. As Jeff stated earlier some of these phones are basically a point and shoot with a phone grafted on the back.
post #34 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

No one argued the iPhone's camera was great. We're actually saying its mediocre in an over all pretty mediocre category.

Phones with better cameras have to then sacrifice other features. Slower processor, smaller screen, less internal storage, bulkier or heavier dimensions. As Jeff stated earlier some of these phones are basically a point and shoot with a phone grafted on the back.

Huh? The iphone is a BIG phone by comparison to other phones already. It's surely got room for a better camera and a flash. How much room do you think these things take up these days?

Go look at a Nokia 6500 classic. It's only a 2mp camera so that's going to win points with those of you in denial but the phone is 3G, has a flash, is 9.5mm thin and gets 5+ hours talk time. Built like it's made out of solid metal too - nearly bought one last week. Takes pretty reasonable shots too. It's almost as small as my previous gen iPod Nano and I can use it as a 3G modem unlike the iPhone.
post #35 of 207
Quote:
Bullshit. Both Sony and Nokia have update services that update the phones over the air or via a PC/Mac. Generally it's just to fix bugs though, not add features that they didn't managed to finish before initial release

Thank you. You prove my point "to fix bugs".

Quote:
t only has to be on par with other phone cameras and you know nothing about photography if you think Apple's 2.0mp dinky toy lens and no flash is even close to being on par with even old trusty phones like the SE K800 or pretty much any 2 year old Nokia/SE

It seems you are the one who knows nothing about photography. My 5 years old Fujifilm 2.1MP camera make pictures better than some of the available 5MP cameras. I did not say that the iPhone camera is the best in the world, I said that pictures are good relative to the function. Sure K800i camera is great, but I doubt you will leave your real camera at home when you go on vacation.
post #36 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post

Nah, we're used to new phones every few months in Europe. The N95 for instance has had at least 3 revisions since launch and they've released at least a half dozen more phones since then.

Is the iPhone really that different?

The N95 revisions seem a lot because there are specific versions for US 3G bands. If you were in Europe, you got that original model and the 8 GB version. In NAM, we got the original which didn't support USA 3G bands, and the N95-3 with USA 3G bands. The NAM N95 with 8 GB storage will come soon. So that's like 3 versions within a year in NAM. An EDGE version, a 3G version, and a soon to be 3G version with 8 GB. In Europe, it's really just two.

Contrast with Apple iPhone. Available in June with 4 and 8 GB versions. In January, a 16 GB version. In Summer, likely a 3G version, maybe a totally different model. Depending on how you count, that's 3 versions of the iPhone, maybe 4 if you count the 4 GB, within a year.

Now, Nokia, LG, Samsung, SE etc have new phone releases every few months. But that's because they have a lot of different phone models! Nokia probably has 100+. There aren't really major revisions within the same phone model every few months. Apple in 2 years will likely have more cell phone models. They could have an iPhone "nano", "max", and variations within. Then, we can maybe see more frequent Apple cell phone releases in the every few months category.

Quote:
Sales in Europe have been poor by comparison to the USA so for Apple's sake alone they need an update.

I still contend that Apple is ok with the European sales. They are a very US centric company afterall.

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Bullshit. Both Sony and Nokia have update services that update the phones over the air or via a PC/Mac. Generally it's just to fix bugs though, not add features that they didn't managed to finish before initial release.

Agree with you here. Many of the flagship or high dollar phones have updated firmware for bug fixes and new features. The added wrinkle with the iPhone is that since its UI is really virtual, major changes to it can occur. The keypad for both the dialing and text entry can change in a major way. The UI for the multimedia functions can change in a major way. Something, that really can't happen with most other phones.

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The point about the camera in phones not being good is irrelevant. It only has to be on par with other phone cameras and you know nothing about photography if you think Apple's 2.0mp dinky toy lens and no flash is even close to being on par with even old trusty phones like the SE K800 or pretty much any 2 year old Nokia/SE. Then it's passable for a point-and-shoot snapper, which is what most people are happy with anyway.

Like in other threads, in the USA, the camera function hasn't become driving feature. It's cultural. I'd argue MMS is the same way.

However, what is passable functionality for people is quite a subjective thing. It can really be argued that most people won't take any better pictures with an SE or a Nokia when compared to an iPhone. Most people may not even be able to tell the difference. Even with point-n-shoots, most people take such crappy pictures that a person with an iPhone may take the same quality photos. If so, the importance of a higher quality camera isn't that big.

I'd also argue digital point-and-shoots don't take better pictures than film point-and-shoots. Just not there yet in low light or difficult lighting conditions, which seems the vast majority of times, but that's a different forum.
post #37 of 207
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It's surely got room for a better camera and a flash. How much room do you think these things take up these days?

Yes it could easily have a flash. But it does not have room for the camera in the Viewty or Nokia N95.

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Go look at a Nokia 6500 classic. It's only a 2mp camera so that's going to win points with those of you in denial.

Slower processor, smaller screen, significantly less storage, does not use a desktop OS or apps.
post #38 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

I don't think we will see 3G phone this year, maybe at Macworld 2009 when they have nothing else to offer for the current model.


Nope. Apple's already stated that they're going to launch in Asia in 2008, and for that, they definitely need a 3G iPhone.

Not to mention their Euro sales need help... again, "This looks like a job for..." the 3G iPhone.



Truth, Justice, and Modern Data Speeds...



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Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
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Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
Thanks for listening to your...
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post #39 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post

The point about the camera in phones not being good is irrelevant. It only has to be on par with other phone cameras and you know nothing about photography if you think Apple's 2.0mp dinky toy lens and no flash is even close to being on par with even old trusty phones like the SE K800 or pretty much any 2 year old Nokia/SE. Then it's passable for a point-and-shoot snapper, which is what most people are happy with anyway.


Bingo.

Fact is, IT DOESN'T MATTER that cameraphones aren't as good as dedicated cameras... we all KNOW that already. But to listen to some ppl talk, the question at hand is whether to buy an iPHONE or a NIKON Digital Camera. But IT'S NOT... obviously.

The REAL QUESTION is, is someone going to buy an iPHONE or A COMPETING HIGH END CELLPHONE... and is the iPHONE's specs-poor camera a further strike against it?

People here may not LIKE the fact that potential buyers look at spec sheets and go:

"Hmm...iPHONE: 2.0 MP camera and NO video capture... Nokia N95 (or whatever), 5.0 MP camera, AND video capture... WOW, looks like the Nokia WHIPS ASS on the iPHONE there." \

But they DO, and that's not going to change anytime soon. So, Apple can either protest that it's not all about megapixels and "who needs video capture anyway" (lol), a strategy which won't help or matter, or they can address the issue directly by closing the spec gap. The Broadcom chipset definitely supports them doing just that on the 3G iPhone.

I'm sure Nokia and Apple's other competitors would LOVE it if Apple just left the camera as is on the next iPhone and proclaimed it "didn't matter", or that specs are misleading. Sigh.


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Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
Thanks for listening to your...
Reply
Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
Thanks for listening to your...
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post #40 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

The iPhone is competing directly with these companies. Their new phones add capabilities more on par with the iPhone.

...Software updates cannot improve everything. Hardware needs to keep getting better too.


Who are you and what have you done with Teno???


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Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
Thanks for listening to your...
Reply
Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
Thanks for listening to your...
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