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Spitzer Goes Down. Literally. - Page 3

post #81 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post


Strawman Patrol: "Sir, we have a Class A Strawman in P.O. Dispatch all units STAT."

I'm not saying it's OK or even remotely tolerable. I'm saying that 16-19 does not qualify as a "young boy." 16 is the age of consent in most states for Christ's sake. It's immoral, inappropriate and a host of other things...but he didn't prey on "young boys." The man wasn't a pedophile.

Point taken. I still tend to think of 16 as "boy" territory rather than a "young man." Chalk my hyperbole up to a spring break full of grading.

You can now go back to your defense of Foley.
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post #82 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by midwinter View Post

Point taken. I still tend to think of 16 as "boy" territory rather than a "young man." Chalk my hyperbole up to a spring break full of grading.

You can now go back to your defense of Foley.

Salve... salve... salve... SALT!
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post #83 of 120
I love the internet. I loooooooove the internet.


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post #84 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiopollution View Post

Sammi Jo, is that you?


Goodness! Now the media has a whole bunch of questions about this case. How was it brought up, how was it discovered? Look here:

TimesOnLine has an interesting article about Nine Spitzer.

"Yet not even a hoard of saucy Dupré photographs unearthed by the New York Post on Friday could distract Wall Street lawyers and bankers from intriguing anomalies in the small print of the prosecution case against Spitzer..."

"“The movement of the amounts of cash required to pay prostitutes, even high-priced prostitutes over a long period of time, does not commonly generate a full-scale investigation,” noted Alan Dershowitz, the Harvard law professor and former member of OJ Simpson’s legal team. "

"Yet Spitzer is the son of a multi-millionaire property tycoon and has substantial assets of his own. The notion that as few as three payments from his account of less than $10,000 might be considered suspicious “raises as many questions as answers”, said Dershowitz.

“We are talking about a man who is a multi-millionaire with numerous investments and purchases,” he said. “It’s simply none of the federal government’s business that a man may have been moving his own money around in order to keep his wife in the dark about his private sexual peccadilloes.”"

"No evidence has been produced that the bank reporting of Spitzer’s transactions was maliciously intended, yet Dershowitz and other commentators have noted that the system was designed to ferret out drug dealers, the mafia, terrorists and major financial fraud.

“Once federal authorities concluded that the ‘suspicious financial transactions’ attributed to Mr Spitzer did not fit any of [these categories], they should have closed the investigation,” said Dershowitz.

"Instead, they went after Spitzer with the raw, relentless enthusiasm that the governor had so often displayed towards his own targets in the past. And although his speedy resignation defused much of the political tension in New York, many questions remain about how a man so familiar with the politics of personal destruction exposed himself to inevitable ruin."

SO, there are some interesting questions yet to be answered! Who oh who benefits from this Superdelegate's downfall? What oh what will the other Superdelegates do come crunch time?

It's going to be so god damned good to have The Clintons back to slap around again. You'll know what I'm talking about eight years from now when Jenna Bush is inaugurated as the Second Woman President

V/R,
Aries 1B
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post #85 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aries 1B View Post

Who oh who benefits from this Superdelegate's downfall? What oh what will the other Superdelegates do come crunch time?

Obama, no question about it. Clinton needs the superdelegates to win, and she just lost one.
post #86 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell View Post

Obama, no question about it. Clinton needs the superdelegates to win, and she just lost one.

Pardon? Doesn't Paterson become the new NY superdelegate?
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #87 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by midwinter View Post

Pardon? Doesn't Paterson become the new NY superdelegate?

Apparently he already was one, and they were both supporting Hillary. Now, she'll only get his vote rather than both of them.
post #88 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell View Post

Apparently he already was one, and they were both supporting Hillary. Now, she'll only get his vote rather than both of them.

Ah! I didn't know that. Here is my response:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHA.

HA.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #89 of 120
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aries 1B View Post

Goodness! Now the media has a whole bunch of questions about this case. How was it brought up, how was it discovered? Look here:

TimesOnLine has an interesting article about Nine Spitzer.

"Yet not even a hoard of saucy Dupré photographs unearthed by the New York Post on Friday could distract Wall Street lawyers and bankers from intriguing anomalies in the small print of the prosecution case against Spitzer..."

"The movement of the amounts of cash required to pay prostitutes, even high-priced prostitutes over a long period of time, does not commonly generate a full-scale investigation, noted Alan Dershowitz, the Harvard law professor and former member of OJ Simpsons legal team. "

"Yet Spitzer is the son of a multi-millionaire property tycoon and has substantial assets of his own. The notion that as few as three payments from his account of less than $10,000 might be considered suspicious raises as many questions as answers, said Dershowitz.

We are talking about a man who is a multi-millionaire with numerous investments and purchases, he said. Its simply none of the federal governments business that a man may have been moving his own money around in order to keep his wife in the dark about his private sexual peccadilloes."

"No evidence has been produced that the bank reporting of Spitzers transactions was maliciously intended, yet Dershowitz and other commentators have noted that the system was designed to ferret out drug dealers, the mafia, terrorists and major financial fraud.

Once federal authorities concluded that the suspicious financial transactions attributed to Mr Spitzer did not fit any of [these categories], they should have closed the investigation, said Dershowitz.

"Instead, they went after Spitzer with the raw, relentless enthusiasm that the governor had so often displayed towards his own targets in the past. And although his speedy resignation defused much of the political tension in New York, many questions remain about how a man so familiar with the politics of personal destruction exposed himself to inevitable ruin."

SO, there are some interesting questions yet to be answered! Who oh who benefits from this Superdelegate's downfall? What oh what will the other Superdelegates do come crunch time?

It's going to be so god damned good to have The Clintons back to slap around again. You'll know what I'm talking about eight years from now when Jenna Bush is inaugurated as the Second Woman President

V/R,
Aries 1B


WRT Dershowitz: I never liked him, particularly after his defense of Gore in 2000. More recently I found him to be far more reasonable. Until now. I heard him interviewed the day after the story broke. I could not believe me ears. He was actually defending the guy. His comments above are lunacy and made with total disregard for the facts we know at present. Spitzer didn't just screw prostitutes. My lord.
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post #90 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

WRT Dershowitz: I never liked him, particularly after his defense of Gore in 2000. More recently I found him to be far more reasonable. Until now. I heard him interviewed the day after the story broke. I could not believe me ears. He was actually defending the guy. His comments above are lunacy and made with total disregard for the facts we know at present. Spitzer didn't just screw prostitutes. My lord.

What, exactly, did you disagree with? What he is saying makes sense to me - he earns $2 million/year from investments, $80k in money wires over a year should not raise any red flags.
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
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post #91 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

WRT Dershowitz: I never liked him, particularly after his defense of Gore in 2000. More recently I found him to be far more reasonable. Until now. I heard him interviewed the day after the story broke. I could not believe me ears. He was actually defending the guy. His comments above are lunacy and made with total disregard for the facts we know at present. Spitzer didn't just screw prostitutes. My lord.

What, exactly, did you disagree with? What he is saying makes sense to me - he earns $2 million/year from investments, $15k in three money wires should not raise any red flags.
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
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post #92 of 120
It seems that the new Governor is much better than the old one. New York seems better represented these days.
post #93 of 120
Strange how a thread can start so devoid of relevant material, then goes downhill from there. What the hell is so shocking about a politician spending $4000 of *his own money* on an escort? They all do it in DC, its part of the game there... and has been for decades or more.

Eliot Spitzer was a thorn in the side of the banking industry and the Bush Administration, and he had to be "got".

This explanation from Greg Palast (a member of the endangered species the "Investigative Journalist") is worth a read and puts the record straight. I wonder why the "liberal media" avoided reporting this? Silly question... The issue of institutionalized racism is more than plain in all this.


Quote:
While New York Governor Eliot Spitzer was paying an ‘escort’ $4,300 in a hotel room in Washington, just down the road, George Bush’s new Federal Reserve Board Chairman, Ben Bernanke, was secretly handing over $200 billion in a tryst with mortgage bank industry speculators.

Both acts were wanton, wicked and lewd. But there’s a BIG difference. The Governor was using his own checkbook. Bush’s man Bernanke was using ours.

This week, Bernanke’s Fed, for the first time in its history, loaned a selected coterie of banks one-fifth of a trillion dollars to guarantee these banks’ mortgage-backed junk bonds. The deluge of public loot was an eye-popping windfall to the very banking predators who have brought two million families to the brink of foreclosure.

Up until Wednesday, there was one single, lonely politician who stood in the way of this creepy little assignation at the bankers’ bordello: Eliot Spitzer.

Who are they kidding? Spitzer’s lynching and the bankers’ enriching are intimately tied.

How? Follow the money.

The press has swallowed Wall Street’s line that millions of US families are about to lose their homes because they bought homes they couldn’t afford or took loans too big for their wallets. Ba-LON-ey. That’s blaming the victim.

Here’s what happened. Since the Bush regime came to power, a new species of loan became the norm, the ‘sub-prime’ mortgage and it’s variants including loans with teeny “introductory” interest rates. From out of nowhere, a company called ‘Countrywide’ became America’s top mortgage lender, accounting for one in five home loans, a large chuck of these ‘sub-prime.’

Here’s how it worked: The Grinning Family, with US average household income, gets a $200,000 mortgage at 4% for two years. Their $955 a month payment is 25% of their income. No problem. Their banker promises them a new mortgage, again at the cheap rate, in two years. But in two years, the promise ain’t worth a can of spam and the Grinnings are told to scram - because their house is now worth less than the mortgage. Now, the mortgage hits 9% or $1,609 plus fees to recover the “discount” they had for two years. Suddenly, payments equal 42% to 50% of pre-tax income. Grinnings move into their Toyota.

Now, what kind of American is ‘sub-prime.’ Guess. No peeking. Here’s a hint: 73% of HIGH INCOME Black and Hispanic borrowers were given sub-prime loans versus 17% of similar-income Whites. Dark-skinned borrowers aren’t stupid – they had no choice. They were ‘steered’ as it’s called in the mortgage sharking business.

‘Steering,’ sub-prime loans with usurious kickers, fake inducements to over-borrow, called ‘fraudulent conveyance’ or ‘predatory lending’ under US law, were almost completely forbidden in the olden days (Clinton Administration and earlier) by federal regulators and state laws as nothing more than fancy loan-sharking.


But when the Bush regime took over, Countrywide and its banking brethren were told to party hardy – it was OK now to steer’m, fake’m, charge’m and take’m.

But there was this annoying party-pooper. The Attorney General of New York, Eliot Spitzer, who sued these guys to a fare-thee-well. Or tried to.

Instead of regulating the banks that had run amok, Bush’s regulators went on the warpath against Spitzer and states attempting to stop predatory practices. Making an unprecedented use of the legal power of “federal pre-emption,” Bush-bots ordered the states to NOT enforce their consumer protection laws.

Indeed, the feds actually filed a lawsuit to block Spitzer’s investigation of ugly racial mortgage steering. Bush’s banking buddies were especially steamed that Spitzer hammered bank practices across the nation using New York State laws.

Spitzer not only took on Countrywide, he took on their predatory enablers in the investment banking community. Behind Countrywide was the Mother Shark, its funder and now owner, Bank of America. Others joined the sharkfest: Goldman Sachs, Merrill Lynch and Citigroup’s Citibank made mortgage usury their major profit centers. They did this through a bit of financial legerdemain called “securitization.”

What that means is that they took a bunch of junk mortgages, like the Grinnings, loans about to go down the toilet and re-packaged them into “tranches” of bonds which were stamped “AAA” - top grade - by bond rating agencies. These gold-painted turds were sold as sparkling safe investments to US school district pension funds and town governments in Finland (really).

When the housing bubble burst and the paint flaked off, investors were left with the poop and the bankers were left with bonuses. Countrywide’s top man, Angelo Mozilo, will ‘earn’ a $77 million buy-out bonus this year on top of the $656 million - over half a billion dollars – he pulled in from 1998 through 2007.

But there were rumblings that the party would soon be over. Angry regulators, burned investors and the weight of millions of homes about to be boarded up were causing the sharks to sink. Countrywide’s stock was down 50%, and Citigroup was off 38%, not pleasing to the Gulf sheiks who now control its biggest share blocks.

Then, on Wednesday of this week, the unthinkable happened. Carlyle Capital went bankrupt. Who? That’s Carlyle as in Carlyle Group. James Baker, Senior Counsel. Notable partners, former and past: George Bush, the Bin Laden family and more dictators, potentates, pirates and presidents than you can count.

The Fed had to act. Bernanke opened the vault and dumped $200 billion on the poor little suffering bankers. They got the public treasure – and got to keep the Grinning’s house. There was no ‘quid’ of a foreclosure moratorium for the ‘pro quo’ of public bail-out. Not one family was saved – but not one banker was left behind.

Every mortgage sharking operation shot up in value. Mozilo’s Countrywide stock rose 17% in one day. The Citi sheiks saw their company’s stock rise $10 billion in an afternoon.

And that very same day the bail-out was decided – what a coinkydink! – the man called, ‘The Sheriff of Wall Street’ was cuffed. Spitzer was silenced.

Do I believe the banks called Justice and said, “Take him down today!” Naw, that’s not how the system works. But the big players knew that unless Spitzer was taken out, he would create enough ruckus to spoil the party. Headlines in the financial press – one was “Wall Street Declares War on Spitzer” - made clear to Bush’s enforcers at Justice who their number one target should be. And it wasn’t Bin Laden.

It was the night of February 13 when Spitzer made the bone-headed choice to order take-out in his Washington Hotel room. He had just finished signing these words for the Washington Post about predatory loans:

“Not only did the Bush administration do nothing to protect consumers, it embarked on an aggressive and unprecedented campaign to prevent states from protecting their residents from the very problems to which he federal government was turning a blind eye.”

Bush, said Spitzer right in the headline, was the “Predator Lenders’ Partner in Crime.” The President, said Spitzer, was a fugitive from justice. And Spitzer was in Washington to launch a campaign to take on the Bush regime and the biggest financial powers on the planet.

Spitzer wrote, “When history tells the story of the subprime lending crisis and recounts its devastating effects on the lives of so many innocent homeowners the Bush administration will not be judged favorably.”

But now, the Administration can rest assured that this love story – of Bush and his bankers - will not be told by history at all – now that the Sheriff of Wall Street has fallen on his own gun.

Here is what happened, in the words of Eliot Spitzer himself:

Quote:
Thursday, February 14, 2008; A25
Several years ago, state attorneys general and others involved in consumer protection began to notice a marked increase in a range of predatory lending practices by mortgage lenders. Some were misrepresenting the terms of loans, making loans without regard to consumers' ability to repay, making loans with deceptive "teaser" rates that later ballooned astronomically, packing loans with undisclosed charges and fees, or even paying illegal kickbacks. These and other practices, we noticed, were having a devastating effect on home buyers. In addition, the widespread nature of these practices, if left unchecked, threatened our financial markets.

Even though predatory lending was becoming a national problem, the Bush administration looked the other way and did nothing to protect American homeowners. In fact, the government chose instead to align itself with the banks that were victimizing consumers.

Predatory lending was widely understood to present a looming national crisis. This threat was so clear that as New York attorney general, I joined with colleagues in the other 49 states in attempting to fill the void left by the federal government. Individually, and together, state attorneys general of both parties brought litigation or entered into settlements with many subprime lenders that were engaged in predatory lending practices. Several state legislatures, including New York's, enacted laws aimed at curbing such practices.

What did the Bush administration do in response? Did it reverse course and decide to take action to halt this burgeoning scourge? As Americans are now painfully aware, with hundreds of thousands of homeowners facing foreclosure and our markets reeling, the answer is a resounding no.

Not only did the Bush administration do nothing to protect consumers, it embarked on an aggressive and unprecedented campaign to prevent states from protecting their residents from the very problems to which the federal government was turning a blind eye.

Let me explain: The administration accomplished this feat through an obscure federal agency called the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency (OCC). The OCC has been in existence since the Civil War. Its mission is to ensure the fiscal soundness of national banks. For 140 years, the OCC examined the books of national banks to make sure they were balanced, an important but uncontroversial function. But a few years ago, for the first time in its history, the OCC was used as a tool against consumers.

In 2003, during the height of the predatory lending crisis, the OCC invoked a clause from the 1863 National Bank Act to issue formal opinions preempting all state predatory lending laws, thereby rendering them inoperative. The OCC also promulgated new rules that prevented states from enforcing any of their own consumer protection laws against national banks. The federal government's actions were so egregious and so unprecedented that all 50 state attorneys general, and all 50 state banking superintendents, actively fought the new rules.

But the unanimous opposition of the 50 states did not deter, or even slow, the Bush administration in its goal of protecting the banks. In fact, when my office opened an investigation of possible discrimination in mortgage lending by a number of banks, the OCC filed a federal lawsuit to stop the investigation.

Throughout our battles with the OCC and the banks, the mantra of the banks and their defenders was that efforts to curb predatory lending would deny access to credit to the very consumers the states were trying to protect. But the curbs we sought on predatory and unfair lending would have in no way jeopardized access to the legitimate credit market for appropriately priced loans. Instead, they would have stopped the scourge of predatory lending practices that have resulted in countless thousands of consumers losing their homes and put our economy in a precarious position.
When history tells the story of the subprime lending crisis and recounts its devastating effects on the lives of so many innocent homeowners, the Bush administration will not be judged favorably. The tale is still unfolding, but when the dust settles, it will be judged as a willing accomplice to the lenders who went to any lengths in their quest for profits. So willing, in fact, that it used the power of the federal government in an unprecedented assault on state legislatures, as well as on state attorneys general and anyone else on the side of consumers.

This video is another take on the Spitzer political assassination.

Regarding Countrywide.. these scam artists are under investigation by the FBI... but what difference does that make when the parties doing the "investigating" are as corrupt as the accused?

It's incredible the obsession with the trivia, while the really nasty stuff is deemed either acceptable or impolite conversation. Its more evidence of a nation in decay, when the media refuse to acknowledge, or deny, that many of our long established institutions are corrupt beyond all bounds. This should have made the headlines, yet the media, predictaby, went for the pabulum.

SDW etc etc: Its blindingly obvious who America's real enemies are.
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post #94 of 120
Spitzer went down because he was sweating hypocrisy... This wouldn't have mattered if he hadn't set himself up as an aggressive always-do-righter...
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post #95 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardeeharhar View Post

Spitzer went down because he was sweating hypocrisy... This wouldn't have mattered if he hadn't set himself up as an aggressive always-do-righter...

Really? You're saying that you think the Bush Justice department wouldn't have taken a highly irregular interest in a minor financial transaction if Spitzer hadn't "set himself up" as a straight arrow?
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post #96 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Really? You're saying that you think the Bush Justice department wouldn't have taken a highly irregular interest in a minor financial transaction if Spitzer hadn't "set himself up" as a straight arrow?

No... I am saying he ONLY went down for a petty cash-for-sex scheme because he was a straight arrow...

Any other politician would have laughed it off...
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post #97 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardeeharhar View Post

No... I am saying he ONLY went down for a petty cash-for-sex scheme because he was a straight arrow...

Any other politician would have laughed it off...

Yeah, yeah. Buying a hooker was stupid and ill-advised, (despite being common practice in DC). But in comparison to the enormous criminal scam he was exposing, what he did was far less than insignificant. It's amazing and disappointing (not to mention fatally damaging to our culture, or rather what's left of it) that so many people would interpret (his) sexual exploits as of equal importance, let alone greater. Our priorities are ass-backward beyond all description.

"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #98 of 120
I'm so sad. Spitzer was definitely a real American hero, and a role model for me. Just like Clinton, I still respect all he has done, despite his personal indiscretions. The saddest thing is that just when he is REALLY needed by the people, to fight against corporate titans who are making record profits and bailing themselves out on the backs of the middle class, Spitzer's out of the scene. He would have made a fantastic Presidential candidate among other things. Sad that Gore and Edwards don't practice what they preach either. I'm environmentalist who never litters and takes the bus every day. Seriously this guy Spitzer was The Man in my book. I'm still cheering for Patrick Fitzgerald. I hope he throws Cheney or at least Libby behind bars or at least scores convictions. From what I've read he's another public figure who's done no wrong, a tireless fighter. Why can't our heros be perfect? Can anyone be perfect? They should make a movie out of this. A serious one.
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post #99 of 120
[QUOTE=Aquatic;1232964 They should make a movie out of this. A serious one.[/QUOTE]

To bad the sex will be the star, not the important stuff.

8 years of the worst president, administration ever.
post #100 of 120
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

Strange how a thread can start so devoid of relevant material, then goes downhill from there. What the hell is so shocking about a politician spending $4000 of *his own money* on an escort? They all do it in DC, its part of the game there... and has been for decades or more.

Eliot Spitzer was a thorn in the side of the banking industry and the Bush Administration, and he had to be "got".

This explanation from Greg Palast (a member of the endangered species the "Investigative Journalist") is worth a read and puts the record straight. I wonder why the "liberal media" avoided reporting this? Silly question... The issue of institutionalized racism is more than plain in all this.




Here is what happened, in the words of Eliot Spitzer himself:



This video is another take on the Spitzer political assassination.

Regarding Countrywide.. these scam artists are under investigation by the FBI... but what difference does that make when the parties doing the "investigating" are as corrupt as the accused?

It's incredible the obsession with the trivia, while the really nasty stuff is deemed either acceptable or impolite conversation. Its more evidence of a nation in decay, when the media refuse to acknowledge, or deny, that many of our long established institutions are corrupt beyond all bounds. This should have made the headlines, yet the media, predictaby, went for the pabulum.

SDW etc etc: Its blindingly obvious who America's real enemies are.

Assassinated politically?

It was Countrywide et al that did it?


Oh, and the best part, from his editorial: "The Bush Administration did nothing to protect American home owners"


Translation: The Bush Administration took down Spitzer.
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post #101 of 120
Sammi Jo has never seen a conspiracy theory she didn't believe.
post #102 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

Sammi Jo has never seen a conspiracy theory she didn't believe.

It's not paranoia when they're really out to get you. This guy single-handedly took on and was beating The Man. You don't do that and not make a few enemies in high up places. It's that simple. I mean it's probably a mixture of both, but I simply refuse to accept that this is a complete coincidence and not at least partially politically motivated.
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post #103 of 120
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquatic View Post

It's not paranoia when they're really out to get you. This guy single-handedly took on and was beating The Man. You don't do that and not make a few enemies in high up places. It's that simple. I mean it's probably a mixture of both, but I simply refuse to accept that this is a complete coincidence and not at least partially politically motivated.

Spitzer didn't just make enemies by being tough. He made enemies by abusing his power.

*Spitzer publicly attacked former AIG CEO Hank Greenberg, saying that he was guilty of "illegal" behavior. Greenberg has never been charged with anything.

*John Whitehead (former Goldman-Sachs chief) defended Greenberg in an editorial. Spitzer wrote him a letter stating: I will be coming after you. You will pay the price. This is only the beginning, and you will pay dearly for what you have done.

*Spitzer used the NY State Police to pressure and try to discredit Senate Majority Leader Joseph Bruno.


So Spitzer made enemies everywhere. By all accounts, he was a bastard, personally speaking. He was ruthless and self-righteous. He was self-obsessed and driven by raw political ambition. So yeah...he made enemies. Could that have influenced those who were investigating him? Absolutely. That doesn't really add up to his downfall being "politically motivated" though. It's not as if the justice department said "hey..look...a Democrat we don't like. Let's screw him harder than that $5,000 whore we found out about."
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post #104 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquatic View Post

It's not paranoia when they're really out to get you. This guy single-handedly took on and was beating The Man. You don't do that and not make a few enemies in high up places. It's that simple. I mean it's probably a mixture of both, but I simply refuse to accept that this is a complete coincidence and not at least partially politically motivated.

I don't deny that some of his actions as NY AG were beneficial to the public.

But a growing body of evidence suggests he's just as ego maniacal as the people he railed against.
post #105 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

I don't deny that some of his actions as NY AG were beneficial to the public.

But a growing body of evidence suggests he's just as ego maniacal as the people he railed against.

Not that I'm defending him, but it's not like he used public funds to engage in illegal activities. I mean, he's not Ted Stevens or anything. Sort of closer to Gary Condit. Without the dead body.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #106 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

Sammi Jo has never seen a conspiracy theory she didn't believe.

As opposed to a "lone banker theory? (sorry I gotta laugh here ). It looks pretty damned obvious what happened. Remember Occam's Razor... (if it looks like a duck etc...)

Where have you been living? Cloud cuckoo land? Is that the best you've got?

By that kind of "response" I guess you would support the actions of the criminal elements within the banking community, and tell several million US families facing foreclosure to go shove it?
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #107 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Assassinated politically?

It was Countrywide et al that did it?


Oh, and the best part, from his editorial: "The Bush Administration did nothing to protect American home owners"


Translation: The Bush Administration took down Spitzer.

You said it. And that is pretty much what happened, by the most credible accounts. It is also common knowledge that the Bush Administration doesn't give a flying fvck about ordinary/working/middle class Americans, especially low income blacks. The disgusting conduct of the Bush Administration during (and in the aftermath of) Hurricanes Katrina and Rita in 2005 is typical. This current huge loansharking scam fits the pattern, like a glove.

This is kinda like the Mafia raised to the 5th power, capitalism morphing into mega-crime. Doesn't anyone remember Enron and the California "energy crisis".. yet another manufactured scam to bilk $$billions from American families and enrich another set of crooks close to this Administration?

SDW.. you appear to be yet another who doesn't give a damn about the fate of people of ordinary means... especially when the, unpoliceable, unaccountable banking elites stand to make a killing off the misery of millions.
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #108 of 120
Yea, Bear Sterns really milked billions from people. With black single mother Palestinians the hardest hit.
post #109 of 120
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

You said it. And that is pretty much what happened, by the most credible accounts.

Whose accounts would those be?

Quote:
It is also common knowledge that the Bush Administration doesn't give a flying fvck about ordinary/working/middle class Americans, especially low income blacks.

That's just utterly ridiculous, unsupportable and contradicted by the facts.

Quote:


The disgusting conduct of the Bush Administration during (and in the aftermath of) Hurricanes Katrina and Rita in 2005 is typical. This current huge loansharking scam fits the pattern, like a glove.

What conduct would that be?

Quote:

This is kinda like the Mafia raised to the 5th power, capitalism morphing into mega-crime. Doesn't anyone remember Enron and the California "energy crisis".. yet another manufactured scam to bilk $$billions from American families and enrich another set of crooks close to this Administration?

Right..it was a conspiracy. Enron never dealt with Democrats, only This Administration.

Quote:

SDW.. you appear to be yet another who doesn't give a damn about the fate of people of ordinary means... especially when the, unpoliceable, unaccountable banking elites stand to make a killing off the misery of millions.

And of what means am I, exactly? If course I care...I'm one of them. The thing is that we have different believes on what the problem is and how to fix it.

You believe the problem is with This Administration, while it's clearly with almost all politicians that are the problem.

You believe that corporations are evil and unjust. I know they do a lot of good and that with some exception, the free market can solve most problems.
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post #110 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post




You believe that corporations are evil and unjust. I know they do a lot of good and that with some exception, the free market can solve most problems.

Corporations are evil and unjust because they are just like people. People are evil and unjust. People are mostly conservative and thus greedy, actually. The world can be envisioned as a tragedy of the commons. The free market is fierce. SDW if we were really in a free market you'd be a lot poorer. Me too. And Bill Gates and a few other people would be trillionaires, not billionaires. Who would stop them? Then again this is just my guess...could be wrong. I haven't read enough to really make these claims. I'm just spouting off after a night of gambling. Ah the good old free market!
"Overpopulation and climate change are serious shit." Gilsch
"I was really curious how they had managed such fine granularity of alienation." addabox
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"Overpopulation and climate change are serious shit." Gilsch
"I was really curious how they had managed such fine granularity of alienation." addabox
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post #111 of 120
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquatic View Post

Corporations are evil and unjust because they are just like people. People are evil and unjust. People are mostly conservative and thus greedy, actually. The world can be envisioned as a tragedy of the commons. The free market is fierce. SDW if we were really in a free market you'd be a lot poorer. Me too. And Bill Gates and a few other people would be trillionaires, not billionaires. Who would stop them? Then again this is just my guess...could be wrong. I haven't read enough to really make these claims. I'm just spouting off after a night of gambling. Ah the good old free market!

I wasn't suggesting an unregulated free market.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #112 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

I wasn't suggesting an unregulated free market.

Pinko! 8)
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post #113 of 120
Yeah you gotta love capitalism. I just got in to stocks last month. I'm riding roller coasters, AAPL, RAD, now I'm looking at JCP and a few others, from the technical analysis standpoint. It's just as fun as Vegas! I went there last year and won money. I'm feelin' the luck still. But yes, the reason it's possible to play Vegas and Wall Street is that they are regulated. I'm all for regulated capitalism. On the same token, it's bogus that we're bailing out Bear Sterns. Again, that's why I loved Spitzer. He was The Regulator, keeping Wall Street in line. Ah well, let's see how the Paterson does.
"Overpopulation and climate change are serious shit." Gilsch
"I was really curious how they had managed such fine granularity of alienation." addabox
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"Overpopulation and climate change are serious shit." Gilsch
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post #114 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquatic View Post

Spitzer was definitely a real American hero, and a role model for me.

A "hero" and "role model" for prosecutorial hubris and abuse?

He was a power-hungry tyrant. I'm glad to see he was hung by his own rope.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquatic View Post

The saddest thing is that just when he is REALLY needed by the people, to fight against corporate titans who are making record profits

God forbid that someone should make a profit.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquatic View Post

and bailing themselves out on the backs of the middle class

The bailing out "on the backs of the middle class" (by which I assume you mean taxpayer-funded bailouts) are the fault of government. Don't like the bailouts (I don't either)? Blame the government. Do something about the government bailing people (whether individuals or corporations) out of their poor decisions with your money and my money.
post #115 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquatic View Post

Corporations are evil and unjust because they are just like people. People are evil and unjust.

Let's try something...
\\
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquatic View Post

Governments are evil and unjust because they are just like people. People are evil and unjust.

Yep. That works. Except, with governments, they have absolute power over their people. And the only way that corporations can gain such absolute power over people is through partnership with governments.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquatic View Post

if we were really in a free market you'd be a lot poorer.

This is simply not true and it demonstrates either your ignorance of history or your biases (or both).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquatic View Post

could be wrong

You are.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquatic View Post

I haven't read enough to really make these claims.

Then please do some reading.
post #116 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

I wasn't suggesting an unregulated free market.

Well, I am.

With proper property rights and true freedom it will work fine.

Or we can continue with even greater consolidation of power (which Bush's Treasury Secretary is now suggesting) into the hands of the few (the Fed) that are actually creating the instability we all decry.
post #117 of 120
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sslarson View Post

Well, I am.

With proper property rights and true freedom it will work fine.

Or we can continue with even greater consolidation of power (which Bush's Treasury Secretary is now suggesting) into the hands of the few (the Fed) that are actually creating the instability we all decry.

I am seriously concerned about that as well. This whole "plan" they've developed is rather terrifying.
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #118 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

I am seriously concerned about that as well. This whole "plan" they've developed is rather terrifying.

It's just a repeat of the "crisis = opportunity" meme that keeps popping up in the Bush Presidency.

9/11?
Opportunity to invade Iraq, institute regime change, and occupy the Middle East indefinitely. Opportunity to consolidate power in the Executive Branch. Opportunity to scare the population into giving up their rights regarding government surveillance.

Katrina?
Opportunity to make Blanco agree to federalize the NG, and to test-drive Blackwater as domestic security providers.
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post #119 of 120
I know Sammi-Jo has the market on conspiracy theories, but I thought I'd mention that the "Who really took down Spitzer" question is starting to get a closer look from some distinguished (and very right wing) sources.

In my opinion, I doubt Bush had much to do with anything, since his reputation is all but lost anyway.

However, the Federal Reserve's apparent usage of the Iraq war and mortgage housing crisis to consolidate economic power is disturbing. And in the shadows of where the world of financial and political power merges, things have been known to get very ugly.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #120 of 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

However, the Federal Reserve's apparent usage of the Iraq war and mortgage housing crisis to consolidate economic power is disturbing.

Crisis = Opportunity.

But, hey.....

Don't Worry... Get Happy!!
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