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Return of the Health Nazis - Page 2

post #41 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubelum View Post

... apparently it is the easy availability of idiom books...

Oh noes! Teh American Talibanz® iz comingz an makes me prayz teh rotisserie!!

I can has zoloft and 0% fahnancing?

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #42 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell View Post

So what is the deeper issue here? That we are too health/nutrition-oriented in our culture? Or that schools have become increasingly authoritarian?

They have become increasingly authoritarian and strangely have done it under the stewardship of the "Free Love" generation. They have become so because as we keep digging in further and further into problems that seem incapable of being legislated away, you have dig more and more into the psyche and behaviors of the persons causing such "problems."

Thus we pass a law to limit the sale of unhealthy foods and people buy them on the way to school, or bring them from home. An underground market develops for "Skittles."

Everyone becomes a criminal because they refuse to live their life according to the dictates of the institution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell View Post

One of the things that Americans in Germany often comment on is how strange it is to see all the Germans waiting for the little green walk light to come on before they cross the street. Even if there clearly aren't any cars to be seen, if that light is red, they'll wait there until it changes. In the US, I've never seen Americans standing in front of a car-less street waiting for the walk light. They ignore the light and cross.

I think there's a sociological term for that - "looseness" maybe. The US is a loose culture. People engage in a wider range of behaviors, to put it nicely.

I think it goes well beyond that and more to the founding principles that each society is organized under. America is a nation of lawbreakers who in most instances fled authority to come here. Our Declaration is the only document I have read that has an institutional self-destruction mechanism built in. Consent comes from the governed. If the government fails to realize this, you have the right to destroy the government and start over.

Quote:
People engage in a wider range of behaviors, to put it nicely. There's more crime, there's more inappropriate behavior, there's more destructive behavior.

There is also the greatest experiment in history regarding the melding of disparate cultures, ethnicities and philosophies being banged against each other.

Quote:
So, if you're concerned about US culture, what do you do? The research on health marketing is very clear - it doesn't work. You can't get people to stop using drugs with ads. You can't get people to wear seat belts with billboards. It's just too loose of a culture. But what does work is the strong arm of the law. Make a regulation that all cars have airbags and you won't have to hope people buy a car with airbags - they will whether they like it or not. Make a rule that people can't smoke indoors, and they won't. Give people a $100 ticket if they're not wearing a seatbelt, and they'll wear one.

Clearly you don't know my dad. He carries a doctor's note claiming he can't wear a seatbelt and occasionally, just pays the ticket.(I honestly have no idea why)

I would disagree that Americans won't change. However the difference is likely that they won't change simply because a good public service message tells them the government or some well-wishers would prefer something be done a certain way. They do change when there is credible information available that points to a better way.

So take the candy ban for example. Certainly most candy is calorie dense and in comparison to others foods, not particularly efficient in terms of nutritional content. However can we honestly prove it "harms" the student to have one or two of them a week? No we can't and when you pull out something like BMI which makes the entire basketball team "obese" due to having more muscle content, it just makes it worse.

So people ignore it. They are the governed, the consent should come from them, they don't give it so the government and associated laws should change.

Quote:
It's a depressing situation. You'd hope that parents would feed their kids well without making zero-tolerance rules against candy. But the simple fact is, they don't. Telling people that it's a good idea just isn't enough in US culture. It doesn't work, because the culture is too loose. It's considered nosy meddling. So people are left with two alternatives: 1) don't care, let people engage in whatever self-destructive behaviors they want, or 2) pass ridiculously stringent laws to change behavior. What you see in the US is wavering back and forth between these two extremes

There is a middle-ground you can help them but not entirely put right the effects of the destructive behaviors. I advocate for this middle ground often. We can treat the drug addiction instead of criminalizing it for example. However that doesn't mean we have to give back the home, car, or other items that were lost to the addiction. Most welfare reform has concerned jobs versus just cash benefits. Can someone get pregnant and be unemployed at a very young age? Sure and the government can provide assured work to insure there is no hunger. It can provide the public forum for the birds of a feather to link up and arrange to help each other with child care needs. They do not have to pay them to stay home or pay them to watch their own children.

The difference between and hand out and a hand up can be found. The hand up in this instance was the school deciding to forgo revenue from bad food sources. The hand out was the rejection of the school to believe that people can provide and choose for themselves. They choose to infantlize and criminalize them to insure compliance.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #43 of 58
If it helps BRussell, history is getting better -- we live like royalty in this country, this is just a hiccup in a much broader advance. We have a problem due to people with certain philosophical predilections, who, after usurping a title as broad as "Science" -- began waging a war on the human soul. It's not going to work. History will continue to move toward a place where we are much more Christlike than we are now -- usually drug kicking and screaming, just like the rest of history.

...But we make their truth our falsehood, thinking that hath made us free,\t
Hoarding it in mouldy parchments, while our tender spirits flee\t
The rude grasp of that great Impulse which drove them across the sea.\t

They have rights who dare maintain them; we are traitors to our sires,\t
Smothering in their holy ashes Freedom’s new-lit altar-fires;\t
Shall we make their creed our jailer? Shall we, in our haste to slay,\t
From the tombs of the old prophets steal the funeral lamps away\t
To light up the martyr-fagots round the prophets of to-day?\t

New occasions teach new duties; Time makes ancient good uncouth;\t
They must upward still, and onward, who would keep abreast of Truth;\t
Lo, before us gleam her camp-fires! we ourselves must Pilgrims be,\t
Launch our Mayflower, and steer boldly through the desperate winter sea,\t
Nor attempt the Future’s portal with the Past’s blood-rusted key.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #44 of 58
I would like to know how science - in specific detail and not is pseudo-philosophical gibberish - is waging a war on the human soul.
A good brain ain't diddly if you don't have the facts
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A good brain ain't diddly if you don't have the facts
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post #45 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flounder View Post

I would like to know how science - in specific detail and not is pseudo-philosophical gibberish - is waging a war on the human soul.

post #46 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flounder View Post

I would like to know how science - in specific detail and not is pseudo-philosophical gibberish - is waging a war on the human soul.

There are no souls -- you can't test for them in the lab. Praise Darwin, and pass the antipsychotic medication!

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #47 of 58
Nope, I'm afraid you ignored the clause in the middle of my sentence.
A good brain ain't diddly if you don't have the facts
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A good brain ain't diddly if you don't have the facts
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post #48 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flounder View Post

Nope, I'm afraid you ignored the clause in the middle of my sentence.

Flounder, if you find out you have a soul, just keep it to yourself -- it's a private matter.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #49 of 58
How, and please do be specific, are evolution and Chrstianity in any way incompatible or mutually exclusive?

Since a UCC pastor is all the rage in another thread:
http://www.ucc.org/not-mutually-exclusive/

Edit: Since I like this letter, I'm going to quote my favorite paragraphs.

Quote:
As a result, our universe has expanded and so has our understanding of God. Our faith has nothing to do with clinging to ancient misconceptions. Our faith is not in the worldviews of ancient theologians or the cosmologies of biblical texts, as majestic as these might have been. Our faith is in the living God, who always goes ahead of us, speaking, calling, and creating. Gone is the old view of a small, static universe, with fixed species dwelling on afixed earth. Gone is the old view of a small, static God. We believe that God yearns for us to understand nature more fully and to love it more deeply. God speaks in many ways and through many voices. Today, one of God’s most provocative voices is science. We listen and respond, grateful that our theology is enriched by new ideas.

***

Evolution helps us see our faithful God in a new way. Our creator works patiently, calling forth life through complex processes spanning billions of years and waiting for us to awaken and respond in conscious participation in God’s own overarching dream for all living things. Evolution also helps us see ourselves anew, as creatures who share a common origin with other species. Today we know that human bodies and brains share the same genetic and biochemical processes with other creatures, not just mammals but insects, plants, and bacteria. How then should we understand ourselves as evolved creatures, sharing much of our DNA with other species, and at the same time as distinct creatures in the image of God?

***

The most obvious and perplexing question posed by technology, however, is the question of justice. Precisely because technology is powerful and so often beneficial, we must speak against policies that deny access to health care or that allow such things as a “digital divide.” Technology also imposes burdens that are often borne unfairly. The United Church of Christ was the first to speak publicly of “environmental racism,” the tendency to locate known environmental risks near the homes of racial minorities and the poor.

***

In the end, the ultimate question posed by technology is how it changes our outlook on life. Are we becoming technological creatures, for whom life is nothing more than a series of engineering problems to be solved? Do we embrace technology too glibly, taking at face value its promise of control? Have we made it a new kind of savior, a form of managed grace, a genie by which we think we control the future? Or is it possible for us to use technology, indeed to give thanks to God for its rich benefits, and at the same time to remain clear about the human mystery at the core of our being and the divine mystery that lies behind it all? Can we be technological and theological at the same time?
A good brain ain't diddly if you don't have the facts
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A good brain ain't diddly if you don't have the facts
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post #50 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmz View Post

Flounder, if you find out you have a soul, just keep it to yourself -- it's a private matter.

If you ever find a way to communicate cogently and clearly, I encourage you to share. It's for the public good.
A good brain ain't diddly if you don't have the facts
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A good brain ain't diddly if you don't have the facts
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post #51 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flounder View Post

How, and please do be specific, are evolution and Chrstianity in any way incompatible or mutually exclusive?

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!

post #52 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flounder View Post

If you ever find a way to communicate cogently and clearly, I encourage you to share. It's for the public good.

The instructions are on the bottom of the boot, Flounder -- you can do it!

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #53 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShawnJ View Post

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!


"Stand Up for Chuck"
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"Stand Up for Chuck"
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post #54 of 58
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShawnJ View Post

You had a book of idioms you studied vociferously as a child, didn't you?

**DMZ's kid goes to school**

OMG. Well done.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #55 of 58
Who didn't see this coming... "unintended consequences" and all that...

Students turn a profit from candy sales



Hey, at least these kids understand capitalism.
"Stand Up for Chuck"
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"Stand Up for Chuck"
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post #56 of 58
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubelum View Post

Who didn't see this coming... "unintended consequences" and all that...

Students turn a profit from candy sales



Hey, at least these kids understand capitalism.

I know..I loved that article. The school official seems to respect their "little underground economy."
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #57 of 58
Hi,

I want the kids to quit from drugs and its addiction.
post #58 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by angelina View Post

Hi,

I want the kids to quit from drugs and its addiction.

Give them more and up the dosage - if their parents are lame-assed spammer losers it's the best life-path trust me.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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