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If Obama is the Democrat against McCain this could ruin his campaign.  

post #1 of 312
Thread Starter 
I saw this and it made me take pause that Barack Obama could attend a "Church" like this and for 20 something years at that... It actually makes me question his judgement somewhat and I really like Barack Obama..

You have to see the video for full effect.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4443788&page=1

He seems like a black version of Rod Parsley but his choices of words are just over the top...

I mean on the one hand I realize Blacks in this country have had a lot to overcome.... But... this is not the way to inspire change..

Martin Luther King Jr. had a much better approach.

All McCain has to do is run ads of this pastor of Barack Obama and I think it would be a big blow to the support Obama would otherwise get...

It is a big disappointment for me to see this...

Your thoughts?

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
post #2 of 312
I call total complete bullshit.

Reverend Wright is preaching that "God" is angry at man's inhumanity of man (he never mentions race).

That's it. It's called preaching. And it's also 3-5 years ago.

The rest is from my post in another thread, but it's worth repeating...

Meanwhile, John McCain has received endorsements from Televangelist John Hagee, the founder of Christians United for Israel* and the senior pastor of Cornerstone Church in San Antonio, Texas.

Quote:
“Most readers will be shocked by the clear record of history linking Adolf Hitler and the Roman Catholic Church in a conspiracy to exterminate the Jews.” - Jerusalem Countdown (revised edition, 2007, p. 114)

"Anyone who makes the life of Jewish people difficult or grievous, as did the Pharaoh, as did Hitler, will be cursed by God." - keynote address to AIPAC, (March 12, 2007)

"You will either offend the world and please God, or please the world and offend God." -Faith under Fire broadcast, (September 12, 2005)

"What is the point of having free speech if you have nothing to say?" - "How Free Is Freedom?" (July 2, 2006) [1]

"Jesus did not come to the Earth to start 285 squabbling denominations fighting over the Bible. How like the devil to divide Christians over the Bible." - "How Free Is Freedom?" (July 2, 2006) [2]

"If you live your life and don't confess your sins to God Almighty through the authority of Christ and His blood, I'm going to say this very plainly, you're going straight to hell with a nonstop ticket." October, 2006[3]

"All hurricanes are acts of God because God controls the heavens. I believe that New Orleans had a level of sin that was offensive to God and they were recipients of the judgment of God for that." [29].

"Why would you want to be politically correct when you can be right?" -The Revelation Church broadcast, (February 2007)

"The most important thing to the Christian community is not the environment but evangelism." "The Fish Gate" 9/2/07

"Christians don't steal or lie, they don't get divorced or have abortions. If the Ten Commandments were followed by everyone we would be able to fire half the police force and in six months the prisons would be all half empty." "The Fish Gate" 9/2/07

*Rapture Ready: The Christians United for Israel Tour

and Televangelist Rod Parsley...

McCain's Spiritual Guide: Destroy Islam

Quote:
Senator John McCain hailed as a spiritual adviser an Ohio megachurch pastor who has called upon Christians to wage a "war" against the "false religion" of Islam with the aim of destroying it.

...

The leader of a 12,000-member congregation, Parsley has written several books outlining his fundamentalist religious outlook, including the 2005 Silent No More. In this work, Parsley decries the "spiritual desperation" of the United States, and he blasts away at the usual suspects: activist judges, civil libertarians who advocate the separation of church and state, the homosexual "culture" ("homosexuals are anything but happy and carefree"), the "abortion industry," and the crass and profane entertainment industry. And Parsley targets another profound threat to the United States: the religion of Islam.

In a chapter titled "Islam: The Deception of Allah," Parsley warns there is a "war between Islam and Christian civilization." He continues:

Quote:
I cannot tell you how important it is that we understand the true nature of Islam, that we see it for what it really is. In fact, I will tell you this: I do not believe our country can truly fulfill its divine purpose until we understand our historical conflict with Islam. I know that this statement sounds extreme, but I do not shrink from its implications. The fact is that America was founded, in part, with the intention of seeing this false religion destroyed, and I believe September 11, 2001, was a generational call to arms that we can no longer ignore.

Parsley is not shy about his desire to obliterate Islam. In Silent No More, he notes—approvingly—that Christopher Columbus shared the same goal: "It was to defeat Islam, among other dreams, that Christopher Columbus sailed to the New World in 1492…Columbus dreamed of defeating the armies of Islam with the armies of Europe made mighty by the wealth of the New World. It was this dream that, in part, began America." He urges his readers to realize that a confrontation between Christianity and Islam is unavoidable: "We find now we have no choice. The time has come." And he has bad news: "We may already be losing the battle. As I scan the world, I find that Islam is responsible for more pain, more bloodshed, and more devastation than nearly any other force on earth at this moment."

I notice something...neither Hagee or Parsley have been reported on the MSM (correct me if I'm wrong, I don't watch much MSM), but it seems Wright has been attacked on almost all of them, including Fox News.

Why hasn't the MSM focused on especially these two either? Certainly not because Obama is ahead and leading his party, McCain WON his party nomination. So why isn't the MSM railing him on his endorsements to these nut-jobs?
post #3 of 312
Thread Starter 
I would like to say...

Church leaders / pastors... Keep your politics out of Church.

You people SUCK on all sides of the political spectrum.

And you do Jesus no favors with your ignorant methods.

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
post #4 of 312
The UCC is a great church
A good brain ain't diddly if you don't have the facts
A good brain ain't diddly if you don't have the facts
post #5 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellowship View Post

I would like to say...

Church leaders / pastors... Keep your politics out of Church.

You people SUCK on all sides of the political spectrum.

And you do Jesus no favors with your ignorant methods.

Fellows

Fantastic idea.

Keep politics out of church. Keep church out of politics. \

I thought that's what was originally envisioned over 200 years ago?
Do you realize that fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous Communist plot we have ever had to face? - Jack D. Ripper
Do you realize that fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous Communist plot we have ever had to face? - Jack D. Ripper
post #6 of 312
Thread Starter 
Folks this politics in Church thing does none of us any favors...

My grandparents go to a small town redneck Church and were told "Barack Obama is the anti-Christ"

I was just talking to my neighbor the other day about this and a woman I encountered at the Caucus when me and this other guy who were talking about our support of Obama were chatting and this woman in a wheel chair said to us...

"I bet you two are republicans" in a snotty voice...

before we got a word in edge wise she said.... I am going to the democratic caucus because "he is a Muslim" !


Needless to say I was disgusted that this woman has so many assumptions about everything..... She thinks Obama is a Muslim and she thought me and this other guy were "Republicans"

We really need the kind of Politics Obama talks about in his book "The Audacity of Hope" but Gee....

With a pastor like his..... It sort of leaves me in a funk....

It sucks
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
post #7 of 312
Will it be a problem: absolutely. It already is a problem, whether you think it should be or not.
Cat: the other white meat
Cat: the other white meat
post #8 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellowship View Post

This is not about the MSM.....

This is about how FREAKING BAD this makes Obama look....

It is really a let down for me to know this CRAP can be used to make Obama look like a fool.

But I am not the one who went to this Church for 20 years!

Obama is. It will be his PR issue to battle...

This is really really bad for Barack Obama the way I see it....

Let me tell you this has me pissed....

I was "excited" for this country and now I am not so sure I can believe in this candidate the way I did.

Fellows

That IS what's confusing you, your acceptance of what you see in the mainstream media. This is a non issue to me. But if the media is going to force feed it down your throat 24-7 it will make you believe it and it will destroy your spirit.

Turn off the fucking TV. If anything get away from it for a couple of days. I promise you it will all be over.

This. Is. A. Non-Story.
post #9 of 312
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by @_@ Artman View Post

That IS what's confusing you, your acceptance of what you see in the mainstream media. This is a non issue to me. But if the media is going to force feed it down your throat 24-7 it will make you believe it and it will destroy your spirit.

Turn off the fucking TV. If anything get away from it for a couple of days. I promise you it will all be over.

This. Is. A. Non-Story.

Nothing was force fed to me to make me pissed off about this...

I am pissed off because it really makes me think less of Obama and Dad GUM IT

I LIKE THE GUY!!!!!!!!!!!

What the hell does this do to people on the fence if it pisses me off and I like Obama??



Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
post #10 of 312
why does his pastor's words have anything to do with Obama himself?

Does Christianity somehow cause people to loose their ability to freely think?

Are they required to believe everything their pastor says?

If either of these are true, then I am sorry, there are far far better religions out there if you want to go that route.

If neither of these are true, this makes no difference.
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
post #11 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellowship View Post

Nothing was force fed to me to make me pissed off about this...
I am pissed off because it really makes me think less of Obama and Dad GUM IT
I LIKE THE GUY!!!!!!!!!!!
What the hell does this do to people on the fence if it pisses me off and I like Obama??
Fellows

Wasn't Reverend Wright Obama's FORMER pastor/minister/priest/whatever? Hasn't he distanced himself from Reverend Wright (at Wright's own advice when Obama was a community worker)?

ABClinton is making a big thing out of nothing, nobody else is making this a story, because it has no legs.

But I sense to me it is an uncomfortable situation that goes beyond your questions of the media, it has more to do with the practice (Wright's practice) of religious preaching I think.

But that's too touchy a subject for me to delve into. Maybe you could search yourself and prove me wrong.
post #12 of 312
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardeeharhar View Post

why does his pastor's words have anything to do with Obama himself?

Does Christianity somehow cause people to loose their ability to freely think?

Are they required to believe everything their pastor says?

No of course not.
Quote:
If either of these are true, then I am sorry, there are far far better religions out there if you want to go that route.

If neither of these are true, this makes no difference.

Actually my words about this concern of his pastor in this thread stem from seeing a montage of the kinds of things his pastor has said over the years... and quite frankly I can tell you I would not attend a Church like this and would walk out after about 5 to 10 mins of this kind of dribble.

But Obama? he has remained loyal to this style / kind / sort of preaching and the pastor who delivers it for 20 year.. It raises some flags..

I must tell you it has me concerned about his (Obama's) judgement even though everything else he has said really impresses me in a big big way...

This is not about what his pastor says this is about him not leaving a Church like this one...

If he actually likes this kind "religious service" it makes me think less of him.

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
post #13 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellowship View Post

Nothing was force fed to me to make me pissed off about this...

I am pissed off because it really makes me think less of Obama and Dad GUM IT

I LIKE THE GUY!!!!!!!!!!!

What the hell does this do to people on the fence if it pisses me off and I like Obama??



Fellows

You are joking right?

Fellows, with all due respect, you are *the* prototypical fence-sitting swing voter whose politics shift with the wind and who are mainly affected by these sort of things.

Check out this TPM post about this new church attack.

Quote:
Particulars aside, the political relevance is to show Wright as angry black man; and to tie him to Obama.
post #14 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by @_@ Artman View Post

Wasn't Reverend Wright Obama's FORMER pastor/minister/priest/whatever? Hasn't he distanced himself from Reverend Wright (at Wright's own advice when Obama was a community worker)?

ABClinton is making a big thing out of nothing, nobody else is making this a story, because it has no legs.

But I sense to me it is an uncomfortable situation that goes beyond your questions of the media, it has more to do with the practice (Wright's practice) of religious preaching I think.

But that's too touchy a subject for me to delve into. Maybe you could search yourself and prove me wrong.

My understanding is he's been associated with this man for 20 years. Why be "friendly" with this man? He's not just his Pastor, Art. And have you heard the man speak/preach? He's totally unhinged. "God Damn America?" "US of KKKA? He condemns black Republicans as sell-outs.

This man is a hateful racist. And Obama was associated with him for years. Can you imagine if a white politician was friends with someone like that? My lord! Trent Lott has to resign as majority leader because he made some nice comments about an old man at his birthday party--a man who had later renounced the segregationist views he once held.

But this is OK?
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
post #15 of 312
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by @_@ Artman View Post

Wasn't Reverend Wright Obama's FORMER pastor/minister/priest/whatever? Hasn't he distanced himself from Reverend Wright (at Wright's own advice when Obama was a community worker)?

ABClinton is making a big thing out of nothing, nobody else is making this a story, because it has no legs.

But I sense to me it is an uncomfortable situation that goes beyond your questions of the media, it has more to do with the practice (Wright's practice) of religious preaching I think.

But that's too touchy a subject for me to delve into. Maybe you could search yourself and prove me wrong.

I am not worried about ABClinton using this..

I am worried about McCain using this against him over and over... Now I will say this... If Obama can handle this situation in a smart and effective way my concern will be much reduced...

But let me tell you this Does look bad from a mainstream American vantage point..

It really does not dovetail with the notion of a New Politics which is not old school like this "Church" seems to be...

This Church seems to be very provocative and rabble rouser styled. I thought Obama was much much smarter than the kind of rhetoric being spewed by this left wing version of a Jerry Falwell.

Just does not add up..

Barack Obama = educated and smart.

The style of service delivered by this "Church" = for not so smart people who like to be rabble roused...(the way I see it)

His pastor does not seem to inspire people he seems to get them all wound up.....
Not exactly stimulating from an intellectual point of view and everything else I gather about Barack Obama is that he is a VERY sharp minded intellectual.

Not some dupe who would attend this kind of place...

It really does not seem to reconcile in my mind that he could attend this kind of Church...

That's all

I hope he handles this well when McCain jumps on him with this issue.

I Don't want McCain as President....

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
post #16 of 312
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

My understanding is he's been associated with this man for 20 years. Why be "friendly" with this man? He's not just his Pastor, Art. And have you heard the man speak/preach? He's totally unhinged. "God Damn America?" "US of KKKA? He condemns black Republicans as sell-outs.

This man is a hateful racist. And Obama was associated with him for years. Can you imagine if a white politician was friends with someone like that? My lord! Trent Lott has to resign as majority leader because he made some nice comments about an old man at his birthday party--a man who had later renounced the segregationist views he once held.

But this is OK?

SDW2001 I hope you see that I have a balanced disdain for this kind of crap on both sides of the political spectrum... I know you must think I am only critical aganst all things Republican / Neocon etc.. But I hope you take note that indeed I share the love with all subjects / topics that rub me the wrong way.

Not trying to get a pat on the back here but I want it to be known I "share the love" with my criticisms.

I wish more people would be equally forceful with their scrutiny of all candidates.

If we don't speak out about what is wrong with this world nothing will ever change...

For the better that is..

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
post #17 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Can you imagine if a white politician was friends with someone like that? My lord!

What the fuck is going on here. I have posted links and sources to two, TWO fucking bat-shit crazy televangelists that endorse and morally support John McCain and neither you or even Fellowship won't respond about them.

They are racists, they are crazy, they want to wipe out another religious people...
THEY WANT THE WORLD TO END.


And both of you...sorry, but both of you SHEEP are getting suckered into the BULLSHIT.

1. Reverend Wright is Obama's FORMER pastor.
2. Not only had Reverend Wright advised Obama to keep his distance, Obama has himself removed him from his election committee.
3. This is a non-story. you both and all the other sheep are making it into one.

Matthew 18:7 is instructive here: "Woe unto the world because of offenses; for it must needs be that offenses come, but woe to that man by whom the offense cometh."
post #18 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardeeharhar View Post

why does his pastor's words have anything to do with Obama himself?

Does Christianity somehow cause people to loose their ability to freely think?

Are they required to believe everything their pastor says?
.

Wait just a darn minute...

People on the right who go to church are excoriated for EXACTY these things. Those two things above are two of the most common slurs thrown at conservative people of faith. "Those damn religious wingers are moronic sheep, don't think for themselves, and blindly follow their pastors..."

And now, just because it is BHO... "Oh, that has nothing do do with Obama himself."

I love double standards. I want some in my Easter basket.
"Stand Up for Chuck"
"Stand Up for Chuck"
post #19 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellowship View Post

SDW2001 I hope you see that I have a balanced disdain for this kind of crap on both sides of the political spectrum... I know you must think I am only critical aganst all things Republican / Neocon etc.. But I hope you take note that indeed I share the love with all subjects / topics that rub me the wrong way.

Not trying to get a pat on the back here but I want it to be known I "share the love" with my criticisms.

I wish more people would be equally forceful with their scrutiny of all candidates.

If we don't speak out about what is wrong with this world nothing will ever change...

For the better that is..

Fellows


While I've been quite critical of you in the past, I have to say I really appreciate your candor on this issue. I know you've been supporting Obama, so when you say this gives you pause, it does say a lot.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
post #20 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by @_@ Artman View Post

What the fuck is going on here. I have posted links and sources to two, TWO fucking bat-shit crazy televangelists that endorse and morally support John McCain and neither you or even Fellowship won't respond about them.

They are racists, they are crazy, they want to wipe out another religious people...
THEY WANT THE WORLD TO END.


And both of you...sorry, but both of you SHEEP are getting suckered into the BULLSHIT.

1. Reverend Wright is Obama's FORMER pastor.
2. Not only had Reverend Wright advised Obama to keep his distance, Obama has himself removed him from his election committee.
3. This is a non-story. you both and all the other sheep are making it into one.

Matthew 18:7 is instructive here: "Woe unto the world because of offenses; for it must needs be that offenses come, but woe to that man by whom the offense cometh."

We're not talking about crazy televangelists. We're not talking about people that have endorsed someone or supported him. And we're not talking about the kind of comments his Wright made. It's that simple.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
post #21 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubelum View Post

Wait just a darn minute...

People on the right who go to church are excoriated for EXACTY these things. Those two things above are two of the most common slurs thrown at conservative people of faith. "Those damn religious wingers are moronic sheep, don't think for themselves, and blindly follow their pastors..."

And now, just because it is BHO... "Oh, that has nothing do do with Obama himself."

I love double standards. I want some in my Easter basket.

<makes popcorn, sits back>
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
post #22 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

We're not talking about crazy televangelists. We're not talking about people that have endorsed someone or supported him. And we're not talking about the kind of comments his Wright made. It's that simple.

Yep, nothing. You are talking about nothing. Why should I keep read nothings from you? Why should I contribute my thoughts and feelings on these issues when all I get is ignorance and stupidity?

I'm out of here. Taking a break from reading nothing from nothings like you.

From Fellowship's naivety to your supreme ignorance I've had enough.

Bye.
post #23 of 312
Funny. I didn't hear a damned thing about Hagee and McCain from Republicans on this board.
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
post #24 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubelum View Post

Wait just a darn minute...

People on the right who go to church are excoriated for EXACTY these things. Those two things above are two of the most common slurs thrown at conservative people of faith. "Those damn religious wingers are moronic sheep, don't think for themselves, and blindly follow their pastors..."

And now, just because it is BHO... "Oh, that has nothing do do with Obama himself."

I love double standards. I want some in my Easter basket.

i think you are making a leap of faith here...

i had a formal religious upbringing in conservative judaism -- i am what you can call a cultural jew, as i find both religion in general and faith in particular to be profoundly distasteful aspects of human nature. regardless, at no point have i ever assumed that christians are required to follow their church hook line and sinker. However, this is perhaps an idealized view of the religion as certain sects do in fact require people to have faith to that level. The requirement to believe in the literal interpretation du jour of the new testament is clear evidence to that effect.

you will find that like most things, the liberal view of the subject if far more nuanced than the conservative response...
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
post #25 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardeeharhar View Post

i think you are making a leap of faith here...

i had a formal religious upbringing in conservative judaism -- i am what you can call a cultural jew, as i find both religion in general and faith in particular to be profoundly distasteful aspects of human nature. regardless, at no point have i ever assumed that christians are required to follow their church hook line and sinker. However, this is perhaps an idealized view of the religion as certain sects do in fact require people to have faith to that level. The requirement to believe in the literal interpretation du jour of the new testament is clear evidence to that effect.

you will find that like most things, the liberal view of the subject if far more nuanced than the conservative response...

Ahhhhh.... "nuance" - the last arrogant semantic refuge of yet another indefensible liberal double standard. But hey... whatever. I just wonder if you were speaking of a conservative candidate if your take on the matter would be different. I was not so much making a direct critique of your post, rather of the sentiment that is rooted in a stunning double standard. We all know that part of the Dem strategery is to go directly at the same religious people they've been hostile to for years. If ya can't beat 'em, join 'em, as it were.

Brings up another question... is Obama is somehow shielded from this "mindless following" and "not thinking for himself" danger inherent in Christianity simply because he is liberal and "nuanced"?

Reminds me of one of adda's finest moments... "Republican Jesus fights terror and fags. Democrat Jesus is a trick to raise taxes to buy trinkets for Negroes."

And for the record, and true to my handle, I must state that I believe that religion and the state DO belong apart, respecting both the establishment AND the free exercise clause. We're at a stage of hot-button hysteria on the former, and almost completely ignore the latter when it comes to religious freedom in public settings.
"Stand Up for Chuck"
"Stand Up for Chuck"
post #26 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by @_@ Artman View Post

Yep, nothing. You are talking about nothing. Why should I keep read nothings from you? Why should I contribute my thoughts and feelings on these issues when all I get is ignorance and stupidity?

I'm out of here. Taking a break from reading nothing from nothings like you.

From Fellowship's naivety to your supreme ignorance I've had enough.

Bye.

Don't wory about this Artman! This really is a nonstory and won't make a jot of difference. Trust me this campaign is just starting to get nasty and will probably get worse as time goes on. In the face of things the conservatives are desperate and will try anything.

So I imagine when you don't have much to work with and there's so much stuff on the other side to work with this is just the start.

It won't have any effect though. People out there want change and McCain ain't it.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
post #27 of 312
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

While I've been quite critical of you in the past, I have to say I really appreciate your candor on this issue. I know you've been supporting Obama, so when you say this gives you pause, it does say a lot.


Thank you SDW2001.

It really bothers me what ShawnJ said in his post about me being a fence sitter...

He knows I have reasons for my views and I am saddened he thinks I was for Obama as some kind of show... and now I "can't" be upset about something which I should be dissapointed in when it comes to Obama...

Grow up Shawn.

I have every right to be dissappointed with this sorry Church Obama has been going to for 20 years.

I still have favorable thoughts of Obama and am not convinced that he would be bad for the country or anything like that but COME ON SHAWN

Look at the words out of this pastor... It really is a shame Obama would be entangled with such a bad Church and I can't believe you don't have the balls to say that as well..

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
post #28 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by @_@ Artman View Post

I call total complete bullshit.

Why hasn't the MSM focused on especially these two either? Certainly not because Obama is ahead and leading his party, McCain WON his party nomination. So why isn't the MSM railing him on his endorsements to these nut-jobs?

I'll see your bullshit and raise you a distortion.

If we're going to use "endorsements" then I get to bring up Farrahkhan. It's only fair.

Politicians cannot control who endorses them. As for Hagee, he is/was a supporter of the Huckster, and Huckabee even preached there late last year. Who else, pray tell, is Hagee going to endorse... someone from the pro-abortion party with some members who are bopping over to Syria on vacation? Come on here, what do you expect him to do? He's just Hagee the proud Zionist. He's a known quantity.

In this case, it is Obama's PASTOR, the LEADER, not some five-times removed endorsement. To my knowledge, McCain has never been a member of Parsely's or Hagee's churches.
"Stand Up for Chuck"
"Stand Up for Chuck"
post #29 of 312
The difference is that McCain sought Hagee's endorsement.

Oof, right?
post #30 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubelum View Post

Ahhhhh.... "nuance" - the last arrogant semantic refuge of yet another indefensible liberal double standard.

Nah, it just so happens that some people have evolved the ability to hold multiple views on the same subject. i know it baffles the mind of the non-nuanced thinker, but hang in there, maybe before you die you will have had the chance to hold one of these thoughts...
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
post #31 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShawnJ View Post

The difference is that McCain sought Hagee's endorsement.

Oof, right?

Um, I just told you why... there was a race, a competition, remember? Huckabee? McCain?
We all lined up and voted, there were pretty red, white, and blue streamers everywhere, and even a poster of the Republican Jesus.
"Stand Up for Chuck"
"Stand Up for Chuck"
post #32 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardeeharhar View Post

Nah, it just so happens that some people have evolved the ability to hold multiple views on the same subject. i know it baffles the mind of the non-nuanced thinker, but hang in there, maybe before you die you will have had the chance to hold one of these thoughts...

Go forth, great hardeeharhar, continue as a legend in your own mind...

Every time a conservative tries to explain a nuanced position, even one that explains their own moderating views, it gets jumped on here by the Usual Suspects.

I have plenty of "nuanced" positions... I just don't attempt to use the term as some faux-moral high ground from which to condescend to others. Nor do I use the term to deflect attention from a double standard that is right out there in front for everyone to see.

I have many views on many aspects of a lot of different topics... so if that is is where you want to set the bar on "nuance" I've had you covered for awhile now. The truth is that us people that lean right are just as confused, and in many cases as conflicted, as them folks on the left.
"Stand Up for Chuck"
"Stand Up for Chuck"
post #33 of 312
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShawnJ View Post

The difference is that McCain sought Hagee's endorsement.

Oof, right?

Shawn I still like Obama and feel he is still the same smart, talented, future of the Democratic party but I must say you are a sack of crap if you can't admit the obvious due to your blind loyalty to all things "democratic party" if you can not speak out against the comments his Pastor made.

God Damn America?

United States of Amerikkk a

This is not even funny. If it were Parsley or Hagee I would be just as repulsed.

I suppose you don't read any of my other posts where I roast over the coals this kind of thing when it is a republican candidate who receives an endorsement ..


Why don't you come out of your comfort zone a little and learn it is "ok" to be upset at things which are really extreme and disrespectful to our country and God.

This is not about some kind of "free pass" context either...

It was just wrong like you pointed out with me when I used the b word with Hillary in another thread.

In that thread you spoke out and I was proud of you because you know what? ... You were right in that thread that I should not use such language as "angry B word" regarding Hillary.

I just wish you could be more universal in your judgement and not give a pass to certain figures who in your mind do no wrong....

Again I don't think Obama did anything wrong perhapse aside from attending a sorry Church.

It is a free country and he has every right to go to such a place but for you not to be repulsed by the words of his pastor / former pastor is telling that you play favorites and suspend harsh critisism when it is your side.

This is what has pissed me off about so many republicans too....

They give a free pass if it is someone on their side.

We all need to progress beyond this "loyalty" based on strict party lines.. and realize it is ok to call people out when something is out of place...

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
post #34 of 312
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by @_@ Artman View Post


From Fellowship's naivety to your supreme ignorance I've had enough.

Bye.

The lasty thing I want is my friend Artman to be upset at me.. I want you to know I mean that and I don't think of Obama in a bad way due to this. I worry that others are going to take the bait.

If anything I am upset that Obama did not realize that this kind of Pastor if any media people did any digging at all would turn up this stuff which has been turned up.

Why would he be proud to tell so many he has been going to this Church for 20 years..

To answer my own question I think he was framed into having to tell people about his "christian" church when so many assholes were trying to make out he was really a muslim when of course he is not.

It really is sad he had to defend his Christian faith with all the lemmings out there who want to spread fear and lie about his being a Muslim when he is a Christian.

So this is a sort of shame that his pastor has these kinds of outbursts.

I still like Obama and not for one second do I think he is as stupid as his pastor seems to be to me.

I think Obama would be good for this country and I also agree that McCain is not what this country wants.

I am sorry if I was irritated about this sorry sorry Pastor...

I was 3 times sorry because it was Obama we are talking about here and I just would never expect Obama to attend this kind of place.

I might expect other types to go to such a place but... Obama?

I set some very high standards for this guy

Why? Because I think he is the real deal and at the right time.

Artman.... I am Not for McCain and I NEVER will be...

I am not a fence sitter here one bit.

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
post #35 of 312
Fellowship, slow down.

.B

..R

...E

....A

.....T

......H

.......E.

And calmly explain in a coherent paragraph or two why you find Obama's Pastor's statements so objectionable. (Maybe it's a good idea to refer to those statements so we know what you're talking about). Thanks.
post #36 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubelum View Post

Go forth, great hardeeharhar, continue as a legend in your own mind...

Every time a conservative tries to explain a nuanced position, even one that explains their own moderating views, it gets jumped on here by the Usual Suspects.

I have plenty of "nuanced" positions... I just don't attempt to use the term as some faux-moral high ground from which to condescend to others. Nor do I use the term to deflect attention from a double standard that is right out there in front for everyone to see.

I have many views on many aspects of a lot of different topics... so if that is is where you want to set the bar on "nuance" I've had you covered for awhile now. The truth is that us people that lean right are just as confused, and in many cases as conflicted, as them folks on the left.

you know i am just playing with you, right?
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
post #37 of 312
Thread Starter 
Shawn I took a viewing of his pastor in full swing. Did you see the clip? My reaction was horror. Pure horror. Now I do realize that if I were more liberal I could be less sensitive to such wording and such but it really did not strike me as a pastor or a Church which is inspirational or motivating. In fact the language used actually did offend me. This Church seems to arouse people with the rhetoric they spew. I just thought to myself in horror "This is where Obama goes to church?" Again maybe it is fully my very own fault that I have placed Barack Obama on a very high pedestal and this clip of this pastor and this Church did not dovetail with my notions of Barack Obama. I just had to almost choke to think that Obama could possibly go to this Church.

I have taken a deep breath and things are going to be OK.

I just think America needs to move in a positive direction and in my view that pastor needs to progress with better words to make his points and for the same reasons you set me straight about some of my language in a recent thread.

It is the right thing to do in this time in which we live.

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
post #38 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellowship View Post

I just think America needs to move in a positive direction and in my view that pastor needs to progress with better words to make his points and for the same reasons you set me straight about some of my language in a recent thread.

Alright, I see where you're coming from.

There does seem to be a disconnect between Wright's inflammatory rhetoric and Obama's approach. You'd think he'd attend a church with a preacher more like MLK, right? I can see that. But I think this is just a style problem, though. It's really the way Wright says things sometimes that causes problems, rather than something wrong with the ideas he's trying to convey. His rhetoric is caustic and narrowly appealing whereas Obama's is hopeful and as broadly appealing as possible.
post #39 of 312
Here's the explanation Obama should give to get rid of the problem:

"I disagree with the political views of my pastor. These simply don't come up in church gatherings. My pastor is one of the most kind hearted people I've ever met, the kind of person anyone would trust to leave their kids with or to go into a business with. He is a great man on a personal level. This is different from the political level where he has let his frustration with the current state of black America get in the way of fairly analyzing the system. We all know people who are great, trustworthy people on a personal level but can be wacky when it comes to politics. We can admire them on a personal level, but roll our eyes when it comes to their solutions to political problems."
post #40 of 312
I like it.

It works because what the Pastor's saying at its core isn't really objectionable. If he said something like "Catholicism is the Great Satan" or "Islam and Judaism are false religions" and Obama actually sought the endorsement of a person with those views, then it's not so easily explainable away.
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