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If Obama is the Democrat against McCain this could ruin his campaign. - Page 8  

post #281 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

They didn't claim outright they were superior but instead only stereotyped with negative connotations.

Sounds to me like he's just talking about structural racism.

That America benefits white Americans to the detriment of black Americans.

I'd like to see his comments in context, though. I can't find anything online.
post #282 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

You guys are all arguing with Trumptman based on the assumption that he actually believes the shit he's peddling. He's playing a game. He knows it. It's the same exact "Gored" and "Purple Heart Band-Aids" from 2000 and 2004.

We all know how much Trumpt loves a phony thought experiment.
A good brain ain't diddly if you don't have the facts
A good brain ain't diddly if you don't have the facts
post #283 of 312
trumptman:

Quote:
I spelled it out.

No, you didn't. You can't put two quotes next to each other that show a contradiction. All you can do is restate your argument (without evidence) and insult me. That is a weak form of argumentation and not a convincing one to people who require evidence.

I can make my argument without resorting to pure childishness and spite, you cannot. That is illustrative of the overall quality of our respective arguments.
proud resident of a failed state
proud resident of a failed state
post #284 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

What the hell does it mean? I explained it to you.

Obviously not well enough for my poor lil' ol' brain to get. Could you try again? How, precisely, does someone calling an institution racist make that person a racist.

Quote:
You intentionally attempt to obscure the definition of racism to the point of being useless. I suppose if someone claims certain groups love fried chicken and watermelon that isn't racist to you anymore because you know... they didn't name the group and instead only eluded to it. They didn't claim outright they were superior but instead only stereotyped with negative connotations.

I don't even know what you're talking about anymore. How does calling an institution racist make the person a racist for calling it so?
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
post #285 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by midwinter View Post

How, precisely, does someone calling an institution racist make that person a racist.

Man, you really are dense!

It's clear that all you have to do is:
  • "Taking a phrase,

    You have to take a phrase, man.

  • turning it into a racist slur

    Then you have to turn that phrase into a racist slur!

  • and then assigning that phrase to someone or a group

    Then you have to assign that phrase (which is now a racist slur) to someone (or a group for good measure).

  • is the same thing as calling that person or group the slur."

    And then it's the same exact thing as calling that person (or group) the slur.

What could be clearer than that?

post #286 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShawnJ View Post

Man, you really are dense!

It's clear that all you have to do is:
  • "Taking a phrase,

    You have to take a phrase, man.

  • turning it into a racist slur

    Then you have to turn that phrase into a racist slur!

  • and then assigning that phrase to someone or a group

    Then you have to assign that phrase (which is now a racist slur) to someone (or a group for good measure).

  • is the same thing as calling that person or group the slur."

    And then it's the same exact thing as calling that person (or group) the slur.

What could be clearer than that?


Soca, his eyes open!

I totally get it now!
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
post #287 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

Plenty of White people support Obama, plenty of Black people support Hillary and McCain.

There is no need to start accusing posters of racism simply because they don't see things your way.

No the really sad part about this is two-fold.

First I can someone to take an action and that has now become an ad-hom around here for which I was given a warning. I say this because I will no longer be addressing any of Groverat's points publically because when you disagree with him it has become an ad-hom. Acts are now names in his brain.

Yet I could lay down money right now that Frank did not receive a warning for the ad-hom of calling me a racist. I know I would win that money easily.

Frank, I have about 25% of my nieces and nephews who are of the exact same racial make-up as Obama. They are my family and I assure you that I treat them better than Obama treats his own grandmother.

So thanks for insulting my family. Thanks for insulting me in suggesting I am scared of my own family. Thanks for your continual attacks and claims based off nothing more than trying to win some point when your brain clearly cannot process the informatino anymore.

Thanks.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

post #288 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by groverat View Post

trumptman:



No, you didn't. You can't put two quotes next to each other that show a contradiction. All you can do is restate your argument (without evidence) and insult me. That is a weak form of argumentation and not a convincing one to people who require evidence.

I can make my argument without resorting to pure childishness and spite, you cannot. That is illustrative of the overall quality of our respective arguments.

I would love to address this but

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

post #289 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by midwinter View Post

Soca, his eyes open!

Shouldn't that be 'Sukat, his eyes uncovered!' Misquoting preachers is one thing. Misquoting Trek is another.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
post #290 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by midwinter View Post

Obviously not well enough for my poor lil' ol' brain to get. Could you try again? How, precisely, does someone calling an institution racist make that person a racist.

I don't even know what you're talking about anymore. How does calling an institution racist make the person a racist for calling it so?

Because the person who is calling that institution racist believes the people he is speaking to are so disenfranchised by that institution that they are not members of it and this calling it racist amounts to calling the enfranchised or privileged members racists.

I asked a simple question and you and no one else has answered it. When Wright said United States of KKK-A does he include himself, his congregation and Barack Obama in that institution.

Of course he doesn't. His quote is as follows:

And they will not only attack you if you try to point out what's going on in white America, the U.S. of KKK A."

The point is ridiculous. I suppose "white america" is now an institution whereas black america is now a race and this discussing it is racism.

I mean seriously... what don't you get?

Oh and when I say what don't you get... I mean that in a really nice way because asking you about your thoughts and actions on here, or telling you to take certain actions is an ad-hom when it comes from me.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

post #291 of 312
Does anyone, even a Jube, Mydo, e#s, or Frank, understand a word of that?
post #292 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

No the really sad part about this is two-fold.So thanks for insulting my family. Thanks for insulting me in suggesting I am scared of my own family. Thanks for your continual attacks and claims based off nothing more than trying to win some point

Seems like you should know exactly how Obama feels then. The irony is killing me.
A good brain ain't diddly if you don't have the facts
A good brain ain't diddly if you don't have the facts
post #293 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Because the person who is calling that institution racist believes the people he is speaking to are so disenfranchised by that institution that they are not members of it and this calling it racist amounts to calling the enfranchised or privileged members racists.

I don't get this. At all. How does Wright saying
Quote:
And they will not only attack you if you try to point out what's going on in white America, the U.S. of KKK A."

make him a racist?
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
post #294 of 312
Quote:
Because the person who is calling that institution racist believes the people he is speaking to are so disenfranchised by that institution that they are not members of it and this calling it racist amounts to calling the enfranchised or privileged members racists.

That logic is highly convoluted.
proud resident of a failed state
proud resident of a failed state
post #295 of 312
Okay that last post was my second to last post.

What Wright is saying, for that refuse to understand, is that "white america", that is all white people in america, is inherently racist and that being white in america is equivalent to being a member of the KKK.

I think that is racist of Wright to label all whites in america is racists and imply that we are all members of the KKK. It goes without saying that many whites are racist and very small fraction are members of the KKK. It is racist of him to slander all whites as hate mongers and members of the KKK.

You may not agree but that's the thrust of the argument. Understand?

Disclaimer
Don't confuse my criticism of Wright as not supporting Obama. I support Obama. I will vote for Obama. You people are in some kind of Obama frenzy where no one can say anything that would cost Obama votes without being burned like a hieratic. You're almost as bad as the Ron Paul nutters. Obama is right but Wright was wrong.
post #296 of 312
Quote:
You people are in some kind of Obama frenzy where no one can say anything that would cost Obama votes without being burned like a hieratic.

This argument is used in lieu of real ones, I think. I could turn that around, if I so wished, and say something asinine like, Anyone who disagrees with Obama only does so because they are racist!!!, and if I put it in bold with a big font it suddenly gains credibility, right?

He is an imperfect candidate, so attack him on something real.
proud resident of a failed state
proud resident of a failed state
post #297 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by mydo View Post

What Wright is saying, for that refuse to understand, is that "white america", that is all white people in america, is inherently racist and that being white in america is equivalent to being a member of the KKK.

I don't think that's what he said at all. I think "white America" does not mean "all white people." He seems to me to be talking about institutions and cultures, not individual. "White America" and the "US of KKK A" is a comment about power structures in America being white and inherently racist.

Quote:
I think that is racist of Wright to label all whites in america is racists and imply that we are all members of the KKK. It goes without saying that many whites are racist and very small fraction are members of the KKK. It is racist of him to slander all whites as hate mongers and members of the KKK.

Again. I don't think that's what his comment means. But additionally, I don't think it makes him a racist to say that other people are racists.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
post #298 of 312
Quote:
The point is ridiculous. I suppose "white america" is now an institution whereas black america is now a race and this discussing it is racism

.

What a stunningly clueless remark.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
post #299 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by midwinter View Post

I don't think that's what he said at all. I think "white America" does not mean "all white people." He seems to me to be talking about institutions and cultures, not individual. "White America" and the "US of KKK A" is a comment about power structures in America being white and inherently racist.

Okay so which white people are "white america" and which are not? The institutions and cultures are made up of individuals. So is he talking about me and my family or other white people? I think you made my point for by saying that "white and inherently racist". So is Wright saying that "white" is "inherently racist"? Obviously I think he is.



Quote:
Originally Posted by midwinter View Post

Again. I don't think that's what his comment means. But additionally, I don't think it makes him a racist to say that other people are racists.

Obviously it can be a factual statement or a broad stereotype. In this case I think it's a broad stereotype to paint whites as racists.
post #300 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by groverat View Post

This argument is used in lieu of real ones,

It's not an argument but an observation of the people that post here.


Quote:
Originally Posted by groverat View Post

I think. I could turn that around, if I so wished, and say something asinine like, Anyone who disagrees with Obama only does so because they are racist!!!, and if I put it in bold with a big font it suddenly gains credibility, right?

He is an imperfect candidate, so attack him on something real.


That's kind of the point of my disclaimer. I'm not "attacking" Obama. Is that how you see it. It's either "support" or "attack" for you? If I'm critical of Wright then I'm "attacking" Obama? If I'm critical of Obama for his association with Wright that's "attacking" him?

Can't I be critical and support him? Or should I just ECHO ECHO ECHO ECHO?
post #301 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by mydo View Post

Okay so which white people are "white america" and which are not?

The senate comes to mind. I would imagine that it might be worth mentioning that for a while Barack Obama was the only black senator. One.

One guess what these three names have in common:

Carol Mosely Braun
Edward Brooke
Barack Obama

Give up? They're the only three black senators since Reconstruction ended.

Quote:
The institutions and cultures are made up of individuals.

I would argue that in many cases the individuals are there to keep the institutions going, not the other way around.

Quote:
So is he talking about me and my family or other white people?

I don't know. Ever passed over hiring someone just because he was black? If you have, he's talking about you. Have a country club in your town? Lot of black folks members? Date a lot of black girls in high school? Go ask your friends at work how many are dating black girls.

I seem to remember early in Tiger Woods's ascension something about him winning at Augusta when he was barred from membership simply because he wasn't white. You think people who are members at Augusta have any power? You think they might command institutions? Determine hiring practices? You think it's important that they have a little club where they can go and not have to mingle with folks who aren't like them?

Quote:
I think you made my point for by saying that "white and inherently racist". So is Wright saying that "white" is "inherently racist"? Obviously I think he is.

I said the institution is a) white and b) inherently racist. I did not say that white = racist. Although I could probably mount that argument if you wanted me to.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
post #302 of 312
"I think 'white' represents the purity of the souls of Americans, while "KKK" implies the false path our nation has taken spiritually." </dmz writing lit paper>

I think we're reading a lot into this.
post #303 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Yet I could lay down money right now that Frank did not receive a warning for the ad-hom of calling me a racist. I know I would win that money easily.

Frank, I have about 25% of my nieces and nephews who are of the exact same racial make-up as Obama. They are my family and I assure you that I treat them better than Obama treats his own grandmother.

So thanks for insulting my family. Thanks for insulting me in suggesting I am scared of my own family. Thanks for your continual attacks and claims based off nothing more than trying to win some point when your brain clearly cannot process the informatino anymore.

Thanks.

... you seem to be getting a little bit too emotional and personal for me to deal with. \

In fact, you haven't even addressed the major point of my main previous post, you remember the one dealing with me "moving the goal posts."

BTW, I've already received a demerit earlier in this thread for using a certain offensive word that relates to the majority of those living in the USofA.
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
post #304 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

BTW, I've already received a demerit earlier in this thread for using a certain offensive word that relates to the majority of those living in the USofA.

"Gangly"?
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
post #305 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by midwinter View Post

"Gangly"?

[CENTER][/CENTER]

and is in no way related to this,

[CENTER][/CENTER]

or this,

[CENTER][/CENTER]

or this,

[CENTER][/CENTER]

or this,

[CENTER][/CENTER]

but it is an integral part of our American heritage spanning several centuries. In fact, it's a type of fish

[CENTER][/CENTER]

used as a slang term for a certain gender body part.
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
post #306 of 312
Oooh!

Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
post #307 of 312
Hmmm

post #308 of 312
Race. A topic so vexed, it must be addressed via rebuses.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
post #309 of 312
this thread needs to be closed with a ten foot pole...
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
post #310 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardeeharhar View Post

this thread needs to be closed with a ten foot pole...

[CENTER][/CENTER]

... and I tell you what, it's hot and humid down here in the summertime.
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
post #311 of 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardeeharhar View Post

this thread needs to be closed with a ten foot pole...

True.

And then this just becomes part of the narrative of certain posters here: "Ha, you say racism? Didn't seem to bother Obama when he attended a church with a racist pastor! H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-T-E!!!"
post #312 of 312
I just so happen to have a ten foot pole.


awwww yeaaaaah
proud resident of a failed state
proud resident of a failed state
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