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Apple leaves would-be iPhone developers hanging for the moment - Page 2

post #41 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveGee View Post

I'm not usually a picker of nits but... 0 and 7?!

Dave

Hi didn't say what the OS was ...
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
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Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
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post #42 of 135
Deleted post.
post #43 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by godrifle View Post

BeatlesOS.

very clever ... like it.
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Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
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post #44 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

4. Its called a beta

No, this is whining pure and simple.

No, According to wikipedia (my bold):

Quote:
A beta version is the first version released outside the organization or community that develops the software, for the purpose of evaluation or real-world black/grey-box testing. The process of delivering a beta version to the users is called beta release. Beta level software generally includes all features, but may also include known issues and bugs of a less serious variety.

The missing pieces in the SDK, the restrictions of the simulator, the lack of real device testing, etc... give developers no way to test some apps.

The current SDK is not beta!
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post #45 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

Since when has Apple been perceived as communicative and friendly corporation? We love Apple for what the do but rarely for the way they do it. In fact the whining from the gallery seems a constant that has been there for as long as I can remember. The thing is that Apple always do whatever they want to, regardless. There is always a vocal group who disagree and feel hard done by but at the same time it is this often frustrating insistence on doing everything their own way which makes them unique, innovative, and mucho loved. I can't recall a single product 'the gallery' hasn't moaned about, and yet.... Lets face it, we're a bunch of suckers. Happy suckers, but sucker nonetheless. I have learned to shrug it off and move on. There is only one thing I have a hard time getting over and that is that way back when, before I had a clue about anything, I didn't get a job, save all my money and buy Apple stock. I mean, I SHOULD HAVE KNOWN!

Great post paxman. Right on the money. Some people here actually view Apple as the Grail and that Stevie Boy as King Author. Steve Jobs' first and foremost loyalty is to the current Mrs. Jobs, the shareholders, and probably his kids. If Stevie Mock-Turtle could get these same devotees to purchase iOxygen for $400, and then purchase iOxygen 2 with Smog 1.0 for $500, they would and claim that Apple is once again an innovator and that Steve has done it again. Considering the fact that Apple is a hardware company, I can not see why they did not release their hardware (iPhone) on a larger scale. Maybe they were waiting to see it would sell beyond the typical zealot base.
post #46 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

After all, no one is going to convince me that XCode was a final release product when it came out and I don't recall it having a limited rollout.

Fire up XCode & do an About Xcode...

XCode 3.1 (beta)

Same with IB

Interface Builder 3.1 ( 644)

...Interesting
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post #47 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

Great post paxman. Right on the money. Some people here actually view Apple as the Grail and that Stevie Boy as King Author..

I think King 'Author' is Stephen King ...
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Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
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post #48 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimUrban View Post

1. Apple stated they're initially limiting the number of accepted developers.
2. Apparently that number has been reached.
3. Subsequent applications are being rejected,for now.
4. Why is it so difficult to grasp this concept.

Because, since the launch of OSX (as long as I have followed Apple) they have embraced developers, helping anyone who would join adc, and giving the rest the keys to the kingdom via free dev tools and sdks, and now they are holding out on their devs...the people that make their platforms appeal to the masses...imagine a Mac with only a few big shops like MS and EA making apps, no "small ISVs"

that is what this is doing to the iphone, will the rejects be interested when Apple comes a ringing or will they move on to the next project?

as an iphone owner, this pisses me off: I want all of the little people to have the SDK...I want those cool little apps that make life better, that is a huge reason why I use a mac and not Windows
You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
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You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
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post #49 of 135
Two top apple excecs said that the SDK was availible to EVERYONE...if that is not true, someone should do what everyone else in business does...call the SEC and report stock price manipulation then sue the f******s for fraud
You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
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You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
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post #50 of 135
I've been a Beta Tester for several software companies over the years.

Sometimes I got in on time, and sometimes I didn't.

Now when I didn't, I stopped using that software because I was pissed (Not really).

ALL Software companies can only handle so many "Beta Testers" and after they have what they are looking for the rest of us just have to wait and hope next time, to get in earlt enough, or be LUCKY enough to be one of the select few.

It sucks, not having access to the latest and great toys BEFORE anyone else, but sometimes sh&t happens get over it.

Should Apple have said at the meeting "We will accept the first 100 (or whatever the number would be) testers for now" - maybe

Should Apple have said "We will go over each application carefully, and will accept them based on our current needs". "We see Apple taking (X number) of applications in the first round, and (x number) in the second round" - I'm sure folks would be a bit less pissed if they had, but some would still not have made it, and they would still complain.

Skip
post #51 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

The missing pieces in the SDK, the restrictions of the simulator, the lack of real device testing,

First of all, Wikipedia shouldn't be considered a primary source. It's easy for anyone with an agenda to tweak things to fit their biases or limited perspective on an issue.

What's missing again? I don't know what you mean by the simulator restrictions, unless you mean you're disappointed that you are restricted to testing on the simulator. The inability to test it on the actual device is a disappointment, but we don't know if that's the way they intend to put in the finished release or not.
post #52 of 135
I got one of these emails. I didn't see it as a rejection. In fact nothing in the letter states that the applicant has been rejected.

I have yet to see or hear of anybody who actually was billed $99 and got their developer key. So if you're reading this, and you were ACCEPTED please post, because I think folks have jumped to an incorrect conclusion here.
post #53 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

First of all, Wikipedia shouldn't be considered a primary source. It's easy for anyone with an agenda to tweak things to fit their biases or limited perspective on an issue.

What's missing again? I don't know what you mean by the simulator restrictions, unless you mean you're disappointed that you are restricted to testing on the simulator. The inability to test it on the actual device is a disappointment, but we don't know if that's the way they intend to put in the finished release or not.

Missing from the SDK:

1) Interface Builder

Simulator does not support:

1) Camera
2) Microphone
3) Accelerometers
4) OpenGL ES
5) Ability to simulate, say, receiving a Phone call
6) Vibration -- one developer has written a haptic keyboard for a Jailbroken iPhone
7) Locater

That's a beginning... there are prolly other limitations!

The simulator is good, as far as it goes... but there is no substitute for seeing how well/fast the UI and your app works, plays with others, looks and feels on a real device.

The docs discuss the missing pieces and limitations but provide no guidance to workarounds.

Many of the sample programs that Apple provides will not run on the simulator!.

I suggest that you download the SDK, sample programs and try the Simulator, yourself!

Finally, I picked Wikipedia as a source because:

--it is generally accepted
--it doesn't have a vested interest in this, or any other, beta process ...as many of us do


"A positive attitude may not solve all your
problems, but it will annoy enough people to make
it worth the effort." - Herm Albright -
"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -
"He who laughs, lasts!" - Mary Pettibone Poole -
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post #54 of 135
I have an idea for budding iPhone developers. Create an app that knows your AT&T plan, and can alert you whenever you're close to or have actually exceeded your plan minutes for the month and end up talking your head off at 45 cents per minute. With so many variables (night and weekend, AT&T to AT&T calls, rollover, etc.) it is relatively easy to do that. I should know. After being on the road for close to a month and calling home and clients quite a bit, I return home to find not our normal $93.54 bill awaiting me, but rather one for $417.17. Ouch!
post #55 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelb View Post

Because:

1. Apple announced the SDK in October 2007 for a planned February release date.
2. The recent SDK presentation received an enormous amount of hype, top billing on apple.com etc.
3. The SDK had both missed the planned February release date and turned out to be still in Beta form.
4. The downloadable SDK is largely incomplete for being able to be used to test applications: no transfer to device for testing the key areas of iPhone usage such touch UI, OpenGL ES graphics, and accelerometer interactions.
5. The majority of developers have been denied access to the full form beta SDK and appear to be out of luck until June.
6. They are frustrated from being to made to wait even longer for something they thought they would be getting in Feb.

While I understand Apple's tardiness and willingness to keep tight security around their upcoming firmware release and certificate keys, I can also understand the whining.

What I don't understand is why everyone expects Apple to be perfect. Haven't you heard how much overtime these guys do to get products out? The iPhone is a developing product and has not even been out for a year. This is Apple's newest product and they are not going to mess up just to please a few impatient developers. You all will be grumbling if mistakes are made by rushing out a product. The iPhone and it's derivates will be around for 10 years or more. There's plenty of time to do cool stuff. Think of the future like Apple do.
post #56 of 135
Over 100,000 downloads the first week. Assume 10% asked to be in on the developer club...that's 10,000 people. Would you like to be the guy having to deal with 10,000 individuals? I would think it would do exactly the opposite of facilitation...it would actually slow things down. I think I'd prefer a small cache of proven track individuals/companies who's opinion and expertise I could trust...cuts down on time and resources.
post #57 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_greer View Post

Two top apple excecs said that the SDK was availible to EVERYONE...if that is not true, someone should do what everyone else in business does...call the SEC and report stock price manipulation then sue the f******s for fraud

After all that is being said, are you stating that the SDK is not available to everyone?

If so, you are lying.
post #58 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelb View Post

Because:

1. Apple announced the SDK in October 2007 for a planned February release date.
2. The recent SDK presentation received an enormous amount of hype, top billing on apple.com etc.
3. The SDK had both missed the planned February release date and turned out to be still in Beta form.
4. The downloadable SDK is largely incomplete for being able to be used to test applications: no transfer to device for testing the key areas of iPhone usage such touch UI, OpenGL ES graphics, and accelerometer interactions.
5. The majority of developers have been denied access to the full form beta SDK and appear to be out of luck until June.
6. They are frustrated from being to made to wait even longer for something they thought they would be getting in Feb.

While I understand Apple's tardiness and willingness to keep tight security around their upcoming firmware release and certificate keys, I can also understand the whining.


I can't, show me a company out there offering a better solution for mobile app developers to get in the money making game. If you do find one then stop whining about Apple's decisions & go make money with them.

Apple can do whatever they so choose & it isn't their problem you have no idea what it is like to run such a large & successful company. Take the whining somewhere else; maybe to Microsoft, I'm sure they'll be willing to stroke your ego.
post #59 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

A number of applicants to Apple's official iPhone Developer program are venting their frustration with the company after having received temporary rejection letters on Friday.

A rejection letter? Temporary or otherwise, you have to be kidding.

Perhaps somebody should have looked up the definition of a rejection letter. Which by the way,
is a form of communication, print or otherwise, indicating the refusal of assent (viz: rejection) of a recommended course.

In this case, there is no official refusal of agreement or sanction. All the email is doing, is informing a registered iPhone developer, (as indicated in the salutation, i.e., “Dear Registered iPhone Developer), that the program is momentarily limited but being expanded over the next 3-4 months, and that they will contact the registrant again about their enrollment.

Nothing nefarious implied here.

Certainly one should realize that the registration to the Program will be followed up by a request to fill out a formal comprehensive application, plus an intention of, or payment. Until such time, there is no decision of acceptance or rejection of anybody being made.

And for those who still haven't gotten it, the SDK still remains free and available to everybody who applies and registers themself as an iPhone Developer. Regardless what he/she wants to do with it.
post #60 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

No, According to wikipedia (my bold):

Quote:
A beta version is the first version released outside the organization or community that develops the software, for the purpose of evaluation or real-world black/grey-box testing. The process of delivering a beta version to the users is called beta release. Beta level software generally includes all features, but may also include known issues and bugs of a less serious variety.

The missing pieces in the SDK, the restrictions of the simulator, the lack of real device testing, etc... give developers no way to test some apps.

The current SDK is not beta!

1) Using Wikipedia as a starting source is fine, but using it at as a definitive authority to prove your point is deficient.

2) The text you specifically bolded uses the adverb "generally". That means "in most cases"; it does not mean "in every case".

3) There are companies/individuals who have the iPhone 2.0 software available to test out apps directly on the device. You not being approved by Apple does not make the SDK or the Mobile OS X firmware any less of a Beta.


edit: JeffDM beat me to it.
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #61 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

1) Using Wikipedia as a starting source is fine, but using it at as a definitive authority to prove your point is deficient.

2) The text you specifically bolded uses the adverb "generally". That means "in most cases"; it does not mean "in every case".

3) There are companies/individuals who have the iPhone 2.0 software available to test out apps directly on the device. You not being approved by Apple does not make the SDK or the Mobile OS X firmware any less of a Beta.


edit: JeffDM beat me to it.

First, whether I received approval, or not, is not the issue... it is the utility of the SDK for the purpose for which it is intended.

Do you have a reference establishing point 3-- that there are, in fact, companies/individuals that have the iPhone 2.0 software?

From the Mar 6 preso, I got the impression that all use of the SDK on the actual device was done on campus, e.g. flying in an extra developer to upgrade the graphics for MonkeyBall. Most of the enterprise developers were mentioned by quotation-- the exception being Epocrates.

My assumption is that the needs of enterprise developers were/are, mostly, satisfied by early release of the SDK and Simulator in their current state (these developers, likely, won't require the missing pieces for most of their apps.).

The telling issue, to me, is this: Apple says:

--our documentation is a work-in-process
--things are different than programming the Mac, especially the user interface
--by the way, the Interface Builder piece is missing
--there really are no tutorials or start-to-finish explanations of how to write a program
--here are some programs to show you how to do things
--here Is a Simulator that will show you what the programs do and how they run
--by the way, many of the programs will not run on the Simulator

I guess that means:

--look at the code to learn how to write your programs
--write your programs

Then, what?

If I am taking piano lessons, sooner or later I will need to see/hear how I am doing.

A more robust Simulator implementation would resolve many of the issues.
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post #62 of 135
So people think they download the SDK and have a piece of $100 million floated their way... give me a break. Is there a sense of entitlement that comes with the SDK?

To me Apple's response is very professional and does not constitute a rejection,,, it says some people didn't make it in the first pass and with 100,000 people downloading the SDK in the first days, it doesn't surprise me that Apple doesn't want or need everyone in a Beta release.
post #63 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave K. View Post

Worry more about the fact that Jobs is a liar. That will get Apple into more trouble than being perceived rude.

Don't start with this stupidity again.
post #64 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_greer View Post

Because, since the launch of OSX (as long as I have followed Apple) they have embraced developers, helping anyone who would join adc, and giving the rest the keys to the kingdom via free dev tools and sdks, and now they are holding out on their devs...the people that make their platforms appeal to the masses...imagine a Mac with only a few big shops like MS and EA making apps, no "small ISVs"

that is what this is doing to the iphone, will the rejects be interested when Apple comes a ringing or will they move on to the next project?

as an iphone owner, this pisses me off: I want all of the little people to have the SDK...I want those cool little apps that make life better, that is a huge reason why I use a mac and not Windows

Oh please!

I want. I want. I want.

If you think that this will turn any real developers off from writing programs, you're wrong.

Even if some feel dejected, they will change when they get "official" notice. After all they can write totheir heart's content right now. There's nothing that most developers need that wasn't included in the SDK download. You are missing the fact that the SDK IS available to everyone—even you!


More generally, not directed to you:

As for the $100 million, who here really thinks that it's going to be given out to those who apply first? This is an investment house. They are going to look at who is applying. They will evaluate the business plan, as well as any ideas, and work that is being done. They will decide that the individual, or company, is a good business investment, and will divvy up the money that way.

And as was also said, if more money is needed, it will be made available.

This isn't going to go to every person who has never done anything on record, and who has no idea of what a company is, or that its intent is to make money for those investing in it.

Count out most hobbyists.
post #65 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Missing from the SDK:

1) Interface Builder

Simulator does not support:

1) Camera
2) Microphone
3) Accelerometers
4) OpenGL ES
5) Ability to simulate, say, receiving a Phone call
6) Vibration -- one developer has written a haptic keyboard for a Jailbroken iPhone
7) Locater

That's a beginning... there are prolly other limitations!

The simulator is good, as far as it goes... but there is no substitute for seeing how well/fast the UI and your app works, plays with others, looks and feels on a real device.

The docs discuss the missing pieces and limitations but provide no guidance to workarounds.

Many of the sample programs that Apple provides will not run on the simulator!.

I suggest that you download the SDK, sample programs and try the Simulator, yourself!

Finally, I picked Wikipedia as a source because:

--it is generally accepted
--it doesn't have a vested interest in this, or any other, beta process ...as many of us do


"A positive attitude may not solve all your
problems, but it will annoy enough people to make
it worth the effort." - Herm Albright -

Despite what the Wiki says, this is a beta.

And no, beta's don't carry all of the features until the very last few. Smetimes not until the last one, before going golden master.

I've beta tested for Adobe since 1991, and They never have all the feature set in place until the end of the beta program, because they are still working on them.

Other companies are the same. Only relatively small programs can come complete by an early beta, if the company producing it is large enough.

A piano lesson is a totally inappropriate comparison.
post #66 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Despite what the Wiki says, this is a beta.

And no, beta's don't carry all of the features until the very last few. Smetimes not until the last one, before going golden master.

I've beta tested for Adobe since 1991, and They never have all the feature set in place until the end of the beta program, because they are still working on them.

Other companies are the same. Only relatively small programs can come complete by an early beta, if the company producing it is large enough.

A piano lesson is a totally inappropriate comparison.


It is a beta, because Apple says it is a beta, And Apple is an honorable company!

I, too have participated in betas-- some 40 years ago to present, most recently with Macromedia then Adobe.

But, they have been closed betas-- invitation only or pre-approval before you get the SDK, then massive support, discussion forums, etc. after you get the beta,

This, is a semi-public beta-- available to all comers with a simple signup... nobody can't download the SDK.

Is this a good beta-- a good move on Apple's part?

As an Apple follower since 1978 (bought almost all their products from Apple ][, Apple HiFi... down to the present!

As an AAPL shareholder (a significant part of my portfolio).

As an Apple developer since 2003.


My answer has to be: This is not good!

-- it will tarnish Apple in the eyes of potential developers looking at Apple as a development platform for the first time... Is that all there is? I can get the same treatment from _________________ (you fill in the blank)

--It will tarnish AAPL in the eyes of investors (it already has) who are beginning to tire from the mixed signals, missed deadlines, and half-kept promises made by Apple (think rollercoaster ride-- maybe time to get off).

--It has tarnished Apple in the eyes of this fanboy... Apple/AAPL can do better... much better! They are not MS, HP, Dell Adobe... for God's sake... this is Apple... we expect more!

A piano lesson is a good example-- one that anybody can understand and use... unlike the SDK!
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post #67 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

It is a beta, because Apple says it is a beta, And Apple is an honorable company!

Well, yes, it is a beta because Apple says it is. What do you expect? If there are no changes between now and late June, when it will be released in final form, then you can say that it wasn't a beta. Want to take a bet on that?

Quote:
I, too have participated in betas-- some 40 years ago to present, most recently with Macromedia then Adobe.

But, they have been closed betas-- invitation only or pre-approval before you get the SDK, then massive support, discussion forums, etc. after you get the beta,

Yes, most of the beta's I've participated in (beginning in the late '70's) have been closed as well. But not all. I've also done a number of open betas, where participants were asked for, and the download was just a click away.

Quote:
This, is a semi-public beta-- available to all comers with a simple signup... nobody can't download the SDK.

There's no dispute about that.

Quote:
Is this a good beta-- a good move on Apple's part?

As an Apple follower since 1978 (bought almost all their products from Apple ][, Apple HiFi... down to the present!

As an AAPL shareholder (a significant part of my portfolio).

As an Apple developer since 2003.


My answer has to be: This is not good!

-- it will tarnish Apple in the eyes of potential developers looking at Apple as a development platform for the first time... Is that all there is? I can get the same treatment from _________________ (you fill in the blank)

--It will tarnish AAPL in the eyes of investors (it already has) who are beginning to tire from the mixed signals, missed deadlines, and half-kept promises made by Apple (think rollercoaster ride-- maybe time to get off).

--It has tarnished Apple in the eyes of this fanboy... Apple/AAPL can do better... much better! They are not MS, HP, Dell Adobe... for God's sake... this is Apple... we expect more!

A piano lesson is a good example-- one that anybody can understand and use!

I don't agree with you here. There is no evidence that this has tarnished Apple in any way with investors, or developers. I'm one (investor, not developer), and have a fair amount of stock. I haven't read anything that would indicate that investment houses are telling their clients to dump Apple stock because Apple hasn't allowed everyone who downloaded the SDK from being signed up at this time. That would be a very foolish move.

I can understand that everyone wants to be in the first round. But everyone must understand that that can't be so. Apple has a limited amount of resources to allocate. More developers will be allowed in as they can accommodate them.

Piano lessons have nothing to do with this. You can't learn how to do the physical movements of your body without having a piano present to practice on. You can't practice the very difficult fingering without that piano, and do the couple of hours a day of practice required if you want to even become a mediocre player. That's assuming that you already know how to read music, of course.

But you can write programs, and test them, without having a physical phone to test them on, until the final revision. Since this was the beginning of March when the SDK was released, and Apple will no doubt release more advanced versions as they become available, and no one has these more advanced versions as far as we know, no one has much of an advantage over another right now. Having the ver 2 software to load on the phone at this point, may be nice, but it isn't required to get things going.

To assume that piano lessons are relevant, you would have to say that you learn most of your playing, and practice your lessons from reading the book, until the final weeks before your concert, when you're finally allowed to use an actual piano.

Not going to happen.
post #68 of 135
If there is anything to whinge about it's tardiness of getting the thing out. It is perfectly understandable that Apple would want to limit developers of the first public release, so as to minimize setting details in stone that may turn out with a wide range of developers to be suboptimal.

What would you prefer:
  1. they let the whole world develop as fast as possible, and get stuck with an API with ugly features that can't go away because too many people have used them, or
  2. that a smaller-scale trial with fewer beta test developers gets the wrinkles out before everyone gets there hands on the SDK?
If it was my money, I wouldn't be too unhappy holding off for a while on developing and letting the early adopters suffer the pain of having the API change underneath them.

Philip Machanick creator of Opinionations and Green Grahamstown
Department of Computer Science, Rhodes University, South Africa

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Philip Machanick creator of Opinionations and Green Grahamstown
Department of Computer Science, Rhodes University, South Africa

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post #69 of 135
Right now I am sooooo f*kng pissed my super awesome ultra iPhone killer app has been rejected, and that Steve J didn't personally send me an autographed picture of himself using my awesome app:

post #70 of 135
Looks like my application for iFund funding of about 500,000 USD has been rejected. DAMN YOU APPLE, DAMN YOU TO HECK !!!! My global dominational plans for everyone to learn lolspeak has been foiled!!!11!!
post #71 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

But you can write programs, and test them, without having a physical phone to test them on, until the final revision

I think what you, and other non-developers are missing is the fact that many programs will not run on the Simulator.

For a simplistic (but telling) example:

Apple furnishes 27 SDK Sample Programs-- of these:

30% will not run on the Simulator
22% will not compile and deploy to the Simulator
3% Require missing SDK Libraries

This means that a developer who writes an app that uses anything that is not supported on the Simulator has no place to go.

Changing the piano analog a bit, Apple is telling these Developers:

"You can play the piano, but you can't use the black keys".

or

"You can write music, but you can't use sharps or flats".

My issue is more with the Simulator than with lack of real-device support.

The Simulator is good, no very good, for the things that it does. But, there are missing pieces. Apple should implement the missing pieces so that it can deploy and run any program written for the platform. Then, Apple should add Tools to simulate external events-- such things as: Accelerometer movement; Location change; Dropping/Changing Cell or WiFi access points; receiving a Phone Call.

There are many advantages to using a Simulator over a real device. I, for one, would be perfectly content to use a full-featured Simulator until the real-device support arrives. And I hope that Apple will continue to support and expand the Simulator as new devices are announced.
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post #72 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I think what you, and other non-developers are missing is the fact that many programs will not run on the Simulator.

For a simplistic (but telling) example:

Apple furnishes 27 SDK Sample Programs-- of these:

30% will not run on the Simulator
22% will not compile and deploy to the Simulator
3% Require missing SDK Libraries

This means that a developer who writes an app that uses anything that is not supported on the Simulator has no place to go.

Changing the piano analog a bit, Apple is telling these Developers:

"You can play the piano, but you can't use the black keys".

or

"You can write music, but you can't use sharps or flats".

My issue is more with the Simulator than with lack of real-device support.

The Simulator is good, no very good, for the things that it does. But, there are missing pieces. Apple should implement the missing pieces so that it can deploy and run any program written for the platform. Then, Apple should add Tools to simulate external events-- such things as: Accelerometer movement; Location change; Dropping/Changing Cell or WiFi access points; receiving a Phone Call.

There are many advantages to using a Simulator over a real device. I, for one, would be perfectly content to use a full-featured Simulator until the real-device support arrives. And I hope that Apple will continue to support and expand the Simulator as new devices are announced.

Which part of 'Beta' do you not understand?
post #73 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Right now I am sooooo f*kng pissed my super awesome ultra iPhone killer app has been rejected, and that Steve J didn't personally send me an autographed picture of himself using my awesome app:
<image>

I just talked to the iFund people. You go rejected because you didn't know how to spell World.
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #74 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Right now I am sooooo f*kng pissed my super awesome ultra iPhone killer app has been rejected, and that Steve J didn't personally send me an autographed picture of himself using my awesome app:


Maybe you need to rethink your color scheme here?? I'm sure they have their reasons....
post #75 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by parky View Post

Which part of 'Beta' do you not understand?

In the dictionary, it comes before "Civil"?
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"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -
"He who laughs, lasts!" - Mary Pettibone Poole -
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post #76 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by hezekiahb View Post

I can't, show me a company out there offering a better solution for mobile app developers to get in the money making game.

http://developer.symbian.com/

70+% of the smartphone market. You'd be stupid not to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hezekiahb View Post

If you do find one then stop whining about Apple's decisions & go make money with them.

Apple can do whatever they so choose & it isn't their problem you have no idea what it is like to run such a large & successful company. Take the whining somewhere else; maybe to Microsoft, I'm sure they'll be willing to stroke your ego.

So you're saying I need to know how to run a huge and successful company now before I can develop for the iPhone. The price of entry just keeps going up...
post #77 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Apple's stock price, at say, $180 - $200, is heavily tied up with iPhone's success, for better or worse; that success is premised on a much larger rollout than has been presently achieved; and that, in turn, will require inroads into the corporate market.

Oh god. Will you PLEASE stop linking stock price to Apple's actions? Honestly, if all care about is stock performance, go invest in China or something. There is virtually no correlation between Apple's day-to-day actions and its stock price. The only reason it fell is because the economy in general is tanking due to mortgage foreclosures and inflation from oil prices. The only reason it did well in the first place was that Joe Dipwad heard something about iPods doing well and went on eTrade to get a piece of that; he doesn't know anything or care about developer relationships.
post #78 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave K. View Post

Worry more about the fact that Jobs is a liar. That will get Apple into more trouble than being perceived rude.

He is a liar? What was the lie? He came out and said it would be a gradual ramp-up.

If I were to find any fault in all of this, I would say that Jobs went off his usual game plan which is to keep people in the dark until the last moment, because they always do this. They overreact, misinterpret, throw rumors around, and generally act like babies. So next time Apple starts a beta program for an SDK, they shouldn't even bother making it generally known until it's out of beta.
post #79 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by ravelgrane View Post

He is a liar? What was the lie? He came out and said it would be a gradual ramp-up.

If I were to find any fault in all of this, I would say that Jobs went off his usual game plan which is to keep people in the dark until the last moment, because they always do this. They overreact, misinterpret, throw rumors around, and generally act like babies. So next time Apple starts a beta program for an SDK, they shouldn't even bother making it generally known until it's out of beta.

Just answering the part about lies .....
not involved with the rest of the conversation.

Jobs has been documented several times to lie. I agree this time he did not but there are several lies now in his book. This creates a lot of controversy in this and other sites.

You new to the Mac?
post #80 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Don't start with this stupidity again.

Please spare me....

When the best way for Apple users to know what future products Apple is working on is to listen to what Apple's CEO officially state what they aren't working on, there lies a potential problem with trust...
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