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Xcode for Windows

post #1 of 19
3/15/08 at 9:36am
Thread Starter 
I have read posts/rumors about Apple creating a way for Mac applications to run natively on Windows (YellowBox?) and Windows applications to run natively on Macs (RedBox?), but I do not think that will happen; however, I do think Apple will provide a version of Xcode that runs on Windows. I am not talking about a full-blown version that can be used to create applications for the Mac but one that is specifically for creating iPhone and iPod touch applications. This makes a lot of sense because if Apple wants to get the iPhone into the corporate world they need to get an IDE into the hands of corporate (i.e. Windows) developers without requiring them to pony up for a Mac.
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post #2 of 19
3/15/08 at 10:32am
The cost of computers is so low these days it can't really be a barrier for any legitimate business if they wish to purchase one to develop iPhone apps.

I guess they could do as you say but I would think that it would be a burden to support the code on WIndows.
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post #3 of 19
3/15/08 at 5:21pm
I am going to second this. The big cost of having someone on staff develop an iPhone app for a company with Windows developers is not going to be buying a Mac for them to use (even a fully decked out MacPro is not going to make a dent), it is going to be all of the developer's time learning Objective-C and the necessary Cocoa frameworks. In comparison to the cost of paying the developer for even three or four of weeks of that (a good lower estimate), the cost of the hardware suddenly does not look so expensive.

And there is a huge stack of systems that would have to be ported over to Windows for this to work, and then Apple would have to push developer time into figuring out all the myriad ways things could break on the various WIndows platforms. And then there is the idea that doing that is detrimental to their Mac business, which still is the biggest part of Apple's business.
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post #4 of 19
3/20/09 at 10:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karl Kuehn View Post

I am going to second this. The big cost of having someone on staff develop an iPhone app for a company with Windows developers is not going to be buying a Mac for them to use (even a fully decked out MacPro is not going to make a dent), it is going to be all of the developer's time learning Objective-C and the necessary Cocoa frameworks. In comparison to the cost of paying the developer for even three or four of weeks of that (a good lower estimate), the cost of the hardware suddenly does not look so expensive.

And there is a huge stack of systems that would have to be ported over to Windows for this to work, and then Apple would have to push developer time into figuring out all the myriad ways things could break on the various WIndows platforms. And then there is the idea that doing that is detrimental to their Mac business, which still is the biggest part of Apple's business.

We wanted to develop native applications for iPhone and for that I along with 2 developers from our company started gathering knowledge. After several retries I was able to download 1.7 GB SDK. Our excitement soon turned into shock when we came to know that the SDK works on Mac only and the cost of Mac for us is 5 times than a Windows PC. We are a small company that survives on freelance projects and the price you get there is real throw away. For now we have postponed our plans for indefinite number of days with a hope of finding some work around solution and a dream of programming for iPhone.
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post #5 of 19
3/20/09 at 10:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by gharshg View Post

...and the cost of Mac for us is 5 times than a Windows PC. ...

Where are you getting $150 PCS?

Have you looked at a Mac Mini?
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post #6 of 19
3/20/09 at 10:57am
To amplify backtomac's point. You don't need to get a MacPro (a workstation class machine) to develop iPhone applications.

But to get you around these "sudden surprises" here is a short list of what you should be aware of:
  • You are going to need an iPhone to do actual testing on. The developer tools do have a simulator that you can run the program on, but it is not 100% the same as having it run on an actual iPhone.
  • You need to learn Objective-C. Objective-C is not like C++ at all, but is a strict super-set of C. You can also include C++ methods, but all of the frameworks on the iPhone are in Objective-C so you will have to work with it in order to have a GUI, work with the system, etc.
  • You will have to learn a whole new way of working with the GUI and other things called Cocoa. It is very different from the Windows programing model. There is no way of avoiding this.

As I indicated before: the later two items are likely to take weeks (more than 2) of developer time just to get up-to-speed. At the end of that time you will not have done anything that will wind up in your final application, but will then have to start the new application. Given that cost of those , the cost of even a MacPro looks pretty small.

There is no work-around to having both a Macintosh, and an actual iPhone.
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post #7 of 19
3/20/09 at 11:21am
There may be a "work around". I can't confirm this but I've heard that the developer version of OS X allows you to install it in a VM. When I say "allows" I really mean "it can be done"

Or buy a Hackintosh
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post #8 of 19
3/20/09 at 11:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by troberts View Post

I have read posts/rumors about Apple creating a way for Mac applications to run natively on Windows (YellowBox?) and Windows applications to run natively on Macs (RedBox?), but I do not think that will happen; however, I do think Apple will provide a version of Xcode that runs on Windows. I am not talking about a full-blown version that can be used to create applications for the Mac but one that is specifically for creating iPhone and iPod touch applications. This makes a lot of sense because if Apple wants to get the iPhone into the corporate world they need to get an IDE into the hands of corporate (i.e. Windows) developers without requiring them to pony up for a Mac.

800,000 SDK downloads later and you're worried about Enterprise development penetration for the iPhone?

Don't worry. Xcode doesn't need to be ported to Windows for this to happen. You wanting a nice IDE, for free, to supplant Visual Studio or something else won't happen.
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post #9 of 19
3/20/09 at 11:39am
Ok let's put this in perspective.


Trism's developer makes $250k

Pangea Software leaves Mac for iPhone development after clearning 1.5 million in profit

Don't piss on my leg and try to tell me it's raining. iPhone development is making people RICH. So your choices are simple.

Save 5x on your crappy PC and stay broke.

Get in the game with iPhone development no matter what the costs are and see if you got what it takes.
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He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
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post #10 of 19
3/20/09 at 12:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Ok let's put this in perspective.


Trism's developer makes $250k

Pangea Software leaves Mac for iPhone development after clearning 1.5 million in profit

Don't piss on my leg and try to tell me it's raining. iPhone development is making people RICH. So your choices are simple.

Save 5x on your crappy PC and stay broke.

Get in the game with iPhone development no matter what the costs are and see if you got what it takes.

Abandoning the Mac platform and writing for the iPhone is rather a misnomer. They are the same development platforms with customizations for the iPhone only form factor and hardware limitations.

He'll return to the Mac platform when the volume of sales pushes the platform beyond 10%.
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post #11 of 19
3/20/09 at 12:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

Abandoning the Mac platform and writing for the iPhone is rather a misnomer. They are the same development platforms with customizations for the iPhone only form factor and hardware limitations.

He'll return to the Mac platform when the volume of sales pushes the platform beyond 10%.

Misnomer indeed. In fact looking at the development of the iPhone it's clear that there are some features (like the new QTX stack and Cocoa Touch) that will be battled tested on the iPhone and then brought to the desktop.
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post #12 of 19
3/20/09 at 3:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbwi View Post

There may be a "work around". I can't confirm this but I've heard that the developer version of OS X allows you to install it in a VM. When I say "allows" I really mean "it can be done"

You are thinking about MacOS X Server, whose licensing does allow separately purchased copies of MacOS X Server to run in a VM (from a third-party) on top of it while running on Apple-branded hardware. But that does not get around needing Apple-branded hardware, and MacOS X Server is a bit expensive to be purchasing multiple copies for this sort of thing.
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post #13 of 19
3/23/09 at 3:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by gharshg View Post

We wanted to develop native applications for iPhone and for that I along with 2 developers from our company started gathering knowledge. After several retries I was able to download 1.7 GB SDK. Our excitement soon turned into shock when we came to know that the SDK works on Mac only and the cost of Mac for us is 5 times than a Windows PC. We are a small company that survives on freelance projects and the price you get there is real throw away. For now we have postponed our plans for indefinite number of days with a hope of finding some work around solution and a dream of programming for iPhone.

What kind of amateur operation are you running where "2 developers from our company started gathering knowledge" didn't realize early on and only after downloading the SDK that it only runs on Mac OS X?
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The politics of charisma is so Third World. Americans were never going to buy into it for long. - Foudad Ajami
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post #14 of 19
3/23/09 at 6:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by gharshg View Post

We wanted to develop native applications for iPhone and for that I along with 2 developers from our company started gathering knowledge. After several retries I was able to download 1.7 GB SDK. Our excitement soon turned into shock when we came to know that the SDK works on Mac only and the cost of Mac for us is 5 times than a Windows PC. We are a small company that survives on freelance projects and the price you get there is real throw away. For now we have postponed our plans for indefinite number of days with a hope of finding some work around solution and a dream of programming for iPhone.

Wow...that must have been some heavy "knowledge gathering" sessions. So heavy, in fact, that you never bothered to read that the SDK was OS X-only. No pity for the stupid.

It's ok though, we never wanted you to develop a fart app.
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post #15 of 19
3/23/09 at 7:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kim kap sol View Post


It's ok though, we never wanted you to develop a fart app.


I'm going to have throw a flag here for unnecessary roughness.
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post #16 of 19
3/23/09 at 9:29am
  • Kickaha
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Unfortunately, flag blown off field of play due to extreme windage. *rimshot*
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My brain is hung like a HORSE!
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post #17 of 19
3/26/09 at 12:19am
I imagine folks should expect a free Windows version of Xcode about the same time free Visual Studio comes to the Mac.

I wonder why we don't hear about Mac developers clamoring for Visual Studio on the Mac so they can develop for windows mobile?
"Slow vehicle speeds with frequent stops would signal traffic congestion, for instance."

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"Slow vehicle speeds with frequent stops would signal traffic congestion, for instance."

uh... it could also signal that my Mom is at the wheel...
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post #18 of 19
7/1/09 at 4:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Beardsley View Post

I imagine folks should expect a free Windows version of Xcode about the same time free Visual Studio comes to the Mac.

I wonder why we don't hear about Mac developers clamoring for Visual Studio on the Mac so they can develop for windows mobile?

you know why? because windows can run on a mac with boot camp. windows computers cant run os x unless you turn it into a hackintosh (which is illegal) so macs can run visual studio through boot camp. but windows computers cant run xcode with doing some illegal stuff first.
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post #19 of 19
10/21/09 at 3:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

The cost of computers is so low these days it can't really be a barrier for any legitimate business if they wish to purchase one to develop iPhone apps.

I guess they could do as you say but I would think that it would be a burden to support the code on WIndows.

The barrier is not the cost of the hardware. the problem lies with most Microsoft shops view an apple in their environment as a leper (trust me I am a home Mac user working in a microsoft shop in an IT role) my boss looks at macs like they were put here to destroy all things holy.... if only he knew.

In any event, there is one mac in our building and it is in a locked room by itself STRICTLY forbiden to connect to the network (lest it summon satan or something). I only wish I were kidding. The lone mac is for our promotions group, and they had to PROVE that the mac was able to do things that the PC could not before they could get it.

Anyway, all hail mac the evil undoer of man!
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