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post #41 of 115
3/20/08 at 1:08pm
I love my iPhone, I love my iPod! I have adapted to and accept iTunes as my media player because of my two gadgets. But I will be damned if I will be forced to use Safari Browser on my Windows PC!!! This is just as bad as windows forcing me to use IE on various applications. I have been and will always use Firefox untill the day it shuts down.

I gurantee promise that if iTunes is required to have Safari to work then it will ALLLLLL be removed off of my machince. I will always use my PC and nothing will make me change. Every OS has its ups and downs...even a Mac. I will continue to use my Apple Gadgets but if Apple forces me to change then I and soooo many others will be GONE! Remember Apple, there are still more PC users out there that own media players then there are Mac users and if you make a mistake in forcing dedicated PC users to use your browser, then they will be gone.

What a really sad day...I really was starting to believe that Apple was "different"\
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post #42 of 115
3/20/08 at 1:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

Saw this yesterday. While I can't blame them for trying to leverage their trojan horse, I don't like this kind of sneaky install at all. It does tell you what it's going to do, but for most users, a little more explanation is necessary for them to know what is happening.

I am torn on this. MS, AOL/AIM, and many other developers have tried to push out other apps or plugins with their installers. But does it make it right? I'd be pretty annoyed if this was the norm on OS X, but since it's not I really don't care.


Quote:
Originally Posted by nacnud View Post

Just trying it out, seems nice but there are two things keeping me on firefox.

- I like having more screen space so I have moved the menu bar and tool bar onto one line
- I hate ads a windows safari adblock would be good

I do like that I can put everything on one line, including my bookmarks. I prefer blanking out the name and using just the icon for quick access to a site. This allows me to have only one line for my address bar, Google search, buttons and 15 bookmark icons.

Firefox for Wndows uses Favicons in the Bookmark bar. Firefox on OS X doesn't allow for icons, presumably to mimic Safari. Unfortunately, using Foxmarks to save these bookmarks results in a bunch of "invisible" bookmarks in Firefox on OS X when synced. I see no way around this and it makes using the cross-platform plugins pointless for me.
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #43 of 115
3/20/08 at 1:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lantzn View Post

OH the DRAMA! A virus, hahahaha.

Whatever.

If MS did something like this, all of you Jobs knob-gobblers would going apeshit.

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post #44 of 115
3/20/08 at 1:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SFC @rcher View Post

I love my iPhone, I love my iPod! I have adapted to and accept iTunes as my media player because of my two gadgets. But I will be damned if I will be forced to use Safari Browser on my Windows PC!!! This is just as bad as windows forcing me to use IE on various applications. I have been and will always use Firefox untill the day it shuts down.

I gurantee promise that if iTunes is required to have Safari to work then it will ALLLLLL be removed off of my machince. I will always use my PC and nothing will make me change. Every OS has its ups and downs...even a Mac. I will continue to use my Apple Gadgets but if Apple forces me to change then I and soooo many others will be GONE! Remember Apple, there are still more PC users out there that own media players then there are Mac users and if you make a mistake in forcing dedicated PC users to use your browser, then they will be gone.

What a really sad day...I really was starting to believe that Apple was "different"\

Don't bang the door on the way out ...

Just kidding ... no one is forcing anything ... it is an option for those willing to try as you have with other Apple products. Once tried, most love them.
Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
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Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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post #45 of 115
3/20/08 at 1:17pm
...and that is why I stated "if they make it an iTunes requirement to have Safari"

Again, I have nothing against Apple and love "SOME" of their products, but I also love my PC and I don't care what anyone says about it on a Apple website, because they are saying much worse things about apple on microsoft forums...its a never ending battle. I love both worlds and have adapted to such, but if Apple starts forcing me to use something to use something else, then I am gone and I gurantee you, the door won't hit me, cause it will be off the hinges laying on the floor in my dust
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post #46 of 115
3/20/08 at 1:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SFC @rcher View Post

...and that is why I stated "if they make it an iTunes requirement to have Safari"

Again, I have nothing against Apple and love "SOME" of their products, but I also love my PC and I don't care what anyone says about it on a Apple website, because they are saying much worse things about apple on microsoft forums...its a never ending battle. I love both worlds and have adapted to such, but if Apple starts forcing me to use something to use something else, then I am gone and I gurantee you, the door won't hit me, cause it will be off the hinges laying on the floor in my dust

Well I admire your convictions lol and I am no bigot, I use Vista on my 8 Core Mac Pro and XP Pro too all with Mac OS X at the same time with full drag and drop and copy paste, even all have their own IP ... cake and eat it and Fed Ex just delivered my NVideo GeForce 8800 woot!
Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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post #47 of 115
3/20/08 at 1:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SFC @rcher View Post

...and that is why I stated "if they make it an iTunes requirement to have Safari"

There is nothing to indicate that will ever happen. While iTunes uses WebKit for the iTS, there is no need for Safari. Quicktime is another matter and components are definitely required for iTunes to function.

I do fault Apple for making me manually remove the QT shortcut from the Desktop, Start » Programs, the Task Bar and removing the auto-run syntax from the Registry each and every time there is an update to QT. This is much more viral than adding an option to DL their browser.
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post #48 of 115
3/20/08 at 1:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

There is nothing to indicate that will ever happen. While iTunes uses WebKit for the iTS, there is no need for Safari. Quicktime is another matter and components are definitely required for iTunes to function.

I do fault Apple for making me manually remove the QT shortcut from the Desktop, Start » Programs, the Task Bar and removing the auto-run syntax from the Registry each and every time there is an update to QT. This is much more viral than adding an option to DL their browser.

You might give CCleaner a try...it automatically removes the "auto-run syntax" from my computer. I still have QT on my PC but with the auto run removed my Apple update software will only work manually for all updates this allows me to be in charge of what happens on my machine. The Safari option will be removed also so that it is not a concern for me right now.
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post #49 of 115
3/20/08 at 1:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SFC @rcher View Post

You might give CCleaner a try...it automatically removes the "auto-run syntax" from my computer.

Thanks, but it's just some of the anal-retentive things I do to clean up friends and family's PCs. I hate the clutter of Windows. i don't even like the excessive, unused progreams listed in the Start Menu.

PS: As the "resident computer guy" for my friends and family (like many of you on this board) I have stipulated that will assist with no more computer issues if you next machine is not a Mac. Perhaps a little harsh, but I have better things to do with my time than clean out viruses and restore a clunky OS to a usable speed.
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post #50 of 115
3/20/08 at 1:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Thanks, but it's just some of the anal-retentive things I do to clean up friends and family's PCs. I hate the clutter of Windows. i don't even like the excessive, unused progreams listed in the Start Menu.

PS: As the "resident computer guy" for my friends and family (like many of you on this board) I have stipulated that will assist with no more computer issues if you next machine is not a Mac. Perhaps a little harsh, but I have better things to do with my time than clean out viruses and restore a clunky OS to a usable speed.

Ha ha ... funny you say that, after the last few PCs I had to clean up and the 237 updates and restarts later, I issued the same decree NO MORE PCs! ... and it is amazing how many said they were more than likely switching very soon ...
Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
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Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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post #51 of 115
3/20/08 at 2:13pm
It's an optional download chill guys. Mac > PC by the way

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post #52 of 115
3/20/08 at 2:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

It's an optional download chill guys. Mac > PC by the way


What does Mac > PC mean? You don't mean you are 'the guy' that switched the other way are you?
Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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post #53 of 115
3/20/08 at 2:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

What does Mac > PC mean? You don't mean you are 'the guy' that switched the other way are you?

I think he is saying that Mac is greater (read: better) than PC (read: Windows).
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post #54 of 115
3/20/08 at 2:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I think he is saying that Mac is greater (read: better) than PC (read: Windows).

Oh ...ok thought we had a rare bird here for a minute
Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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post #55 of 115
3/20/08 at 2:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Oh ...ok thought we had a rare bird here for a minute

You don't know what ">" means?

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post #56 of 115
3/20/08 at 2:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

You don't know what ">" means?

Internet posters often use the greater than symbol as an arrow to denote moving from one thing to another.

Start > Programs > Accessories > Paint
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post #57 of 115
3/20/08 at 2:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

You don't know what ">" means?

I read it as a simple sign as in towards (as in the pub is this way) not a math symbol (given your handle) ... but thanks for the link I now know ... from the link page

"Idiotic online slang to represents something is greater than something.."

Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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post #58 of 115
3/20/08 at 2:32pm
this > that

this is greater than that

most I've seen wanting arrows do like...

this -> that
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post #59 of 115
3/20/08 at 2:38pm
God, that Windows window is fugly. So, 1995. Poor bastards.
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2011 13" 2.3 MBP, 2006 15" 2.16 MBP, iPhone 4, iPod Shuffle, AEBS, AppleTV2 with XBMC.
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post #60 of 115
3/20/08 at 3:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassoon View Post

Just offered to load this afternoon - in France. Said "Nice trick !" and decided to download just to check on my PC for my blog and multi-platform tests for my blog. Smooth install, and all my URLs in FIREFOX were present and fully functional. Meanwhile I'll stay with FF on my MAC and PC.http://forums.appleinsider.com/image...ies/1smile.gif

I'm in Paris at the moment. Where is the Apple store? I thought for sure this time you guys would have one.

Not sure why you would run FF on a Mac. My wife used FF until Safari 3 came out. She could care less about anything on a computer so for her to swap to Safari, means something must be right.
Hard-Core.
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post #61 of 115
3/20/08 at 3:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by aplnub View Post

I'm in Paris at the moment. Where is the Apple store? I thought for sure this time you guys would have one.

Suprisingly, the offical Apple Store in Paris that was rumoured to be built in 2007 never happened.
http://www.apple.com/retail/storelist/ This seems to be an authorized Apple reseller.
http://maps.google.com/maps?client=s...um=2&ct=result
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post #62 of 115
3/20/08 at 3:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Suprisingly, the offical Apple Store in Paris that was rumoured to be built in 2007 never happened.
http://www.apple.com/retail/storelist/ This seems to be an authorized Apple reseller.
http://maps.google.com/maps?client=s...um=2&ct=result

Thanks for that link. I would be more inclined to visit if it were an official Apple store just to say I have been. I was fairly disappointed when I learned, yep, still no store. WTH are is Apple thinking?

Maybe next time...
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post #63 of 115
3/20/08 at 3:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by aplnub View Post

Thanks for that link. I would be more inclined to visit if it were an official Apple store just to say I have been. I was fairly disappointed when I learned, yep, still no store. WTH are is Apple thinking?

Maybe next time...

Who knows. iDevices can be sold through sold retailers much easier than Macs can so until Macs start becoming more mainstream in the EU we probably won't see an explosion of Apple Stores. (speculation)
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post #64 of 115
3/20/08 at 3:33pm
I found it worse, when Apple started pushing QuickTime, along with iTunes, than pushing Safari now.

Safari 3.1 is actually good on both platforms (for once - before 3.1, I thought Safari was trash, on both platforms), and it's almost as good as FF3. if Safari had extensions though..

I gave up on IE eons ago.

QuickTime is complete garbage; Mac and PC. It's Real Player for the 21st Century. It doesn't even do MP4 well.
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post #65 of 115
3/20/08 at 3:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by guinness View Post

QuickTime is complete garbage; Mac and PC. It's Real Player for the 21st Century. It doesn't even do MP4 well.

Are you being facetious?
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post #66 of 115
3/20/08 at 4:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Are you being facetious?

Absolutely not.

VLC does MP4 better, with fewer resources (especially on Windows, what takes Apple a dual-core CPU, VLC could do with one), and QT doesn't offer anything in terms of features, outside of buying the "Pro" version, which nearly every other video player does for free. All QT can do OOB, is basically full-screen (now). Whoopty doo.

It's just not a good video player IMO - clunky and slow. Like my on my PCs, QT is on my Mac, but it sits there, and it's only existence is due to iTunes requiring the damned thing.

On Windows, I use WMP for video, iTunes for audio, and on my Mac, VLC and iTunes.
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post #67 of 115
3/20/08 at 6:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by guinness View Post

On Windows, I use WMP for video, iTunes for audio, and on my Mac, VLC and iTunes.

Blimey. I would never in a gazillion years use WMP for anything other than fodder for the recycle bin (which of course you can't do because it's integrated just like IE). Forgetting for a moment that its so-called interface is ugly, clunky, and weak, its support for embedded IE makes it just as much a target for all the ActiveX crap that invades one's computer through that horrible mess of a browser.

I don't mind QT on the Mac at all, although I do use VLC more frequently. I agree that it's a dog on the PC, but then I don't generally have to use one of those either.

Back on-topic, I am a little disappointed to see Apple pushing Safari this way. If I were the average PC user, I'd probably already not have a whole lot of love for Apple, and this sort of thing would almost certainly piss me off. Sure you can ignore it or otherwise choose not to install it, but I think it will leave a proverbial bad taste in the mouths of a lot of people.
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post #68 of 115
3/20/08 at 6:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

The only reason I use IE on parallels is to access my bank site, I can access it using safari and firefox but I cannot do anything other than view statements. Firefox is fine but I hate how slow it is to start and load pages. I believe most Windows users don't like Safari because they are not used to the browser's theme, they are used to XP or Vista theme. I have to agree with them because when I ran Safari under windows it does not fit, just like running an XP program under Leopard using Parallels Coherence, it looks awful. The average person care more about the look, feel, and compatibility. I don't know why many websites are only designed to be best viewed on IE!

Have you tried the IE Tab extension for FireFox for Windows?

As I understand it, without starting an IE session, it uses the machinery of IE (it claims to "embed IE" in the tab) to display selected tabs in FF that "think" they're in IE, including the ultimate non-FF site, Windows Update. And has some other nice features.

I don't know, but I expect, that leaves those tabs open to all IE security concerns, but it's a way to never have to figure out "what the hell is up with that ribbon bar thingie?" And makes some otherwise nearly unrenderable sites that depend on IE protocols display properly

http://ietab.mozdev.org/

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post #69 of 115
3/20/08 at 7:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

Saw this yesterday. While I can't blame them for trying to leverage their trojan horse, I don't like this kind of sneaky install at all. It does tell you what it's going to do, but for most users, a little more explanation is necessary for them to know what is happening.

Trojan Horse? So you're implying that Apple takes over your computer by offering you completely optional, free software? And it doesn't tell you what it does? What part of the message don't you understand? Seems pretty clear to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by djdj View Post

There is no way that Safari is ever going to become popular on Windows. It's okay on the Mac, but the user interface feels nothing like any other Windows app and it just feels totally out of place on Windows.

This tactic of installing it via Software Update is more aggressive and sneakier than anything we've ever seen by Microsoft. It's essentially a virus when distributed this way. Boo Apple!

Windows? Consistent? Did they ever figure out how to make apps consistent on Windows? Heck, last time I checked, they still can't even figure out whether to use MDI or SDI.

And more aggressive and sneakier than Microsoft? You have a future in comedy. How about writing Windows to make it look like DR-DOS wouldn't work? Or sending messages saying that QT had bugs? Or tying IE into the OS so you HAD to have it installed? Or per-CPU licenses. Or a zillion other things.

I guess with as bad as Windows is, you could see Apple's offering of free software as a threat - after all, who would want Microsoft software after they've used good software, but 'aggressive and sneakier' is absurd.
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post #70 of 115
3/20/08 at 8:07pm
Until FireFox 3 comes out of beta I know I am definitely sticking with Safari 3.1 for my Mac, it really is WAY faster which surprised me as I thought it was just my internet. It still smokes FireFox 3 in Javascript by like 2 fold, but that is a lot better then FF2 that ram leaking crap hole (and I used to use FF2 for like 6months)

Not sure how it does on the PC side of things though.
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post #71 of 115
3/20/08 at 8:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by reallynotnick View Post

Until FireFox 3 comes out of beta I know I am definitely sticking with Safari 3.1 for my Mac, it really is WAY faster which surprised me as I thought it was just my internet. It still smokes FireFox 3 in Javascript by like 2 fold, but that is a lot better then FF2 that ram leaking crap hole (and I used to use FF2 for like 6months)

Not sure how it does on the PC side of things though.

last year WebKit had some major breakthroughs with JS.

•

Test it yourself with SunSpider
WebKit r31201 ---- 3,694.0 ms
Safari 3.1 ------- 4,164.8 ms
Firefox 3.04b ---- 4,579.8 ms
Firefox 2.0.0.9 - 15,123.6 ms
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post #72 of 115
3/20/08 at 10:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

last year WebKit had some major breakthroughs with JS.
Test it yourself with SunSpider
WebKit r31201 ---- 3,694.0 ms
Safari 3.1 ------- 4,164.8 ms
Firefox 3.04b ---- 4,579.8 ms
Firefox 2.0.0.9 - 15,123.6 ms

I just ran the test on the latest 2.4GHz iMac and got the following result for Safari 3.1: 3237.6ms +/- 0.3%

That is hell fast. It would be interesting to see some Windows results.
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post #73 of 115
3/20/08 at 10:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Grain of Salt View Post

I just ran the test on the latest 2.4GHz iMac and got the following result for Safari 3.1: 3237.6ms +/- 0.3%

That is hell fast. It would be interesting to see some Windows results.

If that is your Safari 3.1 result I wonder what your WebKit result will be.
http://nightly.webkit.org/
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post #74 of 115
3/21/08 at 1:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

There is nothing to indicate that will ever happen. While iTunes uses WebKit for the iTS, there is no need for Safari. Quicktime is another matter and components are definitely required for iTunes to function.

I do fault Apple for making me manually remove the QT shortcut from the Desktop, Start » Programs, the Task Bar and removing the auto-run syntax from the Registry each and every time there is an update to QT. This is much more viral than adding an option to DL their browser.

Actually, iTunes does not use WebKit to display the store, or anything else for that matter. As far as I can tell, this hasn't changed recently.
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post #75 of 115
3/21/08 at 6:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mt2 View Post

Actually, iTunes does not use WebKit to display the store, or anything else for that matter. As far as I can tell, this hasn't changed recently.

Thanks. I was very misinformed.
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post #76 of 115
3/21/08 at 7:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr O View Post

The latest version of Safari does not let me write capitals in my Gmail without always jumping to the subject box.

It is pretty annoying as I have to write my messages in Pages and copy paste them to Gmail.

I haven't lost my mind just yet

Silly me, I might just write them in Firefox
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post #77 of 115
3/21/08 at 7:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilco View Post

Whatever.

If MS did something like this, all of you Jobs knob-gobblers would going apeshit.


dear Wilco,

I am with you on this one!
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post #78 of 115
3/21/08 at 7:53am
If this is OK with some people, then every software maker out there should include invitations to download other products every time you update their software.
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post #79 of 115
3/21/08 at 7:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilco View Post

Whatever.

If MS did something like this, all of you Jobs knob-gobblers would going apeshit.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mr O View Post

dear Wilco,

I am with you on this one!

They would be, but remember that Mac users are not used to this sort of underhanded marketing. This is common in Windows by MS and many common program developers. While this is sneaky, it's not outside what WIndows users are used to. But should be hold Apple to a different standard on Windows? Can you even get an IM client without having some browser toolbar trying to install itself?
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post #80 of 115
3/21/08 at 10:52am
I hardly see how Apple is forcefully pushing Windows users to use Safari, or how it is doing, what some people here are suggesting, something secretive. Apple is merely asking Windows users who already have Apple software installed if they want to try out the new Safari. It isn't installing it without the user's permission.
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