or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Other Discussion › AppleOutsider › PoliticalOutsider › Wright in Context - What The Media Didn't Show
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Wright in Context - What The Media Didn't Show

post #1 of 191
Thread Starter 
When reading the post below remember the media maxim, "Libel on page 1A and retract on page 99Z"

Trinity United church has uploaded to YouTube videos of the "offending sermons", putting the quick cuts from FOX and others in context.

If you're interested in seeing this...

----
Clip 1 - This is the sermon that they cut "God DAMN America!" from.

What the context provides:
The anger is no less, but he spends 6 minutes making the case, outlining the "sins" of American government and working to that shouting crescendo.
----
----
Clip 2 - This is the sermon that they cut "America's chickens are coming home to roost." from.

What the context provides:
When Wright says "America's chickens are coming home to roost" he is paraphrasing US Ambassador Edward Peck. Peck is white.

(Listen to this entire sermon here.)
----

You can watch more of these on Trinity's YouTube site.
proud resident of a failed state
Reply
proud resident of a failed state
Reply
post #2 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by groverat View Post

When reading the post below remember the media maxim, "Libel on page 1A and retract on page 99Z"

Trinity United church has uploaded to YouTube videos of the "offending sermons", putting the quick cuts from FOX and others in context.

If you're interested in seeing this...

----
Clip 1 - This is the sermon that they cut "God DAMN America!" from.

What the context provides:
The anger is no less, but he spends 6 minutes making the case, outlining the "sins" of American government and working to that shouting crescendo.
----
----
Clip 2 - This is the sermon that they cut "America's chickens are coming home to roost." from.

What the context provides:
When Wright says "America's chickens are coming home to roost" he is paraphrasing US Ambassador Edward Peck. Peck is white.

(Listen to this entire sermon here.)
----

You can watch more of these on Trinity's YouTube site.

I think it's this clip;

Clip 2

Context is always important, Fix/Faux News/Noise? Nothing but a Republican propaganda machine.
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
Reply
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
Reply
post #3 of 191
So we have proper "context" and longer "rationalizations" for why he believes America engineered the HIV virus to create racial genocide and also have the terrorists attack us.

Thanks Grove.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply
post #4 of 191
i think nick has lost the plot...
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
Reply
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
Reply
post #5 of 191
Thread Starter 
I think you might try discussing topics of conversation in a normal tone and not rely on that 15-year-old's sarcasm you rely so heavily on. It degrades every single thread you participate in and turns it into a childish slapfight. It is nearly impossible to have a rational, adult conversation on this forum with the incessant baiting.

It is pathetic.

If you have a point to make, then make it. You are, of course, free to talk like a simpering 8th grade know-it-all, but it's a habit that is destructive to the threads you destroy with it.
proud resident of a failed state
Reply
proud resident of a failed state
Reply
post #6 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by groverat View Post

When reading the post below remember the media maxim, "Libel on page 1A and retract on page 99Z"

Trinity United church has uploaded to YouTube videos of the "offending sermons", putting the quick cuts from FOX and others in context.

If you're interested in seeing this...

----
Clip 1 - This is the sermon that they cut "God DAMN America!" from.

What the context provides:
The anger is no less, but he spends 6 minutes making the case, outlining the "sins" of American government and working to that shouting crescendo.
----
----
Clip 2 - This is the sermon that they cut "America's chickens are coming home to roost." from.

What the context provides:
When Wright says "America's chickens are coming home to roost" he is paraphrasing US Ambassador Edward Peck. Peck is white.

(Listen to this entire sermon here.)
----

You can watch more of these on Trinity's YouTube site.

I saw most of the context prior to this, so I don't know what you're talking about. Some media outlets showed more, some less.

Oh, and did you like his barb about the USSC "stealing" the 2000 election? (clip 1)

Edit: Did you notice his bashing of Bush and praising of Clinton? methinks the IRS would like your clips.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
post #7 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by groverat View Post

When reading the post below remember the media maxim, "Libel on page 1A and retract on page 99Z"


How dare you suggest the media operate in this way just because they have in the past and likely will in the future. Do you have any PROOF the retraction for this, which doesn't exist yet will run on page 99Z?

These are just your mere childish thoughts, your sarcastic ramblings, and they are pathetic!

If you have a point to make, then make it. You are, of course, free to talk like a simpering 8th grade know-it-all, but it's a habit that is destructive to the threads you destroy with it.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply
post #8 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by groverat View Post

I think you might try discussing topics of conversation in a normal tone and not rely on that 15-year-old's sarcasm you rely so heavily on. It degrades every single thread you participate in and turns it into a childish slapfight. It is nearly impossible to have a rational, adult conversation on this forum with the incessant baiting.

It is pathetic.

If you have a point to make, then make it. You are, of course, free to talk like a simpering 8th grade know-it-all, but it's a habit that is destructive to the threads you destroy with it.

Could not have said this better.

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
post #9 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

How dare you suggest the media operate in this way just because they have in the past and likely will in the future. Do you have any PROOF the retraction for this, which doesn't exist yet will run on page 99Z?

These are just your mere childish thoughts, your sarcastic ramblings, and they are pathetic!

If you have a point to make, then make it. You are, of course, free to talk like a simpering 8th grade know-it-all, but it's a habit that is destructive to the threads you destroy with it.

What's riding your ass these days? Wife an Obama supporter? Children think they're turning Japanese?
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
Reply
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
Reply
post #10 of 191
Thread Starter 
SDW:

If the IRS is going to start investigating political speech in churches in an honest and fair way then you won't even be able to hear Wright supporters for the weeping and wailing coming from the right-wing evangelical community.
proud resident of a failed state
Reply
proud resident of a failed state
Reply
post #11 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

I think it's this clip;

Clip 2

Context is always important, Fix/Faux News/Noise? Nothing but a Republican propaganda machine.

The sad part is that this is a Hillary engineered slam. She's doing McCain's dirty work for him. By the time the national convention comes around, with the michigan/florida mealt down waiting, the party and candidates will be so damaged it wont matter what gaffs McCain makes.

Context is lost in these situations. The entire trust of the Trinity Church is the "Black liberation theology". To me that would be the context. I don't do it often but the "what if he were white ..." or "what if he were talking about homosexuals ..." gedanken clearly shows these comments to be unacceptable. But then again the words of most hysterical bible thumpers are unacceptable to me.




I would like to hear the argument for the context of the HIV comments. I'm asking without sarcasm.
post #12 of 191
The fear isn't that Obama and Clinton are destroying each other; it's that McCain's favorability ratings are so high because no one is attacking him.

Quote:
I think it's hard not to look at John McCain's surge to a 67 percent favorable rating and conclude that Democrats are paying a pretty steep price for the never-ending nature of the Obama-Clinton race. It's just impossible for attacks on McCain to gain any real traction without McCain having an official opponent who can press those attacks.
post #13 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by mydo View Post

The sad part is that this is a Hillary engineered slam. She's doing McCain's dirty work for him. By the time the national convention comes around, with the michigan/florida mealt down waiting, the party and candidates will be so damaged it wont matter what gaffs McCain makes.

Context is lost in these situations. The entire trust of the Trinity Church is the "Black liberation theology". To me that would be the context. I don't do it often but the "what if he were white ..." or "what if he were talking about homosexuals ..." gedanken clearly shows these comments to be unacceptable. But then again the words of most hysterical bible thumpers are unacceptable to me.




I would like to hear the argument for the context of the HIV comments. I'm asking without sarcasm.

... most prople. \ When the vast majority of people can't pay attention for more than 30 seconds (e. g. length of a political advertisement).

[CENTER]
Quote:
All thought experiments, however, employ a methodology that is a priori, rather than empirical, in that they do not proceed by observation or physical experiment.

[/CENTER]

Most people revert to a priori stereotypes, rather trying to be objective.
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
Reply
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
Reply
post #14 of 191
Thread Starter 
mydo:

The context for the HIV comments is simple paranoia. The US government has a history of germ warfare against citizens and programs meant to harm the black community.

Obviously, the epidemiological history of HIV/AIDS makes it damned clear that the US government didn't invent AIDS to kill black people. Wright is certainly off his nut on that one.

However, the message of such an outlandish accusation is to address the problem of the US government targeting blacks for direct harm and also ignoring black concerns.

It was a stupid and incendiary thing for Wright to say. As Obama said in his recent speech, "As such, Reverend Wright's comments were not only wrong but divisive, divisive at a time when we need unity; racially charged at a time when we need to come together to solve a set of monumental problems..."
proud resident of a failed state
Reply
proud resident of a failed state
Reply
post #15 of 191
Look, Obama can't win with these asses. He never will. He'll never distance himself enough. He'll never denounce and renounce enough. Shit, they made Clinton apologize like five or six times and they STILL didn't think he apologized "the right way" or "good enough".

Why are we bothering to convince these idiots that guilt by association is wrong and shouldn't matter? It's an endless circle argument. And Trumpt and SDW take great glee at perpetuating it. Because they honestly don't believe this shit. They're just having a load of fun. That's it.

The 527's they'll most likely donate to will make sure this is the new "swiftboat" of this cycle.

They won't let it go. They can't. It's all they got on the guy. They're truly afraid Obama's the next Slick Willie, because little sticks to him. Even Big Bill on Charlie Rose said Obama's a better politician than he was. Bob Barr admitted on Bill Maher they HAD to attack Clinton constantly because "he was that good."

Same shit. Different day.
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
Reply
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
Reply
post #16 of 191
Point taken although I don't entirely agree with your reasoning.


For me this shows Obama to be more of a politician like all the others. I'm sure he belonged to Trinity for his beliefs as well as it's votes (and donations). Wright is your typical showman. I'm sure each week he's worried about filling the pews (and donation plate) and calculates what he thinks people want to hear to get them to show up. He's no different than Swaggart or Falwell. But because he's african american there's a context and oh gosh you just have to understand where he's coming from Zealots and charlatans the lot of them.
post #17 of 191
Wright is NOT running for president.
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
Reply
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
Reply
post #18 of 191
Thread Starter 
mydo:

Firstly, Obama joined Trinity about a decade before his political career started. It cannot rationally be argued that he joined for political gain.

Secondly, Wright isn't a showman like, say, Joel Osteen. Wright earned a Master of Divinity from U-Chicago Divinity and a Doctor of Divinity from United Theological Seminary. Osteen, on the other hand, has never attended any kind of seminary or theological school (the same is true for Ted Haggard, for instance).

Of course, it is my opinion that those degrees are advanced studies in delusion, but that doesn't mean that there are no degrees of sincerity within the professional world of Bible-peddling.

Wright is quite different from Swaggart and Falwell because Wright doesn't use the demonization of oppressed minority groups as the backbone of his "ministry". He doesn't preach of a hateful god that is bringing down wrath on the wicked homos and liberals. He's a demagogue,sure, but a very different demagogue.
proud resident of a failed state
Reply
proud resident of a failed state
Reply
post #19 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by groverat View Post

If the IRS is going to start investigating political speech in churches in an honest and fair way then you won't even be able to hear Wright supporters for the weeping and wailing coming from the right-wing evangelical community.

Which would be *awesome*.
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
post #20 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by groverat View Post

Wright is quite different from Swaggart and Falwell because Wright doesn't use the demonization of oppressed minority groups as the backbone of his "ministry". He doesn't preach of a hateful god that is bringing down wrath on the wicked homos and liberals. He's a demagogue,sure, but a very different demagogue.

"God damn America" - Rev Wright. It's hateful to preach that white people invented HIV to kill blacks. That's accusing white people of murder. Just see it for what it is. It's not complex.


I'm atheist so all of these pulpit jockeys are ... um ... pulpit jockeys to me.

I don't know that Obama used Trinity to get votes and you don't know that he didn't. I'm going to guess that getting elected on the south side of Chicago means you have to belong to the right something or other. The whole thing is nonsence and shouldn't matter. But Obama can't have it both ways. He can't have Trinity matter when he wants the votes and then not matter when he wants other votes. This really bit him in the ass and he didn't do well with it.
post #21 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

Which would be *awesome*.

No it wouldn't. What you want is for people you don't agree with to shut up or the government will do something to them. There are other people that don't agree with you and want the government to shut you up or have something bad happen to you.
post #22 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by mydo View Post

No it wouldn't. What you want is for people you don't agree with to shut up or the government will do something to them. There are other people that don't agree with you and want the government to shut you up or have something bad happen to you.

First, I don't think that made grammatical sense at all, particularly the second sentence.

Second, I think that church participation in elections should be clamped down on - it is an undeclared gift to a politician when the preacher (particularly on TV) says "vote this way", and it puts their non-profit status in question. In fact - just get rid of the non-profit status of churches and they can talk however they like...
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
post #23 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

First, I don't think that made grammatical sense at all, particularly the second sentence.

Second, I think that church participation in elections should be clamped down on - it is an undeclared gift to a politician when the preacher (particularly on TV) says "vote this way", and it puts their non-profit status in question. In fact - just get rid of the non-profit status of churches and they can talk however they like...

Why not go the other way and allow all non-profits free speech unfettered?
post #24 of 191
Thread Starter 
mydo:

One cannot know Obama's true intentions, but it takes quite a bit to think that a guy would join a church 8 years in advance of a political career. This is especially true when there is absolutely real evidence (or even hearsay) that joining the church was a net political benefit. That is merely an assumption thrown out by conservatives.
proud resident of a failed state
Reply
proud resident of a failed state
Reply
post #25 of 191
Thrown out my conservatives? Everyone know if you want to sell something in the community you have to join the church. Obviously he didn't join to run for office but if you want the votes you can use the church. The link between politics and the church is well known and crosses party lines. Obama was all over Wright until he started on a national campaign. Just because Obama is black and a democrat doesn't mean it's not all the same thing. Now I'm starting to sound like Ferraro.
post #26 of 191
Thread Starter 
mydo:

Quote:
Everyone know if you want to sell something in the community you have to join the church.

Does everyone know that? And what community? Which church?

Quote:
Obviously he didn't join to run for office but if you want the votes you can use the church.

I'm glad it's obvious to you now that he didn't join to run for office.

Quote:
Obama was all over Wright until he started on a national campaign.

This is true. This is very true. And it is worth thinking about.

Why do you think that is?
proud resident of a failed state
Reply
proud resident of a failed state
Reply
post #27 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by groverat View Post

mydo:



Does everyone know that? And what community? Which church?



I'm glad it's obvious to you now that he didn't join to run for office.



This is true. This is very true. And it is worth thinking about.

Why do you think that is?

This is getting boring. Your assumptions are to be taken as fact and mine are to be badgered? Nice try on the whole "context" spin.
post #28 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by mydo View Post

This is getting boring. Your assumptions are to be taken as fact and mine are to be badgered? Nice try on the whole "context" spin.

No but if one of your assumptions is that Barack Obama specifically joined and stayed with his church for political gain, I honestly agree with Groverat that your assumptions are not to be taken seriously.
post #29 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by groverat View Post

mydo:

Firstly, Obama joined Trinity about a decade before his political career started. It cannot rationally be argued that he joined for political gain.

It can easily and rationally argued that one would join a large and powerful mega-church for political gain. It is also clear that there are a number of steps you must take earlier on that increase the likelihood of success in being elected as a representative.

Obama's undergrad degree is in Political Science. He began attending Trinity in the very same year he began law school. He has never held a job in which there was not a political connection.

All these actions point to the same conclusion. He is someone who knew early that he wanted to be elected to office and took the steps necessary to get there.

Another good reason that it can be argued that Obama at a minimum, investigated the church for political reasons is his own claims of initially being a religious skeptic raised by an agnostic mother in a secular household. There is nothing irrational at all about suggesting that his initial investigation of the church likely came from non-religious motivations since there is nothing in his background to suggest a religious motivation.

Maybe it is a little unsavory to think in this manner, much like thinking that Dad and Mom's loving marriage was likely built upon the fact that he was horny and wanted to get into her pants, but it certainly isn't irrational.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply
post #30 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

No but if one of your assumptions is that Barack Obama specifically joined and stayed with his church for political gain, I honestly agree with Groverat that your assumptions are not to be taken seriously.

And I don't think his are either.


Back on topic. What's your opinion tonton? Do you think Wrights comments have been put in context so that they can be understood? Or are his comments unreasonable even within the context provided here?
post #31 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by mydo View Post

And I don't think his are either.


Back on topic. What's your opinion tonton? Do you think Wrights comments have been put in context so that they can be understood? Or are his comments unreasonable even within the context provided here?

I think his comments are unreasonable but not nearly as unreasonable as anything that's come out of the mouths of Right Wing Christians. Not even close.

And unless you haven't been paying attention, Rev. Wright is not up for election. Barack Obama's association with Wright is not worth mentioning, as it has nothing whatsoever to do with Obama's policy or leadership ability.

It is a typical Rovian swift boat smear that should have nothing to do with this election.
post #32 of 191
Thread Starter 
mydo:

Quote:
This is getting boring. Your assumptions are to be taken as fact and mine are to be badgered? Nice try on the whole "context" spin.

You have not established that joining that church helped him politically. I'm not saying it didn't, but you are saying it did.



trumptman:

Quote:
It can easily and rationally argued that one would join a large and powerful mega-church for political gain.

One could, yes, but we have no reason to believe that was the case for Obama and a lot of evidence saying it wasn't.

Quote:
It is also clear that there are a number of steps you must take earlier on that increase the likelihood of success in being elected as a representative.

Like... ?

Quote:
All these actions point to the same conclusion. He is someone who knew early that he wanted to be elected to office and took the steps necessary to get there.

And joining Trinity was necessary step?

It is amusing to see how so many people are now experts on local Chicago politics.

Quote:
Another good reason that it can be argued that Obama at a minimum, investigated the church for political reasons is his own claims of initially being a religious skeptic raised by an agnostic mother in a secular household. There is nothing irrational at all about suggesting that his initial investigation of the church likely came from non-religious motivations since there is nothing in his background to suggest a religious motivation.

I suppose it isn't irrational if you don't actually know anything about what is being discussed.

Quote:
Maybe it is a little unsavory to think in this manner, much like thinking that Dad and Mom's loving marriage was likely built upon the fact that he was horny and wanted to get into her pants, but it certainly isn't irrational.

It's not a matter of it being "unsavory", it's a matter of my having actually read the story of his conversion and joining Trinity. I've actually read his books (most pertinent to this conversation, Dreams From My Father) and I know the story that you obviously don't.
proud resident of a failed state
Reply
proud resident of a failed state
Reply
post #33 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

It can easily and rationally argued that one would join a large and powerful mega-church for political gain. It is also clear that there are a number of steps you must take earlier on that increase the likelihood of success in being elected as a representative.

Obama's undergrad degree is in Political Science. He began attending Trinity in the very same year he began law school. He has never held a job in which there was not a political connection.

All these actions point to the same conclusion. He is someone who knew early that he wanted to be elected to office and took the steps necessary to get there.

Another good reason that it can be argued that Obama at a minimum, investigated the church for political reasons is his own claims of initially being a religious skeptic raised by an agnostic mother in a secular household. There is nothing irrational at all about suggesting that his initial investigation of the church likely came from non-religious motivations since there is nothing in his background to suggest a religious motivation.

Maybe it is a little unsavory to think in this manner, much like thinking that Dad and Mom's loving marriage was likely built upon the fact that he was horny and wanted to get into her pants, but it certainly isn't irrational.

We know when Wright entered the scene in 1972, Trinity started had 87 members, and that now Trinity has between 6K to 10K members depending on the source.

[CENTER]
Quote:
Since 1972, under Dr. Wrights leadership, the membership of Trinity United Church of Christ grew from 87 members; and currently exceeds 6,000!

[/CENTER]

Trinity Pastor

[CENTER]
Quote:
Trinity United Church of Christ is a megachurch with 10,000 members, the largest congregation of the United Church of Christ.

[/CENTER]

Trinity United Church of Christ

The new sanctuary was built in 1995;

[CENTER]
Quote:
In the process, he (Wright) built a spiritual empire. The modest brown brick building that housed the church in the 1970s was converted into a day-care center when Trinity opened its new sanctuary in 1995 at 400 W. 95th St. Members run more than 80 ministries, including an outreach to gay and lesbian singles, --also unusual for a black church.

Quote:
When he took over Trinity United Church of Christ in 1972, Rev. Jeremiah Wright Jr. was a maverick pastor with a wardrobe of dashikis and a militant message.

Six years later, he planted a "Free South Africa" sign on the lawn of his church and asked other local religious leaders to follow his lead.

None took him up on the invitation.

The sign stayed until the end of apartheid, --long enough to catch the eye of a young Barack Obama, who visited the church in 1985 as a community activist. Obama, was not a churchgoer at the time, but he found himself returning to the sanctuary of Trinity United. In Wright he had found both a spiritual mentor and a role model.

Quote:
When the raw, 23-year-old community organizer hit Chicago in early 1985, the racially charged fighting between Harold Washington, the city's first black mayor, and white ethnic aldermen led by Ed Vrdolyak had earned the city a bitter nickname: Beirut on the Lake.
.
.
That mantra of professional organizers has come to define Obama's public life. Even his choice of church in Chicago involved a political calculation of sorts. Now his penchant for pragmatism could prove one of his greatest strengths, or liabilities, on the campaign trail.

[/CENTER]

REV. JEREMIAH A. WRIGHT, JR.: Pastor inspires Obama's 'audacity'
Portrait of a pragmatist - As a raw community organizer in Chicago in the `80s, Obama preached reaching out to attain goals

So I doubt that TUCC was a "Megachurch" in 1985 or 1988. Also if your going to pull stuff in an "out of context" fashion to prove something at least read the entire article(s). \
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
Reply
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
Reply
post #34 of 191
Thread Starter 
It wasn't a megachurch then and it sure as hell wasn't the centerpiece blackchurch in Chicago (it still isn't). The story of Obama's conversion is public record and it has been since 2004.
proud resident of a failed state
Reply
proud resident of a failed state
Reply
post #35 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by mydo View Post

Why not go the other way and allow all non-profits free speech unfettered?

Because people would set up non-profits as a way to get around election donation laws.
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
post #36 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

Because people would set up non-profits as a way to get around election donation laws.

If those laws didn't exist we wouldn't have to go around them. These laws HAVE NOT made things better and are being used as a political weapon. Junk It.
post #37 of 191
Obama dropped 10 points in the polls and back up again after these latest attacks. I'm starting to think that Clinton is not going to let up until Obama is destroyed and McCain wins - I think she is behind all of the attacks ("he went to a secular madrassa", etc).

There is no way that Clinton can win the election, and unless she drops out soon there won't be any way that Obama can win either. Oh well, at least I get to keep my capital gains rate at 15% - but I may have to leave the country when things go straight to hell in 15 or 20 years.
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
post #38 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by mydo View Post

If those laws didn't exist we wouldn't have to go around them. These laws HAVE NOT made things better and are being used as a political weapon. Junk It.

Great. Just another way of ensuring that those who have the power keep it. Why don't we just go back to the dark ages where there was a proper -- and fair (according to libertarians and free market economists) -- division between aristocracy and poverty.
post #39 of 191
Thread Starter 
e1418978:

The Wright fiasco will never again reach the pitch it did over the last couple of weeks. Obama is through the worst of it.

I agree with you about Clinton. I wish I didn't think that way, but she doesn't give me any other choice.
proud resident of a failed state
Reply
proud resident of a failed state
Reply
post #40 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Great. Just another way of ensuring that those who have the power keep it. Why don't we just go back to the dark ages where there was a proper -- and fair (according to libertarians and free market economists) -- division between aristocracy and poverty.

But that's what we have now anyway. Corzine, Romney, Soros, Bush, Spitzer ... so what you are afraid of is what we have. These laws have done nothing.


BUT when some minister in Chicago says the "wrong things" well then there need investigation to yank the tax exempt status. That's the part I don't like. All laws that can be used to shut someone up are wrong and should be removed from the books. There's a reason why it's the first amendment.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: PoliticalOutsider
AppleInsider › Forums › Other Discussion › AppleOutsider › PoliticalOutsider › Wright in Context - What The Media Didn't Show