AppleInsider › Forums › Mac Hardware › Future Apple Hardware › Eating our words: Apple's Mac mini to rock on
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Eating our words: Apple's Mac mini to rock on - Page 4

post #121 of 290
3/22/08 at 8:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by EagerDragon View Post

At this rate the Mac Mini is going to cost 1700.

You love to dream of a mini with capabilities no other Mac has.

I guess it no longer will be an entry level Mac if they were to add all of that.

Too funny.

All of what? If you're going to mock somebody, it's a good idea to quote them so people have some idea of what you're talking about.
Reply
Reply
post #122 of 290
3/22/08 at 9:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak View Post

You might want to do something about your haughty tone if you don't want to be seen as attacking an entire post.

Cannot help the "haughty" thing, I'm an old-school Mac user. Everyone knows we think we are better than anyone else. It's bleed-thru of Steve Jobs' Id when one is exposed to the RDF

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak View Post

Just putting "Wrong" all by itself in a paragraph is the height of arrogance.

I must have missed that memo

Will it help next time if I slap a smiley on the end of my haughty & arrogant replies to others posts?!?

;^p
Late 2009 Unibody MacBook (modified)
2.26GHz Core 2 Duo CPU/8GB RAM/60GB SSD/500GB HDD
SuperDrive delete
Reply
Late 2009 Unibody MacBook (modified)
2.26GHz Core 2 Duo CPU/8GB RAM/60GB SSD/500GB HDD
SuperDrive delete
Reply
post #123 of 290
3/22/08 at 10:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The X4500 GPU uses the GM45 chipset, which support DisplayPort. My reasoning is two fold for Apple including it later this year in their product line:
1) It's free, unlike HDMI.
2) It's open.

I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm speaking strictly about the timeframe it takes the entire display industry to move to the DisplayPort.
Reply
Reply
post #124 of 290
3/23/08 at 12:46am
I just want to know what AI's problem is with the mac mini, they love to wave the doom hammer around it whenever they get the chance.
Reply
Reply
post #125 of 290
3/23/08 at 5:40am
Quote:
Eating our words: Apple's Mac mini to rock on

About Time you owned up to the self centered arrogance of that (old) article. It was complete fantasy, and given the position of this website and the nature of the web, the article was linked to and quoted from all over the net. IF the mini had been under consideration and consideration ONLY, to be EOL by Apple, the articles stupidity and false assuredness would surely have sent a ripple to Apple. I very much doubt that Apple would EOL a product because of superfluous web chatter, but it had potential to cause ill feeling.
Had the mini been cancelled due to influence from this article it would have deprived many of the users of this site, of a very capable low cost Apple machine.

It felt like total link bait to be honest, and the righteous, ill founded conviction was noting but opinionated self aggrandizement. PLEASE don't stoop to that level again. I'm sure this site would be all the better for it.

Thank you for your time

WS
I don't see how an anti M$ stance can be seen as a bad thing on an Apple forum I really can't!

nagromme - According to Amazon: "SpongBob Typing Tutor" is outselling Windows
Reply
I don't see how an anti M$ stance can be seen as a bad thing on an Apple forum I really can't!

nagromme - According to Amazon: "SpongBob Typing Tutor" is outselling Windows
Reply
post #126 of 290
3/23/08 at 6:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRonin View Post

Cannot help the "haughty" thing, I'm an old-school Mac user. Everyone knows we think we are better than anyone else. It's bleed-thru of Steve Jobs' Id when one is exposed to the RDF…

I must have missed that memo…

Will it help next time if I slap a smiley on the end of my haughty & arrogant replies to others posts?!?

;^p

Why am I not surprised? Haughtiness followed by pride in it. You still refuse to own up to being wrong about your "pressure on the optical drive" reason when confronted with the actual reason in Apple's mini manual. Only other people can be wrong, right?
Reply
Reply
post #127 of 290
3/23/08 at 6:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm speaking strictly about the timeframe it takes the entire display industry to move to the DisplayPort.

OTOH, the entire industry doesn't have to move for Apple to do so. DisplayPort can connect to DVI screens using a cheap dongle, IIRC. The only question is how much, if any, cost putting in DisplayPort would add to the mini. Apple has a long history of using proprietary display connectors, including ADC (okay, only de facto proprietary because nobody else used it), the mini-DVI ports on the Powerbook G4s and Macbooks and especially the connectors on pre-PowerPC Macs, so this wouldn't be out of character if they wanted to leapfrog the curve.
Reply
Reply
post #128 of 290
3/23/08 at 7:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRonin View Post

Swing and a miss

The top is plastic, which happens to be an insulator, not a conductor

Back to the bench with you!

Last time I checked, my Mini is actively cooled via air vents around the bottom perimeter and a fan out the back.

The Mini isn't cooled by convection (unlike the Cube or the original Mac 128k).

Oh, and plastic does conduct heat... just not as well as some metals.
Reply
Reply
post #129 of 290
3/23/08 at 8:04am
If you look at the Extreme series of the new Penryn line, you'll see they are talking about a 3.0GHz part, so maybe the top CTO iMac will top out at 3.0 GHz. If the other models got a GHz bump, you would expect the top model also to go above the 2.8 GHz of the previous generation.
The MACaholic
Reply
The MACaholic
Reply
post #130 of 290
3/23/08 at 9:07am
I would love Apple to change the design enough so that the power supply is housed within the mini,and there isn't this huge power supply (that's almost as big as the mini) hanging off of the thing. It kinda defeats the purpose of the mini — hiding that brick. I like how the brick is included inside the Apple TV, which has a smaller slimmer design that's reminiscent of the Mac min. I think Apple could accomplish the same thing with the mini. They might have to increase its footprint slightly, like the Apple TV, but I, for one, would heartily welcome such a change!
You think Im an arrogant [expletive] who thinks hes above the law, and I think youre a slime bucket who gets most of his facts wrong. Steve Jobs
Reply
You think Im an arrogant [expletive] who thinks hes above the law, and I think youre a slime bucket who gets most of his facts wrong. Steve Jobs
Reply
post #131 of 290
3/23/08 at 9:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak View Post

OTOH, the entire industry doesn't have to move for Apple to do so. DisplayPort can connect to DVI screens using a cheap dongle, IIRC. The only question is how much, if any, cost putting in DisplayPort would add to the mini.

The mini gets lagging technology as the more premier lines move forward. IMO, it seems to be a kind of home for the leftover laptop-grade parts until stock get depleted. I think that's the only desktop device now without 802.11n support. My take is to not expect new technology like DisplayPort to show up first in the mini, you would be more likely to see it first in the iMac (which is also overdue due for a Penryn refresh).

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHagan4755 View Post

I would love Apple to change the design enough so that the power supply is housed within the mini,and there isn't this huge power supply (that's almost as big as the mini) hanging off of the thing. It kinda defeats the purpose of the mini — hiding that brick. I like how the brick is included inside the Apple TV, which has a smaller slimmer design that's reminiscent of the Mac min. I think Apple could accomplish the same thing with the mini. They might have to increase its footprint slightly, like the Apple TV, but I, for one, would heartily welcome such a change!

Good point, the @TV and the TC both got larger form factors and built-in power supplies. I think that would be a good direction for the Mini. Wouldn't that mean it would have to get the same form factor as the @TV and TC? The inside of a mini is pretty cramped right now.

  Google Maps: ("Directions may be inaccurate, incomplete, dangerous, or prohibited.")

 

  MA497LL/A FB463LL/A MC572LL/A FC060LL/A MC700LL/A MD481LL/A MD644LL/A MD388LL/A

Reply

  Google Maps: ("Directions may be inaccurate, incomplete, dangerous, or prohibited.")

 

  MA497LL/A FB463LL/A MC572LL/A FC060LL/A MC700LL/A MD481LL/A MD644LL/A MD388LL/A

Reply
post #132 of 290
3/23/08 at 10:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak View Post

All of what? If you're going to mock somebody, it's a good idea to quote them so people have some idea of what you're talking about.

You seem ready to fight, like you have a chip on your shoulder. Take a chill, other people are allowed to have opinions that differ from yours.

Besides Apple made the mini the lowest class of Mac for a reason, wishing it to be something else is not going to change Apples plans.

This guy got it right on the money, there is no good reason to change the mini much other than updating it to the level of the MB:
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

You're missing the whole point to the Mini. It's a basic, simple machine designed for home, entry level business and educational users.

Here are some of the examples you are looking for, these will increase the cost of a mini to 1700 or even more, yet they want it for the same price or less. I assume you will flame me after this based on that chip on your shoulder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirrel_Monkey View Post

I say stick a Blu-Ray SuperDrive in that sucker.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magic_Al View Post

The Mac mini would do well positioned as a Super Apple TV. In conjunction with EyeTV, wireless input, and digitally-connected TV and audio output, it's pretty cool. I call it the Sofa Mac. It should get a version of Front Row that does everything Apple TV Take Two does plus DVD playback that accesses more features of the DVD Player app (such as video zoom) and offers more seamless integration with EyeTV, or better yet a built-in TV tuner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

Include a PCIExpress 2.0 slot and you'll have sales increase rapidly. This would require either a slim profile GPU or you modify the case design. I don't care. Do it and you'll see that market segment owned by Shuttle and Asus take a respectable hit.

It would require a new power supply as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by firevsh2o View Post

I will buy a mini with the specs of the new mac books when it arrives (250GB HD, 2GB RAM - up to 4GB possible)

My dream Mac would be the so called xMac with a real GPU.

With the new glossy screens on the iMac - that I hate - the Mini is the only Mac I can buy. So bring on the update Apple! (or give me a matte option on the iMac....!!!!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I wonder if the engineering team is enlarging it so a 3.5" HDD and space for a discrete GPU. Nah.

I do think that DVI will be replaced with DisplayPort on all their future systems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShinySteelRobot View Post

I had a Mac Mini and loved it. Gave it to my mom, and currently I'm using a MacBook, and I have a separate PC for games. But I'd happily ditch the PC and go with an all-Mac household again if:
1) Apple put a slot in the Mini for a discrete GPU expansion card
2) Apple allowed use of a standard 3.5" desktop 7200 rpm hard drive internally

The discrete mobile GPU would allow gamers (such as World of Warcraft players) to play their games at a good framerate. The current integrated 3100 graphics, like the 950 and 900 graphics before them, are really mediocre for games like WoW (i.e., borderline unplayable in some parts of the game).

Both of these changes would require increasing the case size a bit, but not dramatically so. It would be like a half-height Apple Cube, but without the pricey plexiglass enclosure!

Apple, are you listening?

Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

The smartest thing they could do would be to dump the form factor and make the damn thing big enough to use desktop parts, specifically a 3.5 hard drive and a desktop optical drive. But they haven't ever been smart with this model.

At the very least, up the ram. And dual monitor support would be huge.

I have a mini and I like it, but I have to admit I'd rather see apple just dump the model in favor of a larger (and better...and probably cheaper as well) unit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

As usual, a good GPU, dual display support and a faster hard drive would be nice but I like my Mini way more than I ever could an iMac even as it is so I can live with it.

When SSD gets mainstream, I won't care about HDD. I'd take a 64GB SSD over a 250GB HDD any day simply for the performance increase. I'll use an external HDD for extra space.

If the Mini is the same price, I will be able to get a 1680x1050 HDMI display, a Mini and an XBox 360 for less than the entry iMac and I should be able to use the HDMI display for the 360 too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ksec View Post

Why X31000 and not X4500HD which is only 3 months away?
DisplayPort would be great. I think we leave the HDMI for Apple TV.
Bluetooth 2.1 + EDR??
Wireless 802.11N?
Super Drive as standard? ( About fxxking time )
Reply
Reply
post #133 of 290
3/23/08 at 10:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak View Post

Why am I not surprised? Haughtiness followed by pride in it. You still refuse to own up to being wrong about your "pressure on the optical drive" reason when confronted with the actual reason in Apple's mini manual. Only other people can be wrong, right?

Since solipsism already did the leg work

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I perused the latest Mac Mini manual

Important: Dont place anything on top of your Mac mini.

Objects placed on top may interfere with the optical drive or the AirPort or Bluetooth ® wireless signal.

Huh, seems to be a key reason to me, especially since it is the very first thing Apple mentions.

Late 2009 Unibody MacBook (modified)
2.26GHz Core 2 Duo CPU/8GB RAM/60GB SSD/500GB HDD
SuperDrive delete
Reply
Late 2009 Unibody MacBook (modified)
2.26GHz Core 2 Duo CPU/8GB RAM/60GB SSD/500GB HDD
SuperDrive delete
Reply
post #134 of 290
3/23/08 at 11:55am
The Mac Mini is a great idea at the wrong price.

If it was even vaguely competitive with all the PCs out there not to mention Apple's own range, it would fly off the shelves.
Reply
Reply
post #135 of 290
3/23/08 at 12:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gastroboy View Post

The Mac Mini is a great idea at the wrong price.

If it was even vaguely competitive with all the PCs out there not to mention Apple's own range, it would fly off the shelves.

What do you mean by "great idea"? It's bijou size requires it to use more expensive components for the performance and capacity compared to PC desktops. This means it will never be competitive with most desktops.

There are some Mac Mini copycats out there that usually come as shells and tend to cost more than the Mini once completed.

What Apple needs to be comparable to the majority of other headless desktops out there is the mid-range tower that peopleespecially on this forumhave been asking for for years. The Mini in it's current form can never be that.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #136 of 290
3/23/08 at 12:20pm
I am not opposed to increasing the footprint/size of the Mac mini to accommodate an internal power supply. I would also be very much in favor of it becoming user serviceable like the cube was, so that if one wanted to put a larger drive in it, as time progresses and drive capacities grow, a user could do that...as well as upgrading RAM modules.

If it heralded those improvements, along with the the move to Santa Rose and Penryn, it would be a steal at $599.

Oh, one more thing — HDMI port would be killer. Although that would probably go against Apple's grain in trying to market the Apple TV.
You think Im an arrogant [expletive] who thinks hes above the law, and I think youre a slime bucket who gets most of his facts wrong. Steve Jobs
Reply
You think Im an arrogant [expletive] who thinks hes above the law, and I think youre a slime bucket who gets most of his facts wrong. Steve Jobs
Reply
post #137 of 290
3/23/08 at 12:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DHagan4755 View Post

I am not opposed to increasing the footprint/size of the Mac mini to accommodate an internal power supply. I would also be very much in favor of it becoming user serviceable like the cube was, so that if one wanted to put a larger drive in it, as time progresses and drive capacities grow, a user could do that...as well as upgrading RAM modules.

If it heralded those improvements, along with the the move to Santa Rose and Penryn, it would be a steal at $599.

Oh, one more thing — HDMI port would be killer. Although that would probably go against Apple's grain in trying to market the Apple TV.

I agree, If Apple were to increase the foot print of the box it would open the mini to more power and lower overall cost as less expensive components could be used including larger and faster drives and heat could be less of an issue in a bigger enclosure. Not sure what Apple think in this area, an enclosure similar to the TC could make a real difference.
Reply
Reply
post #138 of 290
3/23/08 at 4:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kirasaw View Post

I understand that what I need is something better than a Mini but less than a Mac Pro

And many of us agree that such a headless machine should be built.
Reply
Reply
post #139 of 290
3/23/08 at 4:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak View Post

All of what? If you're going to mock somebody, it's a good idea to quote them so people have some idea of what you're talking about.

But he does have a point. If you look at all the features that people are asking for, the price of the machine would rise considerably, as would the size.

Then it would no longer be the Mini either in price or size.

It would become the Midi, without being a tower.
Reply
Reply
post #140 of 290
3/23/08 at 4:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post

The mini gets lagging technology as the more premier lines move forward. IMO, it seems to be a kind of home for the leftover laptop-grade parts until stock get depleted. I think that's the only desktop device now without 802.11n support. My take is to not expect new technology like DisplayPort to show up first in the mini, you would be more likely to see it first in the iMac (which is also overdue due for a Penryn refresh).


Good point, the @TV and the TC both got larger form factors and built-in power supplies. I think that would be a good direction for the Mini. Wouldn't that mean it would have to get the same form factor as the @TV and TC? The inside of a mini is pretty cramped right now.

I'm not sure if the form factor would be big enough. The Mini needs more power than the other two, which is why it uses a brick.
Reply
Reply
post #141 of 290
3/23/08 at 4:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by EagerDragon View Post


Besides Apple made the mini the lowest class of Mac for a reason, wishing it to be something else is not going to change Apples plans.

This guy got it right on the money, there is no good reason to change the mini much other than updating it to the level of the MB:

This is what I'm saying, so...

Quote:
Here are some of the examples you are looking for, these will increase the cost of a mini to 1700 or even more, yet they want it for the same price or less. I assume you will flame me after this based on that chip on your shoulder.

I have no idea why you think I've got a chip on my shoulder or why you think I would flame you.

Are you sure you are referring to me?
Reply
Reply
post #142 of 290
3/23/08 at 4:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

This is what I'm saying, so...

I have no idea why you think I've got a chip on my shoulder or why you think I would flame you.

Are you sure you are referring to me?

It was a bit confusing as stated but I think he was referring to Kolchak both times as having a "chip on his shoulder" and used you as an example of "getting it right" with his comment above your quoted text stating:

"[Melgross] got it right on the money, there is no good reason to change the mini much other than updating it to the level of the MB:"

Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #143 of 290
3/23/08 at 4:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

It was a bit confusing as stated but I think he was referring to Kolchak both times as having a "chip on his shoulder" and used you as an example of "getting it right" with his comment above your quoted text stating:

"[Melgross] got it right on the money, there is no good reason to change the mini much other than updating it to the level of the MB:"


I though he was, but I just want to be clear about it.
Reply
Reply
post #144 of 290
3/23/08 at 5:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by EagerDragon View Post

You seem ready to fight, like you have a chip on your shoulder. Take a chill, other people are allowed to have opinions that differ from yours.

Yes, people are allowed to have different opinions. But it's very hard to know what you're talking about when you just come in and write, "You love to dream of a mini with capabilities no other Mac has." You who? It's not that hard to hit the reply button, which automatically quotes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

But he does have a point. If you look at all the features that people are asking for, the price of the machine would rise considerably, as would the size.

All I asked for was proper attribution for what he was responding to, since it was very unclear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Then it would no longer be the Mini either in price or size.

It would become the Midi, without being a tower.

Some people. Not all. Quite a few of us are saying don't bother with expensive laptop components and use desktop components, which cost less for comparable or better performance. A 1TB 3.5" drive costs about the same as a 200GB 2.5" drive. Likewise, a 500GB desktop drive costs about the same as a 120GB laptop. That's a compelling difference in price. If Apple were to use the cheaper components, they could get a $500 mini with only a small sacrifice in footprint, or even a smaller footprint if they do something like Dell's ultra small form factor towers.
Reply
Reply
post #145 of 290
3/23/08 at 5:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak View Post

Some people. Not all. Quite a few of us are saying don't bother with expensive laptop components and use desktop components, which cost less for comparable or better performance. A 1TB 3.5" drive costs about the same as a 200GB 2.5" drive. Likewise, a 500GB desktop drive costs about the same as a 120GB laptop. That's a compelling difference in price. If Apple were to use the cheaper components, they could get a $500 mini with only a small sacrifice in footprint, or even a smaller footprint if they do something like Dell's ultra small form factor towers.

I don't think we would see a difference in price.

We seem to have gone over this before.

The savings in one area would be made up by the extra expense in another. Bigger desktop drives use much more power, and give off much more heat than do laptop drives, so a bigger power supply, fan and case is in order. A total remake of the Mobo and other components would also be required. I really don't see much savings.

Not that I disagree with your proposition. I agree that this would make for a more desirable machine, though it would be noisier.

Dell's towers are less expensive because Dell accepts a much lower margin on its cheap products that is made up by their vast sales of servers and professional services, neither of which Apple has.
Reply
Reply
post #146 of 290
3/23/08 at 6:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

This is what I'm saying, so...



I have no idea why you think I've got a chip on my shoulder or why you think I would flame you.

Are you sure you are referring to me?

Not you I was talking to another guy (kolchak).
Your post was listed as one that was realistic.

So it was not about you, sorry.
Reply
Reply
post #147 of 290
3/23/08 at 6:25pm
Inquiring minds want to know...

I was curious to know the price of a comparable Dell mini-tower. Unfortunately, that is not possible. The cheapest Dell starts at $350, but includes an 1.6GHz Celeron, They have a C2D option for $180 more, but that is 2.33Ghz (E6540) desktop version. The CPU in the Dell is $170 on Newegg, while the 2.0GHz (T7200) notebook version used in the Mini is $300.

Newegg also sells the default internal 3.5" 250GB HDD as low as $60 and the default 2.5" 120GB HDD as low as $70, so that is pretty much a wash. Dell also charges $120 more for the best version of Vista over Vista Basic (there is no XP offer), $40 for BT and $30 for 2xFW400, but Dell also offers many options that Apple doesn't and most won't need BT or FW. In Dell's favour, they did offer 2GB 667MHz RAM for half the price of Apple.

In the end, the Dell is a better deal on paper but you also get Vista and all the crapware that comes with these builds. I don't think the small difference in price is inconsequential compared to simplicity, which is one reason I think we are seeing so many switchers to OS X.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #148 of 290
3/23/08 at 7:00pm
If they had the new Intel x4500HD video(coming out in june) I will be really impressed. 3x faster than the current x3100 and can handle full HD video off loading. Not bad for an onboard chip.
Reply
Reply
post #149 of 290
3/23/08 at 7:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by archer75 View Post

If they had the new Intel x4500HD video I will be really impressed. 3x faster than the current x3100 and can handle full HD video off loading. Not bad for an onboard chip.

But it doesn't even have the 3100, yet. MacBooks will get the 4500 a long time before the Mini will.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #150 of 290
3/23/08 at 7:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Inquiring minds want to know...

I was curious to know the price of a comparable Dell mini-tower. Unfortunately, that is not possible. The cheapest Dell starts at $350, but includes an 1.6GHz Celeron, They have a C2D option for $180 more, but that is 2.33Ghz (E6540) desktop version. The CPU in the Dell is $170 on Newegg, while the 2.0GHz (T7200) notebook version used in the Mini is $300.

Newegg also sells the default internal 3.5" 250GB HDD as low as $60 and the default 2.5" 120GB HDD as low as $70, so that is pretty much a wash. Dell also charges $120 for the best version of Vista (there is no XP offer), $40 for BT and $30 for 2xFW400, but Dell also offers many options that Apple doesn't and most won't need BT or FW. In Dell's favour, they did offer 2GB 667MHz RAM for half the price of Apple.

In the end, the Dell is a better deal on paper but you also get Vista and all the crapware that comes with these builds. I don't think the small difference in price is inconsequential compared to simplicity, which is one reason I think we are seeing so many switchers to OS X.

some dells have built in firewire and you can get firewire cards $9-$20 on line.
Reply
Reply
post #151 of 290
3/23/08 at 7:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

But it doesn't even have the 3100, yet. MacBooks will get the 4500 a long time before the Mini will.

True. But if they want to do a major update this is it. And it would serve to get the mini's into the living rooms(apple tv not doing so hot). I know it would replace my HTPC and front row would be useful. It also makes a nice little server. There are lots of uses for them.

You never know.
Reply
Reply
post #152 of 290
3/23/08 at 7:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Inquiring minds want to know...

I was curious to know the price of a comparable Dell mini-tower. Unfortunately, that is not possible. The cheapest Dell starts at $350, but includes an 1.6GHz Celeron, They have a C2D option for $180 more, but that is 2.33Ghz (E6540) desktop version. The CPU in the Dell is $170 on Newegg, while the 2.0GHz (T7200) notebook version used in the Mini is $300.

Newegg also sells the default internal 3.5" 250GB HDD as low as $60 and the default 2.5" 120GB HDD as low as $70, so that is pretty much a wash. Dell also charges $120 more for the best version of Vista over Vista Basic (there is no XP offer), $40 for BT and $30 for 2xFW400, but Dell also offers many options that Apple doesn't and most won't need BT or FW. In Dell's favour, they did offer 2GB 667MHz RAM for half the price of Apple.

In the end, the Dell is a better deal on paper but you also get Vista and all the crapware that comes with these builds. I don't think the small difference in price is inconsequential compared to simplicity, which is one reason I think we are seeing so many switchers to OS X.

Don't forget coupons. You never buy a dell without one, especially when new ones are posted every day. It's not unusual to find a quad core system with an LCD for under $600.
Reply
Reply
post #153 of 290
3/23/08 at 7:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by archer75 View Post

True. But if they want to do a major update this is it. And it would serve to get the mini's into the living rooms(apple tv not doing so hot). I know it would replace my HTPC and front row would be useful.

You never know.

The Miini has never been a forerunner for new tech from Apple. I wouldn't expect it now. If we see an updated Mini in the same case it will be using nothing greater than the current midrange MacBook components.


Quote:
Originally Posted by archer75 View Post

Don't forget coupons. You never buy a dell without one, especially when new ones are posted every day. It's not unusual to find a quad core system with an LCD for under $600.

I always forget coupons. Partly because I never use them (for anything) and partly because frugal shoppers looking for the cheapest* deal are not the demographic Apple is targeting.

* Cheapest, as in the initial cost with no consideration for total cost of ownership.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #154 of 290
3/23/08 at 7:36pm
For those pricing concern.
I dont think pricing is a big concern for using X4500 HD. Considering Intel is aggressively pricing it ( I cant
remember how much it was but it was around the same price as a P45. )
I hope Apple seriously work on the Intel Drivers to bring the best out of it.

Previously Mac Mini is expensive because of its small form factor. Manufacturing Mini - ITX Mb is expensive because of its small quantities. Only few Mb Manufacturer is making it. But recent years ( or months ) we have seen a big explosion of Mini ITX Mb. I am not sure if there is a market demand surge or a Push from Intel Atom Based Processor. But this should be more then enough to off set the cost from G45.

A few Mini ITX broad here
http://www.mini-itx.com/



The broad will properly stripped with only 2 Internal SATA , 1x PCI Express, 1 ESATA, 4 USB, 1 DisplayPort and 1 Firewire and 1 Gigabit Ethernet. as well as Audio Port.

As For DisplayPort. I think HDMI is a replacement to S-Video, Component. Not DVI and LDVS. That is What DisplayPort is for. It allow daisy chain for easy Muti Monitor connection. And in future Data Link for USB data transfer.

Although i have no idea about the cost of DisplayPort Chip would add. ( Or if it is needed for G45 )
Reply
Reply
post #155 of 290
3/23/08 at 10:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksec View Post

For those pricing concern.
I dont think pricing is a big concern for using X4500 HD. Considering Intel is aggressively pricing it ( I cant
remember how much it was but it was around the same price as a P45. )
I hope Apple seriously work on the Intel Drivers to bring the best out of it.

Previously Mac Mini is expensive because of its small form factor. Manufacturing Mini - ITX Mb is expensive because of its small quantities. Only few Mb Manufacturer is making it. But recent years ( or months ) we have seen a big explosion of Mini ITX Mb. I am not sure if there is a market demand surge or a Push from Intel Atom Based Processor. But this should be more then enough to off set the cost from G45.

A few Mini ITX broad here
http://www.mini-itx.com/



The broad will properly stripped with only 2 Internal SATA , 1x PCI Express, 1 ESATA, 4 USB, 1 DisplayPort and 1 Firewire and 1 Gigabit Ethernet. as well as Audio Port.

As For DisplayPort. I think HDMI is a replacement to S-Video, Component. Not DVI and LDVS. That is What DisplayPort is for. It allow daisy chain for easy Muti Monitor connection. And in future Data Link for USB data transfer.

Although i have no idea about the cost of DisplayPort Chip would add. ( Or if it is needed for G45 )

As one poster earlier stated, it looks like Apple will follow the normal pattern of using the parts used in the Macbook to update the Mac Mini. But if Apple wanted to "go in a different direction" , using a Mini ITX board like the one above would be a good move. They could also use this type for a Apple TV upgrade as well, using the announced Intel Atom processor....
Reply
Reply
post #156 of 290
3/23/08 at 10:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronster View Post

As one poster earlier stated, it looks like Apple will follow the normal pattern of using the parts used in the Macbook to update the Mac Mini. But if Apple wanted to "go in a different direction" , using a Mini ITX board like the one above would be a good move. They could also use this type for a Apple TV upgrade as well, using the announced Intel Atom processor....

Using Atom later on down the road in the AppleTV seems like a good move so long as they keep that discrete GPU, but they will most definitely design the mobo from the ground up as usual. I've heard that part of this decision is to make it harder for hackers to port OS X, but I can't confirm that.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #157 of 290
3/23/08 at 11:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

What do you mean by "great idea"? It's bijou size requires it to use more expensive components for the performance and capacity compared to PC desktops. This means it will never be competitive with most desktops.

I don't expect it to be cheaper than most PC desktops (as it isn't one) but it isn't even close, nor does it even make sense against iMacs which are in effect even more compact being merely oversize screens without a box or brick.

The consumer seems perfectly aware of this as they jump at the iMac and give the Mac mini a pass.

Apple however sells the unbelievable story that combined with existing monitor, keyboard and mouse it is cheap. Comparing like with like, a PC without all those as well is way cheaper. In practice there are also necessary compromises or adaptors to make the whole thing work so it all ends up being ugly, clumsy and therefore unattractive.

Quote:
What Apple needs to be comparable to the majority of other headless desktops out there is the mid-range tower that peopleespecially on this forumhave been asking for for years. The Mini in it's current form can never be that.

I, like many others, totally agree with you on the need for a headless desktop. Being Apple, maybe an ultra thin pizza box.

I have long called for a DVD sized Mac that fits consumer's entertainment components and does what the mini does. It becomes the stealth Mac that sneaks into a household's entertainment system using their flat panel TV for email, internet and multimedia replacing the PC they would normally buy.

Market it as the ePod or something similar and come at Mac-averse consumers from a completely different direction.
Reply
Reply
post #158 of 290
3/24/08 at 5:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by EagerDragon View Post

Not you I was talking to another guy (kolchak).
Your post was listed as one that was realistic.

So it was not about you, sorry.

Thanks. Just wanted to be sure.
Reply
Reply
post #159 of 290
3/24/08 at 5:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

My friend I think you are unaware of Murphy's law #23.

This states that the probability of any Apple thread morphing into a discussion of the xMac is directly proportional to its length.

The corollary of that is that any thread over 6 pages has a 100% certainty of digressing into an xMac thread.

And any thread about the mini by page 1.
Reply
Reply
post #160 of 290
3/24/08 at 6:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Inquiring minds want to know...

I was curious to know the price of a comparable Dell mini-tower. Unfortunately, that is not possible. The cheapest Dell starts at $350, but includes an 1.6GHz Celeron, They have a C2D option for $180 more, but that is 2.33Ghz (E6540) desktop version. The CPU in the Dell is $170 on Newegg, while the 2.0GHz (T7200) notebook version used in the Mini is $300.

Newegg also sells the default internal 3.5" 250GB HDD as low as $60 and the default 2.5" 120GB HDD as low as $70, so that is pretty much a wash. Dell also charges $120 more for the best version of Vista over Vista Basic (there is no XP offer), $40 for BT and $30 for 2xFW400, but Dell also offers many options that Apple doesn't and most won't need BT or FW. In Dell's favour, they did offer 2GB 667MHz RAM for half the price of Apple.

In the end, the Dell is a better deal on paper but you also get Vista and all the crapware that comes with these builds. I don't think the small difference in price is inconsequential compared to simplicity, which is one reason I think we are seeing so many switchers to OS X.

Vista is fine, heavy on the resources, but most PCs are coming with 2 or 3 GB anymore, it's just so cheap. Leopard is better overall, but Windows is still king in enterprise, and that's were I do most of my work.

The chief problem with Vista is the bloatware (which keeps the prices down, by subsidizing the cost) as it really does slow down startup processes. It took me about a half an hour to uninstall all the WildTangent trials and Google apps from my Toshiba (although now I just use my Vista disk to do a clean install, and it flys).

I actually like the new Dell Inspiron 1525s quite a bit, and the new e5600/5000 series is absolutely gorgeous.

http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/22/d...ptops-pack-gp/

Apple needs to take more risks/offer more options - the one size fits all just doesn't cut it. But will only go as far as Jobs' vision will carry it (good or bad).
Reply
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Future Apple Hardware
AppleInsider › Forums › Mac Hardware › Future Apple Hardware › Eating our words: Apple's Mac mini to rock on