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Eating our words: Apple's Mac mini to rock on - Page 3

post #81 of 290
3/21/08 at 9:32pm
Why X31000 and not X4500HD which is only 3 months away?
DisplayPort would be great. I think we leave the HDMI for Apple TV.
Bluetooth 2.1 + EDR??
Wireless 802.11N?
Super Drive as standard? ( About fxxking time )
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post #82 of 290
3/21/08 at 9:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak View Post

You can't stack anything on top of it without adversely affecting cooling, so even though it's not very thick, you lose any air rights over it.

Wrong.

You can't stack anything on top of it because of the pressure it would place on the optical drive. There are air vents located both on the back panel (output) and running along the bottom edge (input) of the entire enclosure. There are zero air vents on the top of the mini.
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post #83 of 290
3/21/08 at 9:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksec View Post

Why X31000 and not X4500HD which is only 3 months away?
DisplayPort would be great. I think we leave the HDMI for Apple TV.
Bluetooth 2.1 + EDR??
Wireless 802.11N?
Super Drive as standard? ( About fxxking time )

X4500 supports HDCP. While I don't expect a BD option in the Mini, I do think that Apple will have updated BR authoring apps for WWDC and new Cinema Displays and new iMacs with DisplayPort. If the iMac is updated by then and the Mini is not then I would think they are holding off for the x4500,

If the cheapest MB doesn't come with a SuperDrive can we really expect the cheapest Mac to come with one too? I'm gonna say no. Everything else seems logical though the MB didn't come with BT 2.1 for some reason.
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post #84 of 290
3/21/08 at 10:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRonin View Post

Wrong.

You can't stack anything on top of it because of the pressure it would place on the optical drive. There are air vents located both on the back panel (output) and running along the bottom edge (input) of the entire enclosure. There are zero air vents on the top of the mini.

I don't dispute the pressure affecting the optical drive, but the lack of air vents on top doesn't exclude it from dispersing heat. We know that heat rises and that the surface does disperse heat.

PS: I perused the latest Mac Mini manual, there is nothing to support what I just wrote.

• Important: Don’t place anything on top of your Mac mini. Objects placed on top may interfere with the optical drive or the AirPort or Bluetooth ® wireless signal.

• Important: Don’t place anything on top of your Mac mini. Objects placed on top may interfere with the optical drive or the AirPort or Bluetooth ® wireless signal.

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post #85 of 290
3/21/08 at 10:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

That isn't a bad idea. If they do take and don't add larger components there may be enough room for a power supply. I think the engineering team for this isn't simply putting in a newer CPU.

Considering that Apple could have done that in the first place, and didn't, I don't know why they would now, though I also agree with the idea.

Quote:
...If that long

It happened in the first page, before he even made that comment.\

Quote:
You may quit liking them, but Apple isn't stupid. While the market for PC desktops is lower than it was this time last year, Mac desktops are 50% higher. They are apparently appealing to their target audience.

I have to admit that I don't even understand his comment. He is going to quit liking them because Apple doesn't make another kind of computer? That makes no sense.

Quote:
I didn't say, replace with HDMI, I said replace with DisplayPort. HDMI and DVI are old news. However, APple is currently in the competing camp for UDI, but Samsung and Intel have left and I think the other members will too.

Apple doesn't support HDCP, so they would have to officially do that before HDMI became effective. Many new cards now support this, but I'm not sure if the cards offered by Apple, that support it in their PC versions, do.

The same for using an HDMI adapter. No HDCP, and it may be useless. Though Sony says they won't require HDCP for anther year, at least, I'm not sure if that's entirely true, and it's still needed to play content from cable and satellite in HD.

I no longer see any advantage to UDI or Displayport over HDMI. The 1.3 specs allow equal quality and future expansion.


Quote:
PS: Would you be okay with a comprise? For instance, the slghtly larger footprint of the AppleTV/Time Capsule that is slightly taller than the Mac Mini that allows for an internal power supply, 3.5" HDD, and a non-user-replaceable discrete GPU with 2x dual-link DVI so the case can have an "Apple aesthetic"? I just don't think Apple is going to out in a user-replaceable GPU into that machine.

I think it was odd when Apple released the ATv in a bigger case than the Mini. I expected the cases to match, so they could be stacked.

It would be nice if the new, slightly larger case was a harbinger of things to come, but I'm not so sure that it does mean anything for the Mini.

Apple designed the Mini for a reason.
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post #86 of 290
3/21/08 at 10:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kirasaw View Post

They need to make a Mini that can handle dual Monitors. I would gladly upgrade from my Blue & White that has a G4 upgrade to a Mini if I could use both monitors. I don't need a Mac Pro and already have 2 22" monitors so an iMac is not what I need either. Why can't they add a second monitor port ? I'd paid an extra hundred for that option.

You're missing the whole point to the Mini. It's a basic, simple machine designed for home, entry level business and educational users.
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post #87 of 290
3/21/08 at 10:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by filburt View Post

Current Mac mini has video out: DVI, HDMI (via 3rd party adapter or cable), VGA, S-video (via optional adapter), and composite video (via optional adapter).

No HDCP.

Quote:
Current Mac mini can accommodate two SO-DIMM modules. It is still needlessly tedious to crack it open to install RAM, however.

It takes two minutes to open the case. I've done it several times for people.
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post #88 of 290
3/21/08 at 10:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Considering that Apple could have done that in the first place, and didn't, I don't know why they would now, though I also agree with the idea.
...
I think it was odd when Apple released the ATv in a bigger case than the Mini. I expected the cases to match, so they could be stacked.

It would be nice if the new, slightly larger case was a harbinger of things to come, but I'm not so sure that it does mean anything for the Mini.

Apple designed the Mini for a reason.

They did design it back in the PPC days of yore so perhaps Apple does see a need to update the machine the way the iMac w/iSight case was originally a PPC machine but was redesigned just last year.

I too expected the cases to be the same, but they really aren't items that you'd put together.

So far this year, we've had a lot of goodies from Apple. I think we'll be seeing a lot from Cupertino as they try to head off the recession by bringing more items from R&D into the RDF.
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post #89 of 290
3/21/08 at 10:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksec View Post

Why X31000 and not X4500HD which is only 3 months away?
DisplayPort would be great. I think we leave the HDMI for Apple TV.
Bluetooth 2.1 + EDR??
Wireless 802.11N?
Super Drive as standard? ( About fxxking time )

It depends on when this updated machine comes out. I don't think the 4500 will be out in quantity in three months, but it's possible.

I'm not sold on Display port yet. HDMI 1.3 ports would be just dandy.
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post #90 of 290
3/21/08 at 10:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I don't dispute the pressure affecting the optical drive, but the lack of air vents on top doesn't exclude it from dispersing heat. We know that heat rises and that the surface does disperse heat.

PS: I perused the latest Mac Mini manual, there is nothing to support what I just wrote.

Important: Dont place anything on top of your Mac mini. Objects placed on top may interfere with the optical drive or the AirPort or Bluetooth ® wireless signal.

Important: Dont place anything on top of your Mac mini. Objects placed on top may interfere with the optical drive or the AirPort or Bluetooth ® wireless signal.


Why is there an assumption that something must be placed on TOP?

The many drive upgrades that have been out there with matching cases, go on the bottom.
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post #91 of 290
3/21/08 at 10:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

They did design it back in the PPC days of yore so perhaps Apple does see a need to update the machine the way the iMac w/iSight case was originally a PPC machine but was redesigned just last year.

I too expected the cases to be the same, but they really aren't items that you'd put together.

So far this year, we've had a lot of goodies from Apple. I think we'll be seeing a lot from Cupertino as they try to head off the recession by bringing more items from R&D into the RDF.

Using an ATv, a Mini, and some other Mac device in the same spot isn't an impossible situation.
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post #92 of 290
3/21/08 at 11:24pm
DisplayPort: http://www.datapro.net/techinfo/disp...h_VGA_DVI_HDMI

If they want to go with DisplayPort they better include a DP<->DVI-I adaptor & DP<->DVI-D with it.

Either way, GPU cards aren't DP enabled and since DP yet, which will require a complete new set of Display Lines.
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post #93 of 290
3/21/08 at 11:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

Either way, GPU cards aren't DP enabled and since DP yet, which will require a complete new set of Display Lines.

The X4500 GPU uses the GM45 chipset, which support DisplayPort. My reasoning is two fold for Apple including it later this year in their product line:
1) It's free, unlike HDMI.
2) It's open.
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post #94 of 290
3/22/08 at 1:44am
Long live to MacMini!
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post #95 of 290
3/22/08 at 2:32am
The MacMini G4 has been my home server for many years now - it just sits quietly under the TV serving up my web site and acting as a fileserver. It downloads my torrents and transcodes my video ready for my Apple TV. If ever Apple announced the end of the Mini without a suitable replacement model, I would be straight out buying a new one before they went out of stock.

What do I want in an updated model? Well ideally - exactly the same form factor plus:
  • Firewire 800
  • Super Drive
  • 250 GB HD
  • 2 GB RAM Minimum
  • 2.5 GHz Core 2 Duo
But I would accept a smaller HD and slower processor, to keep the cost down.
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post #96 of 290
3/22/08 at 5:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

I gonna go out on a limb and predict that this will morph into an xMac thread by page 3.

Too late. It happened a few posts before yours.
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post #97 of 290
3/22/08 at 5:25am
"...[L]imited adoption"?

Excuse me? Limited how? I've seen a ton of these Mac minis all over the place. They are a great deal. People who don't want to spend a lot of money trying a Mac for the first time often go for these. Microsoft's MBU has a whole roomful of these.

They may not sell as well as the MacBook, but it's not like no one is buying them.

I still have my G4 Mac Mini. It's good to know that the latest version will be updated in time for me to buy a new one.
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post #98 of 290
3/22/08 at 6:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoinks View Post

The MacMini G4 has been my home server for many years now - it just sits quietly under the TV serving up my web site and acting as a fileserver. It downloads my torrents and transcodes my video ready for my Apple TV. If ever Apple announced the end of the Mini without a suitable replacement model, I would be straight out buying a new one before they went out of stock.

Zoinks:

What you are doing is exactly what I want to do. Could you elaborate on how you automated the transcoding and prepping into AppleTV?

Thanks,

lb
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post #99 of 290
3/22/08 at 6:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoinks View Post

The MacMini G4 has been my home server for many years now - it just sits quietly under the TV serving up my web site and acting as a fileserver. It downloads my torrents and transcodes my video ready for my Apple TV. If ever Apple announced the end of the Mini without a suitable replacement model, I would be straight out buying a new one before they went out of stock.

What do I want in an updated model? Well ideally - exactly the same form factor plus:
  • Firewire 800
  • Super Drive
  • 250 GB HD
  • 2 GB RAM Minimum
  • 2.5 GHz Core 2 Duo
But I would accept a smaller HD and slower processor, to keep the cost down.

It looks like you can eliminate your AppleTV in favour of just having the Mac Mini. There are ways to make it act like the AppleTV and you'll be able to run your torrented AVIs without any transcoding. However, with v2.0 you won't get access to HD video rentals. You can plug in an Elgato or Migilia PVR device.

PS: You can't a 3.5" HDD in the space provided in the Mini.
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post #100 of 290
3/22/08 at 8:15am
I say stick a Blu-Ray SuperDrive in that sucker.
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post #101 of 290
3/22/08 at 8:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

The smartest thing they could do would be to dump the form factor and make the damn thing big enough to use desktop parts, specifically a 3.5 hard drive and a desktop optical drive. But they haven't ever been smart with this model.

At the very least, up the ram. And dual monitor support would be huge.

I have a mini and I like it, but I have to admit I'd rather see apple just dump the model in favor of a larger (and better...and probably cheaper as well) unit.

Yes!

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post #102 of 290
3/22/08 at 8:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirrel_Monkey View Post

I say stick a Blu-Ray SuperDrive in that sucker.

Let's not put the laser before the horse. We don't even have BD in Mac Pros or BR authorizing software yet.
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post #103 of 290
3/22/08 at 8:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Let's not put the laser before the horse. We don't even have BD in Mac Pros or BR authorizing software yet.

Absolutely.

The Mac Pro and MacBook Pro should get Blu-ray drives first. I doubt the mini or even the iMac will get one any time soon. The price of the drives needs to drop pretty precipitously before that'll ever happen. Although, I never bought a DVD until one came in my first G3 PowerBook.

I'd like a Blu-ray drive in my Mac for archiving. I'd stick with a dedicated media playing unit for my living room: Better video, better audio (multi-channel if you're into it) and upsampling from standard DVDs.


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post #104 of 290
3/22/08 at 9:39am
the Mini is and will continue to be essentially a re-packaged MacBook (absent screen and keyboard obviously), with updates following 6 to 9 months after the corresponding MacBook updates. the advantage of this is plain: the engineering needed is limited to simply fitting already-proven parts and systems inside the small box, and those parts can all be purchased in mid-manufacturing run at a lower price than when first used in the laptops. hence Apple makes a very good profit margin on each Mini.

and we all get a very good computer, but never state of the art or extra bells and whistles. so this time we will get the faster iBook 2.1/2.4 GHz processor chip, a better graphic chip, "n" wireless (which will really help with TimeMachine), and the usual increase in hard drive capacity. maybe Firewire 800, maybe not.

that's all to be expected. and they'll still charge way too much to add more RAM.
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post #105 of 290
3/22/08 at 9:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post

the Mini is and will continue to be essentially a re-packaged iBook (absent screen and keyboard obviously), with updates following 6 to 9 months after the corresponding iBook updates. the advantage of this is plain: the engineering needed is limited to simply fitting already-proven parts and systems inside the small box, and those parts can all be purchased in mid-manufacturing run at a lower price than when first used in the laptops. hence Apple makes a very good profit margin on each Mini.

and we all get a very good computer, but never state of the art or extra bells and whistles. so this time we will get the faster iBook 2.1/2.4 GHz processor chip, a better graphic chip, "n" wireless (which will really help with TimeMachine), and the usual increase in hard drive capacity. maybe Firewire 800, maybe not.

that's all to be expected. and they'll still charge way too much to add more RAM.

You make solid points. But you may to update iBook to MacBook.
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post #106 of 290
3/22/08 at 10:04am
yes, thanks, my senior moment. MacBook!
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post #107 of 290
3/22/08 at 11:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kirasaw View Post

They need to make a Mini that can handle dual Monitors. I would gladly upgrade from my Blue & White that has a G4 upgrade to a Mini if I could use both monitors. I don't need a Mac Pro and already have 2 22" monitors so an iMac is not what I need either. Why can't they add a second monitor port ? I'd paid an extra hundred for that option.

If you really would pay an extra hundred, this may be your answer:

Kensington Dual Monitor Adaptor: http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/080115/20080115006095.html?.v=1

“Macs are known for their ease of use and stunning user interface experience,” said Dennis Crespo, executive vice president of marketing and business development for DisplayLink. “By adding an additional monitor via a high-performance and simple USB-to-VGA display connection, the Mac experience can be fully realized.”

Mac users can also utilize the recently announced Kensington Dual Monitor Adapter to add up to four additional displays to their computer over a single USB 2.0 connection. This allows users to create a powerful desktop “command center” that provides immersive access to digital multimedia content at work or home. The adapter is unique in that it has both VGA and DVI connectors and can be used interchangeably with either type of display. This makes it ideal for traveling users who need to connect to a wide range of displays, or for organizations that want connectivity flexibility.

Availability and Pricing

The Dual Monitor Adapter will be available April 1, 2008. http://us.kensington.com/html/14499.html

The Kensington Dual Monitor Adapter will be $99 in the US and in Europe.
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post #108 of 290
3/22/08 at 11:57am
Very good news to hear.

As much as I buy X-Serves and 17 inch Macbook Pro's for business use, My mac mini still gets a workout being connected to a 50 inch Sony Plasma and paired up with a wireless keyboard and mouse. I don't even bother with the 20 inch LCD any more and transferred that to use in a server rack when doing onsite work.

The Mini serves as the household jukebox connected to the stereo and is the dominant internet surfing and personal email machine. I even use the MINI to remotely log in to the X-serves. Since my Sony Plasma has DVI port, HDMI is not a problem, but I would like the improved ability to rent and play movies through I-tunes (they just dont look very good on the Plasma coming out of the old Mini)

Hopefully, the new version of the Mini will have a more robust graphics card with both DVI and HDMI ports. 4 GB of RAM and a 250 GB drive since I tend to have a lot of programs open at one time and have to resort to having an external drive since I kept pegging out the 80 GB on board drive and 2 GB of RAM.
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post #109 of 290
3/22/08 at 12:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sequitur View Post

If you really would pay an extra hundred, this may be your answer:

Kensington Dual Monitor Adaptor: http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/080115/20080115006095.html?.v=1

Thanks for the tip I will look into it But I would still like to see dual monitor support in a Mini. I think if Apple where to make a Maxi Mini that would be a big seller. The Mac desktop line is a lot like what Steve Jobs said about Adobe Flash - there is a product in the middle missing. That product is a consumer desktop less than a Mac Pro but better than a Mini.
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post #110 of 290
3/22/08 at 12:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

You're missing the whole point to the Mini. It's a basic, simple machine designed for home, entry level business and educational users.

I understand that what I need is something better than a Mini but less than a Mac Pro
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post #111 of 290
3/22/08 at 1:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRonin View Post

Wrong.

You can't stack anything on top of it because of the pressure it would place on the optical drive. There are air vents located both on the back panel (output) and running along the bottom edge (input) of the entire enclosure. There are zero air vents on the top of the mini.

My mistake. I'm thinking of the old Cube. But the fact remains that all of my other points are valid. Are you just going to sit here and nitpick, or do you really dispute that using larger desktop components could lower the price of the mini compared with using notebook components, and probably increase performance in the process? Imagine the possibilities if Apple would just relent and install a Socket T on the motherboard instead of using Penryn or Nehalem. Ambitious users would then theoretically be able to install a Kentsfield, although there would be serious obstacles in the mini's power supply and cooling system. Do you have any reasons why a vertical mini wouldn't work? Are you saying that 4 USB ports are enough for most people as Apple seems to think, or that maybe it's better to ruin the "simple lines" of the mini system by adding in an external USB hub than just adding more ports to the mini? Are you saying that relatively expensive Firewire 800 enclosures are preferable to widely available and inexpensive eSATA enclosures? Or that most mini owners would even need Firewire 800 for any reason?
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post #112 of 290
3/22/08 at 2:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I don't dispute the pressure affecting the optical drive, but the lack of air vents on top doesn't exclude it from dispersing heat. We know that heat rises and that the surface does disperse heat.

Swing and a miss

The top is plastic, which happens to be an insulator, not a conductor

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post #113 of 290
3/22/08 at 2:42pm
The more I think about it, the more I'm starting to believe that a next-gen Mini will omit the optical entirely.

Of course, it's too early to do that, but that hasn't stopped Jobs before.

Rather than guess whether consumers want combos, superdrives or BR drives, I think Jobs will opt to separate the optical from the machine and provide the OS on a stick.

The lack of an optical drive at the top will dissipate rising heat much faster, reduce weight and Apple's component costs and push the Mini into a lower cost bracket. It also further entrenches the market for software and entertainment downloads.

Of course, this will infuriate and inconvenience a whole lot of people and be the single biggest talking point on the net for months.

I think that's what will make the idea appeal to Jobs the most.
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post #114 of 290
3/22/08 at 2:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak View Post

My mistake. I'm thinking of the old Cube. But the fact remains that all of my other points are valid. Are you just going to sit here and nitpick, or blah blah blah

I didn't question anything but your 'vents on top' comment
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post #115 of 290
3/22/08 at 2:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

The more I think about it, the more I'm starting to believe that a next-gen Mini will omit the optical entirely.

I don't think so, personally -- if for nothing else, because it would REQUIRE the inclusion of an external drive. The MacBook Air got away with it because of the software that lets you use your desktop's optical drive. But the reality is that software is still largely distributed on optical media, and some form of optical drive is required.
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post #116 of 290
3/22/08 at 4:05pm
I recently purchased a new Mac Mini. It's not my first, I also have a PowerBook and a G5.

I really like the Mac Mini, it's small and works very well. I do wish the highend model had a better graphics card so I could play EVE-Online.

That's the only change I would ask for.

I can always hook up external hard drives via firewire, so a bigger hard drive is not going to do much for me. Although a FW800 would be nice.
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post #117 of 290
3/22/08 at 4:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRonin View Post

I didn't question anything but your 'vents on top' comment

The problem is I never wrote anything about "vents on top." I just wrote that the mini could use the top surface for cooling, which doesn't necessarily require vents. I know the mini has no vents on top because I have a heavily upgraded one sitting on my desk, complete with T7200, 4GB RAM (although only 3GB are recognized) and a 7200rpm internal drive, . Of course, on further thought, the cooling fan works just fine since the top of the mini is cool even though I've had both cores pegged at 100% for the past ten hours.

You might want to do something about your haughty tone if you don't want to be seen as attacking an entire post. Just putting "Wrong" all by itself in a paragraph is the height of arrogance. Your blanket statement that plastic is an insulator is much the same. Plastic is not as good a thermal conductor as metal, but to just write that without taking into account the thickness and composition of the top panel would make any engineer cringe. Hold a plastic bottle full of hot water then tell me flat out that it's a insulator. We're not talking expanded polystyrene here.
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post #118 of 290
3/22/08 at 4:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post

the Mini is and will continue to be essentially a re-packaged MacBook (absent screen and keyboard obviously), with updates following 6 to 9 months after the corresponding MacBook updates. the advantage of this is plain: the engineering needed is limited to simply fitting already-proven parts and systems inside the small box, and those parts can all be purchased in mid-manufacturing run at a lower price than when first used in the laptops. hence Apple makes a very good profit margin on each Mini.

That would make sense if Apple was still using custom parts. The problem is that Apple is now using the same, standard components that everybody else uses. It takes no more engineering to use a desktop CPU than a mobile CPU. Same for DIMMs as opposed to SO-DIMMs and 3.5" drives vs. 2.5". It's more likely that they continue to use those parts simply because Steve dictates small and quiet (low heat with a small fan) are marketing attractions. But many people other than Steve believe that the attraction of small size has lost its novelty in the years since the mini was introduced, and a better price/performance ratio would be a much better attraction for potential switchers. An awful lot of people still buy into the "Macs are overpriced" argument and it's tough to convince them otherwise when a $400 Dell desktop (which comes with an LCD, keyboard and mouse) has better specs than a $600 mini.
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post #119 of 290
3/22/08 at 5:53pm
My recollection from the mini first came out was people could and did stack minis. The real issue (again, if I recall correctly) was that they need to be exposed on the top for good wireless reception and transmission.
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post #120 of 290
3/22/08 at 5:54pm
At this rate the Mac Mini is going to cost 1700.

You love to dream of a mini with capabilities no other Mac has.

I guess it no longer will be an entry level Mac if they were to add all of that.

Too funny.
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