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BofA sees 3G iPhone build in May, predictions "too conservative" - Page 2

post #41 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by markoh View Post

I own both the iPhone and N95, both of which are in the same price range. I'd give away my iPhone any day over the N95. There really isn't anything in the iPhone that my Nokia can't do,
but tons of things in the N95 that the iPhone doesn't have. For starters, slow 2.5G connection doesn't really "stimulate and invite internet usage".

You got me there--I don't own either.
That is why I had to couch my post with "by most accounts" and "most Nokia phones." I certainly cannot compare models I do not own!

Still, hasn't there been a raft of reports showing that the iPhone's browser usage is disproportionately high for its installed base? Why would that be if it is not making people want to use it more than other phones?

Again, I don't really have a dog in this fight, so I have to go by what others say...
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post #42 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bageljoey View Post

You got me there--I don't own either.
That is why I had to couch my post with "by most accounts" and "most Nokia phones." I certainly cannot compare models I do not own!

Still, hasn't there been a raft of reports showing that the iPhone's browser usage is disproportionately high for its installed base? Why would that be if it is not making people want to use it more than other phones?

Again, I don't really have a dog in this fight, so I have to go by what others say...

Using safari on the iPhone is definitely closer to desktop experience than any other cell phone
I've seen. This also means people are hitting the desktop-versions of web sites, downloading much more content than most other phones that just download the bare-bones mobile versions. The increased usage is probably the combination of these two factors.

If I used the phone just for surfing the net, iPhone would be the best option out there, especially after the 3G version becomes available. However, right now the N95 offers much more for the same money, e.g. 3G, 5 megapixel camera, GPS w/ navigation and it's unlocked so I can use it overseas.
post #43 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by aplnub View Post

I think 3G is just a nice buzz word and warm feeling people experience. On a phone, 3G is just not faster than what we have now on the iPhone to warrant flood gates opening.

I agree that 3G is just a buzz word with a horrible logo but that is what the Asian market sees as the standard for this type of phone. I wish it were different but it isn't. A 3G iPhone will sell well but as it is now it is just a novelty phone/fashion item.

Also most 3G Phones sold cannot use all their features as these are "switched on" by the carrier for an additional price. I have had my 3G phone for over a year but I cannot surf the web, video call or send multimedia messages. If Apple can have all the features available to use out of the box then it will be a very attractive purchase.
post #44 of 66
Quote:
There really isn't anything in the iPhone that my Nokia can't do, but tons of things in the N95 that the iPhone doesn't have. For starters, slow 2.5G connection doesn't really "stimulate and invite internet usage".

The iPhone isn't really in the game of attempting to do something that other phones cannot do. The point of the iPhone is to provide a great user experience. Something that few heavy feature laden phones do consistently.

As for your comment about slow 2.5G connection. Real world numbers show people using the internet on the iPhone far more than any other mobile device.
post #45 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

As for your comment about slow 2.5G connection. Real world numbers show people using the internet on the iPhone far more than any other mobile device.

Real world numbers outside the US show lackluster demand for the iPhone, mainly attributed to slow connection speed (and partially to the fact it's locked).
post #46 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


Indeed, I have seen guesstimates (can't find the cites now) that Apple makes $3/month on its ATT contracts (perhaps a little higher in Europe).

Well it is difficult to argue with mystery guesstimates, although Gene Munster thinks it is $15/month.
post #47 of 66
Quote:
Real world numbers outside the US show lackluster demand for the iPhone, mainly attributed to slow connection speed (and partially to the fact it's locked).

Yeah the iPhone has such lackluster demand that it was found being sold and used in nearly every country on the planet despite the fact that it was only officially offered and supported in four countries.
post #48 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Yeah the iPhone has such lackluster demand that it was found being sold and used in nearly every country on the planet despite the fact that it was only officially offered and supported in four countries.

That has nothing to do with the fact that they missed sales goals (that they had set for themselves) in every officially supported country except the US, largely due to slow speed, price and lock-in. Finding products in countries where they are not officially sold (or are even banned) is hardly specific to the iPhone.
post #49 of 66
Quote:
That has nothing to do with the fact that they missed sales goals (that they had set for themselves) in every officially supported country except the US, largely due to slow speed, price and lock-in. Finding products in countries where they are not officially sold (or are even banned) is hardly specific to the iPhone.

Apple didn't set sales goals the carriers did. The carrier sales can only reflect the people who use the iPhone on their service and does not account for the number of unlocked phones in use.
post #50 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by d.mantic View Post

I think 3G will be faster, but I agree with many here that it's not necessarily such a blow out as some of the theoretical bandwidth numbers imply. Basically, 3G does have much faster bandwidth numbers, but you also have to take into account latency, error rates, and CPU load. Edge may well have an advantage in all of these categories, and that helps to narrow the big bandwidth lead that 3G has. See here.


That is unintentionally hilarious. Not the article itself, but rather the 50 or so comments left on it, the majority of which tear the article author a new one for apparently not knowing what he's talking about.

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post #51 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Apple didn't set sales goals the carriers did. The carrier sales can only reflect the people who use the iPhone on their service and does not account for the number of unlocked phones in use.


Some things are settled issues, Teno. The iPhone ISN'T doing that well in Europe. \

If you wish to feel differently on that particular issue, go ahead, but you'd be the only one I know of.


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post #52 of 66
Quote:
Some things are settled issues, Teno. The iPhone ISN'T doing that well in Europe.

If you wish to feel differently on that particular issue, go ahead, but you'd be the only one I know of.

Carrier sales are only a narrow metric. They can only tell you the number of people using the iPhone on that one carrier. They cannot tell you the number of people using unlocked iPhones on other carriers. Or the number of iPhone users in other countries.
post #53 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Carrier sales are only a narrow metric. They can only tell you the number of people using the iPhone on that one carrier. They cannot tell you the number of people using unlocked iPhones on other carriers. Or the number of iPhone users in other countries.


Teno, hang it up. Everybody has unlocked phones running around... there's unlocked Euro smartphones in the US. Doesn't mean they're covertly super-popular here. \

Even if you don't want to hear it, I'm sure Apple groks that they're not doing too well in Europe. I'm just curious as to what they're going to do to address it, beyond just adding 3G.


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post #54 of 66
I still say that the reason the iPhone appears to take a large share of mobile internet usage is because all of the official iPhone plans come with a data bundle included. My guess is that if every N95 sold on contract came with a data plan bundled as standard, the S60 browser would easily be the most used mobile browser out there.
post #55 of 66
I still say that the reason the iPhone appears to take a large share of mobile internet usage is because all of the official iPhone plans come with a data bundle included. My guess is that if every N95 sold on contract came with a data plan bundled as standard, the S60 browser would easily be the most used mobile browser out there.
post #56 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrochester View Post

I still say that the reason the iPhone appears to take a large share of mobile internet usage is because all of the official iPhone plans come with a data bundle included. My guess is that if every N95 sold on contract came with a data plan bundled as standard, the S60 browser would easily be the most used mobile browser out there.

Right
post #57 of 66
Apple with just it's 1st phone has made a lot of noise. Even with all the shortcomings that have been talked about so much they have managed to get attention of the world. The iphone with it's relatively small marketshare is being used on the internet like no other phone, studies show people love using their iphone, they love using the multimedia capabilities of the phone, this is Apple's first phone, all they needed to do was to get the attention of the industry and they sure did. They are now in the right position, they will improve the iphone, expand the lineup. Apple may not sell 400 million phones in a year as Nokia but they will be a big name in the the industry and the iphone will be the phone that every other is compared to.
post #58 of 66
Quote:
Teno, hang it up. Everybody has unlocked phones running around... there's unlocked Euro smartphones in the US. Doesn't mean they're covertly super-popular here.

My point is we don't know how many unlocked iPhones are in Europe. O2 and Orange sales numbers certainly won't reflect that.

Quote:
I still say that the reason the iPhone appears to take a large share of mobile internet usage is because all of the official iPhone plans come with a data bundle included. My guess is that if every N95 sold on contract came with a data plan bundled as standard, the S60 browser would easily be the most used mobile browser out there.

Actually the S60 is the mostly widely used browser in the world. Because their are millions more phones with it.

Part of the reason data use on the iPhone is so high is because it comes with an unlimited data. But you cannot ignore how well Apple engineered the device to present the web.
post #59 of 66
Quote:
Part of the reason data use on the iPhone is so high is because it comes with an unlimited data. But you cannot ignore how well Apple engineered the device to present the web.

Maybe, but it's impossible to say whether people go out and buy the iPhone for it's web experience, or whether that is just an incidental extra that your purchase happens to include. I think it's important to distinguish this because one way makes iPhone Safari the most popular browser by choice, the other makes it the most popular by consequence. In all, it'll be impossible to tell unless; other phones always come bundled with a data package, or, the data package on the iPhone is an optional extra.
post #60 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

My point is we don't know how many unlocked iPhones are in Europe. O2 and Orange sales numbers certainly won't reflect that.




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post #61 of 66
Quote:
Maybe, but it's impossible to say whether people go out and buy the iPhone for it's web experience, or whether that is just an incidental extra that your purchase happens to include. I think it's important to distinguish this because one way makes iPhone Safari the most popular browser by choice, the other makes it the most popular by consequence. In all, it'll be impossible to tell unless; other phones always come bundled with a data package, or, the data package on the iPhone is an optional extra.

You are not looking the at the whole approach Apple is bringing to mobile web development. The unlimited data package is apart of it but not the entire story. Mobile Safari marketshare would not be so high if it were only because of unlimited data.

Using a desktop browser on a mobile device that renders full HTML the same as the desktop version. Something that no other mobile browser yet does. Its very likely by the time Apple releases iPhone 2.0 mobile Safari will fully support HTML 5. Something that no other mobile web browser is likely to do.

Apple provided an environment to develop web based services tailored for the mobile device. Something that no other mobile software/hardware manufacturer has ever provided. With these tools there are now over 1,300 web based services built for the iPhone. Along with icons for bookmarking any website on the mobile device home screen. At the introduction of the SDK Apple said they will offer more features for web based services. Because Apple pushes open web standards any mobile device that can render full HTML can take advantage of these services.

All of this is good as it pushes everyone: Nokia, Mircosoft, web software developers to all improve the mobile web experience.
post #62 of 66
Quote:
Using a desktop browser on a mobile device that renders full HTML the same as the desktop version. Something that no other mobile browser yet does. Its very likely by the time Apple releases iPhone 2.0 mobile Safari will fully support HTML 5. Something that no other mobile web browser is likely to do.

I don't get why people keep saying this. Apple is far from the first to support desktop websites on a mobile device, and far from being the only one to do so. Nokia's web browser has been able to render desktop websites for nearly 2 years now. I've used the browser everyday for over a year now, and I have no issue with browsing websites - they all show exactly as they would do on my PC.
post #63 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrochester View Post

I don't get why people keep saying this. Apple is far from the first to support desktop websites on a mobile device, and far from being the only one to do so. Nokia's web browser has been able to render desktop websites for nearly 2 years now. I've used the browser everyday for over a year now, and I have no issue with browsing websites - they all show exactly as they would do on my PC.

You are right S60 is the first to use a desktop engine in a mobile device. But S60 does not have its lineage directly from a desktop browser. Safari has had a much more robust development.
post #64 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

You are not looking the at the whole approach Apple is bringing to mobile web development. The unlimited data package is apart of it but not the entire story. Mobile Safari marketshare would not be so high if it were only because of unlimited data.

Using a desktop browser on a mobile device that renders full HTML the same as the desktop version. Something that no other mobile browser yet does. Its very likely by the time Apple releases iPhone 2.0 mobile Safari will fully support HTML 5. Something that no other mobile web browser is likely to do.

Apple provided an environment to develop web based services tailored for the mobile device. Something that no other mobile software/hardware manufacturer has ever provided. With these tools there are now over 1,300 web based services built for the iPhone. Along with icons for bookmarking any website on the mobile device home screen. At the introduction of the SDK Apple said they will offer more features for web based services. Because Apple pushes open web standards any mobile device that can render full HTML can take advantage of these services.

All of this is good as it pushes everyone: Nokia, Mircosoft, web software developers to all improve the mobile web experience.

Other AT&T subscribers who are paying the $20 data plan on other cell phones with "inferior" web browsers have the "option" to hack around the proxy settings to get tethering.
post #65 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

Other AT&T subscribers who are paying the $20 data plan on other cell phones with "inferior" web browsers have the "option" to hack around the proxy settings to get tethering.

Other AT&T susnscribers are paying $40 for unlimted data. Only the iPhone gets $20 unlimited data.
post #66 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Other AT&T susnscribers are paying $40 for unlimted data. Only the iPhone gets $20 unlimited data.

I am not talking about smartphone plans. I am talking about just your normal wap plans that people are hacking to get tethering.

If people use a "inferior" phone with "inferior" web-browsers with a $20 wap plan --- and tethers with a laptop --- then of course it wouldn't show up in the statistics.
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