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There is no G5 - Page 7

post #241 of 457
[quote]
KidRed,

When the Republicans wanted to reform welfare a few years back, liberals spewed forth dire predictions of millions of people starving in the streets, etc.

Never happened.

<hr></blockquote>

Never happened, or the media simply is not reporting it? Read, the corporate media doesn't choose to cover the effects of welfare reform, because it would take too much effort, and doesn't carry a sensationalist impact that a good sex story does.

Not that right wingers would even care IF people were starving in the streets, as long as enough police were available to bust up riots and beat the crap out of protesters.

And unless the drugs are catching up to me, I could swear that welfare reform was a bipartisan effort, signed into law by Clinton. Odd that you use it as an example of a right wing triumph.

But I must agree, conservative or liberal, in the political sense, does not always adhere to dictionary definitions. Life is not so simple, issues are never so simple...it's childish idealism to think otherwise. Of course each party looks out for their own interests..if they didn't then they would be replaced by a party that did understand its interests. Don't blame the individuals, blame the system..a system that requires big money to win, and where big money comes from corporate interests, and in the end a government by the corporations, for the corporations, and of the corporations. Empowered by a public too stupid to think for themselves, who vote for whoever spends the most money in an election (ok, a generalization, but a damn good one). But then, when the same corporations that own and run the government are the ones spoon-feeding "news" to the public, well. ...I think that a democracy is only as good as the quality of the information that the voting public has to base their decisions upon.
post #242 of 457
Just saw this-
[quote]The G5 being on hold is an issue with Motorola. The processors are not standing by, ready to go. The development was halted at Motorola recently. A lot of the reasons are financial: cost to develop, cost to integrate, cost of goods, etc. vs. demand / need for a 64-bit processor. My guess is that the development will continue later this year and probably take another 6 months to a year to finish and integrate. That's just a guess. The other possibility is that IBM has something better. A lot of folks thought the iMac was going to be the IBM G3 Sahara and that didn't happen. I think Motorola is still the vendor of favor. <hr></blockquote>

So, not sure what to think, Moto just sitting on the G5s, while working on the Apollos? If true, maybe Apple ahs gone or will go to IBM to fab?
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post #243 of 457
[quote]Originally posted by KidRed:
<strong>Just saw this-


So, not sure what to think, Moto just sitting on the G5s, while working on the Apollos? If true, maybe Apple ahs gone or will go to IBM to fab?</strong><hr></blockquote>

or perhaps apple will give motorola the money to continue production of the G5 ...
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post #244 of 457
[quote]Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg:
<strong>

Never happened, or the media simply is not reporting it? Read, the corporate media doesn't choose to cover the effects of welfare reform, because it would take too much effort, and doesn't carry a sensationalist impact that a good sex story does.

Not that right wingers would even care IF people were starving in the streets, as long as enough police were available to bust up riots and beat the crap out of protesters.

And unless the drugs are catching up to me, I could swear that welfare reform was a bipartisan effort, signed into law by Clinton. Odd that you use it as an example of a right wing triumph.

But I must agree, conservative or liberal, in the political sense, does not always adhere to dictionary definitions. Life is not so simple, issues are never so simple...it's childish idealism to think otherwise. Of course each party looks out for their own interests..if they didn't then they would be replaced by a party that did understand its interests. Don't blame the individuals, blame the system..a system that requires big money to win, and where big money comes from corporate interests, and in the end a government by the corporations, for the corporations, and of the corporations. Empowered by a public too stupid to think for themselves, who vote for whoever spends the most money in an election (ok, a generalization, but a damn good one). But then, when the same corporations that own and run the government are the ones spoon-feeding "news" to the public, well. ...I think that a democracy is only as good as the quality of the information that the voting public has to base their decisions upon.</strong><hr></blockquote>


Wow, JD, I know this isn't the thread for this, and I usually I think you have some good things to say, but on this point I just disagree.

Corportate Media? Yes, but they sure as hell are NOT conservatives! The liberal bias in the media is well documented and proven. It has been proven that interviews with conservatives are, on average, edited THREE times more than their liberal counterparts. Dan Rather and Peter Jennings, as well as Tom Brokaw are all outspoken liberals. There are VERY few balanced networks.

The only network that I have seen that usually dos not have a liberal bias is Fox News Channel. They even lean towards conservative at times.

Bipartisan Effort? BWWWHAHAHAH. That is ridiculous. Republicans , not Democrats wanted welfare reform. Yes, Clinton signed it, But that doesn't mean he actually supported it. He was a "waffler". He did what the polls said. Period.

[quote] Not that right wingers would even care IF people were starving in the streets, as long as enough police were available to bust up riots and beat the crap out of protesters. <hr></blockquote>

---Seriously now. That is VERY harsh. And the fact that you believe that right wing/conservative people/politicians are like this is proof of the criminal liberal media's influence on the population of this nation.

Our Government is a bloated, corrupt institution. As I have said before, if you add up the taxes that are paid in this nation by the working class and even "lower upper class" (say those that earn up to 200,000 year), it comes to 50-60% of your income. What??? You say that sounds absurdly high? Well:

40% goes to Federal Income and SS tax.

In PA, where I live, the state tax is 2.5%

Local Tax: 1% of my income for me.

Gas Tax=50% of total purchase price. Assuming a two car family spends 1200/year on gas, that means about 1-2% of income goes to this tax. ($30-60,000 per year income assumed)

This brings us to 44.5% without considering: Luxury Tax, Ciggarette Tax, Licensing Fees (drivers license, fishing hunting, boating.....they are all really just another way of taxing).

Don't forget about property taxes, assuming my income (between 30-60,000 let's just say), the property taxes on my house I'm buying will be over 5% of my INCOME!!!!

That brings us to 49.5%. Oh, and don't forget your phone, cable and internet bills. They not only get taxed, they included things like "federal access fees" and the like, which are taxes intended to pay for things like innner city internet connections and the like. Oh, and did I mention SALES TAX? That, in my state, is 6% of almost everything you spend! Assuming most Americans spend more than 80% of their incomes (and that is probably a LOW figure), we can tack on another 4% or so.

hmmm...by my math, that equals 53.5%. That is without even really trying to think of other things. Imagine, if you will, what that number actually is.

So, one can plainly see that our government is appoaching "confiscation through taxation". It is unreasonable.

I choose to support the party that has historically been in favor of large tax cuts across the board. And don't give me any of that "only for the rich bullshit", look at your check in 2002....I got a $50/check raise in pay becauseof the most recent cut and and I am middle income.

Are they all corrupt? Yep. But, given the choices we have, my choice is clear.
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post #245 of 457
People, let us not forget that Macworld spoke to one of Motorola's employees back in November.

Paul Clark confirmed that the G4 would top out at around 1 Ghz and that the G5 was progressing 'well'. I don't know where all the rumours of 1.4 Ghz G4's have come from, but it sounds unlikely. I have faith in Apple announcing the G5 soon (it certainly won't be announced by Motorola). Especially with the move to such high speed G4s in the iMac.
post #246 of 457
Shadow Knight
"The MPC8540 is available for sale right now."

Also posted in that thread:
"BadAndy
That's great that it is shipping and available now. "

"I just went to the where to buy section, but alas not a single supplier;
. Arrow
. Avnet
. DigiKey
. Future
. Newark
. Richardson

listed the MPC8540. Just thought I'd buy one and build my own computer "

"But since they are available I would expect Apple's version should be ready by MWNY"

"Oh, I just thought that a press release on 10/17/2001 wasn't that old. "

"I'm really confused now.
I went to the 1st Quarter 2002 selector guide(a link to it is at the bottom of the fact sheet you linked to) and the MPC8540 isn't listed. " :confused:


If any one can confirm that the MPC8540 is available, like a current product catalog that lists it, please post a link. This would be fantastic news, meaning an Apple version would almost be a certainty by MWNY. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
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post #247 of 457
The last time I checked Motorla's web site where they list press releases, the MPC8540 was scheduled to be sampled around summertime of this year.

- Mark
post #248 of 457
[quote]Originally posted by TJM:
<strong> However, SdC, Moogs, and a couple others seem so thoroughly intent on pissing on everyone's fun that it's just not interesting anymore. I have better things to do with my time.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Dude you *need* to get out more if that's your attitude. I'm not pissing on anyone. If you'd read my damn comments with any attention you'd realize I have more than once said things to the effect "I'm not real sure what's next, but I don't have much faith in Motorola". How is that pissing on anyone other than Motorola??

Further the person I've been "arguing" with the most - Kidred - isn't even "mad" about what I've been posting, and in fact it's been a pretty good-natured debate ( you know, more joking around than pissing contest?).

So do get yourself a prescription for 5mg of Vallium and just RELAX.


:eek:
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post #249 of 457
Thread Starter 
I'm not pissing on anyone.

Urine is in the eye of the beholder.

SdC
My signature irritates people. However, my cat can still jump a watermelon, and the Apollo is the next chip coming to the Powermac line. Although, at this point, I'd believe that Cyrix is the next...
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My signature irritates people. However, my cat can still jump a watermelon, and the Apollo is the next chip coming to the Powermac line. Although, at this point, I'd believe that Cyrix is the next...
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post #250 of 457
sc_markt
"The last time I checked Motorla's web site where they list press releases, the MPC8540 was scheduled to be sampled around summertime of this year."

I know, I've been posting the link to that 10/17/01 press release virtually since the day it appeared.

<a href="http://www.motorola.com/mediacenter/news/detail/0,1958,568_322_23,00.html" target="_blank">http://www.motorola.com/mediacenter/news/detail/0,1958,568_32 2_23,00.html</a>

It repeatedly states the MPC8540 to be the first of the series, the foundation to the next generation, etc., etc. and still people insist that the G5 for Apple is right around the corner. I hope they're right, but ....well......it just doesn't appear possible.

Granted the spec sheet lists where to buy. I checked all the links shortly after the spec sheet appeared, several weeks ago and again a few days ago. NONE of the suppliers listed the MPC8540 and on top of that ,Motorola's own cross reference list for all available semiconductors for the 1st quarter of 2002 does not list the MPC8540(if it were available now wouldn't it be on the list.) Check it out, maybe I missed it.

updated 1/1/02
<a href="http://e-www.motorola.com/brdata/PDFDB/docs/SG1000CR.pdf" target="_blank">http://e-www.motorola.com/brdata/PDFDB/docs/SG1000CR.pdf</a>

I'll say it again:
"If any one can confirm that the MPC8540 is available, like a current product catalog that lists it, please post a link. This would be fantastic news, meaning an Apple version would almost be a certainty by MWNY. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" /> "

[ 01-17-2002: Message edited by: rickag ]</p>
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post #251 of 457
Certainly a very interesting quote and certainly basis for people to stop using "It hasn't even been shown yet" as any evidence. The G5 desktop chip my well be on course to be released before the MPC8540.

Either way it certainly explains Motorola's silence.

[quote] Motorola Semiconductor Products representative Jeff Gorin told NewsFactor: "Because of our close working relationship with Apple, we are not able to discuss future plans for processors that may potentially end up in Apple products. That could be tantamount to pre-announcing future Apple product offerings." Gorin also referred to the fact that Apple now uses the G4 in a consumer product offering. <hr></blockquote>

Whole article is here:

<a href="http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nf/20020117/tc/15852_1.html" target="_blank">Article</a>
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post #252 of 457
[quote]Originally posted by Telomar:
<strong>Certainly a very interesting quote and certainly basis for people to stop using "It hasn't even been shown yet" as any evidence. The G5 desktop chip my well be on course to be released before the MPC8540.

Either way it certainly explains Motorola's silence.</strong><hr></blockquote>

A very interesting article. It's strange to see this minutiae over which we obsess so much actually showing up in a (sort-of) mainstream news outlet.

The only thing wrong with the "it could just be a big secret" theory is that Motorola did announce the Apollo prior to its (pending) introduction into new Macs. It's not completely implausible that they're making an exception with the G5: this is a whole new architecture, not just a modification to an existing one, so maybe Apple wants extra secrecy for that reason. Not sure if I actually believe that, but I could be persuaded.
post #253 of 457
The guy who wrote that article clearly has been gleaning all sorts of good info from AI forums!
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post #254 of 457
I should point out he actually makes a couple errors in the article but that isn't the point

As for the Apollo it isn't really any sort of new chip it is just more of the same for the most part.

Besides we have no proof it is actually aimed at PowerMacs in any way. It's existence doesn't really give us any true idea of where it will go. Had they announced a G5 chip though it would have meant Apple was definitely about to release new PowerMacs.

That said Apollos may still come to PowerMacs but they are very different to the release of a completely new chip.

Anyway it gives you some more stuff to speculate on so go nuts

[ 01-17-2002: Message edited by: Telomar ]</p>
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post #255 of 457
After reading this extremely long thread. I guess I'm not as convinced as I once was that the timing for both the Apollo and the G5 has just been poor for Apple. I had suspected that the decision on which chip to use for the next desktops was hinging on either not using Apollo and jumping right to the G5 or letting the G5 sit it out for another generation judging from reports I had seen. Now I'm not so sure.

As far as saying that Moto will never put out a chip at 3Mhz goes. You may be right but not for the reasons you think. Though the announcement of Moto's Gallium Arsenide on silicon process didn't get a whole lot of press, what I did see would suggest that they may jump from 2Ghz up to 20 in short order. Chip manufacturers have known for a long time that if they could use GA on Silicon it would reap huge benifits but now that a process for doing it is a reality we may see a huge jump in speed.

Unlike some of the recent chip advances already being used like SOI and copper connections this would be useful for analog and digital electronics. As I understand it the manufacturing process is being worked out and the timetable for first product in the stories I was was 2003. I can't imagine Apple not wanting to jump on this. It's all a matter of how long it takes to get it going.

Although Motorola has said it will license the technology, it seems as though Intel and to an extent AMD never seem to be interested in these technologies.

Here's hoping we see Steve demonstrate a 20Ghz desktop Mac in a speed test with a 3Ghz Pentium by the end of 2003. Hopefully I'm not dreaming too much.
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post #256 of 457
This would certainly explain some of those rumors about the test machines running 10 to 20 times faster than current macs. It also would have lived up to the pre-MacWorld hype.

But...
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post #257 of 457
[quote]Originally posted by CCR65:
<strong>After reading this extremely long thread. I guess I'm not as convinced as I once was that the timing for both the Apollo and the G5 has just been poor for Apple. I had suspected that the decision on which chip to use for the next desktops was hinging on either not using Apollo and jumping right to the G5 or letting the G5 sit it out for another generation judging from reports I had seen. Now I'm not so sure.

As far as saying that Moto will never put out a chip at 3Mhz goes. You may be right but not for the reasons you think. Though the announcement of Moto's Gallium Arsenide on silicon process didn't get a whole lot of press, what I did see would suggest that they may jump from 2Ghz up to 20 in short order. Chip manufacturers have known for a long time that if they could use GA on Silicon it would reap huge benifits but now that a process for doing it is a reality we may see a huge jump in speed.

Unlike some of the recent chip advances already being used like SOI and copper connections this would be useful for analog and digital electronics. As I understand it the manufacturing process is being worked out and the timetable for first product in the stories I was was 2003. I can't imagine Apple not wanting to jump on this. It's all a matter of how long it takes to get it going.

Although Motorola has said it will license the technology, it seems as though Intel and to an extent AMD never seem to be interested in these technologies.

Here's hoping we see Steve demonstrate a 20Ghz desktop Mac in a speed test with a 3Ghz Pentium by the end of 2003. Hopefully I'm not dreaming too much.</strong><hr></blockquote>

The thing about GaAs and other III-V semiconductors is that they are not Silicon. They can be used to make very fast transistors, but not MOS devices, certainly not CMOS, hence no low power digital circuits. They can be used to make memory, but frankly, they are'nt very good at that either. They can make very fast logic circuits, but at a considerable cost in static power draw.

A very few sections of a processor might incorporate III-V circuits, where speed is paramount, but the major benefit will be in being able to use the optical properties of direct-bandgap semiconductors to build LEDs and lasers for comms. (inter or intra-chip) purposes.

Don't get me wrong, this is marvelous advance in process technology for III-Vs, but it is not going to lead immediately to much faster processors.

Michael
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post #258 of 457
Regarding the G5 existing or not or when its going to be released, I say if it exists and is ready, then Apple should release it asap. The reason is that the longer they wait to release it, the more time AMD and Intel has to work on increasing the clock speeds of their chips. Also, both companies are working hard right now on new chips with improved architectures. If the G5 gets released next year and its around the same time as a new improved Intel or AMD chip release, there may not be much difference in performace between a G5 and a new AMD or Intel chip. As such, there would not be much of a compelling reason for a wintel user to switch to a mac.

It seems to me if you have a kick a$$ chip that could make your computer the most powerful personal computer ever built so far, release it asap. By doing so, you'll be the king of the hill longer and have a longer time for wintel users to comteplate switching over to a mac.


- Mark
post #259 of 457
[quote] Gorin also referred to the fact that Apple now uses the G4 in a consumer product offering. <hr></blockquote>

The ability of the people on this forum to get sidetracked into irrelevant discussions is astounding.

OK, a reporter asks a Motorola semiconductor representative about the G5 and he basically says, "Well, we don't announce new stuff because it'd piss Apple off. Oh, and did you realise their consumer computers have G4s now?"

I mean, could it be any more abvious what this guy is trying to hint at?

The G5 is here people and it will ship in an Apple product before the end of this year. What remains to be seen is whether Apple will give the G4 a final push with Apollo before the G5 arrives, or whether we'll see 64 bit PowerMacs in MacWorld TY
post #260 of 457
I'm pretty sure that the MPC8540 is not available yet. I'm going to put in a few calls and see what I can find out, might not get a response until next week if it's not available though.
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post #261 of 457
[quote]Originally posted by CCR65:
<strong>
Although Motorola has said it will license the technology, it seems as though Intel and to an extent AMD never seem to be interested in these technologies.
</strong><hr></blockquote>


Intel has been talking up its own 20+ GHz technologies. I don't think Intel would ever license its core process technology from another company, that would be exposing itself far too much.
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post #262 of 457
Okay, I know the mods didn't want politics in future hardware, but what about comedy?

[quote]
The only network that I have seen that usually dos not have a liberal bias is Fox News Channel. They even lean towards conservative at times.
<hr></blockquote>

That (bold) has to be one of the funniest things I've read in awhile. Faux News Network, home of the Chandra Levy 24 hour special report, LEANING to the right. That is absolutely priceless.

Let's take a look at their hosts shall we,
"Your World with Neil Cavuto" - Conservative Financial Pundit

"The Big Story with John Gibson" - Very Conservative

"Special Report with Brit Hume" - Super Conservative

"Fox Report with Shepard Smith" - Conservative, but closer to moderate than the others

"The O'Reilly Factor" - This dolt is so conservative it's not even funny. The big "spin" is that he claims he's not.

"Hannity & Colmes" - Hannity, Very Conservative. Colmes - Very Liberal, but an idiot.

"War on Terror: The Hunt for the Killers" - I think this is the show with a bunch of women with so much makeup on it looks like they apply it with a trowel. Not even close to moderate.
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post #263 of 457
OK, now that we know you hate conservatives can we get back to discussing the G5?

Embrace the future people. Embrace the G5.
post #264 of 457
Has any one found out if the MPC8540 is available or not?

It appears that MOSR, The Register, Archintosh, etc. really blew it. At one point or another, I believe each were saying that the G5 was in or close to production, if not available for MWSF the Apollo G4 would be used in the towers.

Bah, I refuse to believe these rumor sites.
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post #265 of 457
[quote]Originally posted by rickag:
<strong>Has any one found out if the MPC8540 is available or not?

It appears that MOSR, The Register, Archintosh, etc. really blew it. At one point or another, I believe each were saying that the G5 was in or close to production, if not available....</strong><hr></blockquote>
Captain Obvious here: just wanted to point out that there are no indications whatever that the 8540 is slated for the PowerMac.

Have a nice day, and don't forget to think!
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post #266 of 457
[quote]
OK, now that we know you hate conservatives can we get back to discussing the G5?

Embrace the future people. Embrace the G5.
<hr></blockquote>

Oh, oh the G5, sorry.

Hmmm.

Hmmm.

Oh yeah, the G5 doesn't exist.

Shall we discuss politics, or create another "My friend's Mom is a macrobiotic vegan hooker and she was servicing some guy in Palo Alto that wouldn't take off his blue jeans or his black turtle neck (she thought that was weird btw) and she swears this guy was murmuring "the G5 is coming at the WWDC, the G5 is coming at the WWDC." She asked the guy what they hell he was talking about and he showed her what he claimed was a quad 2Ghz G5 with a 400Mhz bus and QDR ram in a titanium case (anodized black, no doubt) and it would sell for $1299.00. She had no idea what the hell this guy was ranting about, but she did notice an Apple logo on the machine and since she knows her son is a mac-head, she told him and I'm telling you. Take it for what it's worth.
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post #267 of 457
If you want to discuss politics there is a forum called AppleOutsider.
post #268 of 457
The G5 exists dammit, and it is coming. ACCEPT IT!!!!!
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post #269 of 457
Outsider
Just checking, people here and over at Arstechnica have said the MPC8540 is available and I have yet to see a Motorola document stating that the MPC8540 is in fact a shipping product.

Most of this speculation is based on the MPC8540 Fact Sheet which has links to a "where to buy section"

I checked all the where to buy links and found absolutely no reference to the MPC8540 at any of the sites. Also, Motorola's own pdf cross reference list for 1st half of 2002 doesn't list the MPC8540.

But people continue to post as if the MPC8540 is a shipping product. Maybe I'm wrong and it is shipping, but I would really like to see a link verifying this contention.
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post #270 of 457
I kinda doubt that the 8540 is any indication of when the G5 for Apple's PowerMacs will ship. I think Apple has been playing a much bigger role here than we think. Just because Motorola has or hasn't put out some embedded chip that is based on some of the technology Moto and Apple are using for the G5 desktop chip doesn't really matter if Apple has been a big player in the desktop G5 development. This would also explain why there have not been any public announcements of the G5 from Motorola, kinda like the G4, when they talked a little about it at some Microprocessor Forum (I forgot which one it was.), since any word about it is a breach of NDA.

[ 01-22-2002: Message edited by: Tarbash ]</p>
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post #271 of 457
didn't Capt. Obvious say,
"Captain Obvious here: just wanted to point out that there are no indications whatever that the 8540 is slated for the PowerMac."

If you had taken the time to read any of my previous posts regarding this subject, any at all, you would know I have never said the MPC8540 would be used in a desktop computer.

The importance of the MPC8540 lays in the fact that in Motorola's press release on 10/17/02, they REPEATEDLY referered to the MPC8540 as the first G5 processor, the foundation for future G5 development.

Their own press release stated that the MPC8540 would be sampling in the 2nd half of 2002. That would mean the G5 from Motorola for any PowerMac would come late in the year or early 2003.

YET STILL, people post that either the MPC8540 is shipping and the G5 for Apple will appear soon. I want proof and no one has posted a single link verifying the availability of the MPC8540.
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just waiting to be included in one of Apple's target markets.
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post #272 of 457
Let me see if I get this right. Motorola sold, what, 66 million processors total in the fiscal year 2000? Motorola was a $37 billion company that year?

Of that, they sold about what, a million? to Apple. I guess that puts Apple at the top of Mototola's priority list

Also, people keep bringing up the fact that Apple is playing a large role in designing the G5. Yes, they are a part of AIM, but how many engineers does Apple have involved in the actual design of the processors. I truely haven't got the foggiest, but I'd venture that is less than Motorola and Motorola has the largest say in the actual design of processors. Not just the Book E specifications. Prove me wrong, show me the data.

Apple is truely between a rock and a hard place. Motorola makes the vast bulk of their processors for embedded applications, let's see 1÷66X100= 1.51% of Motorola's processors are sold to Apple. That represents about $400 - 500 million maybe out of 37 billion in sales.

My numbers are from memory and are probably off but even an error of a factor of 2X wouldn't make a difference. Get over it, Motorola has repeatedly proved they do not want to design and manufacture a desktop cpu. Deal with it.
just waiting to be included in one of Apple's target markets.
Don't get me wrong, I like the flat panel iMac, actually own an iMac, and I like the Mac mini, but...........
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just waiting to be included in one of Apple's target markets.
Don't get me wrong, I like the flat panel iMac, actually own an iMac, and I like the Mac mini, but...........
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post #273 of 457
Well Suckfuldotcom,

It looks like you avoided the bullet on the first PowerMac update of the year. Looks like the waiting game continues.
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post #274 of 457
[quote]Originally posted by rickag:
<strong>Let me see if I get this right. Motorola sold, what, 66 million processors total in the fiscal year 2000? Motorola was a $37 billion company that year?

Of that, they sold about what, a million? to Apple. I guess that puts Apple at the top of Mototola's priority list </strong><hr></blockquote>

Doesn't apple also fund some of the PPC development costs.

Keep in mind that Apple also buys their most expensive processors.

and Motorola has shown that they will design a processor special for apple. the 7450 is a perfect example. they just got lucky that Cisco decided to use it too
post #275 of 457
[quote]Originally posted by applenut:
<strong>

Doesn't apple also fund some of the PPC development costs.

Keep in mind that Apple also buys their most expensive processors.

and Motorola has shown that they will design a processor special for apple. the 7450 is a perfect example. they just got lucky that Cisco decided to use it too</strong><hr></blockquote>

They they got lucky that cisco decided to use it also. DECIDED? LOL!

<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
post #276 of 457
applenut

I would assume that Apple is actively involved in the development of the Book E spec's. As far as designing the cpu's, I don't know.

Note: In Motorola's press release describing the MPC7455, that now uses SOI, Motorola mentioned Ericsson(sp?) specifically with no mention of Apple at all.

I may be way off base, but all evidence in Motorola's documentation, press releases, etc. indicates that their main focus, by a long shot, is embedded processors.

The war between Intel and AMD spurred extremely large jumps in cpu design for desktops and Motorola has not kept pace. They don't have to. They don't what to, desktop cpu's from Intel and AMD generate too much heat and use too much power.

The answer to my percieved dilema that Apple faces eludes me and it appears it eludes Apple also. If any one has an answer, please send Apple an email, I'm sure they'd be interested.

[ 01-28-2002: Message edited by: rickag ]</p>
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just waiting to be included in one of Apple's target markets.
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post #277 of 457
[quote]Corportate Media? Yes, but they sure as hell are NOT conservatives! The liberal bias in the media is well documented and proven. It has been proven that interviews with conservatives are, on average, edited THREE times more than their liberal counterparts. Dan Rather and Peter Jennings, as well as Tom Brokaw are all outspoken liberals. There are VERY few balanced networks.<hr></blockquote>

Ok, a few broadcasters are democrats, but you do realize that they are not the ones who decide what to report, right? The corporate media is owned and operated by ultra-rich, ultra-right wingers. That's a fact. And the news stories reflect that bias. If the media is so left wing, then why were they focusing on Clinton's sex life, when there were real, imposing issues to report on? The media could have focused on problems that affect our lives, like global warming, habitat destruciton and loss of biodiversity, or global disease prevention and poverty. They could have reported on the corporate contributions and influence in Washington (both parties). Instead they distracted attention from these issues with stories that don't impact our lives. That's why the media is right wing, because they empower those who are currently in power, the corporatinos, the millitary-industrial complex.



[quote]---Seriously now. That is VERY harsh. And the fact that you believe that right wing/conservative people/politicians are like this is proof of the criminal liberal media's influence on the population of this nation.<hr></blockquote>

Yeah, right, the media reports on this. If right wingers cared then they would do something about it. They choose to ignore the problem at the very least, or at worst, they make matters worse through their budget allocations.

[quote]Our Government is a bloated, corrupt institution. As I have said before, if you add up the taxes that are paid in this nation by the working class and even "lower upper class" (say those that earn up to 200,000 year), it comes to 50-60% of your income. What??? You say that sounds absurdly high? Well:

40% goes to Federal Income and SS tax.

In PA, where I live, the state tax is 2.5%

Local Tax: 1% of my income for me.

Gas Tax=50% of total purchase price. Assuming a two car family spends 1200/year on gas, that means about 1-2% of income goes to this tax. ($30-60,000 per year income assumed)

This brings us to 44.5% without considering: Luxury Tax, Ciggarette Tax, Licensing Fees (drivers license, fishing hunting, boating.....they are all really just another way of taxing).

Don't forget about property taxes, assuming my income (between 30-60,000 let's just say), the property taxes on my house I'm buying will be over 5% of my INCOME!!!!

That brings us to 49.5%. Oh, and don't forget your phone, cable and internet bills. They not only get taxed, they included things like "federal access fees" and the like, which are taxes intended to pay for things like innner city internet connections and the like. Oh, and did I mention SALES TAX? That, in my state, is 6% of almost everything you spend! Assuming most Americans spend more than 80% of their incomes (and that is probably a LOW figure), we can tack on another 4% or so.<hr></blockquote>

Look at yourself, your selfish and arrogant, whining about having to pay taxes. Nobody forces you to pay taxes, you are welcome to go somewhere else. Oh, what's that, you want to live in the USA? Well the privilidge of living here costs, buddy.

You want the best public health measures in the world? The greatest military? A population that is served by their government? That costs money.

BTW, the US has the lowest tax rate of any industrialized nation. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. Part of the reason is that the US doesn't provide health care to it's citizens, instead we saddle corporations with that bill.

And yes, obviously our government is corrupt, but ALL governments are. The US government is less corrupt than most, at least, but the job of keeping the government honest falls on the media. And the media hasn't been doing a good job of this lately. Yeah, we nailed Clinton for shagging in the Oval Office, but what about real corruption, of the sort where the will of the people, the constitution, is violated? Like in the Iran/Contra affair, where the adminstrative branch broke the constitution by violating congressional law, effectively negating the balance of power between government branches? That is the important corruption that the media should report on, and it could happen in ANY administration, but rather than watch Clinton on that front, they worried about his personal business. Lame.

So you're going to respond with talk about how you DESERVE lower taxes, just because, and blah blah blah. I'd personally rather pay taxes and have the services and benefits our government provides to us, but it's fine we disagree on this one. We probably both vote so our opinions are heard, right? Elections DO matter in the US...right? I think so?
post #278 of 457
[quote]Originally posted by rickag:
<strong>

The importance of the MPC8540 lays in the fact that in Motorola's press release on 10/17/02, they REPEATEDLY referered to the MPC8540 as the first G5 processor, the foundation for future G5 development.

</strong><hr></blockquote>

Except that Motorola's own press release (at <a href="http://www.motorola.com/mediacenter/news/detail/0,1958,568_322_23,00.html)" target="_blank">http://www.motorola.com/mediacenter/news/detail/0,1958,568_322_23,00.html)</a> says nothing of the sort.
post #279 of 457
I hear a lot of "MPC8540" here and people stating that it's ready and others that it's not.
have you ever though about the fact, that the 8540 may well NOT be the chip Apple is going to use as the "G5" chip in the end?
Aparently the 8540 is aimed at the embedded market anyway, so it's likely that Apple would use a modified version without all the ethernet stuff etc to use as their host processor. And exactly WHO said that "our" G5 is "their" 8540?
Maybe "our" G5 is the yet unannounced and secretly developped 8550 or even different, and maybe it's ready for MWNY (FORGET about MWTY, that's powerbook time there), maybe it's not.

You're emphasizing far too much on totally unconfirmed stuff to build up your "Confirmed: blabla" statements.

We know nothing. And I know that I know nothing. And that is already a lot.

G-News
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post #280 of 457
Frankly, I don't think the e500 core will be the basis of the G5 that Apple will eventually put in their machines. It only has a 7 stage pipeline. In fact, the more I think about it, the more I think that Apple is actively involved in the design of a Book-E core that Motorola will incorporate in their modular chip design for Apple's desktop business. Think about it. The MPC8540 is just a modular chip design of a processor core, memory controller, PCI-X controller, some Ethernet, serial controllers, etc. Apple might 'BTO' their own design from Motorola. Sort of like a chinese buffet. A little kung-pow chicken, a little crab rangoon, some shrimp fried rice... a 14 stage Processor core with Altivec, a DDR memory controller, an ethernet and firewire controller, PCI-X controller. The purpose of Book-E is for a flexable chip design to bring SOC and and other chip solutions to market quicker.
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