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Apple notebook lines to see major design changes, sources say - Page 4

post #121 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by switcher3365 View Post

I don't think I could bear doing another "is it coming this Tuesday?" thing all this summer.

I know what you mean, but I think I'll hold out.

Montevina includes some sort of instruction set that helps decode video for Blu-Ray, so we can look forward to that. Considering such a prospect, Apple would be foolish to not avail itself of a Blu-Ray drive in the next MBP. (I would be surprised and disappointed if they kept videographersand the rest of uswaiting for this next step in optical media.)

Also, I'm eager to see Fujitsu's 320 GB 7200 RPM drive as a BTO for the next MBP. If Apple doesn't offer the drive as an option, OWC will.

"The waiting is the hardest part."
-T. Petty
post #122 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sybaritic View Post

I know what you mean, but I think I'll hold out.

Montevina includes some sort of instruction set that helps decode video for Blu-Ray, so we can look forward to that. Considering such a prospect, Apple would be foolish to not avail itself of a Blu-Ray drive in the next MBP. (I would be surprised and disappointed if they kept videographersand the rest of uswaiting for this next step in optical media.)

Also, I'm eager to see Fujitsu's 320 GB 7200 RPM drive as a BTO for the next MBP. If Apple doesn't offer the drive as an option, OWC will.

"The waiting is the hardest part."
-T. Petty

It's true that the GMA X4500 IGP is going to do hardware decoding of the hi-def video codecs in 1080p, but that's hardly a selling point on its own. The MBP already has a discrete GPU that can do that, and even without hardware decoding, any Core 2 Duo processor has more than enough power to spare.
post #123 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sybaritic View Post

Apple would be foolish to not avail itself of a Blu-Ray drive in the next MBP.

this is beyond apple's control, atm. sony is the main hold up.
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post #124 of 189
The MacBook (white) gets scratched easily, and when you close the lids, the hand rests are easily chipped due to a design defect on the upper lids.

You're better off waiting for an aluminum MacBook. They're gonna be hot sexy pr0nz.

hvt


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rokken View Post

Is the current white MacBook anti-scratch? If yes, I would rather go for it in the near future before they refresh. I like the white enclosure
post #125 of 189
So, a few things I'm hearing after reading this thread that stuck out in particular:

1. Someone commented that Apple needs to return to a tray-drive because slot-drives can't do mini-DVD's. Well, the Nintendo Wii handles half-size disks just fine alongside regular ones, and it still slot-loads. People at the time said it couldn't be done, but they did it. Granted, it would likely require a thicker enclosure than Apple design would allow. Also, Apple switched from tray loading to slot loading in the original iMacs because the tray drives were obscenely easy to break. And that's on a stationary machine. Not to mention a tray-drive requires more thickness than a slot-drive.

2. Blu-Ray. Sony's not the only one holding them back. There is also power consumption. A BD drive sucks unbelievable amounts of energy to power that blue laser. DVD's use red lasers, which operate at a lesser frequency on the light spectrum and thus require less energy to produce (hence red stars are relatively cool compared to blue stars). BD drives are still a developing technology, and current notebook applications are just not practical right now.

3. Carbon-Ceramic? Ceramics are very heavy, hence the NASA shuttle only has it on the bottom, to keep it upright entering the atmosphere and so it has less weight on lift-off. It deflects heat from the atmosphere very well, but there's a reason the shuttle is largely unchanged after the 2003 Columbia disaster, besides the fact that NASA's pretty much broke comparatively. My understanding is that carbon-ceramics are used as the primary materials for the brakes in ultra high-end sports cars, not necessarily for weight savings, but for their resistance to brake fade, or rapid degradation due to the extreme forces of friction and heat when under heavy, repetitive abuse. It is also my understanding (though probably incorrectly so) that the rotor and the caliper are each made of either carbon-fiber or ceramic, but not both in the same part. As it is, Apple is already hiring for people with experience in carbon-composite materials; the problem being that, starting from scratch, it will be some time before the fruits of this endevour come to market. But is will produce Toughbook-competitive products at some point.

4. First revision always bites. Well, historically, whenever Apple has done anything radically new or different in their design, then yes. But everything they are churning out now that isn't an entirely new product line has elements previously explored and refined in older products even if the product itself is all-new. Any new design they include will have been tested, such as the backlit keyboard on the MBA was a combination of the backlight of the MBP and the overall design of the MB, while considering current complaints about the backlight not contrasting with the keys under all conditions. Mag-clasp? It works, its been done, little can go wrong. Even better, its cheaper to produce than a multi-piece fastener that is prone to breaking. Also, the beveled edges of the MBA actually help its rigidity at the same thickness of aluminum. Look at the pointed arches in gothic-style cathedrals compared to the venerable Roman arch: it is a functional evolution of the design. There IS a reason old cathedrals didn't use tall rectangular windows with no arches over them (as the current MBP does, thus causing the bent disc slot problem).

5. 15 & 17" MacBooks. 15" ok duh, the iBook did it. But 17" is pushing it at a consumer level. For 17" to function at Apple-acceptable standards, it has to have beefier hardware than the non-Pro lineup standard would allow. Sometimes you just have to accept that Jobs is as stubborn as a mule. That's why he was fired from Apple in the 80's. Coincidently, the reason he got fired was because he refused to put either case vents or fans in a particular product design, which ultimately created beige-colored plastic and metal toaster ovens for silicon. That hasn't changed much since, except that technology is catching up to Steve's ridiculous demands. Also, a "true" ultra-portable will probably not come in a notebook form factor simply because making the keyboard any smaller is just not ergonomic to type on. The Air is the (almost) practical limit for notebooks.

6. Making any critical component in an Apple product easily user-replaceable is against good sales strategy. It sucks for the end user, but it makes money. By the time something goes horribly wrong, the consumer will ave been so happy with it until that point that they want to stick with the brand. It will usually be about the time where the product itself is obsolete, and the complexity and frustration involved in repairing it will not really be worth the trouble, thus making an entirely new machine a more desirable option (especially with credit towards its purchase with the trade-in of the broken unit). The ability for particularly resourceful end users to replace the batteries and HD's in old iPods wouldn't make Apple as much money as making them replace a broken unit with a newer better one, and this has held true. Not to mention, making any product easily serviceable or even modular adds a lot of extra bulk to the unit. Why are iPod Nanos so thin? because they don't need a modular hard drive like the Mini did; they have the flash storage soldered to the mainboard directly.

7. Metal enclosures vs. Plastic. Well, that's precisely why the AirPort Extreme and TimeCapsule still sport the outdated white plastic. They wouldn't have shipped TimeCapsule in a design scheme they were phasing out if there were practical alternatives aside from adding ugly external antennae. Also, notice that the iTouch has that one plastic corner where the WiFi antenna is, and the iPhone has that entire black section on the bottom. Apple knows that metal hinders WiFi. They just haven't found a way to use this effectively in something the size of a full metal notebook without adding an ugly plastic panel on the monitor (strategically the best location for an antenna in a notebook) in an unsightly location, lest it detract from the overall design appeal of the machine. But they insist that plastic is dead and the way of the future is brushed aluminum and stainless steel.

8. You want color options, you say? well go to colorwarepc.com. They do most of their business colorizing Macs and iPods in any crazy color combination you can come up with, and now they do game consoles and TVs as well. It costs serious coin, but get this: their paint process uses a completely scratch proof clear coat, even on the screens of scratch-prone iPods (but not iTouch, iPhone or any other device screen). They will even match a 50" TV to the color of your walls. But again, this ain't cheap. Think $99 for a mono-tone iPod Classic paintjob, and work your way up from there.

9. Firewire 800/3200? Are you serious? Firewire is a dying breed. It failed to be picked up by the rest of the industry and is now limited in use mostly to Macs,, and even Apple is spotty in their support for it (no FW cables with iPods anymore, consumer products get slower FW, etc.). It would be better for Apple to help develop and refine a legacy-compatible USB 3.0, which they almost did with the MBA's extra-high-powered solitary USB port and its exclusive external superdrive.

10. The current MBP design goes all the way back to 2003-ish. Well, it goes back further than that, the design itself originated in the Ti-Book in what, 2000? but its a timeless design that doesn't need much updating, much like Ray-Band Aviator sunglasses, or any given electric guitar from a notable maker. Only those with a trained eye will be able to tell the difference between any two given vintages of a Gibson Les Paul.

A few things I do think Apple really needs to address, however, is the possibility of including a dedicated number pad on the keyboard of MBP's, and especially need to rethink about having the eject button right next to the delete key, and the shift button right next to the up-arrow. So many times, I've hit eject instead of delete (though I rarely have anything in my disc drive), and the up arrow instead of shift, which causes me to start typing in the middle of the line above, creating a big mess of things. Then, there's the keyboard on the laptops. Not tat this doesn't happen to other brands too, but the glossy screen has scratches etched in the pattern of the keyboard layout. Also, as Hemantvt83 said, the palmrests do chip on the MB's, and the plastic does scratch easily (mine's covered in a Spec hard-shell case). Also, using plastic instead of metal restricts how thin you can make a laptop; you need much thicker plastic to have the rigidity of metal.

Let's see, did I miss anything important?
Oh, screen dithering. Yes, I see it on a day-to-day basis, but it is mostly noticeable only when working with photos from a point-and-shoot camera or when I tilt the screen all the way back and look at it from a low angle. That said, they do accomplish a very convincing dithering effect, especially compared to PC laptops. Although, I'm only using a MacBook with CCFL backlighting.

Any other takes on all this?
post #126 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by waffle911 View Post

6. Making any critical component in an Apple product easily user-replaceable is against good sales strategy. It sucks for the end user, but it makes money. By the time something goes horribly wrong, the consumer will ave been so happy with it until that point that they want to stick with the brand. It will usually be about the time where the product itself is obsolete, and the complexity and frustration involved in repairing it will not really be worth the trouble, thus making an entirely new machine a more desirable option (especially with credit towards its purchase with the trade-in of the broken unit). The ability for particularly resourceful end users to replace the batteries and HD's in old iPods wouldn't make Apple as much money as making them replace a broken unit with a newer better one, and this has held true. Not to mention, making any product easily serviceable or even modular adds a lot of extra bulk to the unit. Why are iPod Nanos so thin? because they don't need a modular hard drive like the Mini did; they have the flash storage soldered to the mainboard directly.

You seem to be overlooking the fact that the current MacBook has an easily-replaceable HDD. Many of us would simply like to see that design carried over to the MacBook Pro.
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post #127 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by waffle911 View Post

So, a few things I'm hearing after reading this thread that stuck out in particular:

1. Someone commented that Apple needs to return to a tray-drive because slot-drives can't do mini-DVD's. Well, the Nintendo Wii handles half-size disks just fine alongside regular ones, and it still slot-loads. People at the time said it couldn't be done, but they did it. Granted, it would likely require a thicker enclosure than Apple design would allow. Also, Apple switched from tray loading to slot loading in the original iMacs because the tray drives were obscenely easy to break. And that's on a stationary machine. Not to mention a tray-drive requires more thickness than a slot-drive.

2. Blu-Ray. Sony's not the only one holding them back. There is also power consumption. A BD drive sucks unbelievable amounts of energy to power that blue laser. DVD's use red lasers, which operate at a lesser frequency on the light spectrum and thus require less energy to produce (hence red stars are relatively cool compared to blue stars). BD drives are still a developing technology, and current notebook applications are just not practical right now.

3. Carbon-Ceramic? Ceramics are very heavy, hence the NASA shuttle only has it on the bottom, to keep it upright entering the atmosphere and so it has less weight on lift-off. It deflects heat from the atmosphere very well, but there's a reason the shuttle is largely unchanged after the 2003 Columbia disaster, besides the fact that NASA's pretty much broke comparatively. My understanding is that carbon-ceramics are used as the primary materials for the brakes in ultra high-end sports cars, not necessarily for weight savings, but for their resistance to brake fade, or rapid degradation due to the extreme forces of friction and heat when under heavy, repetitive abuse. It is also my understanding (though probably incorrectly so) that the rotor and the caliper are each made of either carbon-fiber or ceramic, but not both in the same part. As it is, Apple is already hiring for people with experience in carbon-composite materials; the problem being that, starting from scratch, it will be some time before the fruits of this endevour come to market. But is will produce Toughbook-competitive products at some point.

4. First revision always bites. Well, historically, whenever Apple has done anything radically new or different in their design, then yes. But everything they are churning out now that isn't an entirely new product line has elements previously explored and refined in older products even if the product itself is all-new. Any new design they include will have been tested, such as the backlit keyboard on the MBA was a combination of the backlight of the MBP and the overall design of the MB, while considering current complaints about the backlight not contrasting with the keys under all conditions. Mag-clasp? It works, its been done, little can go wrong. Even better, its cheaper to produce than a multi-piece fastener that is prone to breaking. Also, the beveled edges of the MBA actually help its rigidity at the same thickness of aluminum. Look at the pointed arches in gothic-style cathedrals compared to the venerable Roman arch: it is a functional evolution of the design. There IS a reason old cathedrals didn't use tall rectangular windows with no arches over them (as the current MBP does, thus causing the bent disc slot problem).

5. 15 & 17" MacBooks. 15" ok duh, the iBook did it. But 17" is pushing it at a consumer level. For 17" to function at Apple-acceptable standards, it has to have beefier hardware than the non-Pro lineup standard would allow. Sometimes you just have to accept that Jobs is as stubborn as a mule. That's why he was fired from Apple in the 80's. Coincidently, the reason he got fired was because he refused to put either case vents or fans in a particular product design, which ultimately created beige-colored plastic and metal toaster ovens for silicon. That hasn't changed much since, except that technology is catching up to Steve's ridiculous demands. Also, a "true" ultra-portable will probably not come in a notebook form factor simply because making the keyboard any smaller is just not ergonomic to type on. The Air is the (almost) practical limit for notebooks.

6. Making any critical component in an Apple product easily user-replaceable is against good sales strategy. It sucks for the end user, but it makes money. By the time something goes horribly wrong, the consumer will ave been so happy with it until that point that they want to stick with the brand. It will usually be about the time where the product itself is obsolete, and the complexity and frustration involved in repairing it will not really be worth the trouble, thus making an entirely new machine a more desirable option (especially with credit towards its purchase with the trade-in of the broken unit). The ability for particularly resourceful end users to replace the batteries and HD's in old iPods wouldn't make Apple as much money as making them replace a broken unit with a newer better one, and this has held true. Not to mention, making any product easily serviceable or even modular adds a lot of extra bulk to the unit. Why are iPod Nanos so thin? because they don't need a modular hard drive like the Mini did; they have the flash storage soldered to the mainboard directly.

7. Metal enclosures vs. Plastic. Well, that's precisely why the AirPort Extreme and TimeCapsule still sport the outdated white plastic. They wouldn't have shipped TimeCapsule in a design scheme they were phasing out if there were practical alternatives aside from adding ugly external antennae. Also, notice that the iTouch has that one plastic corner where the WiFi antenna is, and the iPhone has that entire black section on the bottom. Apple knows that metal hinders WiFi. They just haven't found a way to use this effectively in something the size of a full metal notebook without adding an ugly plastic panel on the monitor (strategically the best location for an antenna in a notebook) in an unsightly location, lest it detract from the overall design appeal of the machine. But they insist that plastic is dead and the way of the future is brushed aluminum and stainless steel.

8. You want color options, you say? well go to colorwarepc.com. They do most of their business colorizing Macs and iPods in any crazy color combination you can come up with, and now they do game consoles and TVs as well. It costs serious coin, but get this: their paint process uses a completely scratch proof clear coat, even on the screens of scratch-prone iPods (but not iTouch, iPhone or any other device screen). They will even match a 50" TV to the color of your walls. But again, this ain't cheap. Think $99 for a mono-tone iPod Classic paintjob, and work your way up from there.

9. Firewire 800/3200? Are you serious? Firewire is a dying breed. It failed to be picked up by the rest of the industry and is now limited in use mostly to Macs,, and even Apple is spotty in their support for it (no FW cables with iPods anymore, consumer products get slower FW, etc.). It would be better for Apple to help develop and refine a legacy-compatible USB 3.0, which they almost did with the MBA's extra-high-powered solitary USB port and its exclusive external superdrive.

10. The current MBP design goes all the way back to 2003-ish. Well, it goes back further than that, the design itself originated in the Ti-Book in what, 2000? but its a timeless design that doesn't need much updating, much like Ray-Band Aviator sunglasses, or any given electric guitar from a notable maker. Only those with a trained eye will be able to tell the difference between any two given vintages of a Gibson Les Paul.

A few things I do think Apple really needs to address, however, is the possibility of including a dedicated number pad on the keyboard of MBP's, and especially need to rethink about having the eject button right next to the delete key, and the shift button right next to the up-arrow. So many times, I've hit eject instead of delete (though I rarely have anything in my disc drive), and the up arrow instead of shift, which causes me to start typing in the middle of the line above, creating a big mess of things. Then, there's the keyboard on the laptops. Not tat this doesn't happen to other brands too, but the glossy screen has scratches etched in the pattern of the keyboard layout. Also, as Hemantvt83 said, the palmrests do chip on the MB's, and the plastic does scratch easily (mine's covered in a Spec hard-shell case). Also, using plastic instead of metal restricts how thin you can make a laptop; you need much thicker plastic to have the rigidity of metal.

Let's see, did I miss anything important?
Oh, screen dithering. Yes, I see it on a day-to-day basis, but it is mostly noticeable only when working with photos from a point-and-shoot camera or when I tilt the screen all the way back and look at it from a low angle. That said, they do accomplish a very convincing dithering effect, especially compared to PC laptops. Although, I'm only using a MacBook with CCFL backlighting.

Any other takes on all this?

Your Firewire comments grossly exaggerate the demise of Firewire.

This incomplete list is quite respectable:
http://www.1394ta.com/About/products..._products.html
http://www.1394ta.com/About/products..._products.html
http://www.1394ta.com/About/products..._products.html

Another non well-known use of FireWire:

Alternative uses for IEEE 1394

Aircraft

IEEE 1394b is used in military aircraft, where weight savings are desired; even four pairs of wires, to permit multiple redundancy, are far lighter than hundreds of discrete wires. Developed for use as the data bus on the F-22 Raptor, it is also used on the F-35 Lightning II.[17] NASA's Space Shuttle also uses IEEE 1394b to monitor debris (foam, ice) which may hit the vehicle during launch.[17] This standard should not be confused with the unrelated MIL-STD-1394B.

http://www.ausairpower.net/OSR-0201.html

Feb 28, 2008 Taiwan News:
http://www.electroniccomponents.glob...0000094887.htm

EEE 1394 connectors
Industry News
FireWire is Taiwan's current hot ticket
Posted : February 26, 2008

Taiwan – Recent developments in FireWire are fueling the production of interconnect products in Taiwan. With the release of new standards by the 1394 Trade Association (1394TA), suppliers are scrambling to break into new markets and tap a wider application range.

Also known as FireWire, the IEEE 1394 interface is widely used in A/V and computer products, and is now gaining ground in the automotive, networking, home entertainment, industrial cameras, aerospace and defense sectors.

Taiwan's leading suppliers of connectors and cable assemblies are launching new models that support 1394TA's new standards. These companies—Comoss Electronic Co. Ltd, Elka International Ltd, Advanced Connectek Inc., Cheng Uei Precision Industry Co. Ltd and Inventec Corp.—are members of 1394TA.

On 1394TA's drawing board are higher-speed S6400, and singlemode-fiber support. "Another potential project is to update the POF specifications to include new, higher-performance fibers covered by IEC 60793-2-40 and improved connectors such as the small-multimedia interface (SMI) connector," Les Baxter, current chairperson of the IEEE 1394 committee.

Taiwan on development forefront

From its origins as a high-speed serial bus, IEEE 1394 is now regarded as "a full-fledged LAN," according to Baxter. New versions of IEEE 1394 feature increased speed, optimized interface and enhanced functionality. The networks now support higher bit rates: the S100 at 100Mbps and S3200 at 3.2Gbps throughput, respectively, ideal for interface involving huge volume or time-critical data.

One of the first Taiwan companies to release devices that support S3200 is Comoss. The company produces products for small multimedia interface (SMI), such as IEEE 1394b for SMI OE converters, SMI transceivers, SMI connectors and SMI patch cords. It manufactures components and complete solutions for HDTVs, set-up boxes, DVD recorders and computer products.

Comoss has completed 1394TA's compliance test early in 2007, according to managing director Stanley Tsai. He says that Comoss is developing new products for applications in industrial equipment, security devices, media and storage products, and home network systems.
Note: All price quotes in this report are in US dollars unless otherwise specified. FOB prices were provided by the companies interviewed only as reference prices at the time of interview and may have changed.
IDB-1394 Customer Convenience Port (CCP) is the automotive version of the 1394 standard. [1]
post #128 of 189
Maybe with revisions to the line of notebooks we might at last see an Ultra portable Mac from apple! Something like the Air but with a 11" screen would be perfect. The Air while thin and light is just not small enough to be the perfect travel companion, especially when using on a plane or train. I would rather see it being half an inch thicker if the screen size can be reduced to 11".
post #129 of 189
So I am debating whether to buy a refurb MacBook and wait to see what the new update will actually be.

I will not buy a new MBP if it has chicklet (though I don't mind it for temporary reasons in a MacBook)

Not sure if I would buy MBP with the classic keyboard if it's black - still on the fence with that but probably not likely.

That said. If they do announce an update in June - it will likely just be an announcement/presentation of what's to come and therefore should allow me time to go out and buy a remaining current generation before they ship the new ones - right? Or is this wishful thinking on my part?
post #130 of 189
Personally... I would love to have a aluminum macbook that is cheap enough that I don't have do dish out another thousand or so dollars...
I would love if it was both aluminum and black.. like this... (the video has some features i would like like the tablet but that is not how i would do it... check the tablet forum 4 my prefrences on that...)
http://www.popularmechanics.com/tech...e/4243000.html
- - What I mean here is the cover you see before it first opens

-1oftheothers
post #131 of 189
@ Mr. H:

You still have to unscrew the entire top panel to get inside; the old iBook the keyboard was easily removable. My school had a cart of the first-gen iBooks and kids would hide stuff in them, like a note that said "There's $20 in #23". When the tech department finally junked them, they piled them in a heap and let the kids go at it, because all of them were dead; one kid I know made $1400 by selling the internal Airport cards for $100 each on ebay! Mind you, the G4 iBooks were out by this time; the card from a first-gen wasn't all that special.
Point is, if a kid can salvage parts from an older model, then the new ones are designed to keep you out. not to mention the inexperienced won't know that some of the screws on the side of the MacBook aren't necessary to remove to open it up.

@ mdriftmeyer:

Good call. I hadn't seen those at all, my statement was mainy based on personal observation in consumer electronics, as even the 2nd gen Nano didn't support FireWire from my experience. Though I must ask, as it appears that this is a special Taiwanese specification, because all of this seems to be in Taiwan. Is this a consumer application and will it be available globally?

@murphyweb:

I don't think Apple would ever really consider making an 11" ultraportable notebook unless it was a convertable, as the form-factor is too small to have a comfortable full keyboard on, and Apple would not allow that to happen whether consumers want it or not (blanket statement as above!) It would be more realistic to hold on to hope for a new Newton tablet PC at 9" or 11" and go with another solution for text input. Though one innovative design is the Flybook VM, where the screen is on a telescoping arm to extend above the keyboard and toward the user to allow room for a reclining seat in front of you.
Speaking of the VM, Apple would do well to take a few other cues from it as well, such as integrating nearly every available wireless data technology on the planet. It's insane. And it still has a DVD burner. But its expensive as all get out (like that's any different with the MBA).

@ yippie:

If you give the "chicklet" keyboard enough time to get used to it, you'll never want to go back. Seriously, it takes getting used to , but in the end it feels better and more solid. That's why Sony copied it. Sure, the sculpting is nearly nil (to keep them thin), but the way the keys are spaced out help with tactile precision is really quite well done (and the keys lie nearly flus with the surface when depressed, helping to keep dirt and other crud from accumulating underneath).
Also, given the Apple way of introducing revised products, there will be very little time between announcement and sales. New products that won't cannibalize older ones are free to wait awhile after announcement; its great advertising. Replacements are instantaneous, or at least occur within a week to my knowledge. That's how it went with the MacBook replacing the iBook, I believe.

@ oneoftheothers:

THAT is what I'm talking about. That is awesome. That is the next step in computers, which is why Samsung and Dell have both had models made using that design principal of modular notebooks.
post #132 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by waffle911 View Post

@ Mr. H:

You still have to unscrew the entire top panel to get inside; the old iBook the keyboard was easily removable. My school had a cart of the first-gen iBooks and kids would hide stuff in them, like a note that said "There's $20 in #23". When the tech department finally junked them, they piled them in a heap and let the kids go at it, because all of them were dead; one kid I know made $1400 by selling the internal Airport cards for $100 each on ebay! Mind you, the G4 iBooks were out by this time; the card from a first-gen wasn't all that special.
Point is, if a kid can salvage parts from an older model, then the new ones are designed to keep you out. not to mention the inexperienced won't know that some of the screws on the side of the MacBook aren't necessary to remove to open it up.

Do you even know what you are talking about?

The Macbook does NOT require removing the case to access the hard disk. Its just

1)Remove battery.
2)Remove L-bracket.
3)Pull out hard disk.

And after the nightmare that is disassembling the entire iBook G4 just to change the hard disk, most of us here expects the ease of accessibility to inner components like RAM and hard disk to be made standard for all of Apple's notebook models.

Dont assume everyone here is rich enough to pay Apple $60+ (exclusing cost of new hard disk) just to change a hard disk.
post #133 of 189
Does anyone know if the new Macbooks will have LED display & Multi-touch ??
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post #134 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by waffle911 View Post


@ mdriftmeyer:

Good call. I hadn't seen those at all, my statement was mainy based on personal observation in consumer electronics, as even the 2nd gen Nano didn't support FireWire from my experience. Though I must ask, as it appears that this is a special Taiwanese specification, because all of this seems to be in Taiwan. Is this a consumer application and will it be available globally?

That pretty much indicates that you don't know nothing about Firewire.

For general information:
http://www.1394ta.org/index.html

Latest news:
http://www.1394ta.org/Press/2008Press/april/4.8.a.htm
post #135 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonadow View Post

Do you even know what you are talking about?

The Macbook does NOT require removing the case to access the hard disk. Its just

1)Remove battery.
2)Remove L-bracket.
3)Pull out hard disk.

Exactly. A HD replacement on a Macbook is a 5 minute task.
post #136 of 189
Synthesis of likely specs for new range to include the following for both MacBook and MacBook Pro ranges based on rumour/ speculation on AI:
  • Aluminum / Stainless steel metallic enclosures
  • Larger multi-touch gesture track pads
  • Backlit MBA-style keyboards
  • Penryn/ Centrino 2 processors from 2.4 Ghz to 2.8 Ghz
  • 2 -4 Gb RAM
  • 200-500 Gb HDD
  • 128-160 Gb SSD option
  • Built-in optical drives (possible Blu-ray option in MBP Sony gets its ass in gear)
  • LED screens at 13", 15" and 17"
  • 2-3 x USB ports, 1 x Firewire 1600(?) port, DVI port
  • 3-4 hours of battery life
  • 4-5 lbs weight
  • 20-22 mm thick
post #137 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tailpipe View Post

Synthesis of likely specs for new range to include the following for both MacBook and MacBook Pro ranges based on rumour/ speculation on AI:

Too high-end.

Common features:
  • Aluminum enclosures
  • Larger multi-touch gesture trackpads
  • Built-in optical drive
  • Penryn/ Centrino 2 processors from 2.26GHz (up to 2.80GHz on the MBP)
  • 1 or 2GB standard up to 4GB RAM
  • 120-320GB HDD
  • LED screens
  • 2-3 x USB ports, DVI or mini DVI port
  • a little thinner, a little lighter, a little more autonomy

MBP only features:
  • Backlit keyboards
  • Penryn/ Centrino 2 processors 2.53/2.80 Ghz
  • 2GB RAM up to 4GB
  • 64-160 GB SSD option
  • Firewire 1600 port replacing the current FW800 port (backwards compatible)
post #138 of 189
I wonder if Apple is going to remove some of the standard features in the MBP such as the DVD player? I noticed with Apple that quite often, with a new model, they sort of take away something that the previous model had. I can't wait for the day when a new model has everything that the previous model had along with new model improvements/upgrades.
post #139 of 189
I just hope the refresh is before September, so I can get it before the first school term begins.
post #140 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by wraithofwonder View Post

I understand some had bad cases, but there was a recall. Did you go in for that?

There was a battery recall. As I understand it, Apple has not recognized the case cracks as an issue and has not recalled them. I guess I missed it if it happened.
post #141 of 189
So, should I wait for the new Macbook to come out? Does anybody think there will be a relatively high jump in features and looks to justify waiting until possibly July I've read for it to release? I'm switching to a Mac and want to make sure that if I take the dive now I wont be kicking myself in in June after El Jobso unveils some uber-cool new macbook. Thoughts?

Thank you
post #142 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by brentgett View Post

So, should I wait for the new Macbook to come out? Does anybody think there will be a relatively high jump in features and looks to justify waiting until possibly July I've read for it to release? I'm switching to a Mac and want to make sure that if I take the dive now I wont be kicking myself in in June after El Jobso unveils some uber-cool new macbook. Thoughts?

Thank you

Personally, I'd wait.
post #143 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjteix View Post

That pretty much indicates that you don't know nothing about Firewire.

For general information:
http://www.1394ta.org/index.html

Latest news:
http://www.1394ta.org/Press/2008Press/april/4.8.a.htm

Well, that's true. But it still stands that, given the list of firewire consumer product implementations on the website, the average consumer will not actually encounter firewire on a day-to-day basis as they would USB or bluetooth, as many of the listed products are either higher-end or have features that the consumer would rely on professionals to configure. So, improved firewire spec on the MacBook would be a moot point. The Pro on the other hand, seems as though it could benefit from improved spec.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonadow View Post

Do you even know what you are talking about?

The Macbook does NOT require removing the case to access the hard disk. Its just

1)Remove battery.
2)Remove L-bracket.
3)Pull out hard disk.

And after the nightmare that is disassembling the entire iBook G4 just to change the hard disk, most of us here expects the ease of accessibility to inner components like RAM and hard disk to be made standard for all of Apple's notebook models.

Dont assume everyone here is rich enough to pay Apple $60+ (exclusing cost of new hard disk) just to change a hard disk.

I never assumed anything about anyone's income brackets.\
But you're right, that was a pretty stupid clout of misinformation.
post #144 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjteix View Post

That pretty much indicates that you don't know nothing about Firewire.

For general information:
http://www.1394ta.org/index.html

Latest news:
http://www.1394ta.org/Press/2008Press/april/4.8.a.htm

Just because he isn't a resident expert on Firewire doesn't demean his well-thought out list of trends. At least the dialogue was opened up and added to the overall subject matter.

It is going to be important for Apple to upgrade it's FW ports on their Professional Lines and allow their Consumer lines to be one generation behind.

The fact that we haven't seen much in the news about FireWire is due, in large part, to Apple's relationship/partnership with Intel.

Intel has a vested interest in seeing USB 3 succeeding.

Apple has a vested interest in seeing FireWire succeed without making any direct comparisons to USB 3.

FireWire will make more inroads into Engineering through being the transport for data acquisition devices and much more.

It's not sexy, but it's very useful.
post #145 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

Just because he isn't a resident expert on Firewire doesn't demean his well-thought out list of trends. At least the dialogue was opened up and added to the overall subject matter.

Waffle911 was the one making "statements" about Firewire:
Quote:
9. Firewire 800/3200? Are you serious? Firewire is a dying breed. It failed to be picked up by the rest of the industry and is now limited in use mostly to Macs...

without knowing much about the subject as he confessed later on.

I simply offer him some basic reading on the subject. That doesn't demean anything, just puts the guy back on track. We were talking about the MacBook and the MacBook Pro, by the way, not consumer electronics or low-end devices...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

It's not sexy, but it's very useful.

Firewire's not sexy? IMO, USB is the utilitarian protocol. Not sexy at all.
post #146 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by brentgett View Post

So, should I wait for the new Macbook to come out? Does anybody think there will be a relatively high jump in features and looks to justify waiting until possibly July I've read for it to release? I'm switching to a Mac and want to make sure that if I take the dive now I wont be kicking myself in in June after El Jobso unveils some uber-cool new macbook. Thoughts?

Thank you

I switched from PCs to Macs a few months ago having had an abortive effort last year when an overheating and failing MBP put me off. I know use a Mac Pro running Bootcamp etc. so I get the best of both worlds. I also got a new MBP when the Penryn update came out only to find that it made an annoying noise due to a fan failure. I sent that back thinking that perhaps I should wait again as the MBPs I've had seemed to be suffering for quality control problems.

I would love to buy a black Macbook pro..where the coating was also protective like Colorware's offering but with a black keyboard. I really think they could also do a much better job of the MBP keyboard and where it is positioned. The keys feel very cheap/plastic compared those keys to the IBM Thinkpad - its keyboard is a joy to type on and the keys feel robust and far superior to the MBP. The keyboard on the MB seems better though, so I might get one of those and wait until September to see how the current hardware refresh goes.

I'll also wait until some of the portable bluray drives drop in price and improve and use an external one..hopefully Apple will be able release a bluray that I can put in the 2nd optical slot in my Mac Pro.
post #147 of 189
Dell XPS 1530
Tuxedo Black
Intel Core 2 Duo T8300
Vista Ultimate
15.4" 1920x1200 LED-backlit display
4GB RAM
320GB 5,400 RPM hard drive
256MB NVIDIA GeForce 8600GT
Intel Wireless N
Bluetooth 2.0+EDR
Fingerprint Reader
$1,745

Apple's got some catching up to do on attracting customers at this price point. Let's hope this is accomplished with the new version of the MacBook Pro.
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You think Im an arrogant [expletive] who thinks hes above the law, and I think youre a slime bucket who gets most of his facts wrong. Steve Jobs
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post #148 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by maglite View Post

..hopefully Apple will be able release a bluray that I can put in the 2nd optical slot in my Mac Pro.

Why wait for Apple to sell an overpriced drive? If you want one now, buy one now.
post #149 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by sc_markt View Post

I wonder if Apple is going to remove some of the standard features in the MBP such as the DVD player?

I highly doubt this as the MBP is Apple's 'powerhouse' laptop, and it would be shooting itself in the foot without an optical drive.

I think that it will be quite a few more years before we see the removal of optical drives across the line on the laptops.
post #150 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjteix View Post

Waffle911 was the one making "statements" about Firewire:


without knowing much about the subject as he confessed later on.

I simply offer him some basic reading on the subject. That doesn't demean anything, just puts the guy back on track. We were talking about the MacBook and the MacBook Pro, by the way, not consumer electronics or low-end devices...



Firewire's not sexy? IMO, USB is the utilitarian protocol. Not sexy at all.

We know FireWire is the sexier protocol and more expansive, but it's uses through non-promotion are making it appear as less sexy.

Perception often belies Reality.
post #151 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bregalad View Post

I know I'm a dinosaur. Everything is supposed to be wireless. I'm supposed to network wirelessly, print wirelessly, back up wirelessly, even KB and mouse wirelessly. I'm supposed to sell or give away my old hardware instead of accumulating 4 external FireWire drives and 2 USB drives. I'll probably go to my grave hoping Apple releases a consumer priced mini tower. C'est la vie.

I'm an evolved dinosaur then. I went from 2 laptop systems from 1998-2006 back to a desktop in 2006. I loved the portability but the trade offs were large at that time. I now have a buying strategy: every 3-5 years I buy a new Mac, in 2001 it was a laptop, 2006 desktop. I'm alternating between laptops and desktops: 2009 laptop, 2012 desktop... until the world ends.

I have ot say Apple has rarely let me down in their designs. The laptops as getting better with each version apple innovates, and those little innovations really add up: mag safe, built in camera, magnetic latch, built in FW 800, each. Leopard has a few GUI problems that Tiger didn't, but it does a lot of things right ]...
post #152 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by DHagan4755 View Post

Dell XPS 1530
Tuxedo Black
Intel Core 2 Duo T8300
Vista Ultimate
15.4" 1920x1200 LED-backlit display
4GB RAM
320GB 5,400 RPM hard drive
256MB NVIDIA GeForce 8600GT
Intel Wireless N
Bluetooth 2.0+EDR
Fingerprint Reader
$1,745

Apple's got some catching up to do on attracting customers at this price point. Let's hope this is accomplished with the new version of the MacBook Pro.

shit, if only macs had fingerprint readers, apple would have 100% market share.
post #153 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnathan View Post

shit, if only macs had fingerprint readers, apple would have 100% market share.

On the back cover of the current issue of MacWorld, there is an advert for a Mac fingerprint reader. Yeah, I know, you were being sarcastic.
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post #154 of 189
So...what are the chances the new 17" MacBook Pros will be able to get at least 4 hours of battery life with the screen brightness turned all the way up?

Laptop screens are already so dim compared to desktop screens the way it is, and if I want more than 2 hours of battery life from my first-gen 17" MacBook Pro, I have to run the screen brightness at 50%. How does the currently-optional LED backlit display fair?
post #155 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by waffle911 View Post

If you give the "chicklet" keyboard enough time to get used to it, you'll never want to go back.

I completely agree. I was in the Apple store today, typing on a Macbook Air. The keyboard is delightfully light and responsive. Although many people like the keyboard on the current Macbook Pro, I find that it is too "soft"not the sort of keyboard that makes for EMPHATIC writing. It's a silly point to make, I know, but that's how it strikes me. I'll be buying a new Macbook Pro if it comes with the new keyboard.
post #156 of 189
Is it safe to assume that both these updates will be shipping by mid July, to accommodate those students in need of a college laptop?
post #157 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThinkDifferent View Post

Is it safe to assume that both these updates will be shipping by mid July, to accommodate those students in need of a college laptop?

I'd say that's a safe bet.
post #158 of 189
The introduction date on the graphic is wrong for the PowerBook G4 - I got my 17inch PBG4 in January 2003. Time to update your graphic.
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post #159 of 189
Anyone hear any more info about when these will be released? I am definitely waiting for the refresh to buy, but am getting impatient!!! ;-)
post #160 of 189
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