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Apple notebook lines to see major design changes, sources say - Page 2

post #41 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd051572 View Post

Why mess with perfection?

Because perfection does not exist.

The current design, however beautiful, is not completely perfect.
The button on the front for example. It might look look like a nice touch but woman, especially the ones with the long finger nails (I know they should just cut them off) find it rather clumsy, I my self (no I don't have long finger nails and no I don't cross-dress in my free time ) find it awkward as well. The Mag Latch is much better. Again it would give the machine a much cleaner look, on the front as well as on the latch it self and it's easier to operate.

Than their is the case of the bottom case starting to bend outward. This is a problem I've seen countless times. It might not annoy you, but it annoys the hell out of me. Because I don't pay 2199 euro ($3500) for a flawed design. The design of the MBA is much better in this regard. Because it's topcase goes all the way to the bottom. So any imperfections would be hidden on the bottom, where I don't see them.

Oh yeah and the speaker grills are just awful I never liked those at all. It would make it a much more appealing design if they would loose those things.

Don't get me wrong, I'm quite happy with my second MBP, a 2,6 Ghz 15" with a 200Gb 7200RPM HD. But if they were to change the things I mentioned above I would trade mine in, in a heart beat.
post #42 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

I wish they'd add more options of screen sizes. A 15" macbook would be great, it doesn't make any sense that you have to go to the premium machine just to get a bigger screen. Plenty of people want a laptop with a big screen just to do basic things like internet stuff and word processing, where more advanced features aren't necessary.

My wife's PC laptop is due for replacement soon, and it's a 15" that costs less than the base macbook costs now. I'd love to switch her to a mac but the only options are downgrading to a smaller screen or paying twice (or more) what a basic 15" PC laptop costs. I'd love to go the mac route, but with the current lineup, it's practically impossible for me to justify a huge cost increase or a smaller screen.


Bingo. And no doubt there's plenty of people in the same boat.

No matter how one attempts to justify it, having to step up to the $2000 level to get a 15" screen is nuts. Some would say it's not nuts for Apple, who profits handsomely from any and all 'overkill' purchases from that segment of consumers who have more cash than sense (though its likely that lost sales/marketshare make it a wash or a negative these days), but for the consumer who just wants what is now pretty much the average notebook screen size (15") and doesn't much care about the other MB Pro niceties, it is nuts.

Of course, apologistas will argue that some prefer the portability of a 13" screen notebook. Great. Let those who prefer it buy 13" MacBooks. Let those who want the bigger screen but don't want to cough up two grand or go used be able to buy 15" Macbooks. Choice is good.

After all, it would be pretty messed up/awful if those who prefer portability were forced to spend $2000 to get it, eh?

It ends up the same as it is now... those who really, really want a Mac notebook and the larger screen (or portability, in my example) either cough up the two grand, or settle for buying used (which doesn't help Apple's sales). Everyone else flips Steve the bird and goes and buys a PC notebook. The end.

Apple's doing well on Mac sales right now, but... the frightening thing? They could be doing even so much better, actually. So many more folks are willing to give the Mac a look-see right now. And they'll tend to buy 'em... if they're not scared off by uber-high prices for what they want. \

For notebooks, it really should be that you buy a screen size/form factor (13", 15, 17"), and then buy either the standard or Pro package to go with it. Everybody would be happy. And Apple would undoubtedly sell even more notebooks than it is now.

But I guess that'd just be too much of a win-win for Apple and us. Steve seems to be stuck in the past, which is all about fewer sales at a very high margin. Made sense when Apple was selling to a static pool of the same people (late '90s), but is a strat that can also blow up in your face (Apple during the early-mid '90s). But Steve is very conservative here, so it's going to continue to be a case of, "Want a 15" screen? Go get two thousand dollars. Thanks."

I've personally converted a lot of ppl to the Mac over the years, but the one exception I make is over this very issue.

I've had many a PC friend or acquaintance come up to me and make the exact same complaint that minderbinder is, and my response over the years has evolved from "Get a Mac notebook anyway, it's worth it!" to, "Yeah, it is totally screwed up that Apple does that. But they aren't budging, so if you really just want the 15" screen, don't care about the other MB Pro goodies and don't want to go used, I'd just save a ton of cash and go with a PC notebook."

And they usually do. And it sucks. But what're you gonna do until Apple wakes up and opens the can of Duh?









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post #43 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by markspain View Post

As for heat dissipation, I carry two postcard-sized notepads in my laptop bag, and the MB rests on these, so as to provide for more heat dissipation. At home I use, on each end, two VHS videos.

Someone finally found a use for VHS!!!
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post #44 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoDe View Post

Apple is not your garden variety computer builder and never will be. I don't know if you've been a Mac owner for long, maybe you are, but if your not. Don't hold your breath if you want Apple to be the next Dell.
Apple has always been about doing a few things very well and not do everything but poorly.

You need to lose the fanboy elitist attitude. Nobody is asking apple to be the next dell, nor to do "everything". Apple could attract more customers by strategically adding more choices of models. They've already been doing this by adding the air and the mini, and I think they should continue to do this. A "prosumer" headless model between the mini and the xeons being an obvious possibility. And for the record, I've been using macs for over fifteen years.
post #45 of 189


Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #46 of 189
Finally something interesting. Apple had become so boring to me.
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post #47 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd051572 View Post

Why mess with perfection?

Because nothing is perfect - ever.

If you haven't checked out a MBA at an Apple Store, I recommend you do so. The design is very, very sleek (and gorgeous IMO), but what's really impressive is the build quality. It's just amazing - not only surprisingly solid-feeling for a thin & light (which can be notoriously delicate) but much more solid-feeling than either a MB or MBP -- and, I suspect, less prone to the little creaks that both MB and MBPs develop over time.

The great thing about Apple is they never say ok, well, that's good enough. They're always pushing forward, trying to improve.
post #48 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

My current 17" MacBook Pro (an original 2.16Ghz) has really turned me off of laptops altogether, and I've anticipated my next computer would be a return to the iMac. The machine itself is just too hot (my keyboard is surrounded by burn marks), the battery life disappointing (my battery has been replaced once already after the computer cooked the first one to death), the wi-fi reception is half that of the consumer MacBooks, and the screen brightness/contrast leaves much to be desired. I believe many of this issues can be contributed to the design of the machine itself, and the materials utilized, which has gone unchanged since the first aluminum PowerBooks arrived in 2003. A totally revamped model, complete with new technologies like LED backlit screens becoming standard across the board, could probably alleviate many of these issues, and make the machines appear far more modern and attractive in the process.

I don't think many people are interested in replacing their MacBook Pro's with a newer model that looks exactly the same and has all the same issues.


You shouldn't paint with such a broad brush because you are wrong about the lack of re-design. It's true that the outer shell hasn't changed much but the current MacBook Pros run much cooler, have a much crisper & brighter screen, & the battery life rocks!!

By the way, I had the same model as you before & you still should be getting better battery than a Windows laptop with the standard size battery. I'd also be curious how you are gauging wireless because I never had an issue there either, not trying to pick it up from your neighbor's house are you?

A laptop isn't a desktop with a smaller form, there are always aspects of it that make it less convenient at a desk than a full desktop. The fact that you are comparing it to a desktop tells me you bought it so you could take it & flash it around in public. If you don't need the portability of a laptop don't buy one, you certainly are wasting your money if you do.
post #49 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecking View Post

Finally something interesting. Apple had become so boring to me.

Same bunch of crap from the same bunch of crappers. Now that is boring.
post #50 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustav View Post

So why is one form of fooling your eye (close proximity of red, green, and blue elements) ok, but temporal dithering is not?

Can someone answer this?

6-bit displays can under certain circumstances show some ugly banding. I've had a couple of images with a lot of chroma noise that looked horrible on my MBP but ok on my Cinema Display. It does not happen often, but when it happens it is very visible.
post #51 of 189
While I agree that the MBP could use some tweaking (the latch), I can't think of how they could make any major revisions that would improve it. My 4-year old G4 PowerBook makes my brand new work ThinkPad look like a cheap plastic toy. The bezel around the ThinkPad's screen alone makes me cringe! And my new MBP makes it look even worse!
post #52 of 189
I really like the design of my MacBook Pro Core 2 Duo 2.33. I don't necessarily want any changes made to the case. I wouldn't have minded if an SDHC slot. The only wear I've seen on my MacBook Pro is the crevice right behind he space bar. The paint is wearing off a bit on the aluminum. Other than that my MacBook Pro is holding up very well on finish and performance. Best Apple computer I've ever had.
post #53 of 189
As long as the MBP has a matte display, I dont care WHAT it looks like. The glossy trend makes me oh so worried of late. Still an updated keyboard and bigger trackpad would be a-ok with me
post #54 of 189
When is Apple going to offer a high G impact laptop?

I don't see Apple abandoning it's lineup for this MacBook AIR appeal but I do think they need to offer something more durable.

I'd love to see them compete against Panasonic and other designs in a BTO option that is both the same dimensions of the current MacBook Pro but capable of taking a serious blow.

Hell. Make the shell out of a graphite/boron composite mold for all I care.

Just make them more durable.
post #55 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

You need to lose the fanboy elitist attitude. Nobody is asking apple to be the next dell, nor to do "everything". Apple could attract more customers by strategically adding more choices of models. They've already been doing this by adding the air and the mini, and I think they should continue to do this. A "prosumer" headless model between the mini and the xeons being an obvious possibility. And for the record, I've been using macs for over fifteen years.


All true.

But, it's the same as it ever was. The instant you point out that there's some obvious things that Apple should be doing, you get accused of wanting Apple to be the next Dell, or worse, the next eMachines.

Apparently there is this "all or nothing", black-or-white attitude among a certain kind of Apple fanboi/apologista that brooks not even the slightest deviation from the Way Things Currently Areā„¢.

It would entertaining, in a morbid way, if all conversations were like that:


"Hey, y'know, universal health care might be a good idea."
"YOU COMMUNIST BASTARD!!!"

"I like the car, but I wish it came with the 16" tires standard."
"WHAT THE F*** DO YOU WANT, A F***ING ROLLS-ROYCE?!!!?!"

"Could I have fruit instead of Fries, please?"
"WHERE DO YOU THINK YOU ARE, THE FOUR SEASONS?!? GET THE F*** OUT!"





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post #56 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustav View Post

If they were burn marks, you would have gone to the hospital for having burned hands and sued Apple for lots of money. What's more likely is that oil from your hands and dirt accumulated there and stuck, and then you scraped too aggressively. I don't doubt the paint came off due to excess heat, but I doubt there are actual burn marks.

They are burn marks. They come from the bad batteries and overheating. Apple was quick to replace my top-case when I brought it in; I had wondered why at the time but didn't ask any questions. Between a new battery and the new top cover I don't seem to have the same problem anymore on my 17".

But... I am disappointed with battery life. Mine is from within a month after original release, and I burned through one battery and now alternate between two units. I have fewer than 70 cycles on each battery and barely get two hours.

The only thing sufficiently compelling for me to buy another MBP is lighter with longer battery time, or I like the OP will move to a desktop as my next computer.
post #57 of 189
It's great to have further confirmation of an updated MacBook and MacBook Pro line-up in the works.

Given that Apple will want to ride the crest of the back-to-college buying wave, I expect new machines to arrive no later than July. Hopefully, they'll be with us in June. By that, I hope they'll be shown at the WWDC.

What this proves is that Centrino 2 is much bigger news than people realise. It is a real step-up in capabilities and should lead to much better, faster wireless access as well as faster general processing for programs like iLife and Office.

I have no idea what the new enclosure will look like, but I have no doubt that it will be very sleek and functional. The MacBook Pro must surely be Apple's single most important product because of the amount of cash it generates, so they'll be bending over backwards to make the next iteration a good one.

The two big questions looming in my mind as a result of new MBs and MBPs is what will be the difference between a 15" MBP and a 13" MB, if any, if they're both made from aluminium? What will be the difference between the MB and MBA other than the exclusion of a DVD drive?

Really looking forward to seeing these products.
post #58 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

When is Apple going to offer a high G impact laptop?

This is certainly a good question. With respect to the Mac Book AIR I do wonder how much more durable that becomes with a solid state drive. Rugged high G conventional drives are available but they are expensive and offer far lower storage. Seems to me a machine built form the ground up around a Solids State drive is in order.
Quote:
I don't see Apple abandoning it's lineup for this MacBook AIR appeal but I do think they need to offer something more durable.

Yes but I see Apple here in a strange situation if the Mac Books move nearer to the AIR in configuration.

The approach I'd love to see Apple take for a rugged device would be to simply produce a Newton 2, that from the ground up is designed to be rugged.
Quote:

I'd love to see them compete against Panasonic and other designs in a BTO option that is both the same dimensions of the current MacBook Pro but capable of taking a serious blow.

Apple's products are already fairly durable with respect to the majority of the PC world. As to an Apple designed platform that mimics the strengths of the ToughBook I think it is possible and frankly at a lower cost than the Panasonic platform. It would require Apple to go with new technology throughout though to keep the cost down. That wold be a solid state drive, and OLED screen and likely an external drive. Ideally a fanless design.
Quote:

Hell. Make the shell out of a graphite/boron composite mold for all I care.

Just make them more durable.

I'd actually like to see one fully sealed so that it would be damaged by the ingress of liquids. It would be very difficult to build hardware that is 100% rugged for ever conceivable use. But a water proof device ought to be possible with the new low power processors coming along.

Dave
post #59 of 189
I think the MacBook Air is an ugly (and pointless) beast, and I love the fact that the plastic shell of the normal MacBook is so robust, which makes it great for sticking in a bag and carrying around. Our MacBook Pro on the otherhand needs to be transported in cotton wool to prevent dents, they may look pretty, but they're not very practical as a portable if you want to take them off your desk.
post #60 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpluck View Post

esata would be better.

I wouldn't be too sure of that...

http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/35302/118/
post #61 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by OptionTrader View Post

I wouldn't be too sure of that...

http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/35302/118/

That's nice, but it doesn't seem to be available much yet. While I'd love to see apple upgrade their FW800 to 3200, I'd love to se esata as well since it seems to be more common at this point.
post #62 of 189
Would love to see MacBook upgrades to aluminium and MacBook Pro upgrades to carbon and/or ceramics.
post #63 of 189
Quote:
You shouldn't paint with such a broad brush because you are wrong about the lack of re-design. It's true that the outer shell hasn't changed much but the current MacBook Pros run much cooler, have a much crisper & brighter screen, & the battery life rocks!!

I'm with you. A few weeks ago, I got my 17" LED Hi-Res Matte MBP w/7200RPM drive and maxed out the RAM via OWC. I do not regret it ONE bit, even if they were to introduce new machines tomorrow. I kept waiting until they addressed the heat issues and put in the LED on the 17", those were my last true nagging doubts. This is a proven case enclosure, the heat issues of the past have been taken care of, I work with it on my lap at home (in shorts, bare skin!) with no issues at all and battery life has been terrific. The hi-res LED screen is GORGEOUS. It's snappy as HELL. Sure I wouldn't mind having the maglatch but I'll take this tried-and-true setup over a new enclosure with lots of unknowns any day of the week.
post #64 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by wessan View Post

Would love to see MacBook upgrades to aluminium and MacBook Pro upgrades to carbon and/or ceramics.

No, what I'd prefer to see is a silver aluminum MacBook Pro with black Air-like keyboard and an aluminum regular MacBook that comes in 6 colors.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #65 of 189
My 12" PB G4 is getting very tired, and an alumium refresh of the Macbooks would make a beautiful transition.

If that did happen, I'd be curious what will happen to MBA sales if they bring a similar enclosure and the build quality (sorry folks, the current Macbooks cases are CRAP, they chip like crazy) down to the consumer line lappie.
post #66 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

No, what I'd prefer to see is a silver aluminum MacBook Pro with black Air-like keyboard and an aluminum regular MacBook that comes in 6 colors.

Well, carbon/ceramics is about reduced weight and better wireless transparency. And aluminium can also come in multiple colors, although I'm not sure about the cost of (colored) aluminium.
post #67 of 189
So does apple really need separate MB and MB Pro lines?

What if they just came up with one great case design and just differentiated by features? The more expensive machines have bigger screen, hard drive, more ram, faster processor, more ports, etc.

Just make it one line of cases, if they really want to designate some models as "pro" just create some stock configurations labeled that way. And do more of a continuum of BTO options instead of the annoying mandatory bundles of certain features.

Is there any compelling reason at this point to keep them separate, especially when both are using the same line of processors?
post #68 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by satchmo View Post

My sentiments exactly.

In fact, one might argue that the two tone MacBook Air and current iMacs are more 'tawdry' than the previous all white enclosures.

My sentiments also.

IMHO the white MacBooks and iMacs were the most attractive designs Apple has come up with. But then Apple has only to ring its bell and Pavlov's dogs start drooling on queue no matter what they're shown.

No doubt they will "discover" how ugly the steel and aluminium models are when they are replaced. Not to mention how nicely they transmit the heat into your lap.

I also don't buy that the polycarbonate designs are less ecofriendly than the cocktail of metal that takes considerable energy to manufacture. None of which should handicap it in the American market where conspicuous, wasteful consumption is a good thing and the only concern is how much that energy costs.

Now how to manufacture the permanently on Macs, twice as big as they need to be, throw in air conditioning and run them on oil with as low mileage as possible?

Are you ready for the HumveeBook?
post #69 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

aluminum regular MacBook that comes in 6 colors.

right.

that's not going to happen.
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post #70 of 189
I'm surprised that they're not talking about the MacBook Air at all - these new chipsets are much smaller than the old and use less power - hence ideal for the MBA. Of course, for back to school the MacBook would be a focus (I'm still expecting a 9-inch laptop for students based on the iPod Touch with iWork).

As for cooler - I have the next-to-latest revision of MBP and I bought a heat pad for it, seems to make a difference. I also have Fan Control installed to bump the fan speeds up more quickly when it heats up. On the road I now occassionally hit 70'c when encoding video but no longer 80'c (160'F, no longer 176'f). If you're at home, you can take the battery out too and it runs MUCH cooler. I look forward to better cooling
post #71 of 189
"shedding their plastic enclosures for ones constructed from more eco-friendly materials such as aircraft-grade aluminum and stainless steel..."

Then we can all say goodbye to the MacBook's excellent WiFi range. Someone really should set Apple's engineers down and explain to them a little physics. Radio waves don't pass through metal. Make a laptop's case out of metal, and you end up with a weirdly shaped, poor coverage pattern. It's a bit like using your cell phone inside lots of buildings.

One suggestion: Someone with access to an antenna range to put various Macs on a turntable and test their coverage. Then we'd have a standard of comparison.

Makes me glad I've got a "plastic" MacBook along with a plastic iMac.

--Mike Perry, KE7NV
post #72 of 189
They'll definitely update the Air when they're ready for it. But for a while it will be internal updates, things like speed and feature bumps. This article is more about major case redesigns.
post #73 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

They'll definitely update the Air when they're ready for it.<snip> This article is more about major case redesigns.

Good point.
post #74 of 189
Are there any wifi range/signal comparisons online between MB and MBP?

I would think with a metal case you could use the case itself as an antenna, but that's utter speculation on my part.
post #75 of 189
Wonder if Apple will front a black anodized Aluminum enclosure similar to the fronts of the black iPod classic. That might make for a very sexy, sleek machine.
post #76 of 189
Get rid of the current f'ugly iMac now! That nasty mighty mouse and racoon border have got to go. Let's not forget the ghastly cheap black apple on the back.
Is everything being designed to look like the iPhone?
post #77 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

Are there any wifi range/signal comparisons online between MB and MBP?

I would think with a metal case you could use the case itself as an antenna, but that's utter speculation on my part.

Antenna's have to be a very specific length and distance in between so I doubt using the case as an antenna would work well, but I'm not really an expert on this matter either.
post #78 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

My current 17" MacBook Pro (an original 2.16Ghz) has really turned me off of laptops altogether, and I've anticipated my next computer would be a return to the iMac. The machine itself is just too hot (my keyboard is surrounded by burn marks), the battery life disappointing (my battery has been replaced once already after the computer cooked the first one to death), the wi-fi reception is half that of the consumer MacBooks, and the screen brightness/contrast leaves much to be desired. I believe many of this issues can be contributed to the design of the machine itself, and the materials utilized, which has gone unchanged since the first aluminum PowerBooks arrived in 2003. A totally revamped model, complete with new technologies like LED backlit screens becoming standard across the board, could probably alleviate many of these issues, and make the machines appear far more modern and attractive in the process.

I don't think many people are interested in replacing their MacBook Pros with a newer model that looks exactly the same and has all the same issues.

The problems you describe can all be laid squarely at the feet of the Intel Core Duo chip. It isn't all that great. Despite the name, it doesn't actually use the "Core" micro-architecture, it's merely a minor tweak of the earlier Pentium-M.

Apple were really caught between a rock and a hard place during the Intel transition. Really, they could have done with one more PPC step before going Intel, but it just didn't exist. Whilst the Core Duo was a massive step forward in terms of computational power, it was also a significant step backwards in terms of heat generation and electrical power consumption.

Since your MacBook Pro, the CPU has evolved twice, and the motherboard chipset once. With the next revision talked about in this article, the CPU will be further refined and the motherboard chipset evolved once more. All these evolutions and refinements have delivered lower heat generation and better power efficiency. You can then buy a new MacBook Pro with confidence. I can't wait for this revision!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jd051572 View Post

Why mess with perfection?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustav View Post

At least someone here agrees. The MacBook Pro has a timeless look, definitely not dated. Any redesign is only to satisfy superficial desires for something that looks "new."

Hmmm... the current MacBook Pro isn't quite perfect. There's four things specifically which could do with being improved.

1.) The latching mechanism. Get rid of those hooks and use the magnetic latch of the MacBook and MacBook Air. More elegant, easier to manufacture, less to go wrong/break. All round, the magnetic latch is a much better design than the current MacBook Pro's.

2.) HDD replacement is very tricky. It's much easier in the MacBook and the MacBook Pro should have the same mechanism.

3.) There's not enough contrast between the colour of the keyboard keys and the keyboard backlight. The keys are light grey and the backlight is a blueish white, and the intensity of the backlight is automatically set according to the ambient light level. For some ambient light levels, the intensity of the backlight is such that it matches the key colour - making it much harder to read the keys! The MacBook Air, having black keys, doesn't suffer from this problem. The MacBook Pro keys should be black.

4.) Sticking with the keyboard, the design of the MacBook/MacBook Air/desktop keyboard is fabulous. At first it divided opinion, but it seems to becoming more and more a consensus view that the "new" keyboard design has a fantastic feel to it. It looks great, too.
it's = it is / it has, its = belonging to it.
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post #79 of 189
News flash: analysts will pick this up and claim it as their own for further proof that folks need to buy AAPL......
post #80 of 189
What will this mean for ease of service for technicians? Better or worse?
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