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Reseller's website offline following pledge of $400 Mac clone - Page 4

post #121 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

It is not your property because when you go to use the software for the first time you have to agree to the terms (remember that little button?) of use. By clicking, Apple has you in a contract of their wording.

Agreed. The question is whether Apple using this software EULA to stifle competitors on their hardware is legal. They are a monopoly on Mac compatible hardware and on the OS. Are they using their monopoly position on the OS to unfairly prevent competition to their hardware? I am not in anyway saying that they are. Just trying to explain why a company that is prevented from selling hardware that is OSX compatible might have a case to argue.

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post #122 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

Agreed. The question is whether Apple using this software EULA to stifle competitors on their hardware is legal. They are a monopoly on Mac compatible hardware and on the OS. Are they using their monopoly position on the OS to unfairly prevent competition to their hardware? I am not in anyway saying that they are. Just trying to explain why a company that is prevented from selling hardware that is OSX compatible might have a case to argue.

I dont think thats monopoly on the basis that the software is something that they create, and softwares are property rights. I think they have a legal right for limiting its software use. Even If they called it a "monopoly", the market is not big enough. Mac only owns barely a third of a percent of the computer market.
post #123 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

No, it is my engine, once I purchase it. I am sorry, but I have to take issue when someone tells me what I can do with my own property. Especially a business. Maybe that is just me.


You know of another company that sells Macs or MacOSX compatible hardware? By definition, they are a monopoly within the mac market. This does not make them an illegal monopoly, and that is an important distinction. What might make them an illegal monopoly, is if they used their monopoly to protect their market share and prevent competition. This what their prohibiting OSX on other hardware could be interpreted as.

Honda may not be able to stop you from installing their engine in a Kia. But for sure they can not condone it and must warn you that you are not allow to do it. Otherwise they can be held liable if your modified Kia goes out of control and kills somebody. This way you can't take the ignorance plead and claimed "no one told me I couldn't".


By your dweinition an Xbox 360 is a monopoly in the Xbox 360 market. A PlayStaion3 is a monopoly in the PlayStaion3 market. And a Wii is a monopoly in the Wii market. But the only thing that counts is that none of these are monolopies in the gaming console market. And Apple is not a monopoly in the computer market. Prohibiting OSX on other hardware is no more anti competitive than MS prohibiting "Halo" for PlayStation3 or Wii.
post #124 of 236
I just realize, if psystar has a "30,000 visits per second" (Appleinsider), then my mac machine with leopard must have worth more..

Btw, that stat, if it is true just justify why Macs are expensive (even the used ones). The demand is there. So why would Apple lower their price? if they do, they will lower the quality of their product and their brand equity.
post #125 of 236
btw, Apple will not pursue the "Open Computer" users in legal action because of obvious reasons. They want users to try their product. Which means, this is a free publicity for Apple. (Dont know if they need one). Like i said before, this situation just justify why Mac is expensive.

I dont know about you guys, this makes me appreciate my Mac more.
post #126 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidW View Post

Honda may not be able to stop you from installing their engine in a Kia. But for sure they can not condone it and must warn you that you are not allow to do it. Otherwise they can be held liable if your modified Kia goes out of control and kills somebody. This way you can't take the ignorance plead and claimed "no one told me I couldn't".


By your dweinition an Xbox 360 is a monopoly in the Xbox 360 market. A PlayStaion3 is a monopoly in the PlayStaion3 market. And a Wii is a monopoly in the Wii market. But the only thing that counts is that none of these are monolopies in the gaming console market. And Apple is not a monopoly in the computer market. Prohibiting OSX on other hardware is no more anti competitive than MS prohibiting "Halo" for PlayStation3 or Wii.

Agreed.
post #127 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

No, it is my engine, once I purchase it. I am sorry, but I have to take issue when someone tells me what I can do with my own property. Especially a business. Maybe that is just me.

It's a matter of contract law. Honda can certainly sue you for breach of contract if you install the engine in a Kia. They may be able to compell you to uninstall the engine.

Again, you agreed to the terms of purchase. If you didn't like the terms you should have bought your engine from elsewhere.
post #128 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidW View Post

Prohibiting OSX on other hardware is no more anti competitive than MS prohibiting "Halo" for PlayStation3 or Wii.

Exactly.
post #129 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidW View Post

Honda may not be able to stop you from installing their engine in a Kia. But for sure they can not condone it and must warn you that you are not allow to do it. Otherwise they can be held liable if your modified Kia goes out of control and kills somebody. This way you can't take the ignorance plead and claimed "no one told me I couldn't".

How in the world would they be held liable? They might be able to say you can do it, but the don't tell you that you are not allowed to do it. Again, perhaps you are ok with companies telling you how you are allowed to use your property, I am not. If I accepted the EULA, fine, that was my decision. If the EULA is found to be illegal, then it is not OK. again, maybe that is just me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidW View Post

By your dweinition an Xbox 360 is a monopoly in the Xbox 360 market. A PlayStaion3 is a monopoly in the PlayStaion3 market. And a Wii is a monopoly in the Wii market. But the only thing that counts is that none of these are monolopies in the gaming console market. And Apple is not a monopoly in the computer market. Prohibiting OSX on other hardware is no more anti competitive than MS prohibiting "Halo" for PlayStation3 or Wii.

If MS said you were only allowed to run IE and no other browser on Windows, or if they took steps, technical and legal to prevent you from running other office productivity suites, they would be investigated or sued. If they were not a monopoly, it would not be an issue. That they are a monopoly, makes it possible that they are behaving illegally.

As for the consoles, if someone else wanted to put the time and money into creating a 100% technically compatible console that was 100% legal in how it was assembled, you would be OK with MS telling you cannot run the xBox OS and games on there? Their EULA might legally prohibit it, but if someone convinces a judge that they are a monopoly and are using that monopoly to stifle competition, then they are an illegal monopoly.

I am a software developer. I understand the issue and try to look at it from both sides.

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post #130 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Exactly.

nope.

If Halo could run on a PS3, then you might have an argument. The simple fact that it cannot run on a PS3 make it a pretty lame analogy to software that can run on other hardware but is not allowed.

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post #131 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

It's a matter of contract law. Honda can certainly sue you for breach of contract if you install the engine in a Kia. They may be able to compell you to uninstall the engine.

Again, you agreed to the terms of purchase. If you didn't like the terms you should have bought your engine from elsewhere.

Or challenge the terms of the contract...

Actually, I should add, that is a little like your cable company saying you have to use their TV and DVR. Sure, you have other options for television service, no question, but your cable company is still the local monopoly in delivering cable service. But, I guess if you are ok with just saying "yes, please may I have another" you would take the attitude that that is OK..or go elsewhere. Problem is, you want cable. Guess you have no choice. It is their contract after all.

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post #132 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

Or challenge the terms of the contract...

You cannot challenge the contract ones you signed it. In the court of law, you will lose on the basis that you knowingly agreed to abide by the rule given by the company to use its software. Its like saying you have a written contract to pay me money. But you didnt. Instead you challenge the contract.
post #133 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

nope.

If Halo could run on a PS3, then you might have an argument. The simple fact that it cannot run on a PS3 make it a pretty lame analogy to software that can run on other hardware but is not allowed.

Halo could be made to run on a PS3 just as OSX can be made to run on non-Apple PCs. The difference is in the level of change required but both require modification.

What? You don't believe that MS has a contractural clause that prohibits porting Halo to other platforms just as it does with Mass Effect and other exclusives?
post #134 of 236
Quote:

Clearly, the people running Psystar have no idea what they're doing. They claim Apple is breaking anti-trust laws? Are they insane? Can I run PS3 software on my Mac? Can I run the software that controls my TiVo on a PC? These guys are dumber than a newspaper flak jacket.

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post #135 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

No, it is my engine, once I purchase it. I am sorry, but I have to take issue when someone tells me what I can do with my own property. Especially a business. Maybe that is just me.


You know of another company that sells Macs or MacOSX compatible hardware? By definition, they are a monopoly within the mac market. This does not make them an illegal monopoly, and that is an important distinction. What might make them an illegal monopoly, is if they used their monopoly to protect their market share and prevent competition. This what their prohibiting OSX on other hardware could be interpreted as.

Just so you know, when you purchase something, you do not own the technology, you purchase its right to use it. Its the same thing as you dont own your movies, cd. Thats why a lot of people say they purchase a copy of a movie, you dont owned it. If you owned the movie, then you are entitled to every cent the movie makes from selling the "copy" dvd. When you purchase the right to use it, the company has the right to take that right once you violate the term agreement.

Also, there is no such thing as mac market. its personal computer market (i think).. but in this market, there is obviously all OS (including Linux). In this market, Apple only owned less than a third. I dont think thats monopoly.
post #136 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Halo could be made to run on a PS3 just as OSX can be made to run on non-Apple PCs. The difference is in the level of change required but both require modification.

No, the difference is that OSX could run on non-Apple PC's but has been prevented from doing so through software checks and the EULA. Halo cannot run on a PS3 because it was not written to run on a PS3. Nothing to do with amount of changes required to enable it to run. OSX is compatible with PC hardware. Simple. Halo is not compatible with PS3 hardware. Simple.


Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

What? You don't believe that MS has a contractural clause that prohibits porting Halo to other platforms just as it does with Mass Effect and other exclusives?

I am sure they do and I am sure it will never be an issue as long as no one cares to challenge it. But if MS started to say you could not use xBox with a Sony TV, some might consider a legal challenge. Some (most) would go buy a PS3.

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post #137 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

No, the difference is that OSX could run on non-Apple PC's but has been prevented from doing so through software checks and the EULA. Halo cannot run on a PS3 because it was not written to run on a PS3. Nothing to do with amount of changes required to enable it to run. OSX is compatible with PC hardware. Simple. Halo is not compatible with PS3 hardware. Simple.

OS X cannot run on a PC. you have to get an emulator. Same thing with Halo3. you have to write an emulator for PS3.
post #138 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

<something about apple having a monopoly>

A monopoly is not merely the state of having control over a particular product; it also means that there is no real alternative to the monopolized product. Monopolies are thus characterized by a lack of economic competition for the good or service that they provide and a lack of viable substitute goods.

A layman definition of the parts of a word does not equal a legal definition of that word.
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post #139 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

Or challenge the terms of the contract...

Actually, I should add, that is a little like your cable company saying you have to use their TV and DVR. Sure, you have other options for television service, no question, but your cable company is still the local monopoly in delivering cable service. But, I guess if you are ok with just saying "yes, please may I have another" you would take the attitude that that is OK..or go elsewhere. Problem is, you want cable. Guess you have no choice. It is their contract after all.

Actually, they do have that clause...you want to use the Dish Network service you buy Dish network gear. You want to have digital cable you rent a cable box/dvr or a cablecard. Fortunately I have FiOS but I'd still be stuck with a cablecard rental if I wanted to use a real Tivo.
post #140 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by ros3ntan View Post

Just so you know, when you purchase something, you do not own the technology, you purchase its right to use it. Its the same thing as you dont own your movies, cd. Thats why a lot of people say they purchase a copy of a movie, you dont owned it. If you owned the movie, then you are entitled to every cent the movie makes from selling the "copy" dvd. When you purchase the right to use it, the company has the right to take that right once you violate the term agreement.

ummm...yeah. But, then it depends on what you are buying. If you buy a car, you are allowed to do with it as you please, so long as it abides local laws. You can sell it too. If you buy media, incuding software, there are more legal restrictions on what it means to own it. Irrelevant. Within the legal restrictions of what it means to 'own' your copy of software, there is a limit to what the owners of the software can do to limit your use of that software. It is a matter of what are those limits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ros3ntan View Post

Also, there is no such thing as mac market. its personal computer market (i think).. but in this market, there is obviously all OS (including Linux). In this market, Apple only owned less than a third. I dont think thats monopoly.

There is no Mac market? There are Mac retailers, Mac after market services and products, specific to the Mac software, Mac development environments, Mac customers, Mac books, Mac websites, Mac professionals and Mac Developers. If that isn't a distinct market, what is? Yes, obviously, the Mac market is a sub-market to the general PC market in most way, that is not in question. But, within the Mac market, are they a monopoly? Yes, obviously they are. Are they an illegal monopoly?

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post #141 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

No, the difference is that OSX could run on non-Apple PC's but has been prevented from doing so through software checks and the EULA. Halo cannot run on a PS3 because it was not written to run on a PS3. Nothing to do with amount of changes required to enable it to run. OSX is compatible with PC hardware. Simple. Halo is not compatible with PS3 hardware. Simple.

Btw, there is no difference between PC, PS3, XBOX, Macs. They all have an operating system. So i think the analogy does hold.
post #142 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Actually, they do have that clause...you want to use the Dish Network service you buy Dish network gear. You want to have digital cable you rent a cable box/dvr or a cablecard. Fortunately I have FiOS but I'd still be stuck with a cablecard rental if I wanted to use a real Tivo.

So, you would have the option to purchase a Tivo. Great, you then have choice. If you want to run OSX on another brand of hardware, you would still have to buy OSX from Apple, but would get to choose your hardware. Your ability to choose your own television brand and DVR means you have choice, when if you need to get the CableCard from the CableCo, just as I would have to get OSX from Apple.

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post #143 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

monopoly

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

INCONCEIVABLE!
post #144 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

A monopoly is not merely the state of having control over a particular product; it also means that there is no real alternative to the monopolized product. Monopolies are thus characterized by a lack of economic competition for the good or service that they provide and a lack of viable substitute goods.

A layman definition of the parts of a word does not equal a legal definition of that word.

Then, within the Mac market, you have competition for the hardware? You have viable substitute goods available? No, you do not. i.e. monopoly. (legal and laymen definition...) A legally defined monopoly does not make it a criminal monopoly.

Cable companies have local monopolies on cable television. You can get your television service elsewhere, but they are a legal monopoly, locally. If they engage in anti-competitive practices, that makes them illegal monopolies.

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post #145 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

There is no Mac market? There are Mac retailers, Mac after market services and products, specific to the Mac software, Mac development environments, Mac customers, Mac books, Mac websites, Mac professionals and Mac Developers. If that isn't a distinct market, what is? Yes, obviously, the Mac market is a sub-market to the general PC market in most way, that is not in question. But, within the Mac market, are they a monopoly? Yes, obviously they are. Are they an illegal monopoly?

Please, you don't understand the definition so you are not yourself any favours by continuing this thread.

By your own example, you could exchange pretty much anything you want for Mac and come to the same conclusion. A product ecosystem does not a monopoly make.
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post #146 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

ummm...yeah. But, then it depends on what you are buying. If you buy a car, you are allowed to do with it as you please, so long as it abides local laws. You can sell it too. If you buy media, incuding software, there are more legal restrictions on what it means to own it. Irrelevant. Within the legal restrictions of what it means to 'own' your copy of software, there is a limit to what the owners of the software can do to limit your use of that software. It is a matter of what are those limits.


There is no Mac market? There are Mac retailers, Mac after market services and products, specific to the Mac software, Mac development environments, Mac customers, Mac books, Mac websites, Mac professionals and Mac Developers. If that isn't a distinct market, what is? Yes, obviously, the Mac market is a sub-market to the general PC market in most way, that is not in question. But, within the Mac market, are they a monopoly? Yes, obviously they are. Are they an illegal monopoly?

same thing with cars, you are not allowed to modified the cars. If you do, you violate your warranty agreement which means you are no longer covered under the warranty.

btw, i think its better if you say Apple retailers. cause there is a MAC retailer but for make ups

I think you are confusing their business and their market. But to clarify, Apple retailers are under retailer market, which includes Best Buy, Circuit City, Sony Store and everything else in this category. So if Apple has a monopoly in Apple retail store, they are dominating Best Buy, Circuit City, Sony Store, and everything else in that market. If the retailer market has only one store, Apple store, then yes, they are monopolizing.
post #147 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

INCONCEIVABLE!

Please vinea, explain to me my wealth of options and competition available with the Mac market?

Actually, let's make it more simple. I have explained, why I think they are a monopoly within the Mac market. Your turn. Explain why they are not a monopoly within the Mac market. One assumption: you stay within the Mac market. (please don't say, buy a PC with Windows, as that sort is outside of the Mac market, which we are discussing)

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post #148 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Please, you don't understand the definition so you are not yourself any favours by continuing this thread.

By your own example, you could exchange pretty much anything you want for Mac and come to the same conclusion. A product ecosystem does not a monopoly make.

Legal definition of a monopoly:
An economic advantage held by one or more persons or companies deriving from the exclusive power to carry on a particular business or trade or to manufacture and sell a particular item, thereby suppressing competition and allowing such persons or companies to raise the price of a product or service substantially above the price that would be established by a free market.

Sound familiar?

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post #149 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by ros3ntan View Post

same thing with cars, you are not allowed to modified the cars. If you do, you violate your warranty agreement which means you are no longer covered under the warranty.

btw, i think its better if you say Apple retailers. cause there is a MAC retailer but for make ups

I think you are confusing their business and their market. But to clarify, Apple retailers are under retailer market, which includes Best Buy, Circuit City, Sony Store and everything else in this category. So if Apple has a monopoly in Apple retail store, they are dominating Best Buy, Circuit City, Sony Store, and everything else in that market. If the retailer market has only one store, Apple store, then yes, they are monopolizing.

This is not a question of warranty. at all. in any way. Or retailers. mostly.

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post #150 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


By your own example, you could exchange pretty much anything you want for Mac and come to the same conclusion. A product ecosystem does not a monopoly make.

yes, at a certain point it does make a monopoly. It doesn't make it a criminal monopoly. That depends on their actions to protect and benefit from their monopoly.

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post #151 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

Then, within the Mac market, you have competition for the hardware? You have viable substitute goods available?

Sure do.

I can put any HDD in an Make so long as it conforms to the size and connector restrictions, but these are industry standards. I can upgrade the processor so long as it's a chip that will fit, that is on Intel's head. I can buy RAM from countless sources and it will work fine so long as it has the correct number of pins.

The only part that is proprietary is the motherboard. Are you saying that Apple should ditch its entire line, and instead by off the shelf MoBos? Or are saying that they should sell their MoBo as a separate item so you can build your system and then call them complaining when it doesn't go as planned?

I tried to by the chassis for the Ariel Atom. Well, everything but the engine. It's not that I was being cheap, it's that I didn't want the GM Ecotec engine that they offer in the US. I wanted the Honda Type-R that was offered in the US and is offered in the UK. They wouldn't do it, not their policy. Does that mean they have an unfair monopoly in the giant, street legal go cart market?
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post #152 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Sure do.

I can put any HDD in an Make so long as it conforms to the size and connector restrictions, but these are industry standards. I can upgrade the processor so long as it's a chip that will fit, that is on Intel's head. I can buy RAM from countless sources and it will work fine so long as it has the correct number of pins.

The only part that is proprietary is the motherboard. Are you saying that Apple should ditch its entire line, and instead by off the shelf MoBos? Or are saying that they should sell their MoBo as a separate item so you can build your system and then call them complaining when it doesn't go as planned?

Now who is being dense? Once you buy their hardware, you have all the options you would like. You want to buy their software, how many options do you have?

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I tried to by the chassis for the Ariel Atom. Well, everything but the engine. It's not that I was being cheap, it's that I didn't want the GM Ecotec engine that they offer in the US. I wanted the Honda Type-R that was offered in the US and is offered in the UK. They wouldn't do it, not their policy. Does that mean they have an unfair monopoly in the giant, street legal go cart market?

But, would they prevent you from buying the the whole thing and putting in your own engine? Put another way, if you bought they whole Ariel Atom and then bought the Honda engine, would Honda stipulate that you cannot put it into the Ariel?

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post #153 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

But, would they prevent you from buying the the whole thing and putting in your own engine? Put another way, if you bought they whole Ariel Atom and then bought the Honda engine, would Honda stipulate that you cannot put it into the Ariel?

Just as I can I by a Mac/Atom and install XP/Type-R. In both case I'm buying something as a whole and then doing something different with it. Only one of these voids the warranty and it's not the Mac, but it both of these cases I'm buying the whoel product the way the company has decided to sell it.

You can keep going with your comments but I won't be replying to them. You do see how a layman definition and a legal definition can be different so there is really to discuss until you do.
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post #154 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Just as I can I by a Mac/Atom and install XP/Type-R. In both case I'm buying something as a whole and then doing something different with it. Only one of these voids the warranty and it's not the Mac, but it both of these cases I'm buying the whoel product the way the company has decided to sell it.

And in your analogy, you would be prohibited from buying the Honda engine from Honda, unless you also agreed to buy their whole chassis and install in it there. But, you seem unable to see that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

You can keep going with your comments but I won't be replying to them. You do see how a layman definition and a legal definition can be different so there is really to discuss until you do.

And you appear unable to see how either could be applied. ignorance is bliss, as they say.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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post #155 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

Then, within the Mac market, you have competition for the hardware? You have viable substitute goods available? No, you do not. i.e. monopoly. (legal and laymen definition...) A legally defined monopoly does not make it a criminal monopoly.

Cable companies have local monopolies on cable television. You can get your television service elsewhere, but they are a legal monopoly, locally. If they engage in anti-competitive practices, that makes them illegal monopolies.

Based on what you said Toyota have monopoly over Camry because they don't allow everyone else to make a camry! GM have monopoly over Suburban because they don't allow Ford to make one! Panasonic have a monopoly over Viera TVs because they don't allow anyone else to manufacture one!! Please...

So I guess you believe Windows have monopoly over Windows market

Based on your definition, all the patents, copyrights, and trademarks are illegal because they allow one entity to control whatever product/method they spend time and money developing.
post #156 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

Based on what you said Toyota have monopoly over Camry because they don't allow everyone else to make a camry! GM have monopoly over Suburban because they don't allow Ford to make one! Panasonic have a monopoly over Viera TVs because they don't allow anyone else to manufacture one!! Please...

Way to completely miss the point....


Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

So I guess you believe Windows have monopoly over Windows market

No, because Windows is not a company. Microsoft is. Please...

oh and if you didn't notice a while ago, MS was found to be an illegal monopoly. They were using their control of Windows to hinder competition from other browsers. Manufacturers were barred from substituting other browsers. On Windows. Not on Linux. Not on Macs. They used their control of Windows to stifle other browsers for Windows.

Apple uses their control of OSX to stifle competition from compatible hardware assemblers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

Based on your definition, all the patents, copyrights, and trademarks are illegal because they allow one entity to control whatever product/method they spend time and money developing.

Did I say they were illegal? Make shit up much?

If however, they use their dominance over one product to stifle competition of another, within a market place, then they are a monopoly.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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post #157 of 236
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post #158 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidW View Post


By your dweinition an Xbox 360 is a monopoly in the Xbox 360 market. A PlayStaion3 is a monopoly in the PlayStaion3 market. And a Wii is a monopoly in the Wii market. But the only thing that counts is that none of these are monolopies in the gaming console market. And Apple is not a monopoly in the computer market. Prohibiting OSX on other hardware is no more anti competitive than MS prohibiting "Halo" for PlayStation3 or Wii.

Your analogy doesn't hold. MS doesn't prohibit Halo for PS3 or Wii - it just doesn't give the rights to any PS3 or Wii developers. And it is a big difference, similar to a musician deciding not to release their album on 8-track or SACD.

A better analogy would be if you could stick a normal Xbox 360 Halo disc (OSX) into a PS3 (generic computer) and have it work with a few minor problems. Then have Microsoft(Apple) try to prevent/sue users who do it, or prevent/sue retailers who sell the 360 Halo disc (OSX) with a PS3 system (generic computer).


Do we also need to mention that Apple encourages people to install Windows on their computers, and in fact uses it in their advertising as a selling point? Wouldn't it be a bit hypocritical for Apple to get pissed off at a PC manufacturer who does the same with OSX?
post #159 of 236

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply
post #160 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

Way to completely miss the point....



No, because Windows is not a company. Microsoft is. Please...

oh and if you didn't notice a while ago, MS was found to be an illegal monopoly. They were using their control of Windows to hinder competition from other browsers. Manufacturers were barred from substituting other browsers. On Windows. Not on Linux. Not on Macs. They used their control of Windows to stifle other browsers for Windows.

Apple uses their control of OSX to stifle competition from compatible hardware assemblers.


Did I say they were illegal? Make shit up much?

If however, they use their dominance over one product to stifle competition of another, within a market place, then they are a monopoly.

Monopoly is illegal. You have been crying "Apple has monopoly over Mac Market" I did not make anything up, anyone who reads your post will see that. Mac OS is a software and software have copyrights (you may want to look up the definition of copyright). As the owner of a software, you specify how your software shall be used (an operating system or not) plain and simple.

There is nothing called "Mac Market monopoly". Mac is brand name and specific product manufactured by a specific company not a market. Mac = Apple Manufactured Hardware + Apple manufactured OS. A PC with Mac OS is not a Mac, it runs Mac OS but still not a Mac.
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