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Report waves caution at shadiness of would-be Mac clone maker - Page 2

post #41 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

As if this wasn't enough, now Steve Woz is throwing his monkey into this 3-ring circus.

Woz is to Apple the way that Jimmy Carter is to politics.

Both are irrelevant and somewhat annoying.
post #42 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

Woz is to Apple the way that Jimmy Carter is to politics.

Both are irrelevant and somewhat annoying.

Yup, and both did very good things after their 'retirements'.
Would that other ex (or soon to be ex) presidents did half as much good as Carter.
post #43 of 108
I keep my ride in the garage and work from the kitchen table. That's where the food and bevs are.
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post #44 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by trboyden View Post

Actually, only the GUI and certain other elements are Apple's IP in OS X. Most of the code is Free/Open/NetBSD which is open source software - free for anyone to use.

But it's not what they're offering to install now is it? What they're offering to install is Apple Macintosh Operating System 10.5 Leopard. So they are using Apple's IP without expressed permission.

I really don't get people who criticizing those who defend their intellectual properties. I mean, I'm a relatively green graphic designer/comic book artist... but, if I saw someone using one of my creations, fuck the lawyers, I'm getting a softball bat, and some of my bigger guy friends.
post #45 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

...or even Steve Wozniak...

Or Another Steve or some other Apple's employee with a lot of AAPL stock that's climbing up for this or another reason today. Looks suspicious
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post #46 of 108
.."and further suggests the company may be little more than one-man basement operation"

Houses in Florida usually don't have basements...they'd be in over their heads.
post #47 of 108


They shouldn't allow more orders than they can take, unless they don't really sell anything at all. So why does it allow me to add $300,000,000 dollars of stuff? Maybe now their stat counter indicated that I put that into my shopping account and they are getting giddy. Now I wonder, if I make the order will they finally have enough money to buy a building and a factory? Let's try
post #48 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaphodsplanet View Post

Clive.....THERE'S NOTHING CONTROVERSIAL ABOUT APPLE's EULA.....

DUH dude.

In order to use OSX you have to buy a MAC.... it's pretty clear and simple. This dimwit working out of his bathroom in Miami is a PUTZ with nothing to back up any of his threats, nor does he have a great "Idea" like Woz and Jobs had in their garage. I'd imagine Apple Legal already made the shit hit the fan for this LOOSER and that's why his lamo fako product is no longer on his web site.

Good Riddance

Quit smoking Pot.... You'll find it does wonders to clear up your mind!

You registered just to flame me? How pathetic.

I can guarntee your story would be different if Microsoft made computers and forced Windows users to buy their brand in order to use the OS. Then you all would be screaming "Monopoly."

While it's true that this Psystar guy has a lot to prove before he can be considered trustworthy, that doesn't render his efforts complete bunk. You said that he's working out of his [garage] but didn't have a great idea like Woz? Then why is it that Woz himself said today that he'd be interested in getting one? Certainly Woz can afford a mess of MacPros and is certainly smart enough to build his own hackintosh. Why then would he be interested in this commercialized Hackintosh? If it piqued his interest, certainly it's not simply a dismissible idea.

Perhaps you don't know your idols as well as you think you do.

-Clive
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post #49 of 108
There are no basements in Florida (well very few ) lol
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
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Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
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post #50 of 108
Wasn't my point, I was correcting your assumption that all of OS X is Apple's IP, which it is not.

Whether what this guy is doing violates Apple's IP is up to the courts to decide. With the intermingling of proprietary and open source code, there is probably enough of a gray area that Apple doesn't want to risk opening a can of worms. The only thing he is assumed to have violated is Apple's EULA, which has no legal precedent under law and may or may not be upheld by the legal system. An IP is not the same as a licensing agreement. If anything, this guy is an unauthorized reseller, of which there are many in all different kinds of industries. There is nothing illegal in that. You just can't expect the support that you would get from Apple. Not that you get any from them or any other computer manufacturer today anyways.

I think the whole idea that Apple can't license their software becuase they would then have to support all kinds of hardware is baloney. It is up to the hardware makers to make sure their stuff works with Apple or non-Apple hardware. Just because Microsoft has hand-holded the industry and is in the situation that they are in with bloated code and all, doesn't mean Apple has to take the same approach. The model for iPhone application development could equally work for clone program.

My guess is that Apple is probably working on a tower now and they are usng this as a launchpad for that endeavor. "Rather then buy that crap tower, buy the new Apple xMac".
post #51 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc OSX View Post

Apple didn't grab someone elses operating system and put it into someone elses hardware and try to flog it on a cheap template website whilst trying to trade off the name of the successful company they got the software from.

No, That's microsoft
post #52 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive At Five View Post

While it's true that this Psystar guy has a lot to prove before he can be considered trustworthy, that doesn't render his efforts complete bunk. You said that he's working out of his [garage] but didn't have a great idea like Woz? Then why is it that Woz himself said today that he'd be interested in getting one? Certainly Woz can afford a mess of MacPros and is certainly smart enough to build his own hackintosh. Why then would he be interested in this commercialized Hackintosh? If it piqued his interest, certainly it's not simply a dismissible idea.

Woz probably just wants one as a collector's item. I got to hear the guy speak once - there's no question that he did a great job of creating the original apple computer, but now he comes off as half a bubble off plumb.
post #53 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive At Five View Post

I can guarntee your story would be different if Microsoft made computers and forced Windows users to buy their brand in order to use the OS. Then you all would be screaming "Monopoly."

No, folks wouldn't because MS's OS market share would rapidly tank.

Dell, HP, etc wouldn't suddenly dissappear. They'd suddenly sell a lot more linux boxes and try to crater MS' PC sales with superior business processes wrt selling hardware.
post #54 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive At Five View Post

So it doesn't have a "true business status" but even Apple Computer Inc. started in a garage. Who knows, maybe this guy has been selling his services to set up company networks, etc, for the past few months. His website is very thorough.

Whether or not this is a "real" business hasn't been tested properly, the tests in the article are insufficient. BBB membership is a ripoff for any but the largest business, and then, a large business really doesn't need it either. I don't think being a member of a chamber of commerce is necessary to do business either. For my state, the bare minimum to be a business is a one page application to be a DBA. LLC is maybe $500, plus or minus, depending on lawyer fees.

That said, I really don't have much confidence here.
post #55 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

As if this wasn't enough, now Steve Woz is throwing his monkey into this 3-ring circus.

I didn't think Woz was having any money problems, I don't understand why the price is a consideration.
post #56 of 108
Quote:
Wasn't my point, I was correcting your assumption that all of OS X is Apple's IP, which it is not.

OS X as a whole is Apple's IP. Mach kernal, XNU, and Darwin are open source and Psystar is free to use them.

A kernal is mostly useless without a UI or API. Aqua, Carbon, Cocoa, and Core API's are most surely Apple's IP.
post #57 of 108
Wow... another great article from AppleObvious! Great job, guys!
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post #58 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

No, folks wouldn't because MS's OS market share would rapidly tank.

Dell, HP, etc wouldn't suddenly dissappear. They'd suddenly sell a lot more linux boxes and try to crater MS' PC sales with superior business processes wrt selling hardware.

MS's market share is irrelevant. If they were to announce tomorrow that they would move to this market arrangement, would they be allowed to? Or would they be considered a monopoly? That is the question.

And don't even try to convince me there would be a mass exodus to Linux. Until the feuding Lunix flavors can "get their ducks in a row" Linux will never become a mainstrem OS.

-Clive
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post #59 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc OSX View Post

Apple didn't grab someone elses operating system and put it into someone elses hardware and try to flog it on a cheap template website whilst trying to trade off the name of the successful company they got the software from.

No, but Compaq basically did it to IBM. I think Compaq had more than a few employees, but likely less than 10.

IAMIQ78
post #60 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Whether or not this is a "real" business hasn't been tested properly, the tests in the article are insufficient. BBB membership is a ripoff for any but the largest business, and then, a large business really doesn't need it either. I don't think being a member of a chamber of commerce is necessary to do business either. For my state, the bare minimum to be a business is a one page application to be a DBA. LLC is maybe $500, plus or minus, depending on lawyer fees.

That said, I really don't have much confidence here.

Should the test really be whether it's NOT a real business? Isn't the burden of proof on this company? So far there's no evidence that they have conducted any business of any kind, much less shipped even a single machine.

Sorry, but I'm not willing to give them the benefit of the doubt just yet, while the things in the article don't definitively prove that this business is bogus, they cast a HUGE amount of doubt about it. Really, are the mac news sites supposed to take seriously any clown who puts up a website? I say no. I'll take them a tiny bit more seriously when we've heard that they've shipped one of these machines with OSX installed. So when is that going to happen?

I think all the news sites are probably regretting they ever reported this in the first place, at this point it looks like they probably got suckered on this one.
post #61 of 108
Quote:
MS's market share is irrelevant. If they were to announce tomorrow that they would move to this market arrangement, would they be allowed to? Or would they be considered a monopoly? That is the question.

Again a monopoly is not illegal. Anti-competitive abuse of a monopoly is illegal.

MS abused its monopoly to stifle and destroy competition. That is why they have been punished.
post #62 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Again a monopoly is not illegal. Anti-competitive abuse of a monopoly is illegal.

MS abused its monopoly to stifle and destroy competition. That is why they have been punished.

NO, not the "M" word again!

That last thread went off the rails real bad. Could we please avoid starting that off-topic debate all over again? Please?
post #63 of 108
Ummm, no. Repackaging an O/S with a different GUI and other components doesn't make the whole your IP. Only the parts you invented are your IP. OS X is a trademark. The parts you mentioned are indeed Apple IP. But what you are saying, as a comparison, is that just because Gnome is a GUI, they must own the IP for Linux. This is not the case.

Darwin (which is the underlying open source operating system for OS X) is perfectably usable without the OS X IP pieces. Just throw Gnome or KDE or any other GUI on it, and there you go.

Can you run Mac applications without the Apple IP parts, no of course not. But that's not the argument here.
post #64 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Update 2: AppleInsider reader Shane writes in to let us know that quick glance of the source code for Psystar.com reveals the company's webpages was slapped together with help from this web template.

You'd think for a company that wants to challenge Apple's EULA to sell computers that can run Mac OS X, that the corporation's website would have used Apple's iWeb.

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post #65 of 108
Quote:
Ummm, no. Repackaging an O/S with a different GUI and other components doesn't make the whole your IP. Only the parts you invented are your IP. OS X is a trademark. The parts you mentioned are indeed Apple IP. But what you are saying, as a comparison, is that just because Gnome is a GUI, they must own the IP for Linux. This is not the case.

I'm not sure what you are arguing but you are basically repeating the same thing I said. As I said anyone is free to use Mach kernal, XNU, or Darwin. Those are parts of OS X. But those parts are not OS X as a whole.


Quote:
Darwin (which is the underlying open source operating system for OS X) is perfectably usable without the OS X IP pieces. Just throw Gnome or KDE or any other GUI on it, and there you go.

But this isn't what Psystar is doing. This combination of code is not OS X.

Quote:
Can you run Mac applications without the Apple IP parts, no of course not. But that's not the argument here.

The whole point of this controversy is that Psystar plans to ship computers installed with OS X with intent to run Mac applications. I'm not sure what other argument you are making.
post #66 of 108
Software have copyrights. Installing a software is considered reproduction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_copyright). Therefore if someone (in this case Psystar) started installing a copy of OS X on non-Apple hardware and sell it, then it is considered a copyright violation as per the terms at which Psystar agreed upon when buying and installing the software.
post #67 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rot'nApple View Post

You'd think for a company that wants to challenge Apple's EULA to sell computers that can run Mac OS X, that the corporation's website would have used Apple's iWeb.

I guess I was out of date. Apparently it is possible to make an iWeb-based web store, with some third party help.
post #68 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I guess I was out of date. Apparently it is possible to make an iWeb-based web store, with some third party help.

Really?! Now I'm out of date. My iWeb comment was not to be taken serioously. That's why the emoticon "wink"

Where would one find those third party help apps that can help an iWeb developed website be more of a store, shopping cart, etc.?

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post #69 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive At Five View Post

MS's market share is irrelevant. If they were to announce tomorrow that they would move to this market arrangement, would they be allowed to? Or would they be considered a monopoly? That is the question.

And don't even try to convince me there would be a mass exodus to Linux. Until the feuding Lunix flavors can "get their ducks in a row" Linux will never become a mainstrem OS.

-Clive

The point isn't that the linux folks would get their ducks in a row. The point is that Dell and HP have to sell SOMETHING.

MS' marketshare means everything with respect to a monopoly. Without an 70%+ share they don't likely fall into that monopoly status anymore so why would anyone scream "Monopoly"?

What? You think that MS can instantly create the infrastructure comparable to Dell, HP, etc by waving their hands? The only scenario where this would work is if they bought Dell.

Even then, they'd be selling a LOT less OS's. The entire rest of the industry would HAVE to switch to Linux or Solaris. They'd be sinking an assload of money and developers into Wine and Linux and paying game companies to port to OpenGL/Linux.

Windows dominance would end in a couple years.

No one would scream Monopoly! Everyone would be screaming OMG Windows is SOOOO DEAD and likely cheering.
post #70 of 108
Something funny is happening on their website. I added a $399 system in my shopping basket. As I check out, my basket showing $1,659.99!!! I didn't go through the registration though. Did anyone tried that?
post #71 of 108
I don't think monopoly comes into it. Apples hardware can run any OS, so you're not being forced down any one route. By the same token, you aren't forced to buy OSX, therfore not forced to buy Apple hardware. My understanding of a monopoly is when consumer choice is removed - as in the case of Microsoft, who's OS broke if you tried to remove IE. But I could be wrong.
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post #72 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rot'nApple View Post

Really?! Now I'm out of date. My iWeb comment was not to be taken serioously. That's why the emoticon "wink"

Where would one find those third party help apps that can help an iWeb developed website be more of a store, shopping cart, etc.?

I did a Google search, some software on MacUpdate showed up. There looked like a few other good hits, but I didn't look too hard to see if it was any good.

For some reason, I'm emoticon blind. I don't know why, I just don't notice them. I didn't think it was serious, but I thought I'd take a look.
post #73 of 108
The fact that this is for selling hardware only for $399 and if you want OSX you have to pay an additional $155 and "they" install it for "free". Sadly, for them, anyone who pays attention knows that OSX costs $129. Which tells me it isn't free. At best this is a rip off. At worst it's a scam.
post #74 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pkurtd View Post

The fact that this is for selling hardware only for $399 and if you want OSX you have to pay an additional $155 and "they" install it for "free". Sadly, for them, anyone who pays attention knows that OSX costs $129. Which tells me it isn't free. At best this is a rip off. At worst it's a scam.

Amen.
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post #75 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I didn't think Woz was having any money problems, I don't understand why the price is a consideration.

How do you think the rich get rich? They don't spend THEIR money!

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post #76 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc OSX View Post

Apple didn't grab someone elses operating system and put it into someone elses hardware and try to flog it on a cheap template website whilst trying to trade off the name of the successful company they got the software from.

I am an apple zealot, have been since I was a kid going through school on the IIe but...

In fact, that is almost exactly what apple did. How easy it is to forget that the mouse, and the idea of a gui was not in fact apples technology.

Okay the flamming begin.
post #77 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive At Five View Post

You registered just to flame me? How pathetic.

I can guarntee your story would be different if Microsoft made computers and forced Windows users to buy their brand in order to use the OS. Then you all would be screaming "Monopoly."

While it's true that this Psystar guy has a lot to prove before he can be considered trustworthy, that doesn't render his efforts complete bunk. You said that he's working out of his [garage] but didn't have a great idea like Woz? Then why is it that Woz himself said today that he'd be interested in getting one? Certainly Woz can afford a mess of MacPros and is certainly smart enough to build his own hackintosh. Why then would he be interested in this commercialized Hackintosh? If it piqued his interest, certainly it's not simply a dismissible idea.

Perhaps you don't know your idols as well as you think you do.

-Clive

I didn't just sign on to flame you.... I registered eons ago but never posted because I actually work. A FT job along with another corporation I own. I just think you're brain isn't working right. You inspired me to take the time to try and make a point.

If MS wanted to adopt the Apple model then that would be their prerogative. THEY OWN THE CODE... just like Apple owns OSX... What part of that do you not understand???

You nor Psystar have no more right to STEAL Apple's property then Apple or MS has a right to steal a truly unique product idea from you or Psystar. That's what has made the USA as rich as it is. If you think that merely because something is there that you have a right to use it your logic is fatally flawed. This is not Linux, which is great, but it's not OSX.

Even if the company or person is rich it doesn't make you right to do what you're illuding to. Stealing is Stealing!!

Psystar is totally dismissible. They don't have a legal foot to stand on. He is making a weak ass attempt thieving something he has NO RIGHTS TO. And as such he deserves what he brings upon himself.

The fact that you support this shows weak character on your part. Apple owns OSX.... period!
post #78 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by skottichan View Post

I really don't get people who criticizing those who defend their intellectual properties. I mean, I'm a relatively green graphic designer/comic book artist... but, if I saw someone using one of my creations, fuck the lawyers, I'm getting a softball bat, and some of my bigger guy friends.

I understand your attitude. When I was much, much younger I heard through the grapevine that a particular producer had stolen one of my feature scripts and was trying to put a movie together with it. For some reason I went over to the guy's house with a baseball bat (I still remember it was a 34 Hank Aaron), teed off on his porchlight and got his attention. We later made an option deal after I explained that it would be much cheaper paying me, and I was a better writer for any rewrites he might need than anyone he could afford. I can't believe I did that now, but at the time it worked.
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post #79 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

Woz is to Apple the way that Jimmy Carter is to politics.

Both are irrelevant and somewhat annoying.

The fact that Woz did that proves you're totally right....LOL..... I never knew he was like that but it suddenly makes a lot of sense why he's no longer "involved" in the company.
post #80 of 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc OSX View Post

Apple didn't grab someone elses operating system and put it into someone elses hardware and try to flog it on a cheap template website whilst trying to trade off the name of the successful company they got the software from.

Didn't B. Gates sell someone else's OS to IBM? He did pay around $50 k for it, but he didn't build it.
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