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Apple orders aluminum 13-inch MacBook shells, 3G iPhone chips - Page 3

post #81 of 150
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Originally Posted by matt_s View Post

That's true, and I've already mentioned that here - the switcher who are buying up the laptops recently - spurring sales, a great thing for us stockholders - have not come back yet to buy their 2nd, or 3rd, or 4th Mac laptop.

In my case, I started with a 165, went to 180C, had a Duo, a 1400c, a 3400c, a Wall Street, a Lombard, followed by a Pismo; then a Ti PowerBook, then an Al PowerBook G4, then an Aluminum Intel, then another Aluminum Intel, then another Aluminum Intel, then lastly, a BlackBook. In between, over the years, I bought my daughters a combined 14 various Pismo's, Clamshells and iBooks.

So, I have a right to complain!

You go back and you look at that list of purchases from Apple and what jumps out at you are the fantastic design changes over the years... the 180C had a cool and rugged body, the Duo2300 was so utilitarian and the dock was the cool thing; the 1400 looked like a baby 3400, the Wall Street had the very cool black body, the follow-on models were different, thinner, keyboards were different colors; the iBooks were a new look (well, when first introduced) and kept changing from clamshells to what we have today (you know, before Apple stopped designing laptop looks) - although here as well, the line has not changed much from G4 to Intel.

Then the Ti came out, and while it looked cool, it was probably the worst Mac laptop I ever owned in terms of reliability. The body flexed so much that if you picked it up the wrong way, you could shut it down by twisting the frame.

When I saw the first aluminum PowerBook G4, I thought to myself, "man, that's cool looking, I gotta get me one of those." I haven't been able to say that about a Mac laptop for more than half a decade. I miss that!

That was essentially the last time Apple introduced a laptop that didn't look like the laptop that came before it. There were 7 speed bumps just to the PowerBook G4 15" - and all models looked exactly alike.

My God, I'm just so tired of this... but that's because I'm a repeat customer, and Apple's new switcher group of customers who are driving their sales haven't come back yet for their second helping.

Why wait 'til they do?

It isn't really a legit complaint though. You're asking for what Apple has been critized for doing over the past few years, which is paying more attention to what their machines look like on the outside, than what they have on the inside. You want to make a fashion statement, even if you think it's only for your own eyes.

The only reason why I get annoyed at not knowing what will happen with a case change, is if I've purchased a machine, only to find it's been drastically changed three months later. To whit, I hate buying the last of the last generation. But, a majot case redesign usually, but not always means a major change in the interior as well.

You should wait until later this year when Nehalem is moved into the line on the Mac Pro side, and possibly, early next year when it moves elsewhere. That will likely be the choice. It's possible we will see case changes earlier for the MB, but not for anything else.
post #82 of 150
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Originally Posted by ShawnJ View Post

I don't know.

Apple does what it can. Notebook design is a mature category at this point. Apple has contributed (1) magnetic latches (although the latchless magnetic design would be nice on the next MBP revision); (2) backlit keyboard with ambient lighting sensors; (3) large multi-touch trackpad; (4) integrated isight camera; (5) magnetic power-cord; (6) slot-loading drives; (7) sturdy, low-standing hinge design; (8) thin form-factors; (9) next generation display backlights; (10) Sudden Motion Sensor.

Even the MacBook Air, Apple's most revolutionary notebook product in years, is only "evolutionary" because technology has evolved to the point where Apple could reduce the thinness of the device. I don't see notebook design changing all that much for the foreseeable future.

What you're looking for, it seems, is a revolutionary new product type.

Your response is very thoughtful, thank you. But I think you may be confusing features with design.

Over these many years of stultified laptop design, Apple has elected to add features and benefits to the product line but has kept the exact same body and color.

If the latch is magnetic or not, the PowerBook and/or the MacBook Pro looks just like it did before the new latch as it does after the new latch.

Even the MacBook Air looks just like the MBP product line. Why do we all have to have the exact same looking laptops? It's like we have some corporate uniform or something.

I don't want anything revolutionary, that's not what I'm asking for. All I'm asking for is something bare bones simple to do. A different color maybe. Something - anything new and different. All I want is for Apple to get off their lazy designing butts and give us something new. A new look. No more silver shit, please!
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post #83 of 150
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Originally Posted by matt_s View Post

I've added a lot here. Unlike you, I'm not looking for allies, I could care less if anyone agrees with me or not.

All I want is a Mac laptop that doesn't look exactly like the Mac laptop I bought before that Mac laptop, and exactly like the one I bought before that one, and exactly like the one I bought before that one.

You see, when I buy a new laptop, I'd like to think I'm actually buying a new laptop for my $3000, and not the same old same old same old thing we've all been force fed for the many years that have dragged on for this never ending product line.

I'm not sure I understand what the problem is. You know that the machine has been upgraded, updated, rejuvenated, etc, several times. That's what matters isn't it?

The more often Apple changes cases, the more it costs them, and guess who pays?

Are you really more interested in a machine looking different than being a better machine?
post #84 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by matt_s View Post

I've added a lot here. Unlike you, I'm not looking for allies, I could care less if anyone agrees with me or not.

All I want is a Mac laptop that doesn't look exactly like the Mac laptop I bought before that Mac laptop, and exactly like the one I bought before that one, and exactly like the one I bought before that one.

You see, when I buy a new laptop, I'd like to think I'm actually buying a new laptop for my $3000, and not the same old same old same old thing we've all been force fed for the many years that have dragged on for this never ending product line.

I see, you want something that shows off that you have a new Mac but care little for the new technology inside.

There are plenty of things you can do to make it different:
— TechShell - adds protection and a colour to your notebook
— Paint it like your favourite car - but watch out for Ferrari and Lambo, as people might think you have an Acer
— Laser etching - not terribly expensive and can yield some nifty designs
— Carbon fiber sticky paper - this will give you machine a poor carbon fiber look. On the plus side, you still get to retain the rigidity of aluminum at that thickness
— Have a new case custom made - this can be quite expensive
— Stick the internals of a modern Mac into the shell of something old - classic mods are popular these days and can get you some coin on eBay when you sell it
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post #85 of 150
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Originally Posted by matt_s View Post

Your response is very thoughtful, thank you. But I think you may be confusing features with design.

Over these many years of stultified laptop design, Apple has elected to add features and benefits to the product line but has kept the exact same body and color.

If the latch is magnetic or not, the PowerBook and/or the MacBook Pro looks just like it did before the new latch as it does after the new latch.

Even the MacBook Air looks just like the MBP product line. Why do we all have to have the exact same looking laptops? It's like we have some corporate uniform or something.

I don't want anything revolutionary, that's not what I'm asking for. All I'm asking for is something bare bones simple to do. A different color maybe. Something - anything new and different. All I want is for Apple to get off their lazy designing butts and give us something new. A new look. No more silver shit, please!

You still haven't given a real reason for this other than you're tired of it, and that the WiFi reception is not quire as good (which has been improving with each revision), which is not much of a reason.

As I've mentioned earlier, when a design has reached a certain level, it's difficult to find something much different that's not only better, but even as good. I'm sure Apple is working on it, but I surely hope it's not because they want it to LOOK different. It must be an improvement in function, reliability, etc. Looks should come last at this point, as the cases look very good now.
post #86 of 150
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Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I'm not sure I understand what the problem is. You know that the machine has been upgraded, updated, rejuvenated, etc, several times. That's what matters isn't it?

The more often Apple changes cases, the more it costs them, and guess who pays?

Are you really more interested in a machine looking different than being a better machine?

I think some people like change for the sake of change, which is cool, I guess... but it's a fine line between fashion (which changes with the seasons) and redesigning in technology (can take longer, and one runs the risk of messing a whole line up).

Me, I think it's a sexy design the way the laptops are now (MBP's I'm talking about), and evolutionary changes are fine (especially as they keep making the interiors better and better). But some people just want a change for the sake of being different. But, as has been pointed out, the sales are pretty darn good as is, so I don't see Apple doing anything major to mess with that. There's always the possibility they design something that people don't like as much (going from the 328 Ferrari's to the 348's -- horrible transitions, and I didn't buy another new one till the 355's came out -- comes to mind) and that would effect sales.
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post #87 of 150
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Originally Posted by mzaslove View Post

I think some people like change for the sake of change, which is cool, I guess... but it's a fine line between fashion (which changes with the seasons) and redesigning in technology (can take longer, and one runs the risk of messing a whole line up).

Me, I think it's a sexy design the way the laptops are now (MBP's I'm talking about), and evolutionary changes are fine (especially as they keep making the interiors better and better). But some people just want a change for the sake of being different. But, as has been pointed out, the sales are pretty darn good as is, so I don't see Apple doing anything major to mess with that. There's always the possibility they design something that people don't like as much (going from the 328 Ferrari's to the 348's -- horrible transitions, and I didn't buy another new one till the 355's came out -- comes to mind) and that would effect sales.

We can look at one Apple fashion change that worked. The change from the while plastic iMac to the aluminum one with the glass and black bezel. That resulted in much better sales. Now the truth is that the older machines, while almost revolutionary when they first came out, got old looking fast, and looked cheap. The new ones do look much better, though some here hate them.

I can still see some messing with that design, as it's not finished.

But the MBP's are classic. Simple, with no extraneous junk. True Bauhaus design. The Air adds non functional parts to the case edges. I predict that they will disappear after a while, though we might see a bit of it elsewhere in Apple's designs for a time, though I hope not.
post #88 of 150
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Originally Posted by melgross View Post

We can look at one Apple fashion change that worked. The change from the while plastic iMac to the aluminum one with the glass and black bezel. That resulted in much better sales. Now the truth is that the older machines, while almost revolutionary when they first came out, got old looking fast, and looked cheap. The new ones do look much better, though some here hate them.

I can still see some messing with that design, as it's not finished.

But the MBP's are classic. Simple, with no extraneous junk. True Bauhaus design. The Air adds non functional parts to the case edges. I predict that they will disappear after a while, though we might see a bit of it elsewhere in Apple's designs for a time, though I hope not.

Yeah, I'm with you. I really like the MBP's looks. I can see tinkering (for good or bad going on), but I wouldn't mess with such a great design too much. But the MBA does show where they're experimenting, and as most everyone have said, that will no doubt trickle into the other laptops.

And, if Apple came up with something totally new and wonderful, I'd never complain... but change for the sake of change in design has never been something I've subscribed to. I'd much rather see them a little thinner, a little better insides, faster, etc.
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post #89 of 150
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Originally Posted by mzaslove View Post

Yeah, I'm with you. I really like the MBP's looks. I can see tinkering (for good or bad going on), but I wouldn't mess with such a great design too much. But the MBA does show where they're experimenting, and as most everyone have said, that will no doubt trickle into the other laptops.

And, if Apple came up with something totally new and wonderful, I'd never complain... but change for the sake of change in design has never been something I've subscribed to. I'd much rather see them a little thinner, a little better insides, faster, etc.

I'm happy you folks don't expect too much from Apple... that way, you'll never be disappointed.

The last 5 automobiles I bought were all different... perhaps similar brands, but they looked different. Thank heavens design still exists in that market!

The last 3 houses I purchased were all very different, and looked different. Thank heavens design still exists in that market!

The last five suits I bought all had trousers and jackets but they all looked different. I didn't buy the same grey suit over and over and over again, even if the pockets were new and improved.

The last five Mac laptops I bought - with the sole exception of the BlackBook - were different but they all looked the same, and personally, I'm tired of it.
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post #90 of 150
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Originally Posted by matt_s View Post

I'm happy you folks don't expect too much from Apple... that way, you'll never be disappointed.

The last 5 automobiles I bought were all different... perhaps similar brands, but they looked different. Thank heavens design still exists in that market!

The last 3 houses I purchased were all very different, and looked different. Thank heavens design still exists in that market!

The last five suits I bought all had trousers and jackets but they all looked different. I didn't buy the same grey suit over and over and over again, even if the pockets were new and improved.

The last five Mac laptops I bought - with the sole exception of the BlackBook - were different but they all looked the same, and personally, I'm tired of it.

That is a very, very weak argument.
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post #91 of 150
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Originally Posted by matt_s View Post

I'm happy you folks don't expect too much from Apple... that way, you'll never be disappointed.

The last 5 automobiles I bought were all different... perhaps similar brands, but they looked different. Thank heavens design still exists in that market!

The last 3 houses I purchased were all very different, and looked different. Thank heavens design still exists in that market!

The last five suits I bought all had trousers and jackets but they all looked different. I didn't buy the same grey suit over and over and over again, even if the pockets were new and improved.

The last five Mac laptops I bought - with the sole exception of the BlackBook - were different but they all looked the same, and personally, I'm tired of it.

You don't have to sound condescending about it. Not a matter of "don't expect too much," simply a different emphasis on what's important. I have nothing against you wanting change... we're just discussing a subjective call on buying decisions. You want change and it doesn't come... you don't buy. Me, when they changed the Ferrari's in a way I didn't like, I didn't buy. I completely understand that. No big deal. People are simply hazarding the guess that there may not be a gigantic change in style in the near future. But since none of us know anything truly about Apple's plans, it's all just guesswork. I'd be more than happy with a revolutionary design that I liked... but I'm quite happy with what they have now as well. My computers tend to be bought for practical purposes first (I need them to write with), and looks second (though I did buy my first PowerBook out of the sheer sexiness of the design). Each to his own.
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post #92 of 150
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Originally Posted by matt_s View Post

I'm happy you folks don't expect too much from Apple... that way, you'll never be disappointed.

The last 5 automobiles I bought were all different... perhaps similar brands, but they looked different. Thank heavens design still exists in that market!

The last 3 houses I purchased were all very different, and looked different. Thank heavens design still exists in that market!

The last five suits I bought all had trousers and jackets but they all looked different. I didn't buy the same grey suit over and over and over again, even if the pockets were new and improved.

The last five Mac laptops I bought - with the sole exception of the BlackBook - were different but they all looked the same, and personally, I'm tired of it.

You're missing the entire point.

Cars are bought mostly on fashion. Even those who say otherwise, buy their cars for the looks, and prestige, that one way or the other, they think they will get from them.

That's one reason why the car arguments normally fall flat.

As far as houses go, that's also a non starter as far as an argument goes. One thing alone kills it. Do you buy another house every year or two just to have a different look? And is it always a new, unique, design? I doubt that very much!

How you can even think to bring these up in a discussion about potable computers, is well beyond my understanding.

Why don't you just spray the case bright pink? That will get you all the attention you would want.
post #93 of 150
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Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Why don't you just spray the case bright pink? That will get you all the attention you would want.


Hee-hee-hee. That made me laugh. Believe me, in L.A. we get a lot of that... like Angelyne and her pink Corvette.
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post #94 of 150
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Originally Posted by mzaslove View Post

Hee-hee-hee. That made me laugh. Believe me, in L.A. we get a lot of that... like Angelyne and her pink Corvette.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angelyne
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post #95 of 150
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Originally Posted by mzaslove View Post

You don't have to sound condescending about it. Not a matter of "don't expect too much," simply a different emphasis on what's important. I have nothing against you wanting change... we're just discussing a subjective call on buying decisions. You want change and it doesn't come... you don't buy. Me, when they changed the Ferrari's in a way I didn't like, I didn't buy. I completely understand that. No big deal. People are simply hazarding the guess that there may not be a gigantic change in style in the near future. But since none of us know anything truly about Apple's plans, it's all just guesswork. I'd be more than happy with a revolutionary design that I liked... but I'm quite happy with what they have now as well. My computers tend to be bought for practical purposes first (I need them to write with), and looks second (though I did buy my first PowerBook out of the sheer sexiness of the design). Each to his own.

I apologize if I sounded condescending, that was not what I intended. I just get tired when folks give Apple a free pass when they've plainly sat back on their laurels. They made a great design but that was 6, 7, 8 years ago. Enough is enough. Get on with it!

Am I the only one who finds it strange that the company noted for their industrial design dishes out the same laptop design year after year after year? How is this innovative design practice? Don't confuse features with design.

If you like it - fine - no worries. Buy it, enjoy it. But that still doesn't halt the undeniable fact that the Aluminum PowerBook I bought in 2003 looks pretty much exactly like the Aluminum laptop I bought in 2004, the Aluminum laptop I bought in 2006, and all the Aluminum laptops they've introduced since then. It just goes on and on.

Doesn't anyone except me and a few others here think this is stagnant design practice? I mean, even if you love the look, you must admit it's the same look year after year after year after year after year. Ya might think that's good but still, it's the same damn warmed-over thing all the time.

Can't they think of anything different? Their slogan was "Think Different." Maybe they need to change that to "Think Same."

That's all I'm saying.
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post #96 of 150
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Originally Posted by matt_s View Post

I apologize if I sounded condescending, that was not what I intended. I just get tired when folks give Apple a free pass when they've plainly sat back on their laurels. They made a great design but that was 6, 7, 8 years ago. Enough is enough. Get on with it! ... That's all I'm saying.

'S cool, I understand. I think it gets harder and harder as Apple gets more and more successful to tempt fate with huge stylistic changes when things are going well in a line. Especially, though around for so long, when the MBP's still look so much better (to me) than the competition. Though, the iMac did change drastically, so who's to say. Now, if they made a laptop that would roll up....
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post #97 of 150
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Originally Posted by matt_s View Post

Can't they think of anything different? They're slogan was "Think Different." Maybe they need to change that to "Think Same."

They just released a notebook that has no user-changeable battery and no optical drive. It also has a Merom processor on a 22mm chip and no Ethernet port. It's meant to be very mobile. Is that not Thinking Different from the rest of the industry?

Quote:
That's all I'm saying.

You still haven't said what is wrong with the design. All you've stated is that it doesn't fell as elitist to passerby. Every year Apple adds or takes away from their machines and then we watch as the industry eventually follows suit. This is Apple we're talking about, not a failing Detroit automotive market that thinks adding fins to their automobiles will spark more sales. My notebook bag isn't made to handle a MB with fins.
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post #98 of 150
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Originally Posted by mzaslove View Post

'S cool, I understand. I think it gets harder and harder as Apple gets more and more successful to tempt fate with huge stylistic changes when things are going well in a line. Especially, though around for so long, when the MBP's still look so much better (to me) than the competition. Though, the iMac did change drastically, so who's to say. Now, if they made a laptop that would roll up....

Folks are putting words in my mouth and we all know that's unsanitary practice

A design change to alter the line's stultified look does not need to be radical or revolutionary.It doesn't need to be space age compounds. It doesn't have to be a wedge or a football. We don't need to go from one extreme to another.

Even a color change would be welcomed. Or simply make the Apple on the cover smaller, put it closer to the top. Go from a gloss to a matte finish. Anything, it's just not that hard. We don't have to look like we all have the same machine, year after year after year.

That way you could look across the coffee shop, see somebody working over there and say "Hey, he's got one of those cool, new Mac laptops! I gotta get me one of those!"

Right now, if you look out at 50 people all working on their Aluminum Mac laptops, there's no way to know if it's new or 7 years old.

To me, that's dead design. Think Same.
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post #99 of 150
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Originally Posted by mzaslove View Post

I think it gets harder and harder as Apple gets more and more successful to tempt fate with huge stylistic changes when things are going well in a line.

It is harder. We have smaller and more condensed machines. Yet we prefer a certain size in our monitor and keyboard. Aesthetically, the only thing they can do that is still functional is make it smaller and lighter, which they have done.The could remove space from the side of the keyboard and monitor but that would lessen the structural rigidity of the case.

I think the next major moves we'll see with notebooks is, first, the removal of the optical drive, and, second, the use of an OLED screen which will allow for a thinner, but more importantly reduce the battery usage. It will still be the same basic design that all notebooks have been so matt_s won't be satisfied.
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post #100 of 150
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You still haven't said what is wrong with the design. All you've stated is that it doesn't fell as elitist to passerby. Every year Apple adds or takes away from their machines and then we watch as the industry eventually follows suit. This is Apple we're talking about, not a failing Detroit automotive market that thinks adding fins to their automobiles will spark more sales. My notebook bag isn't made to handle a MB with fins.

You're confusing features with design.
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post #101 of 150
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Originally Posted by matt_s View Post

Folks are putting words in my mouth and we all know that's unsanitary practice

A design change to alter the line's stultified look does not need to be radical or revolutionary.It doesn't need to be space age compounds. It doesn't have to be a wedge or a football. We don't need to go from one extreme to another.

My bad... for some reason I thought you were calling for more than that. (Though now that you mention it a full-on football laptop would be great to bring to the beach and double to play a game of catch with when not working... or that Frisbee-shaped one. I kid... I kid....)
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post #102 of 150
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Originally Posted by mzaslove View Post

My bad... for some reason I thought you were calling for more than that. (Though now that you mention it a full-on football laptop would be great to bring to the beach and double to play a game of catch with when not working... or that Frisbee-shaped one. I kid... I kid....)

The football design is only good until you bull your way into the end zone and inadvertently spike your laptop in celebration, thereby losing Gig's of key files!!!
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post #103 of 150
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Originally Posted by matt_s View Post

The football design is only good until you bull your way into the end zone and inadvertently spike your laptop in celebration, thereby losing Gig's of key files!!!

I don't know... SSD, no optical drive, no moving parts, extra rugged case design... it could work! (Okay, we've now officially gotten too silly. I'm done.)
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post #104 of 150
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Originally Posted by matt_s View Post

I apologize if I sounded condescending, that was not what I intended. I just get tired when folks give Apple a free pass when they've plainly sat back on their laurels. They made a great design but that was 6, 7, 8 years ago. Enough is enough. Get on with it!

It's not unreasonable to like the idea of something new. It's the way you are insisting.

Quote:
Am I the only one who finds it strange that the company noted for their industrial design dishes out the same laptop design year after year after year? How is this innovative design practice? Don't confuse features with design.

It seems as though you are, here at least.

You are confusing looks with design. Have you heard of "form follows function?" Once you reach a form that seems ideal for the function, it's very difficult to improve it. I haven't seen any practical idea on this front from you.

[quote]
If you like it - fine - no worries. Buy it, enjoy it. But that still doesn't halt the undeniable fact that the Aluminum PowerBook I bought in 2003 looks pretty much exactly like the Aluminum laptop I bought in 2004, the Aluminum laptop I bought in 2006, and all the Aluminum laptops they've introduced since then. It just goes on and on.

Doesn't anyone except me and a few others here think this is stagnant design practice? I mean, even if you love the look, you must admit it's the same look year after year after year after year after year. Ya might think that's good but still, it's the same damn warmed-over thing all the time.[quote]

I thought you said you weren't looking for allies? Why does it matter that a very good design doesn't change?

Quote:
Can't they think of anything different? They're slogan was "Think Different." Maybe they need to change that to "Think Same."

That's all I'm saying.

Think different can also mean not always bowing to peope who say to change looks for no good reason, and staying with what is best. That would certainly be thinking different.
post #105 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Think different can also mean not always bowing to peope who say to change looks for no good reason, and staying with what is best. That would certainly be thinking different.

If Apple's going to be known for their great design and fashion, then I believe they should continue in that tradition.

If not, then eventually, they will not be known for that. All things change (except, of course, Mac laptop looks).

And I disagree with you, there are good reasons to change the look of your product line, otherwise, we'd all be using Intel laptops that looked just like 1400's or Pismo's.

Apple used to change their laptop looks, and then, just stopped. But they didn't stop for a year or two - they stopped for 7 or 8 years! In the electronics industry, that's almost geological time! \

I miss those days of new art, new fashion, fresh looks, wowing my co-workers with the latest, coolest new laptops on the market. No matter what is said or how it's argued or debated, the ancient look of Apple's laptop line grows older every day, and I remain weary of the silvery design. Think Same!
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post #106 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by matt_s View Post

If Apple's going to be known for their great design and fashion, then I believe they should continue in that tradition.

If not, then eventually, they will not be known for that. All things change (except, of course, Mac laptop looks).

And I disagree with you, there are good reasons to change the look of your product line, otherwise, we'd all be using Intel laptops that looked just like 1400's or Pismo's.

Apple used to change their laptop looks, and then, just stopped. But they didn't stop for a year or two - they stopped for 7 or 8 years! In the electronics industry, that's almost geological time! \

I miss those days of new art, new fashion, fresh looks, wowing my co-workers with the latest, coolest new laptops on the market. No matter what is said or how it's argued or debated, the ancient look of Apple's laptop line grows older every day, and I remain weary of the silvery design. Think Same!

Your argument holds no water unless you can provide at least one idea of how this can accomplished outside of all the other things Apple has done to further the line using technology available to us today. Go ahead and use something that is still just a glimmer in a scientists eye at this point. Or are you still holding to your previous argument that you are hear to complain about it but no offer any useful solutions?

edit: The MBA defied all previous notebook designs with a non-user changeable battery and a lack of an internal optical drive. While the lack of an optical drive is a common on small notebooks with shrunken keyboards, it is not with 13" screens and full sized keyboards.
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post #107 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Your argument holds no water unless you can provide at least one idea of how this can accomplished outside of all the other things Apple has done to further the line using technology available to us today. Go ahead and use something that is still just a glimmer in a scientists eye at this point. Or are you still holding to your previous argument that you are hear to complain about it but no offer any useful solutions?

So, you're saying that Apple's industrial design group is so bereft of ideas that they need me to design their new laptop looks?

I don't understand what it is you mean here.

They are the supplier. I am the customer. They design new stuff, I go buy it. We have a synergistic relationship.

Am I now to design and they are to buy? I do not get your logic.
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post #108 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by matt_s View Post

So, you're saying that Apple's industrial design group is so bereft of ideas that they need me to design their new laptop looks?

Having an idea isn't designing anything. I didn't ask you to come up with any physical limitations and specifications that would make your design work. I asked you tell me what you think needs to be altered; not how this feat is to be achieved.

You seem to think that they are "sitting on their laurels" then you must have conceived something that could be altered. Personally, I'd like tosee all optical drives removed from notebooks. They have gotten as small as they are going to get and hold very little data compared to modern HDDs but still take up a lot of space and force engineers to design around them.
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post #109 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Having an idea isn't designing anything. I didn't ask you to come up with any physical limitations and specifications that would make your design work. I asked you tell me what you think needs to be altered; not how this feat is to be achieved.

You seem to think that they are "sitting on their laurels" that you must have conceived something that could be altered.

I've already mentioned these multifarious times in this forum. Here you go again: Change the color. Different colors. Chrome base maybe. Change the finish. Or, leave the base silver, make the top black. Make the base black, change the top. Make the Apple on the cover smaller. Move it up. Move it left. Move it right. Change from high gloss to matte finish. Color the keyboard. Maybe even a black plastic cover and a black aluminum base. Bring out a 12" MBP, resurrecting the same old tooling used before; now it's smaller, lighter. Put a identically colored neoprene edge on the units. Make some of this BTO.

I'm sure there's a lot of guys here who could spit out changes to looks that they'd buy as well. No one would crack a sweat doing it.

It's just not that hard modifying the look of such an elderly product line. I'm not an industrial designer, I'm sure those guys that Apple pays hundreds of thousands of dollars a year to can come up with something different after 7-8 years.

How much time do they need?
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post #110 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by matt_s View Post

I've already mentioned these multifarious times in this forum. Here you go again: Change the color. Different colors. Chrome base maybe. Change the finish. Or, leave the base silver, make the top black. Make the base black, change the top. Make the Apple on the cover smaller. Move it up. Move it left. Move it right. Change from high gloss to matte finish. Color the keyboard. Maybe even a black plastic cover and a black aluminum base. Bring out a 12" MBP, resurrecting the same old tooling used before; now it's smaller, lighter. Put a identically colored neoprene edge on the units. Make some of this BTO.

I'm sure there's a lot of guys here who could spit out changes to looks that they'd buy as well. No one would crack a sweat doing it.

It's just not that hard modifying the look of such an elderly product line. I'm not an industrial designer, I'm sure those guys that Apple pays hundreds of thousands of dollars a year to can come up with something different after 7-8 years.

How much time do they need?

So you're only complaint and solution to be satisfied with Apple "Thinking Different" is a colour change? Really? You call a color or sheen to be the "Think Different" design you have been preaching on this thread. EIther way, you finally made a list and here is one of many compnaies that will solve your problem for you:
http://www.computer-choppers.com/ As for a 12" MB, that can't happen unless Apple wants to put form over function or defy the market's desire to have new standard of 16:9 screens over 4:3. A 12" display in 16:9 would be too short for viewing text comfortably. It is my opinion that this why the 12" PB has been replaced by a 13" MB/MBA.
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post #111 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

So you're only complaint and solution to be satisfied with Apple "Thinking Different" is a colour change? Really? You call a color or sheen to be the "Think Different" design you have been preaching on this thread.

It's not that hard to change the looks of something. That's exactly what Apple did to the Black MacBook (a very good seller, BTW), it's what they did to the Bronze Keyboard Lombard, it's how they differentiated models of some of the 5000 Series, the original iMac's and a number of other machines. So, it's not "my solution," as you say, instead - it's exactly what Apple themselves have done in the past.

But now, they've grown so complacent in their design practice, they can't even be bothered to do something as simple as that.

Again, I ask you: how much time do they need?
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post #112 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by matt_s View Post

If Apple's going to be known for their great design and fashion, then I believe they should continue in that tradition.

If not, then eventually, they will not be known for that. All things change (except, of course, Mac laptop looks).

And I disagree with you, there are good reasons to change the look of your product line, otherwise, we'd all be using Intel laptops that looked just like 1400's or Pismo's.

Apple used to change their laptop looks, and then, just stopped. But they didn't stop for a year or two - they stopped for 7 or 8 years! In the electronics industry, that's almost geological time! \

I don't agree with this entire proposition. It's also as though you haven't considered anything I've said at all. you're just repeating the same "I want something that looks new!" statement.

Apple's designs have evolved over the years. That's a good thing. Those old designs all had some problem that people complained about, or would break, or would be flimsey, and so on.

With the aluminum enclosures, Apple has elimunated these problems with a design that does look very good, and somewhat timeless.The only problem has been the wireless range, but, as i've said, that's been improved several times.

I also asked you to give some idea of what you think Apple should be doing to both improve the case, and make it look better to your eyes, but you haven't done that.

While I would like Apple to continue being known for great design, I want that design to mean something. Change for changes sake, which you are demanding is always a bad thing.

Quote:
I miss those days of new art, new fashion, fresh looks, wowing my co-workers with the latest, coolest new laptops on the market. No matter what is said or how it's argued or debated, the ancient look of Apple's laptop line grows older every day, and I remain weary of the silvery design. Think Same!

If that's your only reason, it isn't enough. You shold be impressing your coworkers with how well the machine works, not how cool the new design is.

Buy an Air. That looks different. Silver and all.
post #113 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by matt_s View Post

So, you're saying that Apple's industrial design group is so bereft of ideas that they need me to design their new laptop looks?

I don't understand what it is you mean here.

They are the supplier. I am the customer. They design new stuff, I go buy it. We have a synergistic relationship.

Am I now to design and they are to buy? I do not get your logic.

What we are saying, as you haven't noticed, is that it isn't Apple's design team with the problem, it's you.

Most people are more concerned withwhat's inside. The outside is there to protect it.

I'm sure that once Apple develops a new enclosure that will be better than the current one, in their view, they will move to it.

I hope they don't change their design for no engineering reason.
post #114 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Having an idea isn't designing anything. I didn't ask you to come up with any physical limitations and specifications that would make your design work. I asked you tell me what you think needs to be altered; not how this feat is to be achieved.

You seem to think that they are "sitting on their laurels" then you must have conceived something that could be altered. Personally, I'd like tosee all optical drives removed from notebooks. They have gotten as small as they are going to get and hold very little data compared to modern HDDs but still take up a lot of space and force engineers to design around them.

I would like to know what his ideas are. I'm curious as to what he thinks new cases should look like, as he doesn't like these anymore.
post #115 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by matt_s View Post

I've already mentioned these multifarious times in this forum. Here you go again: Change the color. Different colors. Chrome base maybe. Change the finish. Or, leave the base silver, make the top black. Make the base black, change the top. Make the Apple on the cover smaller. Move it up. Move it left. Move it right. Change from high gloss to matte finish. Color the keyboard. Maybe even a black plastic cover and a black aluminum base. Bring out a 12" MBP, resurrecting the same old tooling used before; now it's smaller, lighter. Put a identically colored neoprene edge on the units. Make some of this BTO.

I'm sure there's a lot of guys here who could spit out changes to looks that they'd buy as well. No one would crack a sweat doing it.

It's just not that hard modifying the look of such an elderly product line. I'm not an industrial designer, I'm sure those guys that Apple pays hundreds of thousands of dollars a year to can come up with something different after 7-8 years.

How much time do they need?

Sounds tacky. Good thing you don't work there.

I hope Apple ended those idea paths after the clamshell iBooks of multicolored fame, as well as the tie dyed iMac.
post #116 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Sounds tacky. Good thing you don't work there.

I hope Apple ended those idea paths after the clamshell iBooks of multicolored fame, as well as the tie dyed iMac.

I agree. A QWERTY keyboard and display need to be rectangle for optimal efficiency and usability so I never liked the clamshell style iBooks because it seemed to take away from having a larger screen in a smaller package. People complain that the borders on MB/MBP/MBA displays are still too large.

To each their own, at least he has plenty of ways to make his MBP a different colour.



PS: I think as Apple goes green they will make the next MB out of aluminium and will use colours that match the iPod Nanos.
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post #117 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

PS: I think as Apple goes green they will make the next MB out of aluminium and will use colours that match the iPod Nanos.

That would be a change at least, updating the elderly to something new.

And why not, OS X Finder looks just like iTunes now, the iMac looks like a gigantic iPod, so why not make the MBP look just like an overgrown iPhone?

At least it would be something different, finally!
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post #118 of 150
Apple needs to keep the styling on the MBP simple, if anything smooth it out still further. I also like the idea of tweaking the keyboard. The current MBP keyboard is slightly too soft for my liking, although I do slightly prefer the shape of the keys to the chiclets, a little more forgiving.

Also the lid on the MBP needs to open wider. It is not as comfortable to use as a MacBook simply because of how narrowly the lid opens. This is like a throwback to early laptops.

But most importantly they need to make the computer more durable and easier to work on. Paint rubs off keys. Not good. Displays go blank with firmware updates. Not good. Changing a hard drive requires dealing with 30 screws. Not good and not like the MacBook, which may be the easiest computer ever to change a hard drive on, unless you count the MacPro.

I also want Apple to continue pushing toward making the computer as quiet and as cool running as possible. They more they move in that direction the more they have a desktop replacement on their hands. Given that they don't see fit to do an affordable and reasonably powerful headless machine like the PowerMac line, it looks like this is the direction they're going -- having the laptop occupy that middle line as the desktop replacement.

I want a laptop that I can use on the desktop with a secondary monitor, in a two display setup (one on the laptop, one on the secondary one), with serious applications like Photoshop, without a lot of overheating and without a lot of fan noise making me think it's going to burn up.

I don't think with current chip technology that I am asking too much. It's just that my PowerMac is crying out for replacement. It's too noisy and too slow. And my MacBook does not quite deliver the goods on Photoshop.
post #119 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by photoeditor View Post

Also the lid on the MBP needs to open wider. It is not as comfortable to use as a MacBook simply because of how narrowly the lid opens.

This is a good point! And one of my frustrations with the current MBP design.
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post #120 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by photoeditor View Post

Apple needs to keep the styling on the MBP simple, if anything smooth it out still further. I also like the idea of tweaking the keyboard. The current MBP keyboard is slightly too soft for my liking, although I do slightly prefer the shape of the keys to the chiclets, a little more forgiving.

I thoroughly agree. I like the keyboard on my BlackBook much more than the one on my wife's new MBP 15". I've gotten really quick on the "chiclets," as you call them (great name), and the more I use this keyboard, the more I appreciate it.

Quote:
Also the lid on the MBP needs to open wider. It is not as comfortable to use as a MacBook simply because of how narrowly the lid opens. This is like a throwback to early laptops.

I couldn't travel with my Al MBP 15" any longer, I just got so tired carrying it thru airports, and it just doesn't fit well on a seat back tray. It's also super delicate, and is not a good travel companion. If my BlackBook had an improved graphics subsystem, it would be the finest laptop I've ever owned. It gets nearly 50% more wireless range than my wife's MBP. It's remarkably durable, has been all over the globe and until I installed 10.5.x, had never crashed or frozen. I've dropped it down a flight of concrete stairs at JFK airport; inadvertently sat on it on a sofa in a Paris hotel; dumped coffee on the keyboard in Melbourne, and, spilled a big dark beer on it in a bar in Petaluma. It just keeps cranking along, despite the abuse, and my powerful fat fingers clanging on the keyboard day and night.

Quote:
But most importantly they need to make the computer more durable and easier to work on. Paint rubs off keys. Not good. Displays go blank with firmware updates. Not good. Changing a hard drive requires dealing with 30 screws. Not good and not like the MacBook, which may be the easiest computer ever to change a hard drive on, unless you count the MacPro.

Paint wearing off happened to all of the Al PB G4 & Intel Al MBP's I've owned, and, paint on the keys is starting to wear off on my wife's 8 month old MBP. Scratches appear on the cover. Wear on the wrist rest areas by the mouse pad. This is simply unacceptable, especially after 7-8 years of Apple shipping the same design, and especially for a machine that cost just north of $3,000. And correct-o-mundo on the HDD changing, adding RAM & a new hard drive in my BlackBook was the easiest thing ever. I was stunned how simple it was.

Quote:
I want a laptop that I can use on the desktop with a secondary monitor, in a two display setup (one on the laptop, one on the secondary one), with serious applications like Photoshop, without a lot of overheating and without a lot of fan noise making me think it's going to burn up.

Our needs are much different. I want a laptop that's a joy to travel with. My perfect laptop would be this current BlackBook without an internal DVD drive and an improved graphics subsystem. I don't miss the lighted keyboard at all. 1394b is nice but not worth schlepping the extra pounds across the globe. I prefer the smaller footprint of the 13" book, and the lighter weight.

Improved graphics - more powerful - would enable me to connect to a wider variety of display peripherals for presentations. Sometimes, the BlackBook just doesn't have enough oomph to drive certain displays, or projectors.

The new MBA is worthless to me as a travel unit, since there's no way to swap out the battery (or less importantly, connect to a wired network while having a USB software application dongle in it's one lone port). It's the battery that's the killer decider, tho; that and the fact it almost looks exactly like every other Mac laptop since before there was dirt. It would be great if Apple introduced a true road warrior machine, travel-friendly.

And of course, if they'd just tweak the old design a bit, refresh the color or something...
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