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France's Orange may be next to cut iPhone price, eat losses - reports

post #1 of 305
Thread Starter 
Apple is in talks with its exclusive French wireless carrier, Orange, to lower the price of the iPhone in France following disappointing sales, Les Echos is reporting.

The newspaper said Apple is urging the carrier to adopt a subsidized pricing model after selling only 100,000 of the touch-screen handsets during the first four months -- a run rate just north of 825 units per day.

Although Orange's parent firm France Telecom reportedly denied that it would cut pricing, Apple's two other European wireless partners were recently compelled to instate significant cuts on their own iPhone offerings.

In a move allegedly aimed at clearing inventory of the current generation handsets ahead of 3G models, O2 this month dropped the price of the 8GB iPhone in the UK to 169 pounds from 269 pounds, while Germany's T-Mobile slashed the same model by 300 euros to 99 euros.

A report published Friday by UK's Times Online suggests that those European carriers will be forced to absorb the brunt of the cuts, which will translate into "significant losses."

"O2, which sells the phone in the UK, and T-Mobile, the German distributor, are said to have significantly overestimated the number of first version iPhones that would sell in Europe," the publication said.

The report cites Morgan Stanley analyst Katy Huberty as largely blaming the European mobile executives for the misstep, as they became over-excited as and got caught up in hype following the US iPhone launch last June:

"They had since had to take steps to shift stock on which they would now make a loss in order to clear the shelves for the new 3G iPhone, which is expected to be in greater demand in Europe than in the US because of the more advanced phone networks."

Citing its own sources, the Times also reported that Apple has placed an order with its Asian suppliers to produce 200,000 of the new 3G iPhones by the end of May, rising to 2 million - 500,000 per week - in June.

"With a four week lead time between production and placement, that would leave [Apple chief executive Steve Jobs] free to launch the device during an annual developers conference at which he usually speaks," the publication said.
post #2 of 305
The article forgets to mention the much debated notion here on AppleInsider that all the low French and European iPhone sales are due to them being purchased here in NYC due to the exchange rate difference. They need to factor all those missing AT&T phones into the picture.
Remember: The French and europeans plan their vacations around buying an iPhone!
post #3 of 305
Katy Huberty is a numpty.

The reason the iPhone has failed to sell well in Europe is because it is way too expensive for this market. And the reason for that is Apple saddled it with the baggage of it's own greed.

The only failure of the managers she chastises was their lack of guts to tell Apple where exactly they could stick it. NONE of them should have agreed to Apples greedy ways, they should have declared Europe an iPhone free zone.

The European market is predominantly pre-paid, and becoming more so at a steady rate. Apples model of dipping it's piggy snout into the call revenue stream does not fit well with a pre-paid market.

I feel sorry for the European Network operators. They have been well and truly suckered if they are having to wear the full cost of the unsold inventory discounting.

The iPhone failing in Europe so spectacularly has put a big on my face - love it!
post #4 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Remember: The French and europeans plan their vacations around buying an iPhone!

Er, no we don't.
post #5 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

The article forgets to mention the much debated notion here on AppleInsider that all the low French and European iPhone sales are due to them being purchased here in NYC due to the exchange rate difference. They need to factor all those missing AT&T phones into the picture.
Remember: The French and europeans plan their vacations around buying an iPhone!

Most of these "missing" iphones were bought up by organized businesses to be shipped to China --- not to Europe.
post #6 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post


The iPhone failing in Europe so spectacularly has put a big on my face - love it!

Don't know why you'd celebrate the so-called "failing" of the iPhone in Europe. How exactly does that benefit you, as a consumer?

More of the same baseless complaints about Apple and the iPhone: "it's too expensive!" "they're greedy!" "it's overhyped!" Simple solution for all the complainers: don't buy it. It's a choice, remember?

Obviously, for a lot of consumers, the iPhone represents a strong value. Even in France, 100,000 users have bought the dang thing.

Any way you slice it, the iPhone has been a success. In some places it's been a more spectacular success than in others--but everywhere it's been a success, in that it's one of the hottest selling new phones ever introduced in each respective market.
post #7 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Remember: The French and europeans plan their vacations around buying an iPhone!

That's not quite true. Europeans visit the U.S. to see an endless sea of strip malls. Of course, while they are there, they might stop at the AT&T Store.
post #8 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galley View Post

That's not quite true. Europeans visit the U.S. to see an endless sea of strip malls. Of course, while they are there, they might stop at the AT&T Store.

Hopefully our lovely beaches here in Florida too and our rental condo number is ....
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Use duckduckgo.com with Safari, not Google Search
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Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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post #9 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

Er, no we don't.

Hey cnocbui-totally off topic...

I'm coming to Ireland for my first time in 2 weeks! Any must-see things that most tourists don't know about as well as must-avoid things where 1,000s of tourists go? I'm staying in a small town in the Southwest. Any info is appreciated!
post #10 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankie View Post

Hey cnocbui-totally off topic...

I'm coming to Ireland for my first time in 2 weeks! Any must-see things that most tourists don't know about as well as must-avoid things where 1,000s of tourists go? I'm staying in a small town in the Southwest. Any info is appreciated!

The Guinness Brewery, The Jameson's Distillery and did I mention the Guinness Brewery?
(I know you have to pop over the border to NI)
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Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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post #11 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by slicedbread View Post

Don't know why you'd celebrate the so-called "failing" of the iPhone in Europe. How exactly does that benefit you, as a consumer?

More of the same baseless complaints about Apple and the iPhone: "it's too expensive!" "they're greedy!" "it's overhyped!" Simple solution for all the complainers: don't buy it. It's a choice, remember?

Obviously, for a lot of consumers, the iPhone represents a strong value. Even in France, 100,000 users have bought the dang thing.

Any way you slice it, the iPhone has been a success. In some places it's been a more spectacular success than in others--but everywhere it's been a success, in that it's one of the hottest selling new phones ever introduced in each respective market.

It benefits the consumer by killing the "full priced, crippled handset with a long contract" business model.

It is a choice --- and consumers have spoken.

It's not a success --- anywhere. AT&T activated 900K iphone in Q3 and then activated 900K iphones in christmas Q4. You know there is a problem when the busy christmas season did absolutely nothing to the sales number.
post #12 of 305
Quote:
The report cites Morgan Stanley analyst Katy Huberty as largely blaming the European mobile executives for the misstep, as they became over-excited as and got caught up in hype following the US iPhone launch last June


These executives are victims of Steve Jobs' Reality Distortion Field. It's a pity that phone carriers have to pay for Steve Jobs' mistakes.

post #13 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

It's not a success --- anywhere. AT&T activated 900K iphone in Q3 and then activated 900K iphones in christmas Q4. You know there is a problem when the busy christmas season did absolutely nothing to the sales number.

Surely you jest. The providers miscalculated demand. Obviously they were not thorough in their research about the actual level of customer demand in each country. In the US sales have been solid, and the next gen iPhone should put Apple back on track to meet their sales goals.

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post #14 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

Katy Huberty is a numpty.

The reason the iPhone has failed to sell well in Europe is because it is way too expensive for this market. And the reason for that is Apple saddled it with the baggage of it's own greed.

The only failure of the managers she chastises was their lack of guts to tell Apple where exactly they could stick it. NONE of them should have agreed to Apples greedy ways, they should have declared Europe an iPhone free zone.

The European market is predominantly pre-paid, and becoming more so at a steady rate. Apples model of dipping it's piggy snout into the call revenue stream does not fit well with a pre-paid market.

I feel sorry for the European Network operators. They have been well and truly suckered if they are having to wear the full cost of the unsold inventory discounting.

The iPhone failing in Europe so spectacularly has put a big on my face - love it!


You are spot on, and I agree with everything you say, except your last sentence. I am disappointed the iPhone is languishing, but this is purely down to Apple's greed. Until they fall in line with the European model, instead of the other way round, they will continue to do so.

@ slicedbread - yes, we know people have choices - "don't buy it" - but the reason people are posting here is to comment on the reasons why. It's not good enough to just say "don't buy it", otherwise how else are you going to overcome the poor sales if you don't properly analyse the reasons?

Apart from having a product that customers want (which an iPhone surely is), any marketing research for that product should identify different market conditions in any country. I had similar responsibilities for researching various overseas market territories years ago, and Apple have screwed up on this one.

I want to see the iPhone and Apple do well, but they need to make some adjustments quickly.
post #15 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Surely you jest. The providers miscalculated demand. Obviously they were not thorough in their research about the actual level of customer demand in each country. In the US sales have been solid, and the next gen iPhone should put Apple back on track to meet their sales goals.

In the US, sales have been solid --- because they were bought in the US and then shipped to China. Which means that American demand is not that great to begin with.
post #16 of 305
Wow, so much negativity toward Apple. I think the iPhone has been a success, if only from a marketing point of view. The hype aside, it's established Apple as a serious player in the high-end phone business. Now they just need to sort out their sales strategy and hardware. US consumers, with less choice in phones and a history of greater control by phone companies aren't phased by the fairly draconian terms of purchasing the iPhone. I can understand Apple trying it on with a novel model for maximising its revenue since it had such a well-received product (someone should remind cnocbui that Apple cannot be greedy since companies don't have emotions, also I think the pricing was mainly motivated by trying to maintain the phone's image as a premium product), but I think they've now established the limitations of that outside of the US. Much of the rest of the world has much more choice in phones and less inclined pay the Apple premium.

The release of the 3G phone in June will bring Apple to some sort of parity with other high-end phone manufacturers. Now Apple needs to adopt more flexible sales strategy. I think they will keep the same deal in the US given their exclusive deal with AT&T, but I can see them having a more conventional approach in the rest of the world, more tailored to the local markets. In many cases that will entail wholesale pricing and heavy subsidies without kickbacks to Apple.
post #17 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by merdhead View Post

Wow, so much negativity toward Apple. I think the iPhone has been a success, if only from a marketing point of view. The hype aside, it's established Apple as a serious player in the high-end phone business. Now they just need to sort out their sales strategy and hardware. US consumers, with less choice in phones and a history of greater control by phone companies aren't phased by the fairly draconian terms of purchasing the iPhone. I can understand Apple trying it on with a novel model for maximising its revenue since it had such a well-received product (someone should remind cnocbui that Apple cannot be greedy since companies don't have emotions, also I think the pricing was mainly motivated by trying to maintain the phone's image as a premium product), but I think they've now established the limitations of that outside of the US. Much of the rest of the world has much more choice in phones and less inclined pay the Apple premium.

The release of the 3G phone in June will bring Apple to some sort of parity with other high-end phone manufacturers. Now Apple needs to adopt more flexible sales strategy. I think they will keep the same deal in the US given their exclusive deal with AT&T, but I can see them having a more conventional approach in the rest of the world, more tailored to the local markets. In many cases that will entail wholesale pricing and heavy subsidies without kickbacks to Apple.

If O2 managed to activate 200K iphones in about 3 months --- for a population of 60 million people in England. Then it has done a little better than AT&T activating 900K iphones in the christmas quarter --- for population of 300 million people in US.

The iphone is not even a success in the US.
post #18 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by slicedbread View Post

Don't know why you'd celebrate the so-called "failing" of the iPhone in Europe. How exactly does that benefit you, as a consumer?

Schadenfreude old bean, pure schadenfreude!

No seriously, it benefits me as a consumer because if it bombs over here, Apple have three choices:

- Price it realistically, in which case I might get one.
- Take their ball and go home, in which case I lose nothing as I am not remotely interested at the current price.
- Continue as they have been, in the hope the 3G iPhone is a hit (it won't be). Again, I lose nothing and will continue to ignore the device.

So, I have nothing to gain from the staus quo, but might if Apple are forced to change their pricing.


Quote:
More of the same baseless complaints about Apple and the iPhone: "it's too expensive!" "they're greedy!" "it's overhyped!" Simple solution for all the complainers: don't buy it. It's a choice, remember?

For many users in Europe, phones are FREE. The iPhone may be great value in the US, but it isn't in the context of the European market.

We haven' been buying it! Tens of millions of us haven't - we know it is our choice and have been exercising it accordingly.

Quote:
Obviously, for a lot of consumers, the iPhone represents a strong value. Even in France, 100,000 users have bought the dang thing.

Those numbers indicate it has tanked big time. The population of France is 64 million - 100,000 is a joke!

Quote:
Any way you slice it, the iPhone has been a success. In some places it's been a more spectacular success than in others--but everywhere it's been a success, in that it's one of the hottest selling new phones ever introduced in each respective market.

Rubbish. The Nokia N95 is probably out selling the iPhone 100:1 in Europe. Sales of the iPhone in Europe have been weak and slow, not record setting.
post #19 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by ouragan View Post

These executives are victims of Steve Jobs' Reality Distortion Field. It's a pity that phone carriers have to pay for Steve Jobs' mistakes.


No, they are just stupid and greedy. If the relationship with AT&T is similar, they all had to pay wholesale to Apple, and now they are stuck with the extra inventory and they are going to lose money.

They knew that there was the possibility that they may not sell due to price, 2 year contract and 2G, they decided to ignore it. They gambled and lost. All businesses have risks.

If I sell chocolate covered maggots and you decide to distribute them and they don't sell well to your clients, is it my fault or your fault for not knowing the taste of your clients?
post #20 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

Katy Huberty is a numpty.

The reason the iPhone has failed to sell well in Europe is because it is way too expensive for this market. And the reason for that is Apple saddled it with the baggage of it's own greed.

The only failure of the managers she chastises was their lack of guts to tell Apple where exactly they could stick it. NONE of them should have agreed to Apples greedy ways, they should have declared Europe an iPhone free zone.

The European market is predominantly pre-paid, and becoming more so at a steady rate. Apples model of dipping it's piggy snout into the call revenue stream does not fit well with a pre-paid market.

I feel sorry for the European Network operators. They have been well and truly suckered if they are having to wear the full cost of the unsold inventory discounting.

The iPhone failing in Europe so spectacularly has put a big on my face - love it!

Great point. As an American currently working here in Europe and having lived here before, I can understand the European mentality better than those who simply think Apple can do no wrong. I applaud the Finnish operators that told Apple to go shove it. No 3G, no sales in Finland. Bottom line. Also, the eff'd up revenue sharing model that Apple came up with puts all the operators at risk as Nokia and SE can now demand the same. Considering Nokia probably (I do not have hard data so don't ask me for it) sells more high-end phones in a week than Apple sells iPhones in a month, the last things the operators want to do is share revenue with Nokia. Apple has a decent product. The iPhone is more iPod than phone, but it does the iPod thing pretty well. As a phone, it is truly suited for an American market that is pretty immature at the moment. A product like the iPhone will surely help bring the US carriers online with their European counterparts. Apple needs to wake up and smell the coffee. The dismal sales in Europe are an indication that branding and locking the phone is not the way to do biz here.
post #21 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

In the US, sales have been solid --- because they were bought in the US and then shipped to China. Which means that American demand is not that great to begin with.

Some phones went back to China. China is not the majority of iPhone sales. You are uninformed.

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post #22 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Some phones went back to China. China is not the majority of iPhone sales. You are uninformed.

Are you saying that T-Mobile USA is connecting the other missing million iphones onto their networks unofficially every quarter?

It doesn't matter where those missing iphones end up --- in China, or in Russia or in India --- it only matters that they are not truly American sales or American demand.
post #23 of 305
Wow just wow.
post #24 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by slicedbread View Post

Don't know why you'd celebrate the so-called "failing" of the iPhone in Europe. How exactly does that benefit you, as a consumer?

More of the same baseless complaints about Apple and the iPhone: "it's too expensive!" "they're greedy!" "it's overhyped!" Simple solution for all the complainers: don't buy it. It's a choice, remember?

Obviously, for a lot of consumers, the iPhone represents a strong value. Even in France, 100,000 users have bought the dang thing.

Any way you slice it, the iPhone has been a success. In some places it's been a more spectacular success than in others--but everywhere it's been a success, in that it's one of the hottest selling new phones ever introduced in each respective market.

So the iphone is a failure.

I can't believe some people, wanting a gadget to fail, you must have a real pitiful life.
post #25 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

Schadenfreude old bean, pure schadenfreude!

No seriously, it benefits me as a consumer because if it bombs over here, Apple have three choices:

- Price it realistically, in which case I might get one.
- Take their ball and go home, in which case I lose nothing as I am not remotely interested at the current price.
- Continue as they have been, in the hope the 3G iPhone is a hit (it won't be). Again, I lose nothing and will continue to ignore the device.

So, I have nothing to gain from the staus quo, but might if Apple are forced to change their pricing.




For many users in Europe, phones are FREE. The iPhone may be great value in the US, but it isn't in the context of the European market.

We haven' been buying it! Tens of millions of us haven't - we know it is our choice and have been exercising it accordingly.



Those numbers indicate it has tanked big time. The population of France is 64 million - 100,000 is a joke!



Rubbish. The Nokia N95 is probably out selling the iPhone 100:1 in Europe. Sales of the iPhone in Europe have been weak and slow, not record setting.

Prove your stats young man..
post #26 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adjei View Post

So the iphone is a failure.

I can't believe some people, wanting a gadget to fail, you must have a real pitiful life.

Do you want Nokia to start selling a full priced, crippled mobile phone with a long contract (with revenue sharing) --- with a brand new BB6 simlock that would take 3 years to crack?
post #27 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

Do you want Nokia to start selling a full priced, crippled mobile phone with a long contract (with revenue sharing) --- with a brand new BB6 simlock that would take 3 years to crack?

Why do I care about Nokia, I care about Apple and it's products which is why I'm on an Apple forum. I wouldn't want any Apple to fail with any of their products, same as I wouldn't want none of Nokia, RIM or any other company to fail. It helps to drive the market, the iphone doing good is good for the market, same as with Nokia doing good. Any way you want to look at it Apple with their iphone have brought something new to the game and has made a lot of companies think different, this is good for the overall market, it means we get better products. Apple may not be perfect, they choose a model with which to sell the iphone, if you don't like what Apple is doing, don't buy their products, go buy your Nokia phones, but don't come here saying you want the iphone to fail, what does the iphone failing do for you. I sure don't want it to fail, I want it to succeed, just like I want other companies to succeed so that it helps to drive the market. Apple came with a good product and the market notice which is why the iphone has a lot of buzz around, they may not sell 50 million phones or 400 million like Nokia sells but they brought a broduct people noticed. It certainly has its shortcomings but it's nowhere near a failure. How many ipods does Apple sell in France, Germany, or even in the UK. Compare that to the number of iphones they have sold over there and there won't be that much difference, could Apple be doing better, sure they would but they are doing alright. You guys would still find a way to complain even if Apple had sold 50 million iphones but it's all good.

Why is the Nokia you here praising not doing so well in the States but you don't hear them being branded a failure, their marketshare even slipped but they aren't being called a failure, this is someone who has been in the game long before Apple even stepped in. Everyone has improvements but that doesn't make them a failure:

http://www.informationweek.com/blog/...ceo_disse.html

http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/...1-24592004.htm

http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/...1-24592004.htm

Also Apple may use different models in different countries, this is their first phone, they needed to get their foot in the door and see how it is, they will evolve and improve their products. They seem to do be doing a pretty good job and have a good understanding ot the market.

"Now, are we married to this model? Will we do that everywhere? We’re not married to any business model. What we’re married to is shipping the best phone in the world […] You might find [a country] where being exclusive might not be in our best interests…we’re going to intelligently think about each one and decide what’s best for the company to do. "
post #28 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adjei View Post

Why do I care about Nokia, I care about Apple and it's products which is why I'm on an Apple forum. I wouldn't want any Apple to fail with any of their products, same as I wouldn't want none of Nokia, RIM or any other company to fail. It helps to drive the market, the iphone doing good is good for the market, same as with Nokia doing good. Any way you want to look at it Apple with their iphone have brought something new to the game and has made a lot of companies think different, this is good for the overall market, it means we get better products. Apple may not be perfect, they choose a model with which to sell the iphone, if you don't like what Apple is doing, don't buy their products, go buy your Nokia phones, but don't come here saying you want the iphone to fail, what does the iphone failing do for you. I sure don't want it to fail, I want it to succeed, just like I want other companies to succeed so that it helps to drive the market. Apple came with a good product and the market notice which is why the iphone has a lot of buzz around, they may not sell 50 million phones or 400 million like Nokia sells but they brought a broduct people noticed. It certainly has its shortcomings but it's nowhere near a failure. How many ipods does Apple sell in France, Germany, or even in the UK. Compare that to the number of iphones they have sold over there and there won't be that much difference, could Apple be doing better, sure they would but they are doing alright. You guys would still find a way to complain even if Apple had sold 50 million iphones but it's all good.

Why is the Nokia you here praising not doing so well in the States but you don't hear them being branded a failure, their marketshare even slipped but they aren't being called a failure, this is someone who has been in the game long before Apple even stepped in. Everyone has improvements but that doesn't make them a failure:

http://www.informationweek.com/blog/...ceo_disse.html

http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/...1-24592004.htm

http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/...1-24592004.htm

Don't really care about how Nokia is doing or not doing well.

But even the most diehard Apple fan have reservations on how the world would look like in the future if all the cell phone manufacturers (SE, Samsung, LG, Motorola....) ask for revenue sharing and how a monthly plan would look like.

The only good thing that came out of the iphone launch --- is teaching Americans that all those arguments about how good all those European simlocking laws are all garbage. Can't get unlocking codes from O2 or from T-Mobile Germany for the iphone. So-called "must also sell an unlocked version" law in France --- defeated by a $1200 price tag.
post #29 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankie View Post

Hey cnocbui-totally off topic...

I'm coming to Ireland for my first time in 2 weeks! Any must-see things that most tourists don't know about as well as must-avoid things where 1,000s of tourists go? I'm staying in a small town in the Southwest. Any info is appreciated!

Fáilte !

I really think the obvious tourist highlights are a must. A leisurely drive along the coast just to the west of Cork should be on the agenda. On the South west coast, the village of Kilkee is worth a visit. Obviously the cliffs of Moher, Ring of Kerry, the Burren and lakes of Kerry should be on the itinerary. They are all tourist highlights, but for very good reasons!

If you are going to venture a bit further, the Rock of Cashel in Tipperary is impressive. Connemara, north of Galway is well worth a visit. If you make it that far, the village of Cong is a lesser known jewel. Once saw a paraplegic German tourist in his wheelchair holding up a salmon he had just caught for his friend to photograph. Had a huge grin on him, he did. His arm was more muscled than my leg, I think, and it was quivering under the strain ;-)

Try not to 'do' the whole of Ireland in one trip, better to stick to one area so you don't spend all your time just getting from A to B. See the rest on subsequent trips!

Visit the pubs and ask if and when any have a 'session' on (local musicians performing traditional music) The south west is strong on traditional music.

I wouldn't worry too much about huge crowds of tourists, two weeks is well off the peak tourist season. Bring wet weather gear and warm clothes, it's spring and it IS going to rain.

Stay in B&B's, they're great. Ask those running the B&B's advice, it will be far better than mine.

We were tourists here a couple times, the third time we stayed.

I reckon the best tourist info these days is Flickr.com Grab a map and type in place names, sights, anything. What others have seen will give you a good idea of things you might want to also.

Have a great trip.
post #30 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

If O2 managed to activate 200K iphones in about 3 months --- for a population of 60 million people in England. Then it has done a little better than AT&T activating 900K iphones in the christmas quarter --- for population of 300 million people in US.

The iphone is not even a success in the US.

It's not that simple. It's not just simply sales / population. The markets are entirely different.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Adjei View Post

So the iphone is a failure.

I can't believe some people, wanting a gadget to fail, you must have a real pitiful life.

It's not really the gadget failing, but more the business model of an expensive phone, restrictive contract and expensive tariff with kickbacks to Apple. That's for the most part what Apple got wrong. The lack of 3G and certain software features is certainly part of the issue but it's more the business model.

Their strategy in the USA seems pretty good but it just doesn't translate well to Europe.
post #31 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

If O2 managed to activate 200K iphones in about 3 months --- for a population of 60 million people in England. Then it has done a little better than AT&T activating 900K iphones in the christmas quarter --- for population of 300 million people in US.

The iphone is not even a success in the US.

I have no idea why you're insisting that the iPhone is not a success. Since when is 'per head of population' a measure of success?

More to the point they've gone from selling no phones to selling 3 or 4 million in 6 months. They've rattled the existing players. They have huge hype and good reviews. The iPhone is now considered state of the art in phone software. The iPhone is a huge success. And people who own the phone are very satisfied with it.

By your measure, any phone in the same market segment made by Nokia, Sony or whoever is a miserable failure.
post #32 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adjei View Post

So the iphone is a failure.

I can't believe some people, wanting a gadget to fail, you must have a real pitiful life.

Only when the gadget is as overhyped and overrated as the iPhone.
It's also called competition. Why did blu-ray fans want HD DVD to fail and vice\\versa?
post #33 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by merdhead View Post

I have no idea why you're insisting that the iPhone is not a success.

This thread is just about European sales, where it's sold about a tenth of the US into a market that is already used to smartphones and generally has greater than 100% penetration of mobile phones.

If you're myopic enough to not see past the Statue of Liberty, then yes, the iPhone is a raging success.
post #34 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by merdhead View Post

I
And people who own the phone are very satisfied with it.
.

Especially those that paid $600 for them less than a year ago.
post #35 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

Er, no we don't.

I know you don't - I was being sarcastic because many koolaid victims here have made that insinuation left and right for months!!! Can you believe it- they actually thought all the missing iPhones were for that very reason ( the French/Europeans plan their vacations specifically around NYC to buy iPhones)! And then when the Chinese version of the missing iPhones came in, they still denied it.
post #36 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post

It's not that simple. It's not just simply sales / population. The markets are entirely different.




It's not really the gadget failing, but more the business model of an expensive phone, restrictive contract and expensive tariff with kickbacks to Apple. That's for the most part what Apple got wrong. The lack of 3G and certain software features is certainly part of the issue but it's more the business model.

Their strategy in the USA seems pretty good but it just doesn't translate well to Europe.

The lack of staggering sales of the iPhone in Europe is evidence that Apple can not simply come to Europe and proclaim that they are the saviors of mobile telephony. I use the Finnish operators again as an example. They know that between Sweden, and Finland, some of the most phone savvy customers exist. The iPhone with its 3 year old technology (minus the nice UI and OS) simply did not translate into high-tech. My friends there that have the iPhone still carry another phone for "real" telephony while using the iPhone as a back up simply because as a so-called "Smartphone" it fails miserably.
post #37 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

I know you don't - I was being sarcastic because many koolaid victims here have made that insinuation left and right for months!!! Can you believe it- they actually thought all the missing iPhones were for that very reason! And then when the Chinese version of the missing iPhones came in, they still denied it.



You just beat me to it. I missed your humorous intent, mea culpa. Actually a very nice subtle jibe that, when I have re-engaged the humour circuits

Carry on!
post #38 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by merdhead View Post

I have no idea why you're insisting that the iPhone is not a success. Since when is 'per head of population' a measure of success?

More to the point they've gone from selling no phones to selling 3 or 4 million in 6 months. They've rattled the existing players. They have huge hype and good reviews. The iPhone is now considered state of the art in phone software. The iPhone is a huge success. And people who own the phone are very satisfied with it.

By your measure, any phone in the same market segment made by Nokia, Sony or whoever is a miserable failure.

The iphone cannot be regarded as a success in the US for 3 reasons:

1) AT&T's activation numbers stalled in the christmas quarter
2) American sales numbers are not really American when 1/2 of them are shipped overseas
3) Verizon Wireless did absolulely nothing to counter the iphone and still gets better postpaid net adds than AT&T since the iphone was launched.

The only meaningful success is that the initial hype of people lining up to buy the iphone --- got 3 carriers in Europe to sign these idiotic revenue sharing deals with Apple.

You said existing players were rattled --- yet the first carrier (Verizon) Apple talked to --- refused Apple outright. Verizon did nothing to counter the iphone, no price cuts on monthly plans --- nothing. Verizon still beat the crap out of AT&T on postpaid net adds.
post #39 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

The iphone cannot be regarded as a success in the US for 3 reasons:

1) AT&T's activation numbers stalled in the christmas quarter
2) American sales numbers are not really American when 1/2 of them are shipped overseas
3) Verizon Wireless did absolulely nothing to counter the iphone and still gets better postpaid net adds than AT&T since the iphone was launched.

The only meaningful success is that the initial hype of people lining up to buy the iphone --- got 3 carriers in Europe to sign these idiotic revenue sharing deals with Apple.

You said existing players were rattled --- yet the first carrier (Verizon) Apple talked to --- refused Apple outright. Verizon did nothing to counter the iphone, no price cuts on monthly plans --- nothing. Verizon still beat the crap out of AT&T on postpaid net adds.

That's all totally irrelevant. One quarter is hardly important, especially one in which sales were poor for everyone. And what has Verizons sales versus AT&T sales got to do with anything? They sell many more phones than iPhones.

Really if you want to say the phone is a failure go ahead. But all these meaningless reasons are pretty pointless in the face of it's overwhelming stature in the market place and millions of sales. What's your problem, did an iPhone cause the death of a loved one, or are you an sad, angry loner looking for an outlet?
post #40 of 305
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Only when the gadget is as overhyped and overrated as the iPhone.
It's also called competition. Why did blu-ray fans want HD DVD to fail and vice\\versa?

So let me get it, you're here on Apple site to tell people that the iphone is a failure, i hope that helps you sleep at night.
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