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Apple quietly refreshes iMac line, now up to 3.06GHz - Page 4

post #121 of 363
4/28/08 at 1:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by acepernich@dlm.com View Post

... is finally gone.

Except in the mini and and MacBook...
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post #122 of 363
4/28/08 at 1:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by c64 View Post

Your right,I couldn't find any performance reviews on the 8800gs to do a comparison with the 2600 pro.Do they even have a 8800 gs model?

If this was going to be my main computer I would put out the extra money.I'm just tired of the usual issues with Microsoft.So i figured I'll use my pc for gaming and burning movies(14min to burn a movie with pc) and use the mac for the rest.

Some interesting stuff relating exactly to that:

http://news.softpedia.com/news/NVIDI...98-52731.shtml

http://news.softpedia.com/news/NVIDI...ls-52629.shtml

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130332

http://r800.blogspot.com/2007/12/nvi...rief-test.html
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post #123 of 363
4/28/08 at 1:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Er, no!

We're just beginning to enter the worst of the recession. It wasn't even agreed upon that we were IN a recession until last month.

By who- George W. Bush? Since when does he agree with anything that's factual? We've been in a recession at lot longer than a month- don't fool yourself.
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post #124 of 363
4/28/08 at 1:28pm
I'm sure the gloss/matte finish requests are reaching the engineers and that they are actually in the minority.
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post #125 of 363
4/28/08 at 1:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

Am I missing something?

Apple Store Australia lists the
24 iMac for 2,726.26 A$ or [2,554.32 $US]

Apple Store USA lists the
24 iMac for 2,199.00 $US or [2,347.10 A$]

for a difference of 355 $US. Obviously would include additional export/import custom declarations, shipping, distribution, marketing, overhead, etc.

According to the Australia Custom Tariff site, there is a tax of 5% still on goods coming in over $1000 A$, plus a shipping and insurance duty added?

No, mea culpa. This comes from me doing this in the wee small hours, the brain has gone all fuzzy.

I am so used to doing the conversions the other way around, when I did it for your benefit in US $ I got it arse backwards. Yes you should multiply, which gives a much more reasonable 16.14% markup which is not bad for Apple, unless they are working on a different exchange rate.

As for duties there are none and the charges you looked up were for small individual imports from non FTA countries. Apple I would presume would not be paying individual import fees on each and every item anyway.

You missed the Preferential Rates section which covers the USA as a FTA partner.

The one thing we have both not investigated is; what import fees is the USA charging? After all you need to compare like with like. No point pretending it is only Australia that has handling costs.

The same goes for marketing, etc. If the paperwork and marketing were not done in Australia then it would have to be done in the USA.
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post #126 of 363
4/28/08 at 1:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

By who- George W. Bush? Since when does he agree with anything that's factual? We've been in a recession at lot longer than a month- don't fool yourself.

I'm not talking about Bush. I'm taking about economists. We had a slowdown, which is not technically a recession. Now, we're in the beginning of a recession.

Bush would like to ignore that. You think he's going to say that this recession will last longer than most? Don't you think hes thinking about the elections and what that will do to Republicans? No, he's been trying to minimize it.
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post #127 of 363
4/28/08 at 1:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I'm not talking about Bush. I'm taking about economists. We had a slowdown, which is not technically a recession. Now, we're in the beginning of a recession.

Bush would like to ignore that. You think he's going to say that this recession will last longer than most? Don't you think hes thinking about the elections and what that will do to Republicans? No, he's been trying to minimize it.

And who controls the money, why since Jan 07, the Democratic controlled Congress.
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post #128 of 363
4/28/08 at 1:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akanbe View Post

Yeppers. I wonder if the 20" is still the same screen with the uneven brightness and other problems?

according to the specs, the screen has not changed. And they are still stating all screens are "millions"...
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post #129 of 363
4/28/08 at 1:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

I'm sure the gloss/matte finish requests are reaching the engineers and that they are actually in the minority.

It is not the engineers who are determining this, it is marketing.

How do gloss/matte finish requests go past the retail sales person who simply tells the customer "That's the way they come"?

From my encounters with Apple sales staff and the sales staff in major retail stores, this seems to be the biggest objection they field. Just as in PC shops it is can I have the PC with XP installed?

The answer to both is no, you'll just have to lump it if you want a new computer.
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post #130 of 363
4/28/08 at 1:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gastroboy View Post

It is not the engineers who are determining this, it is marketing.

How do gloss/matte finish requests go past the retail sales person who simply tells the customer "That's the way they come"?

From my encounters with Apple sales staff and the sales staff in major retail stores, this seems to be the biggest objection they field. Just as in PC shops it is can I have the PC with XP installed?

The answer to both is no, you'll just have to lump it if you want a new computer.

That's silly, marketing will market whatever the designers design. Just like they do with MacBook Pro models.
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post #131 of 363
4/28/08 at 1:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by zinfella View Post

And who controls the money, why since Jan 07, the Democratic controlled Congress.

Not really. Congress can't do anything the President won't sign. That's been their problem. He has the last word.
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post #132 of 363
4/28/08 at 1:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gastroboy View Post

It is not the engineers who are determining this, it is marketing.

How do gloss/matte finish requests go past the retail sales person who simply tells the customer "That's the way they come"?

From my encounters with Apple sales staff and the sales staff in major retail stores, this seems to be the biggest objection they field. Just as in PC shops it is can I have the PC with XP installed?

The answer to both is no, you'll just have to lump it if you want a new computer.

Actually, the supposed cutoff for XP is still a few months away, and it could still get extended again. Maybe those in sales might lie because they don't have any XP machines and thus don't want you to buy from somewhere else, or they just might not know any better.

A lot of monitors are available in matte as well.
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post #133 of 363
4/28/08 at 2:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jowie74 View Post

according to the specs, the screen has not changed. And they are still stating all screens are "millions"...

I don't even know why people are concerned about this. The likelihood that anyone will notice the difference is very small. Even for color correction, mostly, it works well.

I'm waiting to see if Apple will upgrade their pro displays. Meanwhile I bought a Samsung 245BW monitor as a placeholder since my Sony 900BW died recently.

This monitor doesn't have millions of colors either. But, when I make prints on my Canon IPF5100, and view them under my GTI Graphiclite D50 viewer, the prints match the (calibrated) screen almost exactly (accounting for the difference between emissive screens and reflective prints).

Really, too much is being made of this. The 20" models aren't going to be used for critical color work. The 24" screen does have a true 24 bit panel.
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post #134 of 363
4/28/08 at 2:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Not really. Congress can't do anything the President won't sign. That's been their problem. He has the last word.

The President doesn't have the last word. A presidential veto can be overridden by a two thirds majority vote of both the house and the senate.
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post #135 of 363
4/28/08 at 2:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I'm not talking about Bush. I'm taking about economists. We had a slowdown, which is not technically a recession. Now, we're in the beginning of a recession.

Bush would like to ignore that. You think he's going to say that this recession will last longer than most? Don't you think hes thinking about the elections and what that will do to Republicans? No, he's been trying to minimize it.


Elections don't change anything. If you are waiting for politicians to bail you out, you're going to have a long, long wait.

In my situation my original core duo 20" is just fine for surfing the web and playing videos/music so I don't need a new iMac on my kitchen table. At work, though, I do need more power for FCP, but 8 cores is a lot of money, recession or not.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #136 of 363
4/28/08 at 2:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I don't even know why people are concerned about this. The likelihood that anyone will notice the difference is very small. Even for color correction, mostly, it works well.

I'm waiting to see if Apple will upgrade their pro displays. Meanwhile I bought a Samsung 245BW monitor as a placeholder since my Sony 900BW died recently.

This monitor doesn't have millions of colors either. But, when I make prints on my Canon IPF5100, and view them under my GTI Graphiclite D50 viewer, the prints match the (calibrated) screen almost exactly (accounting for the difference between emissive screens and reflective prints).

Really, too much is being made of this. The 20" models aren't going to be used for critical color work. The 24" screen does have a true 24 bit panel.

The photography blogs are full of dissatisfied 24" iMac owners specifically because of the screen gradient problem. Apple refuses to admit the problem, but, they do exchange models that have it. Some people have done as many as 3 exchanges, and still had the problem.

Don't misunderstand, folks not into high end graphics or heavily into photography, aren't going to have an issue, but, that sure isn't everyone. We already know that Apple is looking at going to all LED displays, what we don't know is when. Maybe the next iMac upgrade, who knows?

Some of the unhappy photographers are pros and some are serious amateurs, but all demand high quality images. Screen gradient issues showing uneven light and color are an impediment to that. They think it's a VERY big issue, and it's their money .
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post #137 of 363
4/28/08 at 2:20pm
According to TG Daily, the 3.06GHz is not the X9100 or even Montevina, it's still Santa Rosa. They state it's a one-off chip for Apple. Though the other chips they list Montevina part numbers, with the 2.66GHz model numbers still oddly absent. Perhaps that is a one-off chip too to balance out the range.

•

http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/37152/135/
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #138 of 363
4/28/08 at 2:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by edwin2213 View Post

The President doesn't have the last word. A presidential veto can be overridden by a two thirds majority vote of both the house and the senate.

That's true, but it hasn't happened often recently because that means convincing those aligned with the President to "defect". Even if they're the minority, that minority is still quite strong enough to make the President's veto pen effectively the last word until he's replaced.
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post #139 of 363
4/28/08 at 2:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Elections don't change anything. If you are waiting for politicians to bail you out, you're going to have a long, long wait.

He's not saying that though, I think you're pulling things out of the discussion that's not there.
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post #140 of 363
4/28/08 at 2:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

He's not saying that though, I think you're pulling things out of the discussion that's not there.

Perhaps I should have used this quote instead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Er, no!

We're just beginning to enter the worst of the recession. It wasn't even agreed upon that we were IN a recession until last month.

The estimate is that this recession will last longer than the average 8 months for recessions that has been true since WWII. Perhaps a year. Hopefully, we will be coming out of it shortly after the election.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #141 of 363
4/28/08 at 2:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by edwin2213 View Post

The President doesn't have the last word. A presidential veto can be overridden by a two thirds majority vote of both the house and the senate.

Sure. I know that. But it almost never happens. We have almost never had a two thirds majority that would agree on anything. It's so rare an event that it can be ignored, for most usual purposes.
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post #142 of 363
4/28/08 at 2:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Elections don't change anything. If you are waiting for politicians to bail you out, you're going to have a long, long wait.

Bailing me out?

You live here too, from what I see from your location.

Anyway, that's not the point.

Quote:
In my situation my original core duo 20" is just fine for surfing the web and playing videos/music so I don't need a new iMac on my kitchen table. At work, though, I do need more power for FCP, but 8 cores is a lot of money, recession or not.

Yes, 8 cores is a lot of money even if we were not in a recession.

But there is an advantage to 8 cores. This is the first time that computers are more powerful than needed for most programs, even professional ones.

As these programs are revised over the next few years, they will use more the the present 8 core machine. This will actually allow them to work more quickly on the (then) old machine than they did when the machine and software was new.

This will enable that machine to add years to its life that otherwise, a weaker machine with fewer cores wouldn't have.

This means that the machine will have a much better ROI than a 2 or 4 core machine.

Besides. This is a capital investment for a company. There are tax advantages to buying it. In the end, the cost will be much less than you think.
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post #143 of 363
4/28/08 at 3:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by zinfella View Post

The photography blogs are full of dissatisfied 24" iMac owners specifically because of the screen gradient problem. Apple refuses to admit the problem, but, they do exchange models that have it. Some people have done as many as 3 exchanges, and still had the problem.

We bought 20 24" machines for the two photography labs in my daughters school. I've been helping the teachers with their classes. I've not noticed this problem, and I wonder where it comes from.

What blogs are you talking about, because the pro sites I'm a member of, where more than a few pro's use these machines, have had not a word of it.

Quote:
Don't misunderstand, folks not into high end graphics or heavily into photography, aren't going to have an issue, but, that sure isn't everyone. We already know that Apple is looking at going to all LED displays, what we don't know is when. Maybe the next iMac upgrade, who knows?

You mean backlit displays, right?

Quote:
Some of the unhappy photographers are pros and some are serious amateurs, but all demand high quality images. Screen gradient issues showing uneven light and color are an impediment to that. They think it's a VERY big issue, and it's their money .

As I've just said, I've not seen this issue, nor have I read about it. Please give me a link or two to check out. I would be very interested.
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post #144 of 363
4/28/08 at 3:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Perhaps I should have used this quote instead.

I think you read too much into that one too. Even if there's a power shift, it takes several months for it to mean anything more than just be a feel good effect.
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post #145 of 363
4/28/08 at 3:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Perhaps I should have used this quote instead.

He's right. you're reading something into it that I didn't say, or mean.

I'm not relating the end of the recession to the elections. It's just that economists think that the recession will end shortly after the elections, perhaps around January.

It's coincidence. Though some better economic policies would help.
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post #146 of 363
4/28/08 at 3:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by edwin2213 View Post

The President doesn't have the last word. A presidential veto can be overridden by a two thirds majority vote of both the house and the senate.

After a presidential veto, it takes 67 senators to override. So unless there are 67 democrats in the senate, the president and the republicans have all the power they need to stop any meaningful change.
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post #147 of 363
4/28/08 at 3:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Er, no!

We're just beginning to enter the worst of the recession. It wasn't even agreed upon that we were IN a recession until last month.

The estimate is that this recession will last longer than the average 8 months for recessions that has been true since WWII. Perhaps a year. Hopefully, we will be coming out of it shortly after the election.

The future is not so bright and we won't need shades. Peak oil, Google it.
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post #148 of 363
4/28/08 at 3:33pm
According to a story on MacNN, Intel has confirmed that the chips are 45nm Penryn chips with Santa Rosa chipset.

"The 3.06GHz processor and fellow chips in Apple's new iMacs are part of a special run of Intel's existing technology... Although the processors match the same core clock rates and 1,066MHz system bus speeds as those for the upcoming platform, the processors are now known to be unlisted speed grades that include special support for the faster bus speeds (up from 800MHz)...The mainboard remains based on the same "Santa Rosa" chipset as for earlier iMacs and MacBooks."

I still like what I know so far.
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post #149 of 363
4/28/08 at 3:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gastroboy View Post

The one thing we have both not investigated is; what import fees is the USA charging? After all you need to compare like with like. No point pretending it is only Australia that has handling costs.

The same goes for marketing, etc. If the paperwork and marketing were not done in Australia then it would have to be done in the USA.

There is no import fee that the USA is charging. Cost of transportation from whereever, including all the paperwork and legal stuff is in the cost of goods.

Even though there is no country import tax, there still is freight forwarding costs and landing tax that is born by the receiver.

Marketing, although most is done in the US, there is still regional issues that have to be addressed, i.e., country specific legal issues such as warrantees and the like. Just the cost of another language, phone numbers, translations, etc., are added costs. In addition, accounting, patent and copyright filings, monitoring, support and tracking is costs that have to reflect the regional concerns as well. Just can't dump American Made and not expect to pay the piper.
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post #150 of 363
4/28/08 at 3:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Barefeats showed that 8800 is not much benefit for video editing, it's a detriment. For its capabilities that relate to pro apps, It's actually slower than some older, "lesser" cards.

http://www.barefeats.com/harper10.html

They tested the 8800 GT against the 2600 XT (it doesn't say how much memory). Do you think the same results hold for the 8800 GS (512MB) against the 2600 Pro (256 MB)? (I'm interested in the apps, not the gaming). The way the cards are named is pretty confusing.
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post #151 of 363
4/28/08 at 4:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

We bought 20 24" machines for the two photography labs in my daughters school. I've been helping the teachers with their classes. I've not noticed this problem, and I wonder where it comes from.

What blogs are you talking about, because the pro sites I'm a member of, where more than a few pro's use these machines, have had not a word of it.



You mean backlit displays, right?



As I've just said, I've not seen this issue, nor have I read about it. Please give me a link or two to check out. I would be very interested.

Here are several pages worth.

<http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=iMac+24%22+screen+gr adient+issue&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8>

Another from Photo.net.

<http://photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00OED9>

They're not hard to find.
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post #152 of 363
4/28/08 at 4:23pm
Well I just placed my order for the 24" 3.06ghz box with the NVIDIA GPU. I'm moving from a 7 year old Dell PIII box (that's slow as hell) and never used a Mac in my life. What's the best way to learn the new OSX environment? Just dive in? Pay the Apple store for "lessons"? Wish me luck!
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post #153 of 363
4/28/08 at 4:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncpcguy View Post

Well I just placed my order for the 24" 3.06ghz box with the NVIDIA GPU. I'm moving from a 7 year old Dell PIII box (that's slow as hell) and never used a Mac in my life. What's the best way to learn the new OSX environment? Just dive in? Pay the Apple store for "lessons"? Wish me luck!

IMO, join a MUG, you can't beat all of the info at your fingertips. For example, here's an excellent one, and yes I'm a member, <http://www.amug.org/>. For $39 a year you will get unlimited online support, plus member discounts on merchandise, and we have monthly meetings if you live close enough.

I've gotten many times more than $39 worth of help every year that I've been a member.
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post #154 of 363
4/28/08 at 4:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncpcguy View Post

Well I just placed my order for the 24" 3.06ghz box with the NVIDIA GPU. I'm moving from a 7 year old Dell PIII box (that's slow as hell) and never used a Mac in my life. What's the best way to learn the new OSX environment? Just dive in? Pay the Apple store for "lessons"? Wish me luck!

One option is the book "Mac OS X Leopard: The Missing Manual." Also, the Apple Stores have beginning classes/workshops for free (or you can pay for one-on-one time). There's a "Switchers" page on the Apple website.
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post #155 of 363
4/28/08 at 4:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncpcguy View Post

Well I just placed my order for the 24" 3.06ghz box with the NVIDIA GPU. I'm moving from a 7 year old Dell PIII box (that's slow as hell) and never used a Mac in my life. What's the best way to learn the new OSX environment? Just dive in? Pay the Apple store for "lessons"? Wish me luck!

You'll find strong similarities with Windows but many things which we find obvious you will have to discover. You'll be looking pretty hard for wizards (there are none and you won't miss them).

Most of the "obvious things" will just need to be pointed out to you. Like going to someone else's house there will be a kitchen, bathroom, broom closet etc. Just somewhere else. We speak a different language and name the pets odd names like "Finder" instead of "Explorer".

On the bright side we are not as mean spirited, malicious or mercenary as the Windows world. No endemic diseases to speak of, you can even drink the water if you don't mind Kool Aid in it.

To start I do suggest you go to the Apple.com tutorials and if you need a holding hand Apple's Forums. There are plenty of excellent tutorial videos on OSx and Apple's applications at their website as well.
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post #156 of 363
4/28/08 at 4:53pm
If I get a new computer with the $69 .mac subscription, does it just add the new time to my existing .mac account, or does the $69 deal only apply for new .mac accounts?
20" iMac G5, 2 GB Ram, OS X 10.4.11, .Mac
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20" iMac G5, 2 GB Ram, OS X 10.4.11, .Mac
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post #157 of 363
4/28/08 at 4:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

As I've just said, I've not seen this issue, nor have I read about it. Please give me a link or two to check out. I would be very interested.

Even Apple's own forums were full of complaints. I steered clear of the problem by buying the white 24" iMacs before they disappeared off the shelves. Got them at excellent prices too!
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post #158 of 363
4/28/08 at 5:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gobble gobble View Post

If I get a new computer with the $69 .mac subscription, does it just add the new time to my existing .mac account, or does the $69 deal only apply for new .mac accounts?

You use the number from the new .Mac account to extend your existing account when the current one expires.
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post #159 of 363
4/28/08 at 5:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormchild View Post

Actually, that's still way overpriced. You can get a full 4 GB of the exact same memory for under $100 elsewhere (and by the way it's 800 MHz, not GHz). Try checking the prices for 4 GB of 800 MHz DDR2 memory at Dealram. Never buy RAM or HD upgrades from Apple.

The RAM you list is 240 pin instead of 200 pin. Crucial lists 2x2GB of the new iMac memory for $124. So yeah, it's a better deal than Apple, and you get the extra 2x1GB modules to sell or give away (if you want to deal with it).

But still, $200 for the Apple factory upgrade (from 2 to 4GB) is not bad.
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post #160 of 363
4/28/08 at 5:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

There is no import fee that the USA is charging. Cost of transportation from whereever, including all the paperwork and legal stuff is in the cost of goods.

Even though there is no country import tax, there still is freight forwarding costs and landing tax that is born by the receiver.

So same thing different name. It is not like we are paying separately for these either, but we wouldn't be paying yours as well as ours, just instead of.

Quote:
Marketing, although most is done in the US, there is still regional issues that have to be addressed, i.e., country specific legal issues such as warrantees and the like. Just the cost of another language, phone numbers, translations, etc., are added costs. In addition, accounting, patent and copyright filings, monitoring, support and tracking is costs that have to reflect the regional concerns as well. Just can't dump American Made and not expect to pay the piper.

Again all these issues are instead of. We speak English, the laws and lawyers are similar and go with any working business. Any Apple office anywhere has to pay for its own telephones, stationery, accounts etc even in the States. You didn't have to pay a premium on your Macs to use Australia's Fred Anderson when he became HQ's CFO for many years.

You would assume that all parts of an organisation contribute to the whole. There should not be any cross subsidisation unless you are trying to minimise tax in certain markets by loading them up with costs to reduce their profits and shift them to HQ.

Should Mac consumers in Alaska pay more than say Canadian consumers? After all they are a small state in population and are much further from Apple HQ and face much greater transport and support costs?
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