Originally Posted by NOFEER
"worthy human being" ????
high school had much more value years ago, college more so
NOW...to get a good job, you must compete with more people, having a highschool diploma is a minimum...
the value of both HS and College has gone DOWN
That is an odd way of looking at it. Perhaps the value has gone down....the value to the employer. But the value to the person with the degree is much higher. If one must have something, it's value is high. We don't disagree here, I just think you've chosen an odd way to look at it.
it wasn't too long ago that an elementary teacher needed only a college degree...NOW you need a masters and they specialize.
Not true exactly. Teachers start with Bachelor's Degrees in most cases. Then, most states require credits afterwards. Most get Masters and even go further because that's how they get raises.
My grandmother got a job to help support her family....she had only a 3rd grade education, but SHE
KNEW HER NUMBERS and worked the cash register at walgreens and later for Marshall Fields (downtown chicago) for 18 years. how many 3rd graders could as an adult support a family this way???
I think you mean "how many people with a 3rd grade education." Not many.
NOW teachers in the public school system have told me "im just a baby sitter....pressure is put on me to pass pass pass pass...i feel sorry for the next teacher and myself...it's the way it is no wonder so many of my colleagues drop out of education" this is a direct quote, i'm on a competing school board (none of my teachers say anything like this, many of my teachers have retired or left the public school system just for this reason. they the teachers at my kids school have little faith in public schools and they say the results speak HUGE.
Depends where you go. My school isn't like that.
so remedial reading classes grow and grow IN COLLEGE
Well, that's true. What do you think about my points in the last post, though?
Originally Posted by tonton
Teacher unions? TEACHER UNIONS?
How about Teacher salaries? How about teacher benefits? How about Teachers' working hours?
Compare the above to 40 years ago and tell me again why the education system sucks?
Teacher salaries and benefits HAVE NOT matched inflation.
In general that's true. Even in my district, which is rich and pays well, I don't make squat compared to most of the community. It will take until my 11th year teaching (this is 9) to equal what my brother started at after college. He was a product engineer for Agere systems when he started. Same amount of schooling. Twice the salary. Even now, he works for the US Patent Office. He makes twice what I do. Not complaining..but that's the way it is.
Teacher working hours and responsibilities have expanded terribly with regard to extra-curricular activities.
That's not true for the most part...nowhere I've seen anyway. In fact, the opposite is true. 30 years ago teachers ate lunch with their classes and had no prep time. Not so today.
Music teachers have been fired and English and math teachers are asked to take their place.
Depends where, but yes.
Assistant coaches are fired and science and history teachers are asked to perform their duties.
Usually they are faculty members anyway, so I don't think that really holds up.
Imagine how things would be without unions...
I actually don't think they'd be worse. My union is useless. They do nothing and administration does whatever it wants to anyway. PSEA and NEA are useless PACs that send me propaganda every month. For this privilege, I pay $650 a year in dues. I am required to either pay the dues and join, or pay the dues and not join. I have no option.
In fact, the union I belonged to before ended up working against its own teachers. It's kind of like that now as well. We have contractual hours despite being on salary. That means if I'm done teaching at 3:00, I have to stay until the end of the contract day just because. Don't have a meeting and want to come in at 8:45 instead of 8:00? Too bad. You're contractually obligated. I have to sign in and out when leaving. All of this is due to restrictions in the CBA.
And you know what? Without the union, nothing would change. Tenure is a state law, and doesn't mean someone can't be fired anyway. The systems that pay better get the more qualified applicants, so it's sort of a defacto merit-based system as is.