New Features in Jaguar (please post here rather than one thread per feature!) - Page 4

"Make it work, then make it fast."

Nice to have a seasoned response. At least one person gets it.

I'm really enjoying the development of Ten.

We're in on something 'new' from the ground up.

A solid base to add some great features.

I thought the WWDC had a stunning feature packed keynote. And Apple are just getting started on this OS.

What gnarks me is the whinging about things that probably will come eg speed eventually (although now? I find it quite responsive...) and 'name feature of your choice'.

I like the ichat. Apple gets in bed with AOL. Nice one. A good strategic alliance that gives Apple access to a hundred million 'buddies'. Good business sense.

Like the gum-drop speech bubbles and drag and drop from iphoto onto a buddy piccy to send them a pic. Nice feature. All animated nicely in the Apple way.

I love the Quartz Extreme (despite the technical cloud that hangs over the ibook my wife and I use...) acceleration. Can't wait until I get my G5 (where Quartz Extreme will probably be redundant anyhow...but...) I wonder what the grass roots developers and major players will do with this 'power'? I've got some weird interface requests...but 'aqua' is already vexing the 'grey enlightened' souls on some of these topic threads so I'll stay quiet for now...

I like the new 'search' from anywhere. Finder far and wide and omni-present sherlock 3...which is the muchly superb Watson, right? Only a matter of time.

Does Windows have a Watson in XP?

Still, who cares? Ten has (soon) and it's my OS of choice.

I was initially unsure of the metal interface elements...but they grew on me quick. I like this for the many 'mini apps'...and special features. It's a nice contrast with Aqua.

The 'aware' industry proposed standard. Interesting concept. Can't think of anybody who'd want to share my 'daddy's music collection'. Eagles anyone?

Inkwell. Well, it was developed already?

I like it. Superb integration with Photoshop et al. I was amazed by it. Cool. Saw the Cnet streaming video demo of it. Amazed was I.

Quicktime 6. This looks to be a biggy. Hmmm. Hope Apple can resolve the licensing issue with those guys.

And then...there's the romantic woo-ing of the enterprise market...

Maybe Jaguar is beginning to realise some of the 'X' promise.

If Apple can get some of those big business customers that Compaq rely on for profital quarters...then real growth maybe just around the corner.

Looking back at the MAC market over the last five years...makes me think that we're beginning to see things that just weren't possible on OS9.

People are beginning to take the Mac market seriously again and we're seeing people coming back or giving the Mac market the long hard look. From Unix to Java to Windows developers.

And enterprise?

It, for me, is exciting to see all the Jaguar features and I'll be one of the first to buy it whether it cost £50 or £95!

Where were we five years ago? Near bankruptcy?

I think if you'd have offered Apple and Apple users like me Apple's position today? We'd take it. Trade it for any minor gripes about a new OS Ten which is still receiving it's polish and comming up all shiny metal!

Lemon Bon Bon

<img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />

[quote]Originally posted by JLL:
<strong>What product? Jaguar isn't selling.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I reckon having things like this on the Mac OS X page is pushing a product too long before it's ready:

[quote] I reckon having things like this on the Mac OS X page is pushing a product too long before it's ready... <hr></blockquote>

True... however, this is a rumors board so people here usually *want* the dirt on upcoming projects. We all bemoan Apple's uptight security about announcing future products... now, suddenly because it's coming from Apple and not from Spymac we're complaining?!

I apologize for the , it's the first I've ever given, but really...don't you come here to find out about stuff that's not been released yet?

rr.

"I reckon having things like this on the Mac OS X page is pushing a product too long before it's ready..."

Well, Apple are in the business of making money.

Hype. Antici-pation. Putting users through 'can't wait hell'.

It's fair game, Belle.

I find it hard to believe you'd expect any less of Apple...

Lemon Bon Bon
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />

[quote]Originally posted by Belle:
<strong>
I reckon having things like this on the Mac OS X page is pushing a product too long before it's ready:</strong><hr></blockquote>

You should be glad you're not into movies

I'm not too happy with the finder search. I would much rather it be a slide out from the toolbar or something. the search field will get cut off at times and takes up a lot of room there. if it could just slide out of the toolbar into the main window I think it would be much better. they could also have some advanced options as well doing it that way

[quote]Originally posted by philter:
<strong>I don't care what you say -- there is NO EXCUSE for the only alternative to anti-aliasing being, looking at fonts that run together and look like garbage. The concept of "WYSIWYG" is completely irrelevant to this discussion; we're talking about screen display fonts here for use in displaying lists of items in my newsreader, MT-NewsWatcher 3.2 for instance, or for display in the "Toolbar Favorites" section of the Explorer browser window. Right now, if you are using Explorer, go and turn off antialiasing and load up explorer. Look at your toolbar favoirtes. In mine, there is "Google." Except the "l" and the "e" are literally touching each other. This is bad rendering. It should not happen. There is no argument to be had here; there is no possible way you can convince me that Apple is right to have an inferior font rendering model "just because it is OS X." You can't blame it on Microsoft, either; the same thing happens if you open Apple's own Preferences panel and look at the ugliness of the non-antialiased text in the favorites bar.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Actually you can blame it on Microsoft, a build of IE installed via software update installed corupted Helvetica/Geneva fonts a while back...MS supposedly put a fix up somwhere but I've yet to see it.

[quote]Originally posted by Quarem:
<strong>I hear a lot of people complaining that labels have not been introduced as one of Jaguar's new features. A while back Apple hired the guy who created BFS. I think that Apple didn't include labels in Jaguar because they are working on something better. </strong><hr></blockquote>

hate to break it to ya, but if you check out this image, it looks as though labels (and about a zillion other features) are coming back to jaguar...

<a href="http://www.spymac.com/cgi-bin/pictures/index.pl?photo=705&size=big" target="_blank">http://www.spymac.com/cgi-bin/pictures/index.pl?photo=705&size=big</a>

(you can see the labels preference in the views palette)

btw, we rag on them a lot, but kudos to spymac for getting the most comprehensive set of photos from wwdc on the net first. i am drooling with every slow-loading screenshot (btw, my idea, yes MY idea of badging the minimized windows with icons of the parent application made it into jaguar!!! woo-hoo!!! i feel like i should be in an easter egg somewhere when it ships!!!)

Applenut, I think you're right on the Finder search tool. However, I also think Apple will implement your ideas, and if they don't, well, Feedback. Maybe we should preemptively complain?

One feature heard of, and am shocked and apalled at Apple for not mentioning, is the friggin Energy Saver Preference Panel. WTF? Why can't I tell the screen to dim after a minute!? This better make it in 10.2. There is no reason not to have it. Other than that, 10.2, hubba hubba! If iBooks can use Quartz Extreme, I will definitely have to pinch myself. Other than Labels and a few other things, which will require a -major- overhaul of the system (10.5? 11?) and journaling in the file system, FreeBSD 5, etc, 10.2 does indeed fulfill the promise of 10.1.

[quote]Originally posted by applenut:
<strong>I'm not too happy with the finder search. I would much rather it be a slide out from the toolbar or something. the search field will get cut off at times and takes up a lot of room there. if it could just slide out of the toolbar into the main window I think it would be much better. they could also have some advanced options as well doing it that way</strong><hr></blockquote>

I agree completely with that. Actually, I would much prefer to have a small (but very fast) search window, like in system 7, as an alternative to the Sherlock application.

By the way, do you know how this search field is supposed to work ? What are its uses ?

On another subject :
I'm still pissed to see OS X so slow on powerfull machines (PPC), while NeXT-STEP was running nicely on the old 68040 processors, with full postscript display. Too much fancy effects in Quartz.

[quote]Originally posted by Amorph:
<strong>

It's amazing what happens to performance when your window buffer sizes increase by a factor of 32.

You could get a lot of that speed back by hacking OS X to run in black and white, but then you'd lose something. </strong><hr></blockquote>

Just because of that, I set my powerbook to 256 colors just to see if I could. Didn't seem that much faster...

[quote]Originally posted by rok:
<strong>hate to break it to ya, but if you check out this image, it looks as though labels (and about a zillion other features) are coming back to jaguar...

<a href="http://www.spymac.com/cgi-bin/pictures/index.pl?photo=705&size=big" target="_blank">http://www.spymac.com/cgi-bin/pictures/index.pl?photo=705&size=big</a>

(you can see the labels preference in the views palette)</strong><hr></blockquote>
Bzzzt! Wrong!

That radio button is for the location of the icon labels (the name). Switch it to the side and the name is written to the right of the icons.

I'm about to install 10.2 in about 5 minutes and will gladly answer any questions you have (except for how and where I got it).

Hey, in that case, let us know how Quartz Extreme works if you're running it on a Mac that meets the requirements. Also, I'd love to know if Mail lets you connect to Exchange servers (i.e. connection options other than POP or IMAP).

First, ladies and gentlemen, I present to you....

<a href="http://brad.project-think.com/movies/Jag-slf.mov" target="_blank">Spring Loaded Folders!!!!</a>

btw, Snapz doesn't capture the cursor correctly in videos. That's why it looks strange. It will actually look like this with the new slight shadow:



[quote] (i.e. connection options other than POP or IMAP)<hr></blockquote>nope, just iTools, POP, and IMAP.

[ 05-09-2002: Message edited by: starfleetX ]

[ 06-15-2002: Message edited by: starfleetX ]</p>

[quote]Originally posted by Belle:
<strong>What saddens me is that once again Apple is selling us a product that won't be available for five months. That's fine for developers and investors, but a crappy way to treat customers.</strong><hr></blockquote>

WTF ? This was a developer conference. Covered by an NDA. Apple isn't selling you anything - if you choose to investigate it, then the knowledge that you discover is yours to deal with.

So deal with it !

Here's a shot of Preview 2.0 (note the new toolbar) opening a snapshot showing some of the new options for users.

<a href="http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-preview2.jpg" target="_blank">http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-preview2.jpg</a>

[quote]Originally posted by starfleetX:
<strong>First, ladies and gentlemen, I present to you....

<a href="http://brad.project-think.com/movies/slf.mov" target="_blank">Spring Loaded Folders!!!!</a>

btw, Snapz doesn't capture the cursor correctly in videos. That's why it looks strange. It will actually look like this with the new slight shadow:



nope, just iTools, POP, and IMAP.

[ 05-09-2002: Message edited by: starfleetX ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

Thanks for the vid, starfleet!

Nice touch from Apple with the folders "opening", and zooming out. Is that a feature when you open the window normally?

low-fi

You may already know info windows have changed, but did you know they are spawned many times over now?

<a href="http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-multiple-info-windows.jpg" target="_blank">http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-multiple-info-windows.jpg</a>

Also, the Terminal.app has changed quite a bit. No need for TinkerTool here!

<a href="http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-terminal-color-settings.jpg" target="_blank">http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-terminal-color-settings.jpg</a>

Also, the "new" Sherlock isn't included, but it is clear that you won't be using Sherlock to find files on your drive anymore -- thank god!

<a href="http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-find.jpg" target="_blank">http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-find.jpg</a>

Minimized windows can be dragged off the Dock, but it seems rather pointless. I expect later Big Things may come from this. You can't "toss" these miniwindows like in older builds. You can drag one back into the Dock, but the Dock has to the shown (it won't bring up the Dock if autohide is set).

<a href="http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-miniwindows.jpg" target="_blank">http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-miniwindows.jpg</a>

More Classic info!

<a href="http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-classic-mem.jpg" target="_blank">http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-classic-mem.jpg</a>

A different map and selection method for time zones. Hmm. I think I liked the old way better.

<a href="http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-datentime.jpg" target="_blank">http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-datentime.jpg</a>

[ 05-09-2002: Message edited by: starfleetX ]</p>

[quote]Originally posted by low-fi:
<strong>Nice touch from Apple with the folders "opening", and zooming out. Is that a feature when you open the window normally?</strong><hr></blockquote>Yes, it happens all the time. Show Info windows zoom out also. It's not nearly as obtrusive as you might think it is and there's no delay at all before it starts zooming.

It's very nice.

[ 05-09-2002: Message edited by: starfleetX ]</p>

[quote]Originally posted by Quarem:
<strong>I hear a lot of people complaining that labels have not been introduced as one of Jaguar's new features. A while back Apple hired the guy who created BFS. I think that Apple didn't include labels in Jaguar because they are working on something better. It doesn't look like a new file system will be implemented for Jaguar, but I think we will see a new FS in the next major release of OS X after Jaguar. I think that the new FS will include superior metadata handling and will blow labels out of the water.

If this is the case, then it makes sense for Apple not to bring labels in Jaguar as a hacked on feature, but to wait for the new FS and full metadata support.

Apple's listening to your concerns and tackling the issues one at a time. The question is not 'if' labels will be included, but 'when' will labels be included. Mac OS 8.1 brought us HFS+, so I wonder if Apple would be bold enough to introduce a new filesystem between Jaguar and the next major release after that.</strong><hr></blockquote>

For me the whole point of labels was simply to have a visual aid as to which documents and files I had to do, were done, etc etc etc. Thats it. I dont need something that will blow me away. I just want a stupid 'colored layer' on top of normal icons. I dont care if the info is not kept on an individual file level... grrr.

In any case, I'll give SNAX a try I guess :-/

[quote]Originally posted by Gee4orce:
<strong>WTF ? This was a developer conference. Covered by an NDA. Apple isn't selling you anything - if you choose to investigate it, then the knowledge that you discover is yours to deal with.

So deal with it !</strong><hr></blockquote>
This was the point that many people made before the keynote. However, if you look at the last post I made, and on Apple's <a href="http://www.apple.com/macosx/" target="_blank">Mac OS X</a> page, you'll see big fat references to Jaguar.

If this is for developers only, why is it all over the consumer site, and why were press packs sent out to publications completely unrelated to developers?

BuonRotto, i think it bugs me for a couple of reasons. Firstly, as I say, it should really be directed at developers, not consumers.

Secondly, it's a change in policy at Apple that has come since its big makeover. If I remember correctly, OS 9 shipped around two weeks after it was announced, not five months.

Thirdly, this new policy of announcing products long before they're ready is a dark road to head down. Remember how upset people were when faster G4s weren't shipping in numbers for months? And how annoyed people were that the LCD iMacs were taking so long to appear?

It's also ominous in a business sense. Current products aren't enough to push the company's value, so they're using products that won't be on sale for several months. It's just one step away from accusations of vaporware.

Also, if this was purely for developers, why is the coverage offered by Apple about such superficial "improvements" as iChat, the Address Book, and Sherlock 3? Mention of a multi-threaded Finder, something we should have had last year, is relegated to a little paragraph at the bottom of the page.

first off, thanks a billion... great job!

[quote]Originally posted by starfleetX:
You may already know info windows have changed, but did you know they are spawned many times over now?

<a href="http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-multiple-info-windows.jpg" target="_blank">http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-multiple-info-windows.jpg</a>
<hr></blockquote>

Hmm, ya know I was really starting to like having one window for "Get Info". Is there any option to keep it as it was (is now)?

[quote]
Minimized windows can be dragged off the Dock, but it seems rather pointless. I expect later Big Things may come from this. You can't "toss" these miniwindows like in older builds. You can drag one back into the Dock, but the Dock has to the shown (it won't bring up the Dock if autohide is set).
<hr></blockquote>

Hmm... this is an odd feature <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" /> I don't really understand what its supposed to do. Is it just to have minimized windows outside of the dock? Sort of like a shortcut to a folder/window?


[quote]
More Classic info!
<hr></blockquote>

People still use Classic? Heck, I havent had to use an OS 9 app in months! I doubt I'll ever have to again by the time Shaguar comes out.

[quote]
A different map and selection method for time zones. Hmm. I think I liked the old way better.
<hr></blockquote>

Eep! Are we going back to MacOS 7!!! <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> What was that secret location in the OS 7 map control panel again? Was an easter egg. Would be fun to see if its there too.

BTW, whats withe "Label" settings? Left, Right? Can ya get a pic of that?
Can you take a pic of the contextual menu on various items (a jpd, txt, folder, on the desktop, on an app, etc?) Is it 'smarter'?
Also, if you are on a mixed network, can you see if/how well SMB browsing is? Like Dave?
Any new power settings (Energy Saver)?

Thanks in advance!

[quote]Eep! Are we going back to MacOS 7!!! What was that secret location in the OS 7 map control panel again? Was an easter egg. Would be fun to see if its there too.<hr></blockquote>Middle Of Nowhere.

And it's not here.



[quote]BTW, whats withe "Label" settings? Left, Right? Can ya get a pic of that?<hr></blockquote>That's just to determine if the icon name will be under or to the right of it. Nothing spectacular.
[quote]Can you take a pic of the contextual menu on various items (a jpd, txt, folder, on the desktop, on an app, etc?) Is it 'smarter'?
Also, if you are on a mixed network, can you see if/how well SMB browsing is? Like Dave?
Any new power settings (Energy Saver)?<hr></blockquote>I'm not sure if it's smarter -- seems to be exactly the same as what's in the Show Info windows. I'm just at home on PPPoE DSL; so, I have no fancy network tests. Energy Saver has no new options except hard disk sleep was changed from a slider to a checkbox.

Here's the context shot:

Odd that it lists PS7 as a classic app (it's actually the OSX version).

Also worth noting:
The context menu on the desktop has "Change Desktop Background..." like OS9 had (well, and Windows too).

[ 05-09-2002: Message edited by: starfleetX ]</p>

Also, Quartz just started going haywire again. Extreme indeed!

<a href="http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-wiggy-redraw.jpg" target="_blank">http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-wiggy-redraw.jpg</a>

And two snaps of the firewall (per request of MacNN'ers)

<a href="http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-firewall-1.jpg" target="_blank">http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-firewall-1.jpg</a>

<a href="http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-firewall-2.jpg" target="_blank">http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-firewall-2.jpg</a>

Does anyone know if the one single most annoying workflow masher when using X in non-US English-speaking countries has been fixed in the Jag?

[Paper size defaults cannot be set to A4 in an English installation, but default to US Letter, thus soundly shagging UK, Aus, and anyone outside US (like France) with an English OS]

This is a serious impediment to this OS, as you have to go to Page Setup EVERY TIME YOU WANT TO PRINT A PAGE.

[quote]Originally posted by Harald:
Paper size defaults cannot be set to A4 in an English installation, but default to US Letter, thus soundly shagging UK, Aus, and anyone outside US (like France) with an English OS<hr></blockquote>I've tried all sorts of things and can't get it off the default US Letter.

Also, more shots that were requested by MacNN'ers:

<a href="http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-dockmenu.jpg" target="_blank">http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-dockmenu.jpg</a>
<a href="http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-ie-popup.jpg" target="_blank">http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-ie-popup.jpg</a>
<a href="http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-ie-context.jpg" target="_blank">http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-ie-context.jpg</a>

[ 05-09-2002: Message edited by: starfleetX ]</p>

it seems they're using the small drop down menu ala OmniWeb throughout the system now, instead of the large dropdown menus we have now. Could you check on that?

How fast is the dock menu for large docked folders, say 100 items+?

Could you strip the extension off a .sit file and remove its file type info (by uloading to a ftp and getting it back, or by other means) and try the 'open with" cmm on it to see if does a bit of header parsing magic?

[quote]Originally posted by Belle:
<strong>Thirdly, this new policy of announcing products long before they're ready is a dark road to head down. Remember how upset people were when faster G4s weren't shipping in numbers for months? And how annoyed people were that the LCD iMacs were taking so long to appear?</strong><hr></blockquote>

You can't compare that. They are announcing Jaguar as being released in about four months, but they told people that they could buy the iMac the same day and delivered in a couple of weeks, but it was delayed.


[quote]Originally posted by Belle:
<strong>It's also ominous in a business sense. Current products aren't enough to push the company's value, so they're using products that won't be on sale for several months. It's just one step away from accusations of vaporware.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Well, blame the Internet. Apple have been very good at keeping Jaguar a secret, but at soome time the developers had to know about it, and you know that a few houors after the developers get their hands on new software you can find at your local Carracho server.

By announcing it a few hours before Joe Schmoe installs it, there is still an element of surprise, and it is a lot more exciting to read/see a product presentation, when you don't know everything that's being presented.


[quote]Originally posted by Belle:
<strong>Also, if this was purely for developers, why is the coverage offered by Apple about such superficial "improvements" as iChat, the Address Book, and Sherlock 3?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Because developers can make products that interact with those "superficial improvements".

[ 05-09-2002: Message edited by: JLL ]

[ 05-09-2002: Message edited by: JLL ]</p>

[quote]Originally posted by starfleetX:
<strong>Odd that it lists PS7 as a classic app (it's actually the OSX version).
</strong><hr></blockquote>

If you look at Photoshop's bundle you'll find two Photoshop apps in it. One Carbon app for Mac OS X (and Mac OS X only) and a Classic app (which is not Carbon).

[quote]Originally posted by starfleetX:
<strong>I've tried all sorts of things and can't </strong><hr></blockquote>

Have you tried <a href="http://www.versiontracker.com/moreinfo.fcgi?id=12554&db=mac" target="_blank">A4 Default Paper Size?</a>

Simple Question: Can you drag a file into a subfolder of a folder on the dock. That is, does spring loaded folders work on the dock also?

Thank you

Oh, and can you adjust that huge grid size in the finder that Apple seems to like so much? Maybe I shouldn't complain; they did let us change our font size. I mean, the grid size adjustment alogrithm must be lost in OS 9's coffin or something.

Adding features to the finder must be difficult. It seems much easier to work on Quartz Extreme and have 3d objects floating on your desktop reflecting what's on your screen (not that i'm complaining about that )

My most important question is Have they fixed php in Jaguar or do you still need random hacks to get it working?

[quote]Originally posted by Pegges:
<strong>

Have you tried <a href="http://www.versiontracker.com/moreinfo.fcgi?id=12554&db=mac" target="_blank">A4 Default Paper Size?</a></strong><hr></blockquote>

The point was that he checked if you didn't need that hack in Jaguar.

interesting in the SLF movie that the actual folder icon changes when you're hovering over it... note how the folder 'opens' a bit...

attention to detail. i like it.

JLL, you're on the money. I / Starfleet can hack the OS, but I'd rather bloody not. This one smells of that PPP bug that didn't exist as as Apple were concerned. I have an entirely unsubstantiable feeling that Apple don't give a shoit about this, although it directly impacts usability of the OS to their core market overseas.

I mean, as an admin, am I supposed to go around to all 40 machines in a facility and run a foggin shareware hack so that workflow isn't impaired?

Great sshots starfleetx. Thanks.

could we see some shots of iChat in use? the buddy list, the different menus/preferences, the different chat window options (with and without bubbles)


thanks...

can you guys run this benchmark on your systems-and tell us your hardware so we can compare.

<a href="http://www.vgg.com/rob/WindowsBloom.html" target="_blank">http://www.vgg.com/rob/WindowsBloom.html</a>