New Features in Jaguar (please post here rather than one thread per feature!) - Page 5

Starfleet, you must not work, sleep, or eat until you have posted more screenshots.

just FYI

Starfleet X,

I saw that you posted screenshots of a 10.2 firewall. Does that mean that 10.2 ships with a GUI for the firewall? And just after I got Brickhouse up and running. Doh!

GG

starfleetX, you made a crucial error in volunteering these screenshots...don't you know we have an insatiable appetite for this stuff!

Personally, I'm curious what's behind those new "Digital Hub" system prefs. Any chance of a getting a screenshot or two of those?

rr.

There's a couple of things I'm annoyed at with Jaguar, and one is that it breaks the Apple Remote Desktop App. The others are not even worth mentioning.

Jaguar is responsive. It is actually incredible. The GUI has finally caught up with the system and this is four months before release. I can't even imagine the final! Everything across the board is faster, from Finder to web browsing to starting Classic. Remarkable OS.

By the way, I'm glad Apple finally got all the debugging code out of here. Sheesh! <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />

starfleetx, what hardware are you running Jaguar on?

So I was wondering if anybody has played around with the inkwell stuff. I just installed the Jaguar release, but I'm not seeing anything to do with inkwell...maybe it's me and I'm just missing it though

[quote]Simple Question: Can you drag a file into a subfolder of a folder on the dock. That is, does spring loaded folders work on the dock also?<hr></blockquote>The Dock is not spring-loaded. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />

[quote]Oh, and can you adjust that huge grid size <hr></blockquote>No grid adjustment, but it does seem to resize automatically a little better than before. I'll make a movie of it later.
[quote]could we see some shots of iChat in use? the buddy list, the different menus/preferences, the different chat window options (with and without bubbles)<hr></blockquote>Coming right up...
<a href="http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-ichat1.jpg" target="_blank">http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-ichat1.jpg</a>
<a href="http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-ichat2.jpg" target="_blank">http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-ichat2.jpg</a>
<a href="http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-ichat3.jpg" target="_blank">http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-ichat3.jpg</a>
<a href="http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-ichat4.jpg" target="_blank">http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-ichat4.jpg</a>
<a href="http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-ichat5.jpg" target="_blank">http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-ichat5.jpg</a>
<a href="http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-ichat6.jpg" target="_blank">http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-ichat6.jpg</a>

And this last one I see a lot in iChat


[ 05-09-2002: Message edited by: starfleetX ]</p>

[quote]I saw that you posted screenshots of a 10.2 firewall. Does that mean that 10.2 ships with a GUI for the firewall? And just after I got Brickhouse up and running. Doh!<hr></blockquote>Yes, but I still *much* prefer BrickHouse.

[quote]Personally, I'm curious what's behind those new "Digital Hub" system prefs. Any chance of a getting a screenshot or two of those?<hr></blockquote>Coming right up!
<a href="http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-dighub0.jpg" target="_blank">http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-dighub0.jpg</a>
<a href="http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-dighub1.jpg" target="_blank">http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-dighub1.jpg</a>
<a href="http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-dighub2.jpg" target="_blank">http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-dighub2.jpg</a>
<a href="http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-dighub3.jpg" target="_blank">http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-dighub3.jpg</a>
<a href="http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-dighub4.jpg" target="_blank">http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-dighub4.jpg</a>

[quote]starfleetx, what hardware are you running Jaguar on?<hr></blockquote>Dual 500 G4 (gigabit ethernet edition) with a 32MB AGP Radeon (OEM).
[quote]So I was wondering if anybody has played around with the inkwell stuff. I just installed the Jaguar release, but I'm not seeing anything to do with inkwell<hr></blockquote>I can't seem to find it either.

[ 05-09-2002: Message edited by: starfleetX ]</p>

[quote]can you guys run this benchmark on your systems-and tell us your hardware so we can compare.

<a href="http://www.vgg.com/rob/WindowsBloom.html" target="_blank">http://www.vgg.com/rob/WindowsBloom.html</a>
<hr></blockquote>I can't build a fresh copy now (no dev tools yet) but I can run an old copy I had before -- the results:

Total time to create and dispose 1000 windows: 71 seconds (71749441 microseconds)

Thanks! I got to see that gorgeous new Aqua beachball (yes, it's an Aqua version of the b&w beachball) for a good while, there. It's so purty I could stare at it all bay long -- not that you'll typically have to -- I RARELY see it.

[ 05-09-2002: Message edited by: starfleetX ]</p>

starfleetX did you get my email?

[quote]Originally posted by JLL:
<strong>You can't compare that. They are announcing Jaguar as being released in about four months, but they told people that they could buy the iMac the same day and delivered in a couple of weeks, but it was delayed.</strong><hr></blockquote>
The iMac was announced on January 7, with the SuperDrive model being released in "late January", the Combo in "February", and CD-RW in "March". Before the production problems, there was still a wait of between three and twelve weeks before the first of each type of iMac started shipping.
[quote]<strong>Well, blame the Internet. Apple have been very good at keeping Jaguar a secret, but at soome time the developers had to know about it, and you know that a few houors after the developers get their hands on new software you can find at your local Carracho server.

By announcing it a few hours before Joe Schmoe installs it, there is still an element of surprise, and it is a lot more exciting to read/see a product presentation, when you don't know everything that's being presented.</strong><hr></blockquote>
And yet Apple was very, very protective of earlier versions of OS X. They've chosen to go public with it. There is absolutely no reason to show off features like a new Address Book and iChat now unless you're trying to attract public interest.
[quote]<strong>Because developers can make products that interact with those "superficial improvements".
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hogwash. These features are, as I say, to generate public interest. Developers could care less whether there's an Apple alternative to AIM, or a fancier address book.

And as I mentioned before, the information has been posted on the apple.com OS X page, not the developer site.

The only developers who'll have the slightest bit of interest are Karelia, who may well feel aggrieved, and the various shareware developers who produce AIM alternatives.

[ 05-09-2002: Message edited by: Belle ]</p>

[quote]Originally posted by JLL:
<strong>starfleetX did you get my email?</strong><hr></blockquote>Yup. I just responded to it. Twice :o -- you'll see. <img src="graemlins/embarrassed.gif" border="0" alt="[Embarrassed]" />

[quote] <a href="http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-dighub3.jpg" target="_blank">http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-dighub3.jpg</a> <hr></blockquote>

It seems from this pic that Apple has not in fact forgotten people with scanners! Of course, the scanner manufacturers still seem to be forgetting that people with scanners have OSX

Thanks starfleetX
rr.

I've never understood why people complained about pre-announcing. Isn't it a good thing? It allows people to plan and budget their purchases better. The only downside is to Apple, because they will lose some sales of current products that they could have sold if instead they had sneaked the new products up on us.

The only argument I've seen that pre-announcing is bad is that it's a way of muscling into a market place by putting current competitors out of business early. And I don't see how Apple is doing that here, except maybe to the shareware developers you mentioned. And it's hard to see that Apple is really trying to muscle shareware out of competition.

The more Apple lets us know what they're doing in advance, the better for consumers.

[quote]Originally posted by Belle:
<strong>
The only developers who'll have the slightest bit of interest are Karelia, who may well feel aggrieved, and the various shareware developers who produce AIM alternatives.</strong><hr></blockquote>


I'd be very much surprised if Karelia didn't recieve some manner of compensation from Apple, either for code or the general concept of Watson. Sherlock 3 is just too similar.

As far as the various 3rd party AIM developers, i've gathered that the only one which really feels directly threatened by iChat is Adam Iser- who produces Adium. The others (Proteus and Fire) have the 'multi-service' thing to fall back on. Adium will still have the mounds of customizability, and the neat interface options... plus, it's free... so...

What is window resizing like?? Like when you take a hold of the corner of the window and resize it that way, as opposed to gene effect.

I believe tat his has been asked before, but I could not find it or the response.

Thanks for showing off 10.2

[quote]Originally posted by Belle:
<strong>The iMac was announced on January 7, with the SuperDrive model being released in "late January", the Combo in "February", and CD-RW in "March". Before the production problems, there was still a wait of between three and twelve weeks before the first of each type of iMac started shipping.</strong><hr></blockquote>

The difference was that you could order the iMac - you can't order Jaguar.


[quote]Originally posted by Belle:
<strong>And yet Apple was very, very protective of earlier versions of OS X. They've chosen to go public with it. There is absolutely no reason to show off features like a new Address Book and iChat now unless you're trying to attract public interest.</strong><hr></blockquote>

And what's wrong with that?


[quote]Originally posted by Belle:
<strong>The only developers who'll have the slightest bit of interest are Karelia, who may well feel aggrieved, and the various shareware developers who produce AIM alternatives.</strong><hr></blockquote>

And the ones wanting to integrate Address Book in their apps.

[quote]Originally posted by Jonathan:
<strong>I'd be very much surprised if Karelia didn't recieve some manner of compensation from Apple, either for code or the general concept of Watson. Sherlock 3 is just too similar.</strong><hr></blockquote>

And they just got an Apple Design Award.

[quote]Originally posted by Jonathan:
<strong>As far as the various 3rd party AIM developers, i've gathered that the only one which really feels directly threatened by iChat is Adam Iser- who produces Adium.</strong><hr></blockquote>After several hours of testing iChat, I am fairly sure that Adam won't have much to ph33r from Apple's iChat. I suspect the only people who will prefer iChat are those who either don't know about Adium or those who think everything Apple does is perfect and just run it because it's plastered with Apple's name.

Believe me, iChat ain't all that great. Yet. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />

Also, this Watson-like Sherlock 3 is *not* included.

[ 05-09-2002: Message edited by: starfleetX ]</p>

starfleet , how is resizing of the iPhoto window? It's dog slow on my machines in 10.1.

Could you try the open with cmm on some file that doesn't have any extension (strip it from a .sit file for exple, then ul it to a ftp server to strip it of type info)

Question: what's the deal with the de-striped dock?

Why?

It now matches NOTHING...

very strange... not apple-esque at all...

[quote]Originally posted by SYN:
<strong>starfleet , how is resizing of the iPhoto window? It's dog slow on my machines in 10.1.</strong><hr></blockquote>I doubt iPhoto 1.1.1 is optimized for 0.2 yet, but I tried it anyway. It's still painfully slow.
[quote]<strong>Could you try the open with cmm on some file that doesn't have any extension (strip it from a .sit file for exple, then ul it to a ftp server to strip it of type info)</strong><hr></blockquote>Same as previous tests by other users. If there's no type/creator code and no extension, then the system is completely blind. The context menu shows "&lt;none&gt;" and then the "Other..." which brings up the standard dialog. No advancements in metadata, magic bits, header-scanning, nothing.

[ 05-09-2002: Message edited by: starfleetX ]</p>

[quote]Originally posted by Jonathan:
<strong>Question: what's the deal with the de-striped dock?</strong><hr></blockquote>Agreed.

The Apple UI team seems to have lost their minds. Aqua stripes, brushed metal, and "smooth" Aqua in the Dock.

I'm as baffled as you. <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />

edit: ooh! maybe this means the end of stripes is coming? After all, the displays are the only hardware that still have stripes. Hmm!

[ 05-09-2002: Message edited by: starfleetX ]</p>

another question: i've heard that 'small icons' are now available as an option in toolbars (finder, cocoa apps, etc).

Care to comment? Screenshot?

So now we have Brushed Metal (2 types, even - new standard brushed metal doesn't match the QT/iTunes metal) - good Aqua (cocoa apps, good carbon apps) - using Lucida and redesigned interfaces, and bad aqua - Geneva and a straight OS 9 port (photoshop)

Ugh. And now, de-striped Dock.

Can anybody post/screen shot details of the new Jaguar simplified finder? I'm interested in seeing how that looks. Could be helpful in an education or even office environment.

The Finder search window doesn't have stripes either except for the title bar.

Methinks this is pre-alpha software.

[quote]Originally posted by Jonathan:
<strong>another question: i've heard that 'small icons' are now available as an option in toolbars (finder, cocoa apps, etc).

Care to comment? Screenshot?</strong><hr></blockquote>This was actually one one the first (of many) things I noticed. Tough, it's nothing really special; it simply scales the icons down to about 66%. Here's are some snapz:

<a href="http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-mail-largetoolbaricons.jpg" target="_blank">http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-mail-largetoolbaricons.jpg</a>
<a href="http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-mail-smalltoolbaricons.jpg" target="_blank">http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-mail-smalltoolbaricons.jpg</a>
<a href="http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-mail-smalltoolbaricons2.jpg" target="_blank">http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-mail-smalltoolbaricons2.jpg</a>

All I want is a Sleep button in the Login window, is that in 10.2?

[quote]Originally posted by BuonRotto:
<strong>The Finder search window doesn't have stripes either except for the title bar.

Methinks this is pre-alpha software. </strong><hr></blockquote>

Definitely.

It's hard not to notice, though, that Apple does seem to be... let's say *moderating* the use of the pinstripes in a number of ways...

- Increased use of metal/textured
- Stripes removed from the Dock (much better, imho)
- white space in Find...

I think I agree the last is just b/c of unfinished software, but the other two are interesting.

[quote]Originally posted by Amorph:
<strong>
Make it work, then make it fast.
QuickDraw wasn't hardware accelerated for the first two years of its existence. If you disable the video driver for your OS 9 machine, you'll find that, unaccelerated, it's a whole lot slower than Quartz is.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Bullshit. I have a Voodoo3, so I can easily remove my (incomplete beta) video drivers and run on the default stuff in ROM. It's not as slow as Quartz.

Welcome, sir, that's a nice way to introduce yourself. <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />

[quote]Originally posted by BuonRotto:
<strong>Welcome, sir, that's a nice way to introduce yourself. <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>
Sorry I've been listening to CANYON.MID looped too many times tonight. I think I need some sleep. <img src="graemlins/embarrassed.gif" border="0" alt="[Embarrassed]" />

StarfleetX, could you post pics of the speech prefs pane?

I agree with Amorph. OS 9 without hardware acceleration is dog-slow. slower than quartz, and I hate it.

[quote]Originally posted by kalleboo:
<strong>
Sorry I've been listening to CANYON.MID looped too many times tonight. I think I need some sleep. <img src="graemlins/embarrassed.gif" border="0" alt="[Embarrassed]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

Quite alright then. I've been there myself.

StarfleetX, any changes to the Finder preferences? Having any issues with priviledges with the Apps folder or the Trash? Are the windows remembering their view options? And finally, if you go back one window, does it start at the top of the page or does it remember where you were down the page?

Thank you much.

starfleetX, can you print a finder window?

In list view, does the status bar (# of items) get properly updated when you open and close a folder using the disclosure triangle?

Also in list view, does sorting by Kind still slow everything down when you have lots of files?

In multi-window Finder mode, can you set it so each new window automatically has the toolbar visible when opened?

Haven't tried it recently, but can you burn a CD in iTunes when your home folder exists on a separate partition from the boot drive?

Can you drag files/folders into a minimized finder window?

[quote]Originally posted by rok:
<strong>badging the minimized windows with icons of the parent application</strong><hr></blockquote>

Hi.. what do you mean by this? are minimized windows no longer showing up to the left of the trash icon?

thanks MIKE

[quote]All I want is a Sleep button in the Login window, is that in 10.2?<hr></blockquote>Nope. Of course, you can still hit cnrtl-eject to bring up the standard dialog.
[quote]StarfleetX, could you post pics of the speech prefs pane?<hr></blockquote>Done.

<a href="http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-speech1.jpg" target="_blank">http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-speech1.jpg</a>
<a href="http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-speech2.jpg" target="_blank">http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-speech2.jpg</a>
<a href="http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-speech3.jpg" target="_blank">http://brad.project-think.com/images/Jag-speech3.jpg</a>

[quote]StarfleetX, any changes to the Finder preferences? Having any issues with priviledges with the Apps folder or the Trash? Are the windows remembering their view options? And finally, if you go back one window, does it start at the top of the page or does it remember where you were down the page?<hr></blockquote>Finder prefs are the same as in the old pics from 6B11. Nothing special.

Regarding permissions, I always kept my drive under MY control, so I never had permission problems to begin with in 10.0, 10.1 or now 10.2.

Yes, windows are remembering view options, but as above, they typically did fine under 10.1 also.

If you go "back" in a Finder window, it starts wherever you last were (ie. if you had scrolled to the bottom of the window).
[quote]can you print a finder window?<hr></blockquote>Nope. Strangely, though, hitting cmd-p brings up the Show Info window (cmd-i still works too).
[quote]In list view, does the status bar (# of items) get properly updated when you open and close a folder using the disclosure triangle?<hr></blockquote>Yup.
[quote]Also in list view, does sorting by Kind still slow everything down when you have lots of files?<hr></blockquote>Nope. It sorts much better than 10.1.x. Sorting is damn near instantaneous.
[quote]In multi-window Finder mode, can you set it so each new window automatically has the toolbar visible when opened<hr></blockquote>Yes, if you have "Always open folders in a new window" checked, the toolbar is visible if the last window had a toolbar. If the parent folder's toolbar was hidden, so will be the child's. [quote]can you burn a CD in iTunes...<hr></blockquote>My burner still isn't supported [quote]Can you drag files/folders into a minimized finder window?<hr></blockquote>Nope.

Well, I think that about covers it for me tonight. I gotta reboot into 10.1 to do some "real" work in FCP and don't want to go to the hassle of reinstalling it and hoping it'll work with 10.2. I'll answer any more questions and picture requests tomorrow.

[ 05-09-2002: Message edited by: starfleetX ]</p>