or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Software › Mac OS X › New Features in Jaguar (please post here rather than one thread per feature!)
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

New Features in Jaguar (please post here rather than one thread per feature!) - Page 9

post #321 of 339
[quote]Originally posted by SYN:
<strong>

Do tell. You can't leave us there hanging like dogs can you??? </strong><hr></blockquote>

Well, I'll tell you about the one that was briefly shown in the keynote (and explained in great detail in one the Quartz sessions).

But, before I describe the scene, I want to make it very clear what Quartz Extreme (QE) is. QE is not about graphics acceleration. It's more accurate to think of graphics acceleration as a side effect of what QE does. Quartz Extreme is literally an implementation of the Quartz Compositor in OpenGL. And, not only that, but all I/O operations are carefully coded to use DMA only (versus programmed I/O), freeing the processor from both compositing the pixels, and pushing them out to the destination device (ie: the "side effect").

And to further clarify, the term Quartz refers to two seperate elements. One is Quartz 2D. This is the 2D API that is used to draw 2D elements. The other is the Quartz Compositor. This piece is responsible for integrating and compositing the 2D, 3D, and media elements generated by Quartz 2D, OpenGL, and QuickTime. Quartz Extreme deals with the Quartz Compositor, not Quartz 2D. So, to reiterate, Quartz Extreme does not accelerate Quartz 2D.


(the popular view of graphics in Mac OS X)


(what's actually there)

So, on to the demo in the keynote.

During the keynote, the primary demo used to show off the power of the Quartz Compositor involved the compositing of several layers of raw motion pictures from a movie, to create a scene (sorry, can't remember which movie it's from). Now, this doesn't sound too terribly complex, does it? You're probably thinking, "Final Cut Pro can do that now with its real-time effects!" Well, here's what made this hard (read: impossible) to do before, in real-time, without additional add-on cards.

The scene consisted of 5 layers:
  • -one background plate with the "sky" and background scenery
    -one back ground plate of a train station, with green screen where the sky and environment should show through
    -two layers of actors, on stages, in front of a green screen
    -one layer of a model train, on a stage, in front of a green screen

During the keynote, these five layers were composited, with garbage mattes, chroma keys and colour correction, all in real time! It doesn't sound as impressive with me describing it here, but try this in After Effects and it would take hours to render! Remember: real-time!

However, during one of the Quartz session I attended, this demo was went over in greater detail, with even more complexity added to the scene. So, what was added?
  • -the angle on the two plates of actors, and the train station were off. The actors were skewed, rotated, and scaled to match, in real time.
    -three floating, rotating, transparent 3D objects were added
    -realtime scrolling credits were added to the scene

You had to have seen it, to fully understand how incredible this was.

As for the DVD demo movie that was posted earlier today, a similar demo was shown at WWDC. However, it involved a DVD movie, 20 transparent terminal windows (which is actually 40 transparent layers in the Quartz Compositor), and the same 3 floating, rotating, transparent 3D objects floating above all that. For comparison, it's not even possible to composite the volume indicator in front of a DVD in 10.1.4!

I wish I could tell you guys everything about QE. But, if I did that, I probably wouldn't be able to get stuff from Apple anymore.

But, the point is: do not think of Quartz Extreme as graphics acceleration, think of Quartz Extreme as a graphics compositor on steroids^(squared). As I said, the "graphics acceleration" is more of a side effect, despite the exponential increase in complexity that Quartz Extreme allows. Another note: all the new OpenGL extensions required to make the QE version of the Quartz Compositor are also available to developers. So, it's really up to the developers to come up with interesting (eg: 40 terminals over a DVD) and useful (eg: the film compositing demo) ways to use this new power.

(edit: minor reformatting)
(edit June 17, 2002: updated image src)

[ 06-17-2002: Message edited by: King Chung Huang ]</p>
post #322 of 339
[quote]Originally posted by King Chung Huang:
<strong>So, it's really up to the developers to come up with intersting (eg: 40 terminals over a DVD) and useful (eg: the film compositing demo) ways to use this new power.</strong><hr></blockquote>Man, oh man... thinking back to the acquisition of Nothing Real, this could mean awesome things for Final Cut Pro. Woo-hoo!!

Thanks for the details, King!
post #323 of 339
[quote]Originally posted by starfleetX:
<strong>Man, oh man... thinking back to the acquisition of Nothing Real, this could mean awesome things for Final Cut Pro. Woo-hoo!!</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yup, that's exactly what I thought after the end of the week. It's all starting to make sense. Apple may not have the sheer processor power to compete with the other guys, but that has forced Apple to be creative and resourceful with what they already have, and the results should be stunning.

[quote]<strong>Thanks for the details, King! </strong><hr></blockquote>

You're welcome.
post #324 of 339
[quote]Originally posted by King Chung Huang:
<strong>So, to reiterate, Quartz Extreme does not accelerate Quartz 2D.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Before somebody panics or yells heresy about this line thinking that we're never going to have decent 2D acceleration in Mac OS X, let me say this: Although Quartz Extreme does not accelerate Quartz 2D, Apple has not been standing still in terms of accelerating 2D operations. So, fear not!
post #325 of 339
To be perfectly honest, my line of thinking was that the folks who were complaining about lack of QE (QX?) on their older systems now have something to really complain about. QE seemed like a gimmick to give the system a speed boost(well, gimmick is too strong a word), but now it sounds like a hell of a lot more. I'd be kinda pissed to be out of the loop on this one! But then again, who expected an iBook to do this real-time heavy compositing type stuff?

Well, in any case, thanks!
post #326 of 339
[quote]Originally posted by BuonRotto:
<strong>To be perfectly honest, my line of thinking was that the folks who were complaining about lack of QE (QX?) on their older systems now have something to really complain about.</strong><hr></blockquote>

It is always unfortunate when backwards compatibility is sacrificed or lost. Personally, I applause Apple for taking such a bold move this time around and taking the bleeding edge when it comes to graphics capabilities, especially since Apple is the "leader" for graphics. In fact, the real-time blue-screening demo that I mentioned above only* works on GeForce4 Titanium video cards. Now, how many of those are out there?

(* "only" refers to the implementation demonstrated; it does not necessarily mean that other video cards are completely incapable of performing real-time chroma keys)

[ 05-21-2002: Message edited by: King Chung Huang ]</p>
post #327 of 339
The most interesting feature to me is the ability to drag minimized windows out of the dock and leave them on the desktop, still minimized, app badges still intact. I know that it's been mentioned before, but I actually saw it in action today and I'm in love! I wish I could get the window to minimize back to that spot rather than to the dock afterwards. I guess I'm easy to impress, but I thought that there could be some really useful implementations of this feature. Such as 'stacking' windows on top of one another and then making them a 'package'. You know, you're working on several documents/files simultaneously for a project. If I could place them in a particular spot on the desktop and then make them a bundle of some sort, then have a contextual menu to move between them, it would be great! Is this possible or am I talking gibberish (quite possible after staring at BBEdit long enough to think that the syntax colors are purty)?
post #328 of 339
I agree that, in concept, the mini windows are a cool feature. I hope they expand on the possibilities here such as (we mentioned this in a previous thread) "magnetic" edges, piles, expanding and minimizing in place, contextual clicks, some possible variation on single-window mode (single big-window mode?) -- some way to help the user organize themselves better and provide more funcationality to each window for advanced users.
post #329 of 339
Question: how big are these mini windows? Do they stay the size of the Dock icons, or do they become full 128 x 128 pixel size?
post #330 of 339
[quote]Originally posted by BuonRotto:
<strong>\\I hope they expand on the possibilities here such as (we mentioned this in a previous thread) "magnetic" edges, piles...</strong><hr></blockquote>

Mmm. Piles. Memories of Copland...

As I recall, Apple's human interface group wrote up a paper about the concept of "piles" for Mac OS 8 (Copland). I still think it's a great idea, and it certainly sounds like Mac OS X could be easily extended to support this unique organizational methodology.
post #331 of 339
I'm still gob smacked by the Quartz Extreme demo I saw.

:eek:

Lemon Bon Bon
We do it because Steve Jobs is the supreme defender of the Macintosh faith, someone who led Apple back from the brink of extinction just four years ago. And we do it because his annual keynote is...
Reply
We do it because Steve Jobs is the supreme defender of the Macintosh faith, someone who led Apple back from the brink of extinction just four years ago. And we do it because his annual keynote is...
Reply
post #332 of 339
Thread Starter 
Now this sounds like a next generation OS. :cool:

I can hardly wait.
"...within intervention's distance of the embassy." - CvB

Original music:
The Mayflies - Black earth Americana. Now on iTMS!
Becca Sutlive - Iowa Fried Rock 'n Roll - now on iTMS!
Reply
"...within intervention's distance of the embassy." - CvB

Original music:
The Mayflies - Black earth Americana. Now on iTMS!
Becca Sutlive - Iowa Fried Rock 'n Roll - now on iTMS!
Reply
post #333 of 339
(Wrote this in another thread, but I suppose it applies to this as well...)


I guess this little detail Apple has put into the Unix-based OS X is the ultimate answer to the ultimate question in another forum (the question being: WTF happened to our OS?!)...

It's getting better and better.

What Apple has done with the Unix underpinning is absolutely amazing. From the potentionally unimaginably powerful Quartz Extreme to the user-friendly kernal panic, I'd like to go out on a limb and say that OS X is coming along just nicely, eh?
post #334 of 339
Does terminal now support more characters like å (aring) and ö (odiaeresis). It's kinda a pain to not be able to name or display files properly in the term, and apple makes a big deal of X's multilinguistics.
Does teminal support colours. I think colour listing is very useful. xterm does both (on linux, anyway), so it can't be THAT hard to do, can it?
or is the problem with darwin rather than the terminal app?

[ 05-26-2002: Message edited by: LowB-ing ]</p>
post #335 of 339
Never mind anything else about Jaguar - it has spring loaded folders again! Woo hoo! I always missed that feature when copying files into my backup foler and stuff, good to have it back! The rest of the features look cool too, can't wait!

Anyone any idea when jaguar will be out by the way? I know I am a little behdin the times perhaps, and this is common knowledge, but will it be out at MYNY? The fact that it is being shown on the Apple site suggests it will be, can anyone confirm this? Thanks
Graeme D Warren
Reply
Graeme D Warren
Reply
post #336 of 339
i don't know if somebody has already post this but... in Disk First Aid you have the choice to verify and fix permissions !
"I like workin on my Mac to jazz. A pianist doesn't spend time peeking inside the piano." Neville Brody
Reply
"I like workin on my Mac to jazz. A pianist doesn't spend time peeking inside the piano." Neville Brody
Reply
post #337 of 339
What about monitor spanning where one monitor is hooked up to an AGP card and one is hooked up to a PCI card? What happens to the video playing on both? How does QE work with that?

[ 05-28-2002: Message edited by: wwwork ]</p>
post #338 of 339
[quote]Originally posted by wwwork:
<strong>What about monitor spanning where one monitor is hooked up to an AGP card and one is hooked up to a PCI card? What happens to the video playing on both? Does that work?</strong><hr></blockquote>

I have only used a dual-monitor setup on windows up to now, but at least there the video only ever plays on one screen at once (i.e. if you move the movie window so it has parts on both screens, the part on one display will play as normal, and the part on the other one will just be black. At least that's how it worked on a Radeon VE w/ 2 monitors attached.

Bye,
RazzFazz
post #339 of 339
[quote]Originally posted by BuonRotto:
<strong>Question: how big are these mini windows? Do they stay the size of the Dock icons, or do they become full 128 x 128 pixel size?</strong><hr></blockquote>

I did it once, don't like it but they stay kinda small. Not sure it it's relative to your icon settings for the desktop or what, but yes, I'd say they become icons.

Alsom anyone use the finder to search? Sherlock no longer searches files, and when you search in the finder, the finder window turns into sherlock-like. The preview pane (at the bottom) slides out, and all. The bad thing, is it searches the drive you selected in, so not sure how to search all mounted disk, maybe selecting them all at root then searching...
All Your PCs Are Belong To Trash
Reply
All Your PCs Are Belong To Trash
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Mac OS X
AppleInsider › Forums › Software › Mac OS X › New Features in Jaguar (please post here rather than one thread per feature!)