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Video speed test: 2.5G EDGE iPhone vs. mock 3G HSDPA iPhone - Page 3

post #81 of 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

We really could use some insight on patent law around here whenever a new patent from Apple or lawsuit pertaining to an Apple product comes out.

Sounds like you are questioning those home made macs for sale. This one will be interesting to watch. I look at it this way: Apple is going to be much better equipped legally (obviously) due to their deep pockets. At the end of the day, it is not so much about the money, but about the case (as my two small offices would like to believe). Apple has a lot of support from the courts lately with the current decisions regarding EULA's and the scores of cases won by the RRIA against websites and individuals to move forward with a case. Where they may get hit is the comparison to the anti-trust cases filed against Microsoft a while back. One obvious connection is the courts requiring Microsoft to permit other applications other than their proprietary lot on to the system on prefabricated/preinstalled windows computers. Apple does this too, but people who buy Apple, love Apple. Plus, Apple tends to put more useful default applications on their computers. The court needs to see the Mac environment as its own environment that Apple has exclusive control over, thus creating a monopoly over that environment. If the universe includes desktop/laptop computers in general, then you are never forced to use an Apple computer in order to use a computer since there is competition between Apple, Microsoft and other computer manufacturers. I think is it somewhat BS to force someone to use and Apple computer to run a Mac OS, however, Jobs' tight grip over what can be put on the iPhone makes perfect sense. How many of us that had a Palm Treo would put untested third party apps on the damn thing to watch it go in an endless reset loop? What was looked at as overbearing and controlling by some, was smart to keep a product reliable and functioning well. Same with Apple computers. We designed the Mac OS to run on our products. Don't bring some other junk in to make our hard work look like it doesn't work at all. Additionally, Microsoft does not prevent anyone from using bootcamp and VMware and other sorts of dual boot software. I would think that this type freedom to add the Mac OS to another machine might appeal to Apple's freeform/ease of use interface style.

Sorry for the longwinded off topic post.
post #82 of 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicegoogly View Post

Sounds like you are questioning those home made macs for sale.

That was the last one from my mind. I'm talking amore about the AI articles where Apple is accused of using technology that someone else patented and the articles where a new Apple patent comes up that has been used by others for some time. AU articles regarding patents

If Apple sues "Pshystar" or cease and desist letters they will look like the bad guy, but I don't think Apple is worried about it right now. Despite Psystar's sketchy start their machines are still questionable.

They send you the $129 copy of Leopard unopenedbecause you need an OSx86 versionwhich I think they sell you for $150. So if you need to reinstall Leopard you have to pull out the HDD and ship it to them. They then have access to al your files so you could save a few bucks on a garage-built machine that doesn't have the more optimized drivers and where getting the device fixed under warranty will be a crap shoot.

Plus, you can't setup BootCamp, use the Leopard Install DIsc, or update the OS and a good deal of the Apps. It also doesn't come with any iLife apps. My point is, I don't think Apple is worried about them; The vast other home built OSx86 projects will certainly trump what Psystar can sell. SWIM has been using a Dell as home server running OS X for a couple years now.It works great!

I think they realized that litigation may stall them but not solve the larger problem. I suspect that they may be working with Intel, or perhaps with P.A. Semi now, to use HW authentication to make the clones harder to crack.


Quote:
Additionally, Microsoft does not prevent anyone from using bootcamp and VMware and other sorts of dual boot software. I would think that this type freedom to add the Mac OS to another machine might appeal to Apple's freeform/ease of use interface style.

But MS makes money from their OS. They don't produce desktop hardware (save for their mice). Apple bread and butter is the HW so virtual OS X isn't an attractive option to Apple, especially if they were to be required to supply support for all the drivers of the various HW that MS has to deal with.

When Vista first came out MS did try to enforce via the EULA that only the more expensive copies could be used virtually. This was recently changed, probably as a result of poor Vista sales

Though, Leopard Server now allows virtualization, so some things have changed.

Quote:
Sorry for the longwinded off topic post.

Longwinded is fine, it's the lack of paragraphs that we get upset with.
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post #83 of 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

Hi kickaha,

Your post was equally as well stated. The thing is, I never said the iPhone was crap. It is far from it. It is however not the revolutionary device (my opinion) that many here (some of them blind followers) think. It is an evolutionary device. It was the logical next step. It builds a stable bridge from the desktop to a mobile device, and it does it well. Nokia products, are designed to be an extension of your office in your pocket. They perform this function quite well also. The iPhone and the Nokia devices are simply not comparable in my view as they serve different functions. I would not like to listen to music or watch a movie on my N82 even though I can, but I do like the VoIP, Skype, Fring, plethora of applications that I can use to make my working experience pretty decent. The same can be said of the iPhone. Movies, music, audio books, browsing, the iPhone wins clearly. But can I send biz cards, do vCard, vCal (not sure if they added this to be honest in 1.1.4), VoIP calls, decent quality pics, MMS (do not use often but when I need it, I really need it). How about saving docs for later emailing? These are the basics features in a so-called smartphone and the iPhone lacks them. Without even going down the 3G road again, this is also missing. To ignore this and continue the "iPhone = smartphone) is a lack of understanding. This shows in the European sales. Clearly they have a better understanding of what biz needs (well European needs) are as opposed to the US biz market.

OK, but as Kickaha was saying, my point is that Apple is in a pretty good position to add functionality as they feel it is needed, or let third party developers do so.

And the important thing is this: they can add functionality within the context of a carefully thought out, desktop derived OS and UI, so that that functionality is easy to access, use and integrate-- not just with the rest of the iPhone apps but with the larger world of OS X and its desktop apps, iTunes, and things like movie rentals that can move between devices.

So, again everything you say about the current iteration of the iPhone may somewhat true, but the real story is what Apple can do going forward.

It still seems to me that what Apple has is a small form factor computer, with all that implies in terms of rapid rollouts of OS updates, flexibility, depth of interoperability, consistency of UI and interactions across apps, etc. That underlying power is only going to become more evident as the horsepower of these things keeps increasing. The distinction between desktop and palmtop devices is going to be mostly a matter of UI, and Apple has arguably the best thought out UI of the breed, atop a mature, well supported and very powerful OS.

Nokia has an extended phone OS, originally designed to run on far more constrained hardware. At some point, that becomes a problem if what the market is demanding is tiny general purpose computers, where telephony is a feature.

The situation is analogous to if Adobe had been a maker of really good stand alone graphics appliances, running their very good application suite, in a world where stand alone graphics appliances are the only game in town, due to historical hardware constraints. Over time they've managed to allow third party apps on these appliances, to extend their usefulness, but basically these are single purpose machines which have been modified and extended to meet a gradually growing demand for more general purpose devices.

Then someone comes along and makes a personal computer. It doesn't do graphics as well as the Adobe kit, but it does a lot of other stuff, and is far more flexible and open ended in its underlying design philosophy. Still, a lot of people dismiss the newcomer, because they persist in thinking of all computing machines as being intrinsically graphics appliances, and Adobe has demonstrated mastery at that game.

So Adobe has core expertise in their field, and in this scenario let's figure they've been building pretty good hardware to run their stuff. But do you really want to bet on them carrying the day, when it comes time to compete with a actual computers that were designed as such from the beginning? Will they be able to work their way out of the collection of apps and UI bits that they've been calling an "operating system", and do it without breaking compatibility with all that came before? Do it fast enough to compete with a real OS?

Apple is a computer company. Nokia is a phone company. If the future belongs to computers that can make calls, is it easier for the computer company to figure out how to make telephony apps, or the phone company to figure out how to make computers?
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post #84 of 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post


Nokia has an extended phone OS, originally designed to run on far more constrained hardware. At some point, that becomes a problem if what the market is demanding is tiny general purpose computers, where telephony is a feature.



Apple is a computer company. Nokia is a phone company. If the future belongs to computers that can make calls, is it easier for the computer company to figure out how to make telephony apps, or the phone company to figure out how to make computers?


Great post. I agree with 99.99% of it except the final "figuring out". Both Nokia and Apple will simply buy the expertise that they need to get a jump start on the market. I would have assumed (I could be wrong), that Apple had done this. Surely they, would have gone to the #1 phone maker on the market and pouched some of their talent.

The next few months, will be interesting. Nokia will be putting forward a TS UI device with music store, while Apple will hopefully launch a true smartphone. Either way, get you pennies ready. All this fun will probably be expensive.
post #85 of 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

Are you some sort of ignoramus?

Originally Posted by Abster2core
But at what cost? For example, battery life. Will it be a problem? Is the attached article still relevant?


http://www.anandtech.com/printarticle.aspx?i=3036

I asked a question based on supposedly expert knowledge. It wasn't my opinion. I don't know and didn't know the answer, that is why I threw it out there. Obviously you have a problem reading and understanding English.

The difference between your "article" and my facts are quite simple. I went to the source. In my capacity working for the DS, I can get the opportunities to meet with GSM operators, phone manufacturers and ask them questions on and off the record. I also have resources from my prior life in the GSM/software development arena. I showed them your article. It is probably in one of the stalls being used for toilet paper. They all came back with one baseline fact. The article is based on US phones, US networks with most likely US components derived by Motorola. 3G has been around in Europe for a bit longer and the networks are pretty well optimized for max performance.

How is my english now? Maybe comprehension is your problem.
post #86 of 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

I am here to educate you.

Class in session. As I have stated several times throughout this thread and forum, I work for the US State Department but am currently living in Europe on assignment. Get a passport and travel before making a blanket assessment about someone. Anyway, I have had the advantage of working in the telecoms industry on the operator and software developer side (this was mentioned in this very thread). I will include pictures next time. I have also had the pleasure of using almost every smartphone/mobile phone device type since the middle 90's when Nokia came out with the original Communicator, Ericsson with the R380, various Psion devices, and so on. I would say this makes me more than "clever" but knowledgeable and able to speak with some confidence about a subject I am quite familiar with. What's your excuse?

It seems that anytime, anyone does not tow the "Apple, Apple uber alles", party line this person is either biased, Apple haters, stupid in some cases, etc.....

You work for the US State Department. As such, you feel that it entitles you to educate belittle and berate anybody that says even anything positive about Apples?

I would suggest that, like hell you do.

If you did work for the U.S. Department of State, not the US State Department as you erroneously called it, you wouldn't have made the last comment, or one of your previous diplomatic proclamations, "Apple produces it, Stevie Boy sells it, and the lemmings buy it."
post #87 of 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

The difference between your "article" and my facts are quite simple. I went to the source. In my capacity working for the DS, I can get the opportunities to meet with GSM operators, phone manufacturers and ask them questions on and off the record. I also have resources from my prior life in the GSM/software development arena. I showed them your article. It is probably in one of the stalls being used for toilet paper. They all came back with one baseline fact. The article is based on US phones, US networks with most likely US components derived by Motorola. 3G has been around in Europe for a bit longer and the networks are pretty well optimized for max performance.

How is my english now? Maybe comprehension is your problem.

I asked for an opinion on what seemed to be a highly intelligent review. I didn't expect anybody to lambaste me for making a query.

And to your explanation, I would suggest that it is an outright falsehood. You never showed it to anybody, like most things you pretend to do.
post #88 of 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

I asked for an opinion on what seemed to be a highly intelligent review. I didn't expect anybody to lambaste me for making a query.

And to your explanation, I would suggest that it is an outright falsehood. You never showed it to anybody, like most things you pretend to do.

There is this new thing as Prez Bush called it. The Internets... They have this other thing called email. Forward the link. Ever hear of that?
post #89 of 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

Ah the sign of a losing argument, fall back to semantics. News flash, those of us that do work at State (one name for it that we insiders call it), or State Department, or Department of State, or DS (not to be confused with Diplomatic Security).

I think your hair is in a tizzy. it is the Apple Thought Police (yourself included) that scour these threads looking for anything not Apple friendly. Anything that does not proclaim allegiance to ze fazer-land will be meet by ze storm troopers in their Jack boots. As I have said on several occasions, but I will go slow for you, "I own several Apple products and am pleased with them", however I have the right no THINK DIFFERENT about them and can say so. If you do not like my posts, by all means hit the "Report Post" button and take it up with someone that cares.

With that being the case, I would suggest that you "foxtrot oscar" and stop wasting my time.

Another sign of losing an argument is to insult, impugn and demean those that disagree with you, which you have done repeatedly in this thread.

You say you cite facts, but I don't remember you providing any information to corroborate your facts. If the things you say are true, then it should be easy to provide source references. It's unreasonable for you to expect us to accept what you say if you're unwilling to cite specific references. Doubly so if you repeatedly insult people that don't readily accept what you say just because you say so.
post #90 of 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Another sign of losing an argument is to insult, impugn and demean those that disagree with you, which you have done repeatedly in this thread.

You say you cite facts, but I don't remember you providing any information to corroborate your facts. If the things you say are true, then it should be easy to provide source references. It's unreasonable for you to expect us to accept what you say if you're unwilling to cite specific references. Doubly so if you repeatedly insult people that don't readily accept what you say just because you say so.

You seem to think that anything I say or you actually matters. If you do not like what I say or do not want to believe it, don't. I posted links to the Nokia site showing their smartphone product listing. As far as I know this was the only link that I stated as being factual. By all means, please clue me in.
post #91 of 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

Anything insulting in his direction was a result of this.

"He started it first" is not an excuse. As far as I'm concerned, it's the pot calling the kettle black.

Quote:
Which facts are you talking about?

How about you be specific in why the Anand article was "toilet paper"? At least it was a cited reference, more than I've ever seen you cite in any discussion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

You seem to think that anything I say or you actually matters. If you do not like what I say or do not want to believe it, don't. I posted links to the Nokia site showing their smartphone product listing. As far as I know this was the only link that I stated as being factual. By all means, please clue me in.

I didn't say that you're lying, but it's more believable if you can cite a reference.
post #92 of 259
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post #93 of 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

"He started it first" is not an excuse. As far as I'm concerned, it's the pot calling the kettle black.



How about you be specific in why the Anand article was "toilet paper"? At least it was a cited reference, more than I've ever seen you cite in any discussion.



I didn't say that you're lying, but it's more believable if you can cite a reference.


*********This is what I said exactly ***********

#####It is probably in one of the stalls being used for toilet paper. They all came back with one baseline fact. The article is based on US phones, US networks with most likely US components derived by Motorola. 3G has been around in Europe for a bit longer and the networks are pretty well optimized for max performance.######

Note the word, "probably", and note the rest of the statement. Where they, the resources I know at Nokia and SE, thought the article was crap. My only opinion came in when referring to the restroom toilet facilities. Would going there taking a picture with a printed copy of the article on the floor qualify as proof?
post #94 of 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

Note the word, "probably", and note the rest of the statement. Where they, the resources I know at Nokia and SE, thought the article was crap. My only opinion came in when referring to the restroom toilet facilities. Would going there taking a picture with a printed copy of the article on the floor qualify as proof?

No, I just wanted to better understand *why* they thought it was crap, not what they did with it. As you said before, opinions are usually worthless. I've not seen that kind of battery life comparison done anywhere else, but then, I really don't spend much time thinking about mobile phone circuitry.
post #95 of 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

No, I just wanted to better understand *why* they thought it was crap, not what they did with it. As you said before, opinions are usually worthless. I've not seen that kind of battery life comparison done anywhere else, but then, I really don't spend much time thinking about mobile phone circuitry.

The guys I spoke with were network designers, and one was a phone designer/engineer (he prefers to consider himself an artist)

Anyway, they all said the test was aimed at US phones, with US networks were as Asian, European, and Mid Eastern 3G networks were more or less the same. Much of this was way over my head, but I understood some of it. In the end, they said that if a Nokia with a 1050 mAh 3.7v battery can run a phone all day with 3G, the iPhone should be able to last all day as well. They felt the lack of 3G was marketing hype because AT&T didn't have the network at the time and Apple wanted the phone out there.

Who knows?

By the way, as an aside. I have written several times that I like your post as they tend to be insightful. I have no truck against you or anyone here, however until Lundy or someone else in authority says that I can not express my opinions I will continue. I may be passionate about what I believe but I can 99.9999999999999999999999999% assure you that anything I say here, I have either lived it, seen it, will do it, etc.... I rarely will jump into a conversation without knowing what I am talking about.
post #96 of 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

One Apple iPhone owner has posted to YouTube a video shootout that pits an iPhone running on a 2.5G EDGE network against one rigged with 3G HSDPA access in a simulated speed test.

The mock 3G iPhone was connected via WiFi to an iMac whose internet connection was supplied with a HSDPA modem and then shared, while the traditional 2.5G iPhone was run on a standard overseas EDGE wireless network.

Based on the test results, which are largely theoretical given fluctuations in mobile wireless speeds from region to region and provider to provider, the 3G iPhone loaded the same web page as the 2.5G iPhone in nearly half the time.


This is not accurate. Ad-Hoc networking uses 802.11b as the transmission standard. 802.11b has a maximum raw data rate of 11 Mbit/s and uses the same CSMA/CA media access method defined in the original standard. Due to the CSMA/CA protocol overhead, in practice the maximum 802.11b throughput that an application can achieve is about 5.9 Mbit/s using TCP and 7.1 Mbit/s using UDP. Industry sources state that 3G can be expected to provide 384 Kbps at or below pedestrian speeds, but only 128 Kbps in a moving car. This is an extreme differnce from what was displayed in this video. Nice try but next time check your facts.... The 3G would be waaay faster than the other.
post #97 of 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by drwho4 View Post

The 3G would be waaay faster than the other.

Could you clarify as to why you think HSDPA would be way faster than EDGE? I assume by way faster you mean more than 2x faster.
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post #98 of 259
sapporobaby, yes we all continue to say "Look what Apple is going to do with the iPhone".

But soon, oh so very very soon, we will be saying "Look what Apple did with the iPhone".

And Nokia will be down for the count.

addabox, you are EXACTLY right. The future is mobile computing, and who better to make computers than Apple? Nokia got their dominance by making cheap phones. Apple's dominance will be based on...................OSX
post #99 of 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Could you clarify as to why you think HSDPA would be way faster than EDGE? I assume by way faster you mean more than 2x faster.

Here you go:

HSDPA

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-hsdpa.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HSDPA

EDGE

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhance..._GSM_Evolution

http://www.nokiasiemensnetworks.com/...data_speed.htm

http://www.tech-faq.com/edge.shtml
post #100 of 259

I know the theoretical speeds of the different technologies, but this doesn't explain why he thinks it should be "waaay faster." There are many things to consider when doing real world tests and having a radio a theoretical ceiling of 7.2MB/s doesn't mean you're going to get "waaay faster" speeds over EDGE just because it's in there.
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post #101 of 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

That was the last one from my mind. I'm talking amore about the AI articles where Apple is accused of using technology that someone else patented and the articles where a new Apple patent comes up that has been used by others for some time. AU articles regarding patents

If Apple sues "Pshystar" or cease and desist letters they will look like the bad guy, but I don't think Apple is worried about it right now. Despite Psystar's sketchy start their machines are still questionable.

They send you the $129 copy of Leopard unopenedbecause you need an OSx86 versionwhich I think they sell you for $150. So if you need to reinstall Leopard you have to pull out the HDD and ship it to them. They then have access to al your files so you could save a few bucks on a garage-built machine that doesn't have the more optimized drivers and where getting the device fixed under warranty will be a crap shoot.

Plus, you can't setup BootCamp, use the Leopard Install DIsc, or update the OS and a good deal of the Apps. It also doesn't come with any iLife apps. My point is, I don't think Apple is worried about them; The vast other home built OSx86 projects will certainly trump what Psystar can sell. SWIM has been using a Dell as home server running OS X for a couple years now.It works great!

I think they realized that litigation may stall them but not solve the larger problem. I suspect that they may be working with Intel, or perhaps with P.A. Semi now, to use HW authentication to make the clones harder to crack.



But MS makes money from their OS. They don't produce desktop hardware (save for their mice). Apple bread and butter is the HW so virtual OS X isn't an attractive option to Apple, especially if they were to be required to supply support for all the drivers of the various HW that MS has to deal with.

When Vista first came out MS did try to enforce via the EULA that only the more expensive copies could be used virtually. This was recently changed, probably as a result of poor Vista sales

Though, Leopard Server now allows virtualization, so some things have changed.


Longwinded is fine, it's the lack of paragraphs that we get upset with.

As far as Apple's patent issues will probably be settled out of court. Sony, for years, had a patent infringement case some time ago regarding their rumble technology in their playstation controllers and payed out the better part of 90 million dollars. Sometimes great companies need to crib from other creators. They just need to open their wallet a little faster to not look so redfaced. The litigation costs on this nonsense is astronomical, they may look to deal if the patent holders are reasonable.

Not the first time Apple has gotten singed: iTunes led the way for protected and properly purchased music. Then they were sued by Eminem for using his song without permission in their commercial. They dealt him out with some cash and a promotion on iTunes of his greatest hit album.

Also, I agree with your assessment of garage built macs. If you want a quality product, pay the damn money.
post #102 of 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

They (Pystar) send you the $129 copy of Leopard unopened

Perhaps not in all cases

"The included copy of Leopard was out of the shrinkwrap, but there's no way to install it -- it shows up in Startup Disk but it won't restart, and it's not recognized at boot." *

This suggests that the copy was likely opened, which as you rightfully implied isn't useful unless one has a real Mac to use it in.

*Hands-on test of Mac Cloner Psystars Open Computer reveals: Its LOUD. Crazy loud. http://macdailynews.com/index.php/we...omments/17159/
post #103 of 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by one9deuce View Post

sapporobaby, yes we all continue to say "Look what Apple is going to do with the iPhone".

But soon, oh so very very soon, we will be saying "Look what Apple did with the iPhone".

And Nokia will be down for the count.

addabox, you are EXACTLY right. The future is mobile computing, and who better to make computers than Apple? Nokia got their dominance by making cheap phones. Apple's dominance will be based on...................OSX

Apple and others have been Nokia killers for as long as there were phones. At one time Ericsson was one paycheck away from buying Nokia, and look where things are now. If you are deluded enough to think that Nokia will simply sit by and not make a fight of the game proves that you lack the understanding involved to see products on a global scale.

Nokia has the cash, and the knowledge to compete against Apple on a one to one, technology to technology level. I am sorry for you if you have only seen inexpensive Nokia phones and this is your basis for world domination. Mobile computing has been a part of Nokia's portfolio for quite a while. Ever hear of the N770, N800, N810, N810 WiMax, Nokia Communicators? There are all mobile computers. Some with touch screens, some without, some smart phones, some Internet Tablets. You seeming limited exposure to higher end products is a classic example what the iPhone is failing in Europe. It is an unsophisticated being sold in a highly sophisticated market. Apple was smart to start small and then think larger.
post #104 of 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I know the theoretical speeds of the different technologies, but this doesn't explain why he thinks it should be "waaay faster." There are many things to consider when doing real world tests and having a radio a theoretical ceiling of 7.2MB/s doesn't mean you're going to get "waaay faster" speeds over EDGE just because it's in there.

What? Of course HSPA is faster than EDGE. For the same available signal quality it delivers greater bandwidth. It uses more efficient encoding which packs more data into the same amount of spectrum.

I can't believe you're even having the discussion.
post #105 of 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by merdhead View Post

What? Of course HSPA is faster than EDGE. For the same available signal quality it delivers greater bandwidth. It uses more efficient encoding which packs more data into the same amount of spectrum.

I can't believe you're even having the discussion.

What do you mean by "What?" And what discussion are you talking about? The idea that having a 3G radio in a device means you get a certain data rate is an illogical assumption. I clearly stated that I am aware of the theoretical speeds of the different technologies; when did I state that HSPA was slower than EDGE?
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post #106 of 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by merdhead View Post

What? Of course HSPA is faster than EDGE. For the same available signal quality it delivers greater bandwidth. It uses more efficient encoding which packs more data into the same amount of spectrum.

I can't believe you're even having the discussion.

I do not think he is implying EDGE is faster than HSDPA. However, if you look at a couple of the links I supplied, you will see that Nokia (the company that many think will be dominated by Apple - don't make me laugh) has raised the previous speeds of EDGE. I think he was just making a comparison.
post #107 of 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

I do not think he is implying EDGE is faster than HSDPA. However, if you look at a couple of the links I supplied, you will see that Nokia (the company that many think will be dominated by Apple - don't make me laugh) has raised the previous speeds of EDGE. I think he was just making a comparison.

I didn't say or imply once that EDGE was faster, I was only statingapparently poorlythat having a 3G radio in a consumer device does not mean you'll get 3G speeds or that webpages will load in at a rate proportional to the theoretical speeds that can be achieved by different cell technologies. That there are many other factors that determine the actual time it takes for a page to load. Hence my original question to Drwho4 as to why he thinks it should be "waaay faster."
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post #108 of 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I didn't say or imply once that EDGE was faster, I was only statingapparently poorlythat having a 3G radio in a consumer device does not mean you'll get 3G speeds or that webpages will load in at a rate proportional to the theoretical speeds that can be achieved by different cell technologies. That there are many other factors that determine the actual time it takes for a page to load. Hence my original question to Drwho4 as to why he thinks it should be "waaay faster."

I think you got mixed up here. I was agreeing with you in reply to Drwho4's reply.

In pure data transfers, HSDPA will simply smoke EDGE. As you said there are many factors that can determine how web pages are rendered. Data speeds are just one factor.
post #109 of 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

Apple and others have been Nokia killers for as long as there were phones. At one time Ericsson was one paycheck away from buying Nokia, and look where things are now. If you are deluded enough to think that Nokia will simply sit by and not make a fight of the game proves that you lack the understanding involved to see products on a global scale.


NO MORE PERSONAL ATTACKS. Last warning.
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post #110 of 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by lundy View Post

NO MORE PERSONAL ATTACKS. Last warning.

What was I thinking. Yes of course Nokia will be dominated by a company with only one crippled product. Tomorrow flags in Helsinki will be flown at half mast in honor of Apple driving them out of business with an iPod that can make calls. Huge layoffs globally are expected. Steve Jobs has decreed from on high he will personally give each layed off employee one million dollars from petty cash. Steve Jobs is looking to move into the roll of master of the universe on a full time basis. More to come.
post #111 of 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

What was I thinking. Yes of course Nokia will be dominated by a company with only one crippled product. [...]

Replying to a forum moderator with sarcasm isn't wise.
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post #112 of 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Replying to a forum moderator with sarcasm isn't wise.

Hey Solipsism,

I am not angry at Lundy. He is doing a pretty thankless job for the most part and he is pretty much right. I just was having a bit of fun. I realized as I wrote it that I highlighted his response instead of the other one. I wrote it from my phone so I did not feel like going back to correct it, but you have a point.

Thanks in advance.
post #113 of 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

I do not think he is implying EDGE is faster than HSDPA. However, if you look at a couple of the links I supplied, you will see that Nokia (the company that many think will be dominated by Apple - don't make me laugh) has raised the previous speeds of EDGE. I think he was just making a comparison.

The enhanced EDGE isn't actually deployed anywhere, so its besides the point. The fact is that EDGE tops out at about 240Kbps and HSPA at 1.8 or 3.6Mbps. It's "waaay" faster. Saying that rendering means it makes less difference is meaningless. So does the server you are downloading from, congestion on the internet and the type of content you are downloading. Conversely you might be downloading a movie or file or they might put a faster processor in the 3G model and rendering will have no or less affect. The point is that the data transfer is significantly faster with HSPA and that impacts significantly on performance.
post #114 of 259
So because you are not permitted to impugn solipsism's capacity to understand something, then that prohibits you from making your argument about Nokia and the iPhone?

Make any argument you want about Nokia.
Make any argument you want about the iPhone.

Do not make any argument about someone's ability to understand something. That is irrelevant and against the posting guidelines.

I suppose I could make an argument about your ability to understand what constitutes a personal attack, but that would itself be a personal attack, so I won't make that argument.
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post #115 of 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by merdhead View Post

The enhanced EDGE isn't actually deployed anywhere, so its besides the point. The fact is that EDGE tops out at about 240Kbps and HSPA at 1.8 or 3.6Mbps. It's "waaay" faster. Saying that rendering means it makes less difference is meaningless. So does the server you are downloading from, congestion on the internet and the type of content you are downloading. Conversely you might be downloading a movie or file or they might put a faster processor in the 3G model and rendering will have no or less affect. The point is that the data transfer is significantly faster with HSPA and that impacts significantly on performance.

Well, uhhhh.... whatever. I am enjoying my 7.2 mb/sec on my Nokia so I really do not care much what my iPhone is doing. I have been enjoying 3G speeds, video calls, IPTV and such for a while now. So once again, EDGE, smedge. I could not care less.
post #116 of 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by lundy View Post

So because you are not permitted to impugn solipsism's capacity to understand something, then that prohibits you from making your argument about Nokia and the iPhone?

Make any argument you want about Nokia.
Make any argument you want about the iPhone.

Do not make any argument about someone's ability to understand something. That is irrelevant and against the posting guidelines.

I suppose I could make an argument about your ability to understand what constitutes a personal attack, but that would itself be a personal attack, so I won't make that argument.

I think I agreed with solipsism's point. At least I said I did, so this would imply that I do understand what he is trying to say. I also made note of his point about the forum moderator. I understood this as well. Considering I just made an argument about me understanding myself, did I make a personal attack on me?

This was a joke. I catch your drift.

To sum up solipsism was correct and I agree with him.
post #117 of 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

What was I thinking. Yes of course Nokia will be dominated by a company with only one crippled product. Tomorrow flags in Helsinki will be flown at half mast in honor of Apple driving them out of business with an iPod that can make calls. Huge layoffs globally are expected. Steve Jobs has decreed from on high via if will personally give each layed off employee one million dollars from petty cash. Steve Jobs is looking to move into the roll me master of the universe on a full time basis. More to come.

Well judging by the way it's developing a half-baked touchscreen device in a blind panic I'd say that Nokia is at least shitting itself at the moment. Longer term, if Apple doesn't stumble, it's definitely got a problem with Apple skimming off the cream of the market, and leaving it to sell low margin basic phones to the third world. The fact is that Apple have a very good brand and high product customer satisfaction. Nokia, on the other hand are losing it. Apple will come up to par with Nokia in hardware at some point but it can't compete on software. I can definitely see the day when Nokia is number 2 to Apple in phone revenues if not unit sales. I guess one could have scoffed at Apple beating Sony in portable music players too, but we all know how that turned out.
post #118 of 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by merdhead View Post

Well judging by the way it's developing a half-baked touchscreen device in a blind panic I'd say that Nokia is at least shitting itself at the moment. Longer term, if Apple doesn't stumble, it's definitely got a problem with Apple skimming off the cream of the market, and leaving it to sell low margin basic phones to the third world. The fact is that Apple have a very good brand and high product customer satisfaction. Nokia, on the other hand are losing it. Apple will come up to par with Nokia in hardware at some point but it can't compete on software. I can definitely see the day when Nokia is number 2 to Apple in phone revenues if not unit sales. I guess one could have scoffed at Apple beating Sony in portable music players too, but we all know how that turned out.

Uhhhh.... Here we go again. Nokia's devices, the IT are positioned for the particular market that they are aimed. They did not develop an iPod then stick a phone on it and call it revolutionary. Nokia developed a Linux tablet that is clearly aimed at a select market.

As far as the third world is concerned, the US seems to fit that bill in regards to Nokia. In the Mid East, Europe, Asia, and parts of South America, Nokia high-end phones are selling and selling quite well. Could you provide a reference as to what you consider a low-end phone. To have a much better idea of the Nokia portfolio, I would suggest you visit: www.nokia.co.uk. Here you will find a plethora of high-end phones that have better specs, and features that the iPhone is sorely lacking. Nokia actually has a smartphone line that performs smartphone functions.
post #119 of 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

Hi kickaha,

Your post was equally as well stated. The thing is, I never said the iPhone was crap. It is far from it. It is however not the revolutionary device (my opinion) that many here (some of them blind followers) think. It is an evolutionary device.

You are mostly comparing surface elements. The hardware and the missing functionality that other phones currently have.

What truly is revolutionary about the iPhone is the software. The OS and the API's have not even been used to their fullest potential.
post #120 of 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby View Post

Anyway, they all said the test was aimed at US phones, with US networks were as Asian, European, and Mid Eastern 3G networks were more or less the same. Much of this was way over my head, but I understood some of it. In the end, they said that if a Nokia with a 1050 mAh 3.7v battery can run a phone all day with 3G, the iPhone should be able to last all day as well. They felt the lack of 3G was marketing hype because AT&T didn't have the network at the time and Apple wanted the phone out there..

You cannot just compare two phones this way based on 3G alone. Each phone budgets its energy differently. Nokia phones have smaller screens, slower processors, and far less internal memory. These differences significantly alter the allocation of power between Nokia phones and the iPhone.
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