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More unofficial Mac clones up for sale on eBay - Page 2

post #41 of 330
5/6/08 at 10:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ros3ntan View Post

do u have the link?? i want to see the review..

There's just one that we know of. There's a video of it on YouTube.
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post #42 of 330
5/6/08 at 10:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I really don't fault IBM much, it's not as if they were able to find enough buyers for the various G5 chips when they were good chips to justify continued development.

I agree. Their primary buyer was also pretty inflexible. Not like Amiga was going to pick up the rest of the tab.
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post #43 of 330
5/6/08 at 10:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ros3ntan View Post

yeah.. but warranties is an indication that we would expect the product to break down... which means the quality is not good.

Although i appreciate Apple care, a good product is not supposed to break down (and the funny part is we expect it by purchasing apple care). if we dont expect it, why would we buy it.

Everything breaks. It's always a matter of when. Computers can be made tougher, but for consumers, there's not much point in buying a machine that doesn't break if it costs way too much to make it that tough, especially if the computer's very obsolete in three years. Back then, the price of a computer was quite high. It doesn't make sense to apply the same reliability standards to a $2000 notebook in today's money vs. a $5000 notebook in 1995 money.

I don't think it's that one expects a given machine break, but that you're weighing the cost of the service vs. against the risk that something breaks. If there's a 1 in 10 chance that the main board fries in the first three years, then it's probably worthwhile, vs. having to pay for the repair or just buy a new machine.
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post #44 of 330
5/6/08 at 10:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ros3ntan View Post

nope, that will alienate their current consumer..

I don't see why it would.

Really, anyone that is already an Apple customer with a Mac would get the OS for the same price they're getting it now, as an upgrade. Why would that be a problem?

Only people who didn't have OS X installed on a Mac would have to pay $400, or whatever, for a "complete" new install. That's no different from the way MS does it now, or any other software maker does it.

Since Apple, presumably, wouldn't want to encourage people from installing this on a PC, that would be no problem.
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post #45 of 330
5/6/08 at 11:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

There's just one that we know of. There's a video of it on YouTube.

Engadget did one too.
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post #46 of 330
5/6/08 at 11:01am
This idea has been around forever. Haven't you heard of Project OSx86? I'm sure you guys have. This Chris555 is just trying to make money off of it. www.osx86project.org

Check it out.
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post #47 of 330
5/6/08 at 11:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I don't see why it would.

Really, anyone that is already an Apple customer with a Mac would get the OS for the same price they're getting it now, as an upgrade. Why would that be a problem?

Only people who didn't have OS X installed on a Mac would have to pay $400, or whatever, for a "complete" new install. That's no different from the way MS does it now, or any other software maker does it.

Since Apple, presumably, wouldn't want to encourage people from installing this on a PC, that would be no problem.

I would also assume they would keep it EFI only.
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post #48 of 330
5/6/08 at 11:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ros3ntan View Post

Although i appreciate Apple care, a good product is not supposed to break down (and the funny part is we expect it by purchasing apple care). if we dont expect it, why would we buy it.

I recall from the movie Tucker that they didn't want to add seatbelts because it would imply the car isn't safe. That is the same logic.

The iPhone only has the typical one year warranty. You can't get an additional warranty. It can be argued that Apple offers a 3 year warranty on Macs because they are well built and therefore it's a revenue builder under normal wear and tear, but not on the iPhone because cell phones are much more abused, thus not likely to last 3 years under normal wear and tear.
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post #49 of 330
5/6/08 at 11:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

He doesn't listen to customers, he's admitted it publicly.

It's great that they have done so well making the products SJ wants to make. But that doesn't mean that they could learn something by listening to feedback from customers (and potential customers).

He never said he didn't listen to customers. He said that Apple didn't use focus groups, which is very different.

I have plenty of experience with them, on both sides. They are a waste of time. If you only knew...
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post #50 of 330
5/6/08 at 11:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ros3ntan View Post

I have 2 GB of ram. Its working.. its just that it shortens the life of the logic board...

I really don't see how. The Macbook's memory controller is supposed to be able to handle 2GB.
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post #51 of 330
5/6/08 at 11:05am
On a related note, does anyone have a Hyundai body with a BMW engine?

Because, you know, that's actually better than a real BMW. Why people pay all that money for a complete BMW is beyond me. A Hyundai outfitted with a BMW engine is WAY better. More bang for your buck.

What does the BMW factory in Germany with all those engineers know about making cars that my friend Lil' Puppet in his chop shop in Florida doesn't already know, and know better?
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post #52 of 330
5/6/08 at 11:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I really don't see how.

Neither do I. I've never heard that one. I have heard that electric current going through electronics will break down them faster, but we are talking eons, not the life of a personal computer.
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post #53 of 330
5/6/08 at 11:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The iPhone only has the typical one year warranty. You can't get an additional warranty.

Why do you say that? This looks to me to be an additional warranty through Apple:

http://www.apple.com/support/product...areiphone.html
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post #54 of 330
5/6/08 at 11:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post

The Mini's problem has never been the CPU. It's been hard drive size and accessibility of the memory,

The HDD can be replaced. It takes two minutes to open the case and get to the drive.

The same thing is true for the RAM.

And how many times do peope upgrade RAM or HDD's?

Not very often. Maybe once or twice during the lifetime of the unit. Once for RAM.

You can always get a HDD unit that fits under the Mini, and connects through Firewire. There are many external HDD solutions available for every computer. Most people upgrade that way, including PC people, most of them never open their "upgradable" machines.
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post #55 of 330
5/6/08 at 11:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by macinthe408 View Post

On a related note, does anyone have a Hyundai body with a BMW engine?

Because, you know, that's actually better than a real BMW. Why people pay all that money for a complete BMW is beyond me. A Hyundai outfitted with a BMW engine is WAY better. More bang for your buck.

What does the BMW factory in Germany with all those engineers know about making cars that my friend Lil' Puppet in his chop shop in Florida doesn't already know, and know better?

-1: auto analogy.

But if I had to continue it, both systems use pretty much the same quality of parts as the core "engine" chips. Intel doesn't sell different quality of chips, they're all pretty reliable, they're just rated for different speeds or power consumption, not buying a chip that's going to burn up vs. one that won't.
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post #56 of 330
5/6/08 at 11:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by macinthe408 View Post

On a related note, does anyone have a Hyundai body with a BMW engine?

Because, you know, that's actually better than a real BMW. Why people pay all that money for a complete BMW is beyond me. A Hyundai outfitted with a BMW engine is WAY better. More bang for your buck.

What does the BMW factory in Germany with all those engineers know about making cars that my friend Lil' Puppet in his chop shop in Florida doesn't already know, and know better?

It would be more like a BMW hydrogen engine. There is no way everyone is going to buy a BMW, so keeping the technology proprietary isn't in their best interest. Also try to do any pulling or hauling with a 3-series.
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post #57 of 330
5/6/08 at 11:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Why do you say that? This looks to me to be an additional warranty through Apple:

http://www.apple.com/support/product...areiphone.html

Thanks. I recall a big fuss about there not being an extended warranty. I guess I am wrong; but my rational still holds true, even though my example doesn't.
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post #58 of 330
5/6/08 at 11:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post

Engadget did one too.

It's the same one.
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post #59 of 330
5/6/08 at 11:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ros3ntan View Post

I
yeah.. but warranties is an indication that we would expect the product to break down... which means the quality is not good.

Although i appreciate Apple care, a good product is not supposed to break down (and the funny part is we expect it by purchasing apple care). if we dont expect it, why would we buy it.

I don't think anyone here understands this.

You're saying that if a company knows it has a good product, it should never break?

And then you're saying, that therefor, they should not offer a warrantee, because they won't need one? And that offering one only proves that they know their product isn't that good, and that it will break?

So we should look for products that come with no warrantee, because they must be so good that they will never break?

Your understanding of logic is seriously flawed.
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post #60 of 330
5/6/08 at 11:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post

I would also assume they would keep it EFI only.

It's only EFI now, but guess what? It runs! There are ways around that too.

Apple would need to add some hardware that would be needed for the OS to function properly, or to at least give a proper experience.

Perhaps now that they own PA SEmi, they will be able to do that.

This would give the them opportunity to add some functionality to all of their machines that couldn't be duplicated by "out of the box" PC's.

With this patented, other chip makers couldn't easily duplicate it. They would also have to have some assurance that attempting to do so would reward their high expenses with enough sales. That wouldn't be likely.
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post #61 of 330
5/6/08 at 11:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bageljoey View Post

No, it wouldn't affect the current consumer. It would not affect anyone except the clone makers who would have to pay "full price" for a new install of the OS. Current customers would have "bought" that full install when they bought the computer. Even users who want to upgrade from 10.4 to 10.5 would not be affected, because they would be able to buy at "upgrade" prices...

Actually, I am not aware of any "upgrade" price for Leopard for my 2006 MacBook Pro. A heavily inflated price would definitely deter me as a consumer.

Consider this as well- look how expensive Windows is- you can find cracked versions all over the internet. There may be a solution to stop these unofficial clones, but raising the price is not it.
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post #62 of 330
5/6/08 at 11:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Neither do I. I've never heard that one. I have heard that electric current going through electronics will break down them faster, but we are talking eons, not the life of a personal computer.

Ros3ntan is just making it up. Don't bother with it.
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post #63 of 330
5/6/08 at 11:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

It's only EFI now, but guess what? It runs! There are ways around that too.

That is exactly what the OSx86 Project did.

it emulates EFI data for normal BIOS-based PCs and allows OS X to treat BIOS based hardware platforms as genuine EFI-based Macs.
•

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSx86#EFI_emulation
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post #64 of 330
5/6/08 at 11:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by batsai View Post

Actually, I am not aware of any "upgrade" price for Leopard for my 2006 MacBook Pro. A heavily inflated price would definitely deter me as a consumer.

That is why they won't raise the price because of a couple pre-built, unofficial Mac clones; most of them are DLing the pre-built, hacked copies for free.
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post #65 of 330
5/6/08 at 11:27am
Apple legal needs to take these loosers to the cleaners.... I would love to see them set an example...
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post #66 of 330
5/6/08 at 11:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by batsai View Post

Actually, I am not aware of any "upgrade" price for Leopard for my 2006 MacBook Pro. A heavily inflated price would definitely deter me as a consumer.

Consider this as well- look how expensive Windows is- you can find cracked versions all over the internet. There may be a solution to stop these unofficial clones, but raising the price is not it.

You missed the point.

Those who have a Mac, and therefor would be eligible for the upgrade, would continue to pay the lower price.

Only those who have no Mac would pay the higher price.

The reason why people cheat with Windows, or even OS X, is not because of the high price, but because its not free. They don't want to pay anything.

You can get upgrades to Windows for much less than the retail "new" price. MS sell them as upgrades.

But, if you go to companies who sell cables and such, you can also buy Windows for an OEM price. All you have to do is buy a cheap cable, or some such item to legally qualify.
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post #67 of 330
5/6/08 at 11:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I really don't see how. The Macbook's memory controller is supposed to be able to handle 2GB.

believe me.. i have asked the apple care people.. they couldnt explain it to me.. so for now, i have no good explanation on why it breaks...

but something good do comes out of it.. i got a new bottom casing..LOL
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post #68 of 330
5/6/08 at 11:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

He never said he didn't listen to customers. He said that Apple didn't use focus groups, which is very different.

I have plenty of experience with them, on both sides. They are a waste of time. If you only knew...

Sorry, I don't have the exact quote. But it's obvious that Steve makes the products that Steve wants to make. Is there any reason to believe that Apple actually does listen to what customers want? The product line shows no evidence that they do.

Sometimes that works and they get a great product nobody else thought of. And sometimes there's a gaping hole in the product line.
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post #69 of 330
5/6/08 at 11:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Everything breaks. It's always a matter of when. Computers can be made tougher, but for consumers, there's not much point in buying a machine that doesn't break if it costs way too much to make it that tough, especially if the computer's very obsolete in three years. Back then, the price of a computer was quite high. It doesn't make sense to apply the same reliability standards to a $2000 notebook in today's money vs. a $5000 notebook in 1995 money.

I don't think it's that one expects a given machine break, but that you're weighing the cost of the service vs. against the risk that something breaks. If there's a 1 in 10 chance that the main board fries in the first three years, then it's probably worthwhile, vs. having to pay for the repair or just buy a new machine.

thats true, however, i had my sony vaio for close to 5 years now. I never had any problem with it. Hence, there is no sense of buying a warranty for 3 years.. because during that time, i would be wasting my money.

it is still working btw.
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post #70 of 330
5/6/08 at 11:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

That is exactly what the OSx86 Project did.

it emulates EFI data for normal BIOS-based PCs and allows OS X to treat BIOS based hardware platforms as genuine EFI-based Macs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSx86#EFI_emulation

I know. I have had them bookmarked since day one of their project going online. That's why I said that it runs.

What people interested in this don't seem to know is that a lot of software doesn't run on these machines, though a fair amount does. Hardware too.

I think there is still a problem with Firewire, and that's why it isn't being offered.

Drivers for most graphics cards don't work either.
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post #71 of 330
5/6/08 at 11:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

Sorry, I don't have the exact quote. But it's obvious that Steve makes the products that Steve wants to make. Is there any reason to believe that Apple actually does listen to what customers want? The product line shows no evidence that they do.

Sometimes that works and they get a great product nobody else thought of. And sometimes there's a gaping hole in the product line.

i would say they are half and half. They listen to their customers, but solve it in a new way like the macbook air. Its unique.. and demand is.. well not large enough.. but its innovation nonetheless.

the iphone is their success story because they listen and solve the problems in their own way.
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post #72 of 330
5/6/08 at 11:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I know. I have had them bookmarked since day one of their project going online. That's why I said that it runs.

What people interested in this don't seem to know is that a lot of software doesn't run on these machines, though a fair amount does. Hardware too.

I think there is still a problem with Firewire, and that's why it isn't being offered.

Drivers for most graphics cards don't work either.

Gotcha. I had major issues with networking drivers. The NIC is 10/100/1000 but it only gets 5Mb/s sustained. It's the only card of 3 that works. I could a better supported 3rd-party card but th transfer rate is fast enough for my needs.
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post #73 of 330
5/6/08 at 11:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

Sorry, I don't have the exact quote. But it's obvious that Steve makes the products that Steve wants to make. Is there any reason to believe that Apple actually does listen to what customers want? The product line shows no evidence that they do.

Sometimes that works and they get a great product nobody else thought of. And sometimes there's a gaping hole in the product line.

Honestly, this isn't a simple question, and there isn't a simple answer.

Without actually being there, we can only guess.

But with more PC manufacturers making all-in-ones, Apple is clearly on to something.

The main reason why Apple isn't at 50% marketshare isn't because of the models it offers, but is because of the OS.

It's not easy to make the decision to switch OS's. If you have little investment, it's easier, but not if you do. As most people use PC's, and do have an investment in software, and hardware that they suspect, correctly or not, that will not move over, it's clear as to why we don't see Apple's marketshare moving at 200% a year.

But, as more people do buy Mac's, and the estimate for consumer uptake is now at 17%, a very high number, it makes it easier for the next person to buy into the Mac world.

Adoption rates have been steadily moving up, so that noe it's ober 50%. Thats pretty damn good!

Almost no PC owners ever upgrade their machines. When most are ready, they just buy new machines. We should be grateful for that, because those are the people moving to Macs, for the most part, other than students.
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post #74 of 330
5/6/08 at 11:50am
Is it worth it to convert your pc into a mac? i have been contemplating this for a long time.. considering the cost of time installing Project OSx86, is it worth it?
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post #75 of 330
5/6/08 at 11:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ros3ntan View Post

thats true, however, i had my sony vaio for close to 5 years now. I never had any problem with it. Hence, there is no sense of buying a warranty for 3 years.. because during that time, i would be wasting my money.

it is still working btw.

But that's not the way to think of it. If there's a 10% chance of something big & expensive on the notebook going bad, then you have a 90% chance of it still going strong at the end and then you'd declare that you didn't need it. But if the warranty was $100, and a replacement board and service was $1000 with a 10% risk, it's even money either way. This is a simplistic view, but I think it shows the idea.

An available warranty isn't a guarantee that it's going to go bad, nor is it an expectation that the one WILL go bad, you're just changing the risk to your wallet.
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post #76 of 330
5/6/08 at 11:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ros3ntan View Post

Is it worth it to convert your pc into a mac? i have been contemplating this for a long time.. considering the cost of time installing Project OSx86, is it worth it?

Worth is relative. If you have an old PC with a processor with at least SSE2 you might want to try it out. There is a Wiki that shows which PC vendor models and various 3rd-party HW have drivers/kexts.
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post #77 of 330
5/6/08 at 11:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Worth is relative. If you have an old PC with a processor with at least SSE2 you might want to try it out. There is a Wiki that shows which PC vendor models and various 3rd-party HW have drivers/kexts.

i custom build my pc.. soo i would not be looking at pc vendors.. looking compatibility for 3rd party hardware is a pain in the ass.. and plus no update... i guess its not worth it....
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post #78 of 330
5/6/08 at 11:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Honestly, this isn't a simple question, and there isn't a simple answer.

Without actually being there, we can only guess.

But with more PC manufacturers making all-in-ones, Apple is clearly on to something.

The main reason why Apple isn't at 50% marketshare isn't because of the models it offers, but is because of the OS.

It's not easy to make the decision to switch OS's. If you have little investment, it's easier, but not if you do. As most people use PC's, and do have an investment in software, and hardware that they suspect, correctly or not, that will not move over, it's clear as to why we don't see Apple's marketshare moving at 200% a year.

But, as more people do buy Mac's, and the estimate for consumer uptake is now at 17%, a very high number, it makes it easier for the next person to buy into the Mac world.

Adoption rates have been steadily moving up, so that noe it's ober 50%. Thats pretty damn good!

Almost no PC owners ever upgrade their machines. When most are ready, they just buy new machines. We should be grateful for that, because those are the people moving to Macs, for the most part, other than students.

You're right, on this end it's all speculation.

While the OS is an issue,I think the lack of key models is a significant factor as well in limiting market share.

Are all-in-ones selling many on the PC side? I doubt it, and I doubt they ever will sell many. I think that many people buy imacs because it's the only option in that price range.

And while most PC owners don't upgrade, they buy machines that can be upgraded because they want that option (even if they don't take advantage of it). There certainly are people who want to be able to upgrade their computer but not have to buy a new monitor.

I simply don't buy that the imac form factor is what the average person wants - it's a prime example of Apple trying to influence consumer wants instead of providing what the average consumer wants.
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post #79 of 330
5/6/08 at 12:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ros3ntan View Post

i custom build my pc.. soo i would not be looking at pc vendors.. looking compatibility for 3rd party hardware is a pain in the ass.. and plus no update... i guess its not worth it....

It's how everyone else does it. It's a simple search on one website; I wouldn't define that as a PITA.
Look under HW.
http://wiki.osx86project.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
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post #80 of 330
5/6/08 at 12:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

I simply don't buy that the imac form factor is what the average person wants - it's a prime example of Apple trying to influence consumer wants instead of providing what the average consumer wants.

Notebooks are AIOs, too, and we know that laptop PCs sales are skyrocketing.
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