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The Police: here we go again

post #1 of 15
5/7/08 at 2:30am
Thread Starter 
Philly police offices were caught on video beating three guys they pulled from a car.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080507/...N6L2AM2MhvzwcF


The chief of police said it didn't look good, but he didn't want to rush to judgement. It sure doesn't look good. They even had a dog off to the right.

The car they were chasing pulled off to the side, the occupants were yanked out; indeed, the officers did not seem to believe the occupants were armed or dangerous... they pretty quickly opened the doors and yanked the guys out. They were kicked, punched and struck with a baton. They do not seem to be offering any resistance.

There were plenty of officers around, and there was a sniffer dog.

An officer was killed two days ago and "tensions are high" amongst the officers. This high?

Thoughts?

 

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post #2 of 15
5/7/08 at 6:56am
will have to wait & see what the whole story is before passing any opinion...
hard to feel sorry for criminals though...
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post #3 of 15
5/7/08 at 7:52am
Thread Starter 
Really hard to respect cops who behave like this regardless of the criminal's acts (there does seem to have been a shooting in this case; if so, why not approach the car in a safer manner?).

The suspects were down and were just being beaten.

One cop actually kicks the car, then starts beating on one of the suspects. Any explanation for this other than uncontrolled rage?

The cops have been taken off the street during the investigation:
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5h...qAMnwD90GRPLO1

Supposedly, the cops are all stressed out and tired from a exhaustive schedule.
http://www.philly.com/dailynews/loca...ook_good_.html

Sounds like they need to improve training and increase support systems to help the officers cope with their jobs better.

 

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post #4 of 15
5/7/08 at 8:40am
Didn't the exact same situation happen in Philly some years ago? Some cop is killed and in the heat of the investigation and pursuit the cops knock down and beat someone.

Seems like bad leadership to me. When these situations happen the senior officers need to ramp down all those cops so they don't loose it on some poor guy that didn't pull over fast enough.
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post #5 of 15
5/7/08 at 2:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mydo View Post

Didn't the exact same situation happen in Philly some years ago? Some cop is killed and in the heat of the investigation and pursuit the cops knock down and beat someone.

Seems like bad leadership to me. When these situations happen the senior officers need to ramp down all those cops so they don't loose it on some poor guy that didn't pull over fast enough.

Uh...the leadership is different now. The mayor is different and so is the police commissioner. The problem is Philadelphia is becoming a sewer everywhere outside of Center City and the touristy districts. It's far worse than NYC, Chicago, etc. It's now on par with Detroit and DC in many ways.

Philadelphia needs drastic change. The Philly you see in Rocky and Invincible doesn't exist anymore except in pockets of South Philly. I don't know what the answer is. More police, stop and frisk, economic incentives to revitalize...who knows. Something has to be done. The public's frustration is seething...ditto for the police, who are positively outraged by the recent cop killing.
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post #6 of 15
5/7/08 at 3:30pm
The Philly I saw in Rocky was pretty shitty... or are you just lamenting the demise of street corner a cappella homeless bums?
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post #7 of 15
5/7/08 at 3:33pm
I mean hell ...look at how the Eagles play. Wouldn't be surprised if half the team carried shanks onto the field
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post #8 of 15
5/8/08 at 5:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShawnJ View Post

The Philly I saw in Rocky was pretty shitty... or are you just lamenting the demise of street corner a cappella homeless bums?

My point exactly...imagine that old South Philly working class, things-kinda-suck-but-we've-got-the-Eagles-and-Phillies town. Now imagine it with a homicides out the ass, drugs, all sorts of corruption and nefarious activities....then multiply by 10. Welcome to the new Philly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

I mean hell ...look at how the Eagles play. Wouldn't be surprised if half the team carried shanks onto the field

I can only dream.
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post #9 of 15
5/8/08 at 8:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

My point exactly...imagine that old South Philly working class, things-kinda-suck-but-we've-got-the-Eagles-and-Phillies town.

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post #10 of 15
5/8/08 at 10:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Philadelphia needs drastic change.

Agreed. Major Nutter and I discussed it over breakfast at Little Pete's Diner two weeks ago. Really. He was eating there at the counter with his bodyguard and some aides. Stops in once or twice a week.

Quote:
The Philly you see in Rocky and Invincible doesn't exist anymore except in pockets of South Philly.

The major areas that need change are West and North East Philly. The odd thing about Philly is that you can have some of the best colleges (take your pick; PU, Drexel, Temple) surrounded by shit holes. The Free Library with "Homeless Central" across the street in the park. That reminds me of Twelve Monkeys...

I've been living in Central Philly for about ten years now and haven't had any hassles or have witnessed any of the crime that permeates the local news. It's there outside of the central part of the city, I have to commute to Northeast Philly and back everyday, but nothing compared to the fear and loathing view the local news reports.

Quote:
I don't know what the answer is. More police, stop and frisk, economic incentives to revitalize...who knows. Something has to be done. The public's frustration is seething...ditto for the police, who are positively outraged by the recent cop killing.

Nutter said that the first step is to hire more police, I said all well and good, but train them to handle urban situations and crime, not just whisk them through the process and onto the streets. He believes the economic incentives will return after he gets a handle on the crime.

Overall, Philly is a great city. Better than New York City IMO. It will be affected by the economic woes coming but I've had two friends move down here lately from the suburbs because they couldn't deal with...the suburbs.
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post #11 of 15
5/8/08 at 10:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by @_@ Artman View Post

Agreed. Major Nutter and I discussed it over breakfast at Little Pete's Diner two weeks ago. Really. He was eating there at the counter with his bodyguard and some aides. Stops in once or twice a week.

I like Nutter so far. It's still his honeymoon, but at least he's not John Street.

Quote:

The major areas that need change are West and North East Philly. The odd thing about Philly is that you can have some of the best colleges (take your pick; PU, Drexel, Temple) surrounded by shit holes. The Free Library with "Homeless Central" across the street in the park. That reminds me of Twelve Monkeys...

Totally agree.

Quote:

I've been living in Central Philly for about ten years now and haven't had any hassles or have witnessed any of the crime that permeates the local news. It's there outside of the central part of the city, I have to commute to Northeast Philly and back everyday, but nothing compared to the fear and loathing view the local news reports.

It's where you live. Center City is fine. You're probably in the better sections of the Northeast.

Quote:

Nutter said that the first step is to hire more police, I said all well and good, but train them to handle urban situations and crime, not just whisk them through the process and onto the streets. He believes the economic incentives will return after he gets a handle on the crime.

That is a good idea. I do think more police are needed who can deal with what's gotten totally out of hand wrt violence.

Quote:

Overall, Philly is a great city. Better than New York City IMO. It will be affected by the economic woes coming but I've had two friends move down here lately from the suburbs because they couldn't deal with...the suburbs.

Depends on how you define great. It's losing population and has a high crime rate...far higher than NY's. I still love the area, don't get me wrong. As for the burbs...well what can I say...LOVE THEM. I'm moving farther out route 30 in August. It looks like those pictures of "West Chester" you posted last year.
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post #12 of 15
5/8/08 at 12:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Depends on how you define great. It's losing population and has a high crime rate...far higher than NY's. I still love the area, don't get me wrong. As for the burbs...well what can I say...LOVE THEM. I'm moving farther out route 30 in August. It looks like those pictures of "West Chester" you posted last year.

I was talking about NYC's cost of living. Philly's way better. Yes, people are leaving (probably because houses are cheaper "out there" now). But you have a lot of students who stay even after college is out, they like the city and it's clubs, bars, cafes, and theaters. Young single professionals are abundant (though most are pompous asshats) and are living in Center City, South, West, Chinatown, Northern Liberties in droves, cell phones in ears. I live on a small street in Center City and most of the residents are upper-middle class 30-40 somethings with kids and enjoy their street and their neighbors.

My one friend who moved down lived in my neighborhood and went to the same high school. He stayed in the burbs, got married and then recently divorced. It made him hate the suburbs and he wanted something new. For a person who's well off, has his own business, travels the world doing so, he chose Philly for a home base right now.

Believe me, the burbs have their place; clean air, quiet and openness...but after two days out there, I go crazy...I like the grit, noise and movement of the city and nothing can compare to it's cultural outlets and variety of life.
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post #13 of 15
5/8/08 at 1:19pm
All I know is that a place near Rittenhouse is where I'd love to be.

Screw the Main Line.
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post #14 of 15
5/9/08 at 8:52am
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Police_Reunion_Tour
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post #15 of 15
5/11/08 at 7:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Uh...the leadership is different now. The mayor is different and so is the police commissioner. The problem is Philadelphia is becoming a sewer everywhere outside of Center City and the touristy districts. It's far worse than NYC, Chicago, etc. It's now on par with Detroit and DC in many ways.

Philadelphia needs drastic change. The Philly you see in Rocky and Invincible doesn't exist anymore except in pockets of South Philly. I don't know what the answer is. More police, stop and frisk, economic incentives to revitalize...who knows. Something has to be done. The public's frustration is seething...ditto for the police, who are positively outraged by the recent cop killing.

Philly has had parts that were a mess forever. 30 years ago I was growing up in West Philly--there was a halfway house on the corner. I first got mugged at 4 while riding a Big Wheel around my block. I remember getting driven home in a police bus from elementary school once when things were particulaly hairy.

At the time that the police were outraged and the public was seething.

My point is that there were people back then who would not have ventured into my neighborhood without a police escort, but once you got used to it (or if you grew up knowing only that), it was a pretty cool place to grow up.
As I understand it, things are getting worse now, but it is just the pendulum swinging back from when thigns had gotten relatively good during the Clinton Boom 90s.

Back to the main point, I don't know what it is about the Philly police. They have a history of thugish behavior that I remember back to the Rizzo days but My dad says it was that way before too. Anyone remember Osage Avenue/MOVE? They forced the FD to let a fire burn down a few blocks of row houses... Ahhh, those were the days!
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