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Apple developing 3D gaming controller for Apple TV

post #1 of 69
Thread Starter 
Apple in a new patent filing reveals that it is conducting research on a 3D remote control system for its Apple TV set-top box that would mimic the functionality of the Nintendo Wii controller and also deliver some features akin to its multi-touch technology.

In the November 2006 filing, published for the first time this week, the Cupertino-based electronics maker notes that the three-dimensional remote control systems can detect an absolute location to which a remote control is pointing in first and second orthogonal axes (e.g., the x- and y-axes) and an absolute position of the remote control in a third orthogonal axis (e.g., the z-axis).

By combining absolute position detection with relative position detection, the system can indicate changes in the position of the remote control as a user moves the controlling device among a 3D axis, a concept akin to the one employed by Nintendo in its widely successful Wii gaming console.

"[The] remote control system also can include optional console . Console can have controller that can perform some or all of the processing described for controller," the filing states in an obvious reference to Apple TV. "Console also can have one or more connectors to which accessories can be coupled. Accessories can include cables and/or, game cartridges, portable memory devices (e.g., memory cards, external hard drives, etc.), adapters for interfacing with another electronic device (e.g., computers, camcorders, cameras, media players, etc.), or combinations thereof."

It adds that, "the absolute x- and y-positions of [the] remote control can be used, for example, in video games to position a user's character or to otherwise track the movement of the remote control in a user's environment."

In addition, Apple notes, the remote control can also "zoom into and out of an image or a portion thereof based on the absolute position of the remote control in the third axis." Such functionality would appear to go hand in hand with the photo and video browser components of Apple TV, mimicking one aspect of its multi-touch present on the iPhone, MacBook Air, and MacBook Pro.



Though Apple is just getting its feet wet with gaming on its accelerometer-enabled iPhone handsets, it has yet steer Apple TV in the same direction. However, there have been a number of hints over the past year to suggest it may only be a matter of time before the set-top-box, like the iPod and iPhone, will dual as a casual gaming console.

Last February, Greg Canessa of PopCap games singled out Apple TV as a platform he expects to embrace casual gaming over the next five years, and suggested that work was already in progress at his studio to deliver games for the device.



At the time, members of his team were said to be "taking the stable of franchises and games out of PopCap's studio and adapting, customizing it for different platforms -- adding multiplayer, new play modes, HD, customizing the user interface and display for Zune, ipod, Apple TV, Nintendo DS, PSP."

"[Casual games] are going to continue to grow into non-core demographics," he added. "This is relevant as it pertains to devices that are not currently earmarked as gaming devices: mobile, set-top boxes, Apple TV, MP3 players and other devices in the home that will reach the non-gamer --Â* people who donÂt think they want to play."

A month later, references to gaming on the Apple TV were discovered in the company's iTunes code.

post #2 of 69
I'd assume if movie rentals / AppleTV sales are brisk, Apple will continue to enhance AppleTV. Haven't heard any hard data on either at this point.
post #3 of 69
Make games for Apple Tv and I'll buy one. But i have to have a need first.
post #4 of 69
Now we're talking!!!
post #5 of 69
Apple Is On A Roll!!!!
I APPLE THEREFORE I AM
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post #6 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy View Post

Now we're talking!!!

Apple often doesn't follow up a patent filing with an actual product.
post #7 of 69
Apple TV doesn't have a very good 3d processor...
post #8 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

Apple TV doesn't have a very good 3d processor...

but it is better then the one in the mini
post #9 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_the_dragon View Post

but it is better then the one in the mini

Apple TV 3, the XBOX killer.

3D graphics and rent your games online. Network your games online or LAN with other Apple TVs.

Cool!

Ed
post #10 of 69
Surely part of this technology has already been patented by nintendo
post #11 of 69
I sadly think the patent info is being overblown into a gaming solution (more is being read into it than it really is). I think the patent is more targetted as a better on-screen remote for the Apple TV, than a controller for games. Then again, maybe I'm being too pessimistic.
post #12 of 69
So here is the million dollar question...

Would this require new hardware or is the capability built in? Maybe that USB slot will finally have a purpose? Perhaps we plug a little something in that acts as the remote input receiver? Maybe even has a cable input for that DVR patent we saw?
The iSlate cometh
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The iSlate cometh
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post #13 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

Apple TV doesn't have a very good 3d processor...

If the Wii is any indication, it doesn't really need to be. A lot of fun can be had with a relatively simple game. I think the chip in the AppleTV is enough to take most of the same kind of games to HD. Because it's not an 8800 class chip doesn't mean it can't do games. Most people play video games of some sort, of that, the people that demand the graphics intensive games are a small subset.

If Apple does offer games, I don't expect it to be a primary selling feature, but more of a value added kind of thing.
post #14 of 69
It makes sense to me that this remote would be or include the iPhone/iPod Touch. This seems to coincide with the rumors going around using the iPhone as a touchscreen remote.

As for the Apple TV for gaming, I think it's plenty powerful for family games, not for GTA.
post #15 of 69
great news. tomorrow the world.
post #16 of 69
Exterior: Mariani Avenue, Cupertino CA.
Interior: Dolly through glass doors, pan across Bosendorfer piano.
Zoom to double doors, open, revealing tall figure, fifty-ish, close cropped grey hair, blaf mock turtleneck, stonewashed jeans, no belt.
POV reverses.
Waist-up shot, two asian men, black suits, hands outstretched, palms up, one holds a WII controller, the other a small pile of papers. They bow at the waist, simultaneously.
"Wii would like to sue you."
post #17 of 69
As long as they incorporate this, all will be well with the soon to be completely misnamed AppleTV (...Apple-izer?...iTainment?)

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

 

Get the lowdown on the coming collapse:  http://www.cbo.gov/publication/45010

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

 

Get the lowdown on the coming collapse:  http://www.cbo.gov/publication/45010

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post #18 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpellino View Post

Exterior: Mariani Avenue, Cupertino CA.
Interior: Dolly through glass doors, pan across Bosendorfer piano.
Zoom to double doors, open, revealing tall figure, fifty-ish, close cropped grey hair, blaf mock turtleneck, stonewashed jeans, no belt.
POV reverses.
Waist-up shot, two asian men, black suits, hands outstretched, palms up, one holds a WII controller, the other a small pile of papers. They bow at the waist, simultaneously.
"Wii would like to sue you."

hahahaha *swish*

Undoubtedly Nintendo must hold the patent to this technology........ RIGHT??? You'd think, at least.

Either this will be denied by the patent board and Apple will have to license the technology, or they'll bully their way in *somehow*. I can't see how this is different enough from the Wii interface to warrant its own patent...

The Apple remote, however, lacks accelerometers... so at least it's not a dead knock-off... (or as I like to call them... "Konfabulators").

Still... leave it to Apple to bully their way into Nintendo's gaming scene. I will be very upset if Nintendo suffers at Apple's hand.

-Clive
My Mod: G4 Cube + Atom 330 CPU + Wiimote = Ultimate HTPC!
(Might I recommend the Libertarian Party as a good compromise between the equally terrible "DnR"?)
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My Mod: G4 Cube + Atom 330 CPU + Wiimote = Ultimate HTPC!
(Might I recommend the Libertarian Party as a good compromise between the equally terrible "DnR"?)
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post #19 of 69
Guys, I think there's no way Apple will use this patent in the current AppleTV! Look at Wii!!

Wii may have an awesome controller, but the rest is a crap! Tell me what you like, folks, but I won't play a game only because the gameplay is good if my eyes burn every time time I look up to the screen. If Nintendo "saltied" the price of the Wii a bit more in exchange for a bit better graphics I would have bought one in the day it came out...

Now Apple doesn't make things half way. They normally sell more "spicy" products, both in features and in price. Now, think about the true second generation Apple TV, the ultimate all-in-one for television entertainment. The standard Apple TV features, but with a redesigned interdace and a OS for its own. more powerful hardware, with a better 3-axis point-sensing controll like the Wii's but not a dirty copy, something different. Perhaps with a touch screen of some sort in a part of the remote or covering the whole thing. Also some kind of support to a add-on for Touches/iPhones to become like the remote itself if its controll are 100% touchscreen. (A piece of hardware connected through the dock connector) It's powerful hardware can make gaming experience something of a wii/ps3, but with something Apple in it.

Even though Apple is now "Who needs physical discs to transfer data, wi-fi is the future, dude!!!", i think it would be wise also to include blu-ray, but as said before, Apple can survive well alone with Wi-fi, although one's DVD collection would turn useless and ATV would therefore not be the complete ultimate television entertainment all-in-one....
post #20 of 69
iPhone 2 as controller...modified AppleTV as console.

Awesome 3D input device, and the possibility to continue a mini-game as you carry the phone with you for the rest of the day.

Think WoW on crack...



-Nano.
post #21 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukaz View Post

Guys, I think there's no way Apple will use this patent in the current AppleTV! Look at Wii!!

Wii may have an awesome controller, but the rest is a crap! Tell me what you like, folks, but I won't play a game only because the gameplay is good if my eyes burn every time time I look up to the screen. If Nintendo "saltied" the price of the Wii a bit more in exchange for a bit better graphics I would have bought one in the day it came out...

You can't be serious, right? Before I start, I'd like to establish that I am a person who appreciates really good graphics.

1) I have had no problems with the graphical quality of the Wii. Certainly, it's not a polygon cruncher, but the only issues I've seen are with games that blatently attempt to squeeze more out of the Wii than they should. For development teams who know better, they produce beautiful images with beautiful rendering... most notably, Super Mario Galaxy. The art in the game is amazing... and I'm using the composite cables!!!! Also, there's more to a game than its graphics. There's story, gameplay, music, etc... If I were to look at xbox 360 and PS3, I would see only a couple really good reasons to consider buying one... Halo 3, GTA IV, and... uh... Call of Duty? ...maybe? The Wii has a number of really great games... Super Mario Galaxy, as mentioned, is spectacular and received a near-perfect score from all game reviews. Legend of Zelda is close behind, followed by other popular titles: Super Smash Brothers, Super Paper Mario, Mario Kart Wii... And it even has some popular shared titles like Guitar Hero, Rock Band, Resident Evil, and Bully. So in summary, the Wii is nothing to sneeze at, even as a serious gamer.

2) Admittedly, the Wii is aimed at a more general audience. It's long been said that graphics mean nothing unless the game is fun. The Wii has countless fun games with graphics which, to a gamer, would be considered poor. Yet the Wii has surpassed the 360 and PS3 in sales despite its technical drawbacks. Why? Because it's fun. That's what gaming is about... not amazing graphics. Sure they help, but they don't make the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukaz View Post

Now Apple doesn't make things half way. They normally sell more "spicy" products, both in features and in price...

Actually, Macs are quite feature-limited... even the MacPro has the option of only two or three graphics cards. If you're so obsessed with graphics, I would think you'd care about that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukaz View Post

Even though Apple is now "Who needs physical discs to transfer data, wi-fi is the future, dude!!!", i think it would be wise also to include blu-ray, but as said before, Apple can survive well alone with Wi-fi, although one's DVD collection would turn useless and ATV would therefore not be the complete ultimate television entertainment all-in-one....

I don't think Apple will completely avoid Blu-Ray... after all, their own operating system is becoming large enough to fit on multiple DVDs... I wouldn't want to download 9 GB of data just to install my OS... Nor would I want to switch two or three DVDs in the install process. I had to do that with Panther's CDs and it was annoying as hell. Internet isn't fast enough to handle every would-be software/media purchase as a download. There just isn't enough bandwidth. Flash is still too expensive, so sooner or later, Apple will have to resort to optical media sooner or later. Now whether they will break down and add it to appleTV is subject to a another debate.

I will say this though. If they added it now before most people have purchased a Blu-Ray player, they could create the (as you say) "ultimate television entertainment all-in-one"

-Clive
My Mod: G4 Cube + Atom 330 CPU + Wiimote = Ultimate HTPC!
(Might I recommend the Libertarian Party as a good compromise between the equally terrible "DnR"?)
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My Mod: G4 Cube + Atom 330 CPU + Wiimote = Ultimate HTPC!
(Might I recommend the Libertarian Party as a good compromise between the equally terrible "DnR"?)
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post #22 of 69
Games you can buy straight from Home without going to a retailer makes a lot of sense. Apple tv has a intel chip inside so am pretty sure it can do a lot move than served as a portal to rent movies
& watch youtube videos. A year ago everyone Laugh on how it couldn't handle HD, and this year they solve that with a simple Update
post #23 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by HVMediaSolutions View Post

Apple TV 3, the XBOX killer.

3D graphics and rent your games online. Network your games online or LAN with other Apple TVs.

Cool!

Ed

It will need a HD and A DVD / Blue ray as good 3d games are too big to be download only.
post #24 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

Apple TV doesn't have a very good 3d processor...

Doesn't have to be. Imagine iPhone games can be played on AppleTV just the same way. That can be nice add on. Buying games on AppleTV using built in online GameStore sound good to me.

I really love the idea of online Applications Store. I think we will see this method of buying software expand to computers.
post #25 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

Imagine iPhone games can be played on AppleTV...

Yeah, a game written for a 480x320 display will look AWESOME on that 1080p TV screen.



-Clive
My Mod: G4 Cube + Atom 330 CPU + Wiimote = Ultimate HTPC!
(Might I recommend the Libertarian Party as a good compromise between the equally terrible "DnR"?)
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My Mod: G4 Cube + Atom 330 CPU + Wiimote = Ultimate HTPC!
(Might I recommend the Libertarian Party as a good compromise between the equally terrible "DnR"?)
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post #26 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive At Five View Post

Yeah, a game written for a 480x320 display will look AWESOME on that 1080p TV screen.



-Clive

I didn't say games can be moved to from iPhone to AppleTV. I said the same games can be played on AppleTV the same way some games are being ported/developed for the iPhone. If a game was developed for the iPhone then it will be easily ported to AppleTV without redoing the whole thing. Go watched and listen to what was said on iPhone 2.0 event about iPhone games. iPhone games developed in just 2 weeks.

Furthermore, some people still watch movies on TVs using their iPods!!
post #27 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonard View Post

I sadly think the patent info is being overblown into a gaming solution (more is being read into it than it really is). I think the patent is more targetted as a better on-screen remote for the Apple TV, than a controller for games. Then again, maybe I'm being too pessimistic.

This is far more complex than would be needed for a controllor for the Atv.

If you read it carefully, you would have read the references.

Quote:
Console also can have one or more connectors to which accessories can be coupled. Accessories can include cables and/or, game cartridges,

Bolding mine.
post #28 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukaz View Post

Guys, I think there's no way Apple will use this patent in the current AppleTV! Look at Wii!!

Wii may have an awesome controller, but the rest is a crap! Tell me what you like, folks, but I won't play a game only because the gameplay is good if my eyes burn every time time I look up to the screen. If Nintendo "saltied" the price of the Wii a bit more in exchange for a bit better graphics I would have bought one in the day it came out...

Now Apple doesn't make things half way. They normally sell more "spicy" products, both in features and in price. Now, think about the true second generation Apple TV, the ultimate all-in-one for television entertainment. The standard Apple TV features, but with a redesigned interdace and a OS for its own. more powerful hardware, with a better 3-axis point-sensing controll like the Wii's but not a dirty copy, something different. Perhaps with a touch screen of some sort in a part of the remote or covering the whole thing. Also some kind of support to a add-on for Touches/iPhones to become like the remote itself if its controll are 100% touchscreen. (A piece of hardware connected through the dock connector) It's powerful hardware can make gaming experience something of a wii/ps3, but with something Apple in it.

Even though Apple is now "Who needs physical discs to transfer data, wi-fi is the future, dude!!!", i think it would be wise also to include blu-ray, but as said before, Apple can survive well alone with Wi-fi, although one's DVD collection would turn useless and ATV would therefore not be the complete ultimate television entertainment all-in-one....

Have you missed the fact that the Wii is the largest selling game console out there? By far?

It cant be burning everyones eyes out.

Perhaps you should see a doctor. My daughter and her friends use it all the time, from her older 20" Tv, to my new 61" LED DLP rear projection, and I have to say that it looks real good, despite only having 480p widescreen.
post #29 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive At Five View Post

Yeah, a game written for a 480x320 display will look AWESOME on that 1080p TV screen.



-Clive

Ah, but it depends on how those games are written.

Some of my older games for my original Palm IIIC, their first color PDA with 160 x 160, turned out to run at 320 x 320 on my Treo 700p when I moved them to that device.

These games can be written the same way, when higher rez is required, they will run in that mode. It's done all the time.

And the best the Wii can do is 480p widescreen, but it looks awesome on my big set.
post #30 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

Doesn't have to be. Imagine iPhone games can be played on AppleTV just the same way. That can be nice add on.

You want to rub against your TV?
Quote:
I think we will see this method of buying software expand to computers.

Last.. four? software titles I have bought, I have bought off the net.
post #31 of 69
Forget games; give us Safari already.
post #32 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive At Five View Post

Yeah, a game written for a 480x320 display will look AWESOME on that 1080p TV screen.

I've seen it the other way around, a PSP playing a PS3 game. I don't even know how they do that.
post #33 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I've seen it the other way around, a PSP playing a PS3 game. I don't even know how they do that.

This I could comprehend...

For 1080 -> ~270 (272 to be exact) Just tell the unit to render every 4th pixel of the 1080 image.

Anyone know exactly how it's done, though? I'm curious.

-Clive
My Mod: G4 Cube + Atom 330 CPU + Wiimote = Ultimate HTPC!
(Might I recommend the Libertarian Party as a good compromise between the equally terrible "DnR"?)
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My Mod: G4 Cube + Atom 330 CPU + Wiimote = Ultimate HTPC!
(Might I recommend the Libertarian Party as a good compromise between the equally terrible "DnR"?)
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post #34 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I've seen it the other way around, a PSP playing a PS3 game. I don't even know how they do that.

Something's strange there. There isn't anything close to enough processing power for that, and they are even two different cpu technologies. Are you sure it's a PS3 game, and not that game, but written for the PSP?

By the way the cpu in the iPhone/iTouch is more powerful than the one in the PSP.
post #35 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Forget games; give us Safari already.

Hear! Hear!

I think one or two versions of the new Cinema Displays will be the new iTV or AppleTv. You know... All-in-one box with the über-remote, which is iPhone 2

The iTV/AppleTV should then have the full blown Leopard OS, in this new All-In-One box, and thus include Safari, iChat and Gaming among other good things! The mouse of cause... would be "iPhone 2" (remote) and as this this patent shows... the new game controller!!!

I would really like my TV to be Apple branded! It would be stylish! No doubt! Yes... I know, this is not their marked - but anyways!

If this Scenario where to happen... companies like DELL and Microsoft would shit their pants!
I love the snappiness - I adore the sazzyness - I need the intuitive
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I love the snappiness - I adore the sazzyness - I need the intuitive
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post #36 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive At Five View Post

This I could comprehend...

For 1080 -> ~270 (272 to be exact) Just tell the unit to render every 4th pixel of the 1080 image.

Anyone know exactly how it's done, though? I'm curious.

-Clive

Probably the "Remote Play" feature. The PSP accepts input and shows the incoming video stream, the PS3 does all the work.
post #37 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Something's strange there. There isn't anything close to enough processing power for that, and they are even two different cpu technologies. Are you sure it's a PS3 game, and not that game, but written for the PSP?

By the way the cpu in the iPhone/iTouch is more powerful than the one in the PSP.

Gon got it right. Apparently the wireless link sends the input and brings in the video. So I guess it's just a fancy take on VNC or SlingBox.
post #38 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Gon got it right. Apparently the wireless link sends the input and brings in the video. So I guess it's just a fancy take on VNC or SlingBox.

Yeah, that sounds more like it. A wireless remote control with the monitor built-in.

Not a bad idea, actually.
post #39 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive At Five View Post

You can't be serious, right? Before I start, I'd like to establish that I am a person who appreciates really good graphics.

1) I have had no problems with the graphical quality of the Wii. Certainly, it's not a polygon cruncher, but the only issues I've seen are with games that blatently attempt to squeeze more out of the Wii than they should. For development teams who know better, they produce beautiful images with beautiful rendering... most notably, Super Mario Galaxy. The art in the game is amazing... and I'm using the composite cables!!!! Also, there's more to a game than its graphics. There's story, gameplay, music, etc... If I were to look at xbox 360 and PS3, I would see only a couple really good reasons to consider buying one... Halo 3, GTA IV, and... uh... Call of Duty? ...maybe? The Wii has a number of really great games... Super Mario Galaxy, as mentioned, is spectacular and received a near-perfect score from all game reviews. Legend of Zelda is close behind, followed by other popular titles: Super Smash Brothers, Super Paper Mario, Mario Kart Wii... And it even has some popular shared titles like Guitar Hero, Rock Band, Resident Evil, and Bully. So in summary, the Wii is nothing to sneeze at, even as a serious gamer.

2) Admittedly, the Wii is aimed at a more general audience. It's long been said that graphics mean nothing unless the game is fun. The Wii has countless fun games with graphics which, to a gamer, would be considered poor. Yet the Wii has surpassed the 360 and PS3 in sales despite its technical drawbacks. Why? Because it's fun. That's what gaming is about... not amazing graphics. Sure they help, but they don't make the game.



Actually, Macs are quite feature-limited... even the MacPro has the option of only two or three graphics cards. If you're so obsessed with graphics, I would think you'd care about that.



I don't think Apple will completely avoid Blu-Ray... after all, their own operating system is becoming large enough to fit on multiple DVDs... I wouldn't want to download 9 GB of data just to install my OS... Nor would I want to switch two or three DVDs in the install process. I had to do that with Panther's CDs and it was annoying as hell. Internet isn't fast enough to handle every would-be software/media purchase as a download. There just isn't enough bandwidth. Flash is still too expensive, so sooner or later, Apple will have to resort to optical media sooner or later. Now whether they will break down and add it to appleTV is subject to a another debate.

I will say this though. If they added it now before most people have purchased a Blu-Ray player, they could create the (as you say) "ultimate television entertainment all-in-one"

-Clive

Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Have you missed the fact that the Wii is the largest selling game console out there? By far?

It cant be burning everyones eyes out.

Perhaps you should see a doctor. My daughter and her friends use it all the time, from her older 20" Tv, to my new 61" LED DLP rear projection, and I have to say that it looks real good, despite only having 480p widescreen.

@Clive

1- I didn't say Macs weren't limited in hardware in this point, after all no console can have its graphics crad or RAM replaced or increased. But compare a Mac's hardware with equivalent Dells and you see the diference is not that huge. Then compare Wii's 700Mhz processor, 128 MB of ram and some 30-50 MB of video to PS3's 3 GHZ processor, 256MB of XDR and its 256 card and things start to get more creepy.
2- All of the game you've mentioned are developed by Nintendo, with more knowlogde about their own console and with developers more concentrated in producing a great game rather than just impress everyone with the controller as half of Wii's developers are doing (Rayman Raving Rabids sunk a great franchise)
3- I've mentioned before I don't care about graphics alone, but.... they could have been a *bit* more generous with Wii's hardware.

@Melgross

Have you missed the fact that a large bunch of people that bought the Wii are more casual games and many never had much contact with a console? Yeah, I may have exagerated with the burning stuff but the diference between Wii and PS3 in HUGE, my friend.
post #40 of 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gon View Post

You want to rub against your TV? Last.. four? software titles I have bought, I have bought off the net.

Well, I guess the article clearly talk about a game controlled \

And the same way means using controller motion sensors. Use your brain a little, it never hurts

And yes I know you can buy software using the net, I am living in 2008 too you know. My point is this method provide safe, affordable, and easy way to find and install software. For small developer this can reduce the cost of marketing, hosting, and distribution of software. For consumers it provide safer and lower price software. I don't feel safe giving my credit card number for just any website that sell software, I feel safer buying products online from Apple iTunes or similar.
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