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AT&T to boost 3G speeds more than fivefold by 2009 - Page 2

post #41 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by merdhead View Post

The benefit is that the computing industry understands scale, so they will be looking for a worldwide standard market. Anything wireless is going to mean there is some international variation but I think the hardware will try to support it.

WiMAX started rolling out last year, by the time the GSM people start their rollout, which looks to me like 2010 WiMAX will have had a few years start. WiMAX has the added advantage of being integrated into new Intel laptop chips and probably other Intel products. They're also cutting to the chase which is mobile data. You'll note that LTE is an all IP technology, so all calls will be VOIP, so to speak. Phone companies are backward looking and wedded to voice and SMS, and over-charging for it, that will be their eventual undoing.

WiMAX has absolutely zero chance of widespread success here in the UK. We've one WiMAX provider...

http://www.trustedreviews.com/networ...ce-Launched/p1

..and they're 10 times more expensive and slower than 3G.
post #42 of 90
Forget WiMAX, I have been hearing enthusiastic people championing it for so long now that it clear it aint gonna go anywhere. When i worked for a large network equipment company we took it seriously for about 5 mins and then moved on.

Many people put their faith in wifi, alas it is starting to look like wifi will remain a technology only useful for corporate and home wireless. Plans to wifi cities are starting to be withdrawn and the ones have have already done it are know realizing that it probably is not the future.

It seems the mobile crowd were right all along, I actually did believe at one point that they would struggle. I had my first 3G phone in 1993 but had involvement with a 3G network a year or two earlier than that and was not too impressed but over the years things have improved and really there can't be much doubt that mobile networks as we know today will start to become the most used way for network connectivity from the majority of devices.

It is amazing really that Apple still do not ship there notebooks with a 3G option, this surely has to be included in the next revisions of the Mac Book Pro and Mac Book Air?
post #43 of 90
The 3G capabilities will presumably add value to much of the iPhone's attractiveness. But as an iPhone user, I'm still very unhappy with ATT's coverage and am thinking about a switch back to Verizon despite all else the phone offers. Without cellphone utility might as well have an iTouch and a good cellphone.
post #44 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by auxio View Post

Revolution? I thought a lot of people were already dating wirelessly? I guess the increased bandwidth will allow for on-the-go HD video chats, but that's hardly a revolution...
On second thought...

Spectacularly well done man, truly.
post #45 of 90
Re: Phone companies

I would be willing to bet the minute nonsense will finally be done away with soon enough, as will even the charge per KB or MB nonsense in the next few years. What we may see instead are differences in speed, throttling once particular limits have been reached within a particular time period, paying to have higher of either, etc.

I think two year contracts are here to stay though.

But I'm just pulling this from my... yeah.

Edit:
companies is spelled companies not comapnies

How did I do that?
post #46 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by murphyweb View Post

Forget WiMAX, I have been hearing enthusiastic people championing it for so long now that it clear it aint gonna go anywhere. When i worked for a large network equipment company we took it seriously for about 5 mins and then moved on.

I have trouble believing that. Do you seriously believe both Google and Intel would invest all of that capital in an obvious "loser" (Clearwire)? They've done their homework and have good reason to support it.

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post #47 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by razorpit View Post

That's not good. I drive that route a lot myself and that could be an issue. I've been holding out for a 3G iPhone. I currently have Sprint and pretty much always have service along that same route.

Might wanna grab a friend/a friend's phone for the ride one day to check it out yourself.
post #48 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by murphyweb View Post

Forget WiMAX, I have been hearing enthusiastic people championing it for so long now that it clear it aint gonna go anywhere. When i worked for a large network equipment company we took it seriously for about 5 mins and then moved on.

Many people put their faith in wifi, alas it is starting to look like wifi will remain a technology only useful for corporate and home wireless. Plans to wifi cities are starting to be withdrawn and the ones have have already done it are know realizing that it probably is not the future.

It seems the mobile crowd were right all along, I actually did believe at one point that they would struggle. I had my first 3G phone in 1993 but had involvement with a 3G network a year or two earlier than that and was not too impressed but over the years things have improved and really there can't be much doubt that mobile networks as we know today will start to become the most used way for network connectivity from the majority of devices.

It is amazing really that Apple still do not ship there notebooks with a 3G option, this surely has to be included in the next revisions of the Mac Book Pro and Mac Book Air?

It's funny, you write off WiMAX at the start and then ask why you can't get built in data in laptops. If mobile phone companies are the answer, why don't we have wireless data for our computers now? Because the technology is non-standard, its heavily encumbered with patents and restrictions and the network operators are oligopalists, not visionaries, who want to make money by limiting your choices.

WiMAX will provide an open standard with a goal of developing massive scale. That's how the computer industry works. It isn't easy getting to critical mass, but when it gets there it will slay the phone companies and you won't think about your mobile phone becoming your computer, it'll just be that every computer is naturally connected to the net, all the time, wirelessly.
post #49 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post

WiMAX has absolutely zero chance of widespread success here in the UK. We've one WiMAX provider...

http://www.trustedreviews.com/networ...ce-Launched/p1

..and they're 10 times more expensive and slower than 3G.

So you can get 40G a month for 5 pounds a month on HSPA? Which phone company offers that? I'd also say that 2M/1M is comparable to HSPA. Anyway you'd hardly judge by the first entrant. SO you're saying no one else is going to enter the market? Right...
post #50 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by macinthe408 View Post

In typical Apple fanboy fashion, I'm eschewing the 3G iPhone and starting the online clamor for the 4G iPhone. When do you think it will be released? Apple needs to get on their 4G game if they plan on enticing customers.

After Apple's first HSPA phone in 2008 (it may not even include HSUPA), the 2009/2010 iPhone should include HSPA+ - which offers 50% talktime battery life improvements, speeds up to 42Mbit/s, dramatic latency improvements and spectacular network capacity increases.

That should hold us over until 2010/2011 when the LTE iPhone has enough processing power and LTE network coverage to start using LTE's blazing speeds starting at 326.4Mbit/s.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

If it's true, then it's probably not by much. All the US phone companies are problematic, and Sprint is part of a pretty tight grouping..

Sprint has not ruled out rolling out LTE. Verizon, AT&T and T-Mobile have announced their plans to. If The T-Mobile merger goes ahead, LTE is a certainty for Sprint.

Quote:
Originally Posted by merdhead View Post

It's funny, you write off WiMAX at the start and then ask why you can't get built in data in laptops.

Over here most mid-range and high end laptops come with HSPA built in or as an available internal option. Dell, Lenovo, Acer, Asus, HP and Toshiba are some popular brands which all have available HSPA but which not be available in your country.

Quote:
Originally Posted by merdhead View Post

WiMAX will provide an open standard with a goal of developing massive scale.

Over 3 billion customers are on interoperable 3GSM/HSPA networks. HSPA is available today in 73 countries. Considerable investment has been made in these network, most countries have several HSPA networks competing with each other and the networks have a great upgrade path to HSPA+ and LTE in the future.

Much of the current work on the LTE project is building in an easy upgrade path for the network builders who will have unfortunately found themselves stuck in 2012 with a legacy Wimax network no-one wants to use.

WiMax is set to become the next HD-DVD. HSPA and HSPA+ are outstanding enough to compete with it today, and with LTE on the horizon, it seems pointless to spend massively on building new Wimax infrastructure.

HSPA+ devices are seamlessly backward compatible with HSPA/UMTS/EDGE/GPRS giving the best capabilities of whatever network is in range. 218 countries have compatible networks (over 700 of them)!
post #51 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by retroneo View Post

After Apple's first HSPA phone in 2008 (it may not even include HSUPA), the 2009/2010 iPhone should include HSPA+ - which offers 50% talktime battery life improvements, speeds up to 42Mbit/s, dramatic latency improvements and spectacular network capacity increases.

That should hold us over until 2010/2011 when the LTE iPhone has enough processing power and LTE network coverage to start using LTE's blazing speeds starting at 326.4Mbit/s.



Sprint has not ruled out rolling out LTE. Verizon, AT&T and T-Mobile have announced their plans to. If The T-Mobile merger goes ahead, LTE is a certainty for Sprint.



Over here most mid-range and high end laptops come with HSPA built in or as an available internal option. Dell, Lenovo, Acer, Asus, HP and Toshiba are some popular brands which all have available HSPA but which not be available in your country.



Over 3 billion customers are on interoperable 3GSM/HSPA networks. HSPA is available today in 73 countries. Considerable investment has been made in these network, most countries have several HSPA networks competing with each other and the networks have a great upgrade path to HSPA+ and LTE in the future.

Much of the current work on the LTE project is building in an easy upgrade path for the network builders who will have unfortunately found themselves stuck in 2012 with a legacy Wimax network no-one wants to use.

WiMax is set to become the next HD-DVD. HSPA and HSPA+ are outstanding enough to compete with it today, and with LTE on the horizon, it seems pointless to spend massively on building new Wimax infrastructure.

HSPA+ devices are seamlessly backward compatible with HSPA/UMTS/EDGE/GPRS giving the best capabilities of whatever network is in range. 218 countries have compatible networks (over 700 of them)!

3 billion customers, the vast majority of which don't use 3G and don't use data. The point is not GSM's head start, its that the industry is setup for milking the customer on voice and SMS. I think CDMA is HD-DVD, WiMAX is a different business to the mobile phone business. Where ever 'over here' is, it's not America and Western Europe where most laptops have no such wireless connectivity.

The mobile phone industry is focusing on closed machines centred around voice, when what people really want long term is general purpose machines which are open and more powerful.
post #52 of 90
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post #53 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by merdhead View Post

3 billion customers, the vast majority of which don't use 3G and don't use data.

Today text messaging is the most widely used mobile data service on the planet, with 72% of all mobile phone users worldwide or 1.9 Billion users. As their users data requirements grow, more EDGE networks will upgrade to HSPA. 73 countries now have HSPA networks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by merdhead View Post

The point is not GSM's head start, its that the industry is setup for milking the customer on voice and SMS.

I find it odd that you argue that the actions of Wimax carriers are less likely to milk customers without providing any justification. Wimax networks are even more expensive to build and those costs have to be recovered somehow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by merdhead View Post

The mobile phone industry is focusing on closed machines centred around voice, when what people really want long term is general purpose machines which are open and more powerful.

I fail to see what is closed about a GSM or HSPA phone or laptop. An unlocked phone will work on any GSM or HSPA network in the world. Conversely, a network locked Wimax device will only work on its own carrier. Your point?

Without network locks, any one of the 3 billion SIM cards can be inserted in any of the 3 billion GSM/HSPA phones or laptops and the device would work in seconds with no additional configuration. It's probably the most open standard in the world. Amazing.
post #54 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by merdhead View Post

Yes everyone pronounced Bluetooth dead several times and it eventually became huge. Why? Because it's a good idea. So is WiMAX. LTE, the 4G version of GSM is realistically not going to be rolled out before next decade and maybe 2013. Given how long it took mobile phones to take it I think you can cut WiMAX some slack.

Intel are still committed, delays are typical, doesn't mean it won't happen.

Interesting enough, Nokia released a WiMax Internet Tablet. Supposedly from some of the forums it is quite useable in WiMax environments.
post #55 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by merdhead View Post

Yeah it takes a long time, but they're still ahead of the GSM people on 4G technology.

LTE isn't really GSM, though it is backwards-compatible with it.

GSM is TDMA-based, LTE is OFDM-based... a very different and much more advanced tech. Even some CDMA carriers, like Verizon, are going to LTE.



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post #56 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden View Post

The 3G capabilities will presumably add value to much of the iPhone's attractiveness. But as an iPhone user, I'm still very unhappy with ATT's coverage and am thinking about a switch back to Verizon despite all else the phone offers. Without cellphone utility might as well have an iTouch and a good cellphone.

I have been saying this for weeks, months, etc... The phone part of the iPhone part is not that great, but the rest is pretty good.
post #57 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

If it's true, then it's probably not by much. All the US phone companies are problematic, and Sprint is part of a pretty tight grouping. Every carrier has an overall satisfaction / dissatisfaction rating that differs at most by maybe a percent or two from the others. This is from a wide survey of every region, not individual anecdotes.

Mmm... no. Sprint is in very serious trouble right now, having suffered a net loss of over 1 million customers in Q1 alone. The other national carriers (Verizon, ATT, T-Mobile) by contrast, all net gained 1 to 1.5 million customers in Q1.

Sprint's churn rate (the rate at which customers leave) is much higher than it is for the other national carriers, to the point where it's starting to significantly shrink their user base. They are, in effect, bleeding customers. \

They're not quite in a death-spiral yet (like the old ATT Wireless, before the Cingular buy-out), but they need to do something serious, like sell or spin-off Nextel, where the problems are the worst. According to some reports, Sprint top management is already strongly considering such a step.


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post #58 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

WiMax hasn't lived up to its over the top hype. In fact, one Australian company that rolled out WiMax lambasted it at the last WiMax conference because it's not really working out on a wide scale. Couple that with the delays in getting anything deployed, delays in inclusion in even Intel's consumer wireless chipsets, it's an open question whether it will be eclipsed before it can catch on.


Quote:
Originally Posted by murphyweb View Post

Forget WiMAX, I have been hearing enthusiastic people championing it for so long now that it clear it aint gonna go anywhere. When i worked for a large network equipment company we took it seriously for about 5 mins and then moved on.

Although this is only my experience with one service provider in one area, it was Clearwire (who is partnering with Sprint for Wimax build-out). My sister had Clearwire WiMax service in Boise, Idaho. She was in an apartment that was apparently outside the cable loop. Anyways, long story short, the service was crap. The signal was intermittent, and even when it was good, the speeds were very slow, usually around 200-400kbps (25K/s -> 50K/s) download if you were lucky and the latency was even worse --- in the 700-1500ms range. Thats almost worse than my old DirecPC satellite system from 10 years ago!!. Now I'm not saying that that's necessarily indicative of everyone's experience, but I sure am not holding my breath for Wimax. Couple this with the fact that Sprint's cash and customer base is hemorrhaging faster than a drunk hemophiliac and I don't think they'll be around long enough to even launch the network.
post #59 of 90
AT&T can promise anything, but until they put up some more towers it is all of no use to me.

I live in Iowa - just 4 miles north of Iowa City, a Big 10 University town, on I-80.

My Verizon cell phone has 5 bars, and my friend's iPhone had ZERO signal here when he came to demonstrate it to me. AT&T's coverage outside of big cities is a joke. I will never forgive the Verizon CEO for turning down Apple because they have a much better network and it could have been a great combination.

So, I can forget the iPhone until the AT&T network gets expanded.

Find all towers and coverge here:

http://www.cellreception.com/towers/

and for AT&T towers, go here:

http://www.wireless.att.com/coverage...l=calltoaction
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post #60 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

LTE isn't really GSM, though it is backwards-compatible with it.

GSM is TDMA-based, LTE is OFDM-based... a very different and much more advanced tech. Even some CDMA carriers, like Verizon, are going to LTE.



.

I'm using GSM to refer to the whole grouping, as in the GSM association, who support GSM, UMTS and LTE.
post #61 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by retroneo View Post

Today text messaging is the most widely used mobile data service on the planet, with 72% of all mobile phone users worldwide or 1.9 Billion users. As their users data requirements grow, more EDGE networks will upgrade to HSPA. 73 countries now have HSPA networks.



I find it odd that you argue that the actions of Wimax carriers are less likely to milk customers without providing any justification. Wimax networks are even more expensive to build and those costs have to be recovered somehow.



I fail to see what is closed about a GSM or HSPA phone or laptop. An unlocked phone will work on any GSM or HSPA network in the world. Conversely, a network locked Wimax device will only work on its own carrier. Your point?

Without network locks, any one of the 3 billion SIM cards can be inserted in any of the 3 billion GSM/HSPA phones or laptops and the device would work in seconds with no additional configuration. It's probably the most open standard in the world. Amazing.

I think you're missing the point. The point isn't what you can or can't do with mobile phones, the point is the business models and industry orientation. If you look at it from a technical point of view it's all fairly meaningless, but what is a somewhat subtle difference will make a profound difference in how wireless networks are used in the future.
post #62 of 90
Just a bit of technological seasoning for the soup.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3GPP_Long_Term_Evolution.

It looks like all technologies will have a place and roll to play in the future.
post #63 of 90
Ok, AT&T may have a way to go for coverage. I get 3G and 3.5G in New York City (ok, bad example, it better be good in the largest metropolis in the nation), but I am excited at this prospect either way. Right now I get pretty solid 15fps streams live from my mobile using Next2Friends Live. Since their live streaming from mobile is scalable it may be a matter of months before I am able to stream 30fps video from my mobile. That's pretty exciting, especially for the video blogging community. Of course, it remains to be seen what the actual speeds offered by AT&T will be, but if they are promising 7.2mbps and they only deliver a quarter of that it still could greatly change the internet landscape. Just my two cents.
post #64 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by winterspan View Post

...Sprint's cash and customer base is hemorrhaging faster than a drunk hemophiliac and I don't think they'll be around long enough to even launch the network.

I prefer, "... faster than a hemophiliac in a razor blade factory...".

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post #65 of 90
How much do you think the AT&T plans will change with 3G?
I chose the $20 data plan when I got my iPhone because
I never text message. Hopefully AT&T won't go nuts & bump
that up to $40-$60 range for their cheapest data plan.
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post #66 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by mello View Post

How much do you think the AT&T plans will change with 3G?
I chose the $20 data plan when I got my iPhone because
I never text message. Hopefully AT&T won't go nuts & bump
that up to $40-$60 range for their cheapest data plan.

AT&T won't charge anything extra. You did not choose the $20 data plan, that is the only data plan offered for the iPhone. Text Messaging is billed differently from data.
post #67 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

AT&T won't charge anything extra. You did not choose the $20 data plan, that is the only data plan offered for the iPhone. Text Messaging is billed differently from data.

When I bought my iPhone at launch I was already an AT&T subscriber. I definitely remember three choices for
the data plan. The cheapest was $20 (which I believe had 400-500 texts) , their middle was $40 &
their top was $60 which had unlimited texting.
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post #68 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by mello View Post

When I bought my iPhone at launch I was already an AT&T subscriber. I definitely remember three choices for
the data plan. The cheapest was $20 (which I believe had 400-500 texts) , their middle was $40 &
their top was $60 which had unlimited texting.

The data plans for the iPhone us a set, required price of $20. That does include 200 text messages. The additonal costs are fit more minutes and text messages, but the data charge is still $20.

Back to the topic, I don't think they will raise the price but I also wouldn't be suprised if they did. If EDGE iPhones were rampant then HSDPA and v2.0 internet apps will really be popular. Plus, they seem to have invested a lot in their 3G network this past year. And perhaps mist telling from a competitive stanpoint, no other US carrier will be able to use the iPhone's 3G network.
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post #69 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by merdhead View Post

I'm using GSM to refer to the whole grouping, as in the GSM association, who support GSM, UMTS and LTE.


Well, again, LTE isn't really GSM. And some CDMA carriers will be supporting LTE too.

UMTS? Not really GSM either... it uses CDMA for its air interface. Hence its other name, WCDMA.

The GSM association can support whatever they like, but the 3G and 4G technologies they're supporting aren't really GSM (more like GSM-compatible) nor will it be only GSM carriers supporting said technologies.

Sorry to be particular.



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post #70 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigPhotos View Post

AT&T can promise anything, but until they put up some more towers it is all of no use to me.

I live in Iowa - just 4 miles north of Iowa City, a Big 10 University town, on I-80.

My Verizon cell phone has 5 bars, and my friend's iPhone had ZERO signal here when he came to demonstrate it to me. AT&T's coverage outside of big cities is a joke. I will never forgive the Verizon CEO for turning down Apple because they have a much better network and it could have been a great combination.

So, I can forget the iPhone until the AT&T network gets expanded.

Find all towers and coverge here:

http://www.cellreception.com/towers/

and for AT&T towers, go here:

http://www.wireless.att.com/coverage...l=calltoaction



This is part of why single-carrier exclusives suck for consumers. \


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post #71 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Back to the topic, I don't think they will raise the price but I also wouldn't be suprised if they did. If EDGE iPhones were rampant then HSDPA and v2.0 internet apps will really be popular. Plus, they seem to have invested a lot in their 3G network this past year. And perhaps mist telling from a competitive stanpoint, no other US carrier will be able to use the iPhone's 3G network.

A price raise isn't impossible but highly unlikely. The money they are spending on their 3G build out is to catch up with Verizon and Sprint. AT&T already offers unlimited voice, messaging, and data for $135.
post #72 of 90
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post #73 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slewis View Post

Not exactly, NTT DoCoMo based their W-CDMA technology on CDMA for their FOMA network but it's not exactly the same, and UMTS is not W-CDMA either, W-CDMA is the underlying air interface but they are not synonymous, although most UMTS implementations are using W-CDMA.

To be more specific, UMTS is basically just a collection of technologies and can use either W-CDMA, TD-CDMA, or TD-SCDMA, it also uses GSM's speech codecs and the GSM MAP (Mobile application part) core.


Fair enough... I wasn't trying to be super-particular.

I think the majority of my point still stands. UMTS is a mutt, and LTE isn't really GSM either. GSM is pretty old tech.


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post #74 of 90
Null.
Þ & þ are called "Thorn" & þey represent þe sound you've associated "th" wiþ since þe 13þ or 14þ century. I'm bringing it back.
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Þ & þ are called "Thorn" & þey represent þe sound you've associated "th" wiþ since þe 13þ or 14þ century. I'm bringing it back.
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post #75 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slewis View Post

Yes, your point still stands for the most part, but UMTS is still using GSM technology (the speech codecs and MAP)...

...which, by themselves, and certainly without the CDMA-based air interface, aren't going to do a whole lot. What there is left of GSM in UMTS is mostly there for backwards-compatibility purposes I'd think. GSM is early '90s tech, it isn't exactly advancing the state of the art.

It's not like anyone is going to dig up GSM's ancient TDMA-based air interface and go, wow, let's keep using this.

Again, UMTS is a mutt, using many technologies. Saying UMTS is GSM is like saying a cake is eggs, though I don't think that's what you're trying to say... more like, a couple of pieces of the puzzle are GSM. I don't think we're really in disagreement here.


Quote:
I don't have enough information on LTE though. OFDMA for the downlink and SC-FDMA for the uplink, E-UTRA is the Air Interface and I really have no clue what that is, I just barely understand these acronyms anyway, but hopefully within 7 days that will change.

What happens in 7 days? Taking a class? If so, very cool. I'm kinda envious.


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Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
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Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
Thanks for listening to your...
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post #76 of 90
Null.
Þ & þ are called "Thorn" & þey represent þe sound you've associated "th" wiþ since þe 13þ or 14þ century. I'm bringing it back.
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Þ & þ are called "Thorn" & þey represent þe sound you've associated "th" wiþ since þe 13þ or 14þ century. I'm bringing it back.
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post #77 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slewis View Post

Um, speech codecs are kind of not a backwards compatibility technology, they're what UMTS is using right now.

Which is why I said "mostly", not "all".


Quote:
No, I'm not, but telecommunications is part of what I'm studying independently (outside of my regular school work). I'm interested in 3 things right now:
1. City Architecture and Design
2. How information technology and semiconductors can improve the infrastructure of a city.
3. How Green Tech and Plant Biology can improve the conditions of a city.

Telecommunications falls under number 2, and I'm taking this week to study it more thoroughly, maybe longer if needed.

Would green architecture and new urbanism be among the things you study? Both fascinating subjects to me.


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Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
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Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
To the 'We Didn't Need It' Crowd/Apple Apologista Squad : Wrong again, lol
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post #78 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by merdhead View Post

So you can get 40G a month for 5 pounds a month on HSPA? Which phone company offers that? I'd also say that 2M/1M is comparable to HSPA. Anyway you'd hardly judge by the first entrant. SO you're saying no one else is going to enter the market? Right...

Nobody has since the WiMax spectrum was sold in 2004 (IIRC). We had two pilot schemes in ONE town but now it's available properly, it's 50 quid for 40GB when people are used to paying under a tenner for 'unlimited' 8mbps ADSL.

3 (the mobile network) is currently doing £5 a month tariffs inc a free HSDPA USB modem here - 2.8mbps / 1GB bandwidth. It works across the whole country, and all of Europe, not just Milton Keynes.

O2 - with the iPhone - do unlimited data. They charge non-iPhone users £6.38+VAT for the same plan. Interestingly they have a fair use policy of 200MB which they waved on the iPhone. It'll be interesting to see what they do with 3G but usually in the UK 3G data is no more expensive than non-3G.

But anyway, what is the point of having another wireless network that is only as fast as the existing 3G network? If they were getting 20mbps+ (faster than LLU networks) or something like that, then I'd perhaps see the point (and if I lived in Milton Keynes).

Back in 2006, The Reg had this to say...

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/07...wimax-outlook/

WiMAX is dead in the water here. It's just not wanted.
post #79 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by mello View Post

How much do you think the AT&T plans will change with 3G?

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Back to the topic, I don't think they will raise the price but I also wouldn't be suprised if they did.

I highly doubt they are going to change data prices. None of the carriers in the USA have done this in the past, nor do any of them right now, including AT&T. You can buy either an EDGE phone or UMTS phone and the data packages are the exact same price. Regarding the iPhone, that would not only be a big pain for Apple's simplicity model, but how would they compensate people living outside of 3G areas? It wouldn't be fair for them. And if they did differentiate data packages (which they don't now) people would be switching them all the time as they move cities or as new 3G areas come online. Besides, How would they keep someone who has a 3G phone but only signed up for EDGE service off of the 3G network. I doubt they have the technical capability to give conditional access based upon whether the tower is 3G or EDGE --- I would assume they would both authenticate to the same backend database.

Every way you look at it, differentiating between EDGE and 3G for data packages introduces technical and sales complexity, and I'd assume thats why they don't do it now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

I prefer, "... faster than a hemophiliac in a razor blade factory...".

hahah. I like that one better.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

Well, again, LTE isn't really GSM. And some CDMA carriers will be supporting LTE too.

UMTS? Not really GSM either... it uses CDMA for its air interface. Hence its other name, WCDMA.

The GSM association can support whatever they like, but the 3G and 4G technologies they're supporting aren't really GSM (more like GSM-compatible) nor will it be only GSM carriers supporting said technologies.

Sorry to be particular.
.

You are not getting what he is saying, and it looks like you are just doing it to be a pain in the ass. He said he was talking about the GSM association / 3GPP group. They are the marketing and standards groups for putting together GSM, UMTS, and LTE. No one said on a technical level that GSM, UMTS, and LTE are the same, or even related.

And you are not even being particular anyways. W-CDMA sure as hell isn't "another name" for generic "CDMA". Although they both use a type of code division, they are vastly different technical standards.
post #80 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by winterspan View Post

I highly doubt they are going to change data prices. None of the carriers in the USA have done this in the past, nor do any of them right now, including AT&T. You can buy either an EDGE phone or UMTS phone and the data packages are the exact same price. Regarding the iPhone, that would not only be a big pain for Apple's simplicity model, but how would they compensate people living outside of 3G areas? It wouldn't be fair for them. And if they did differentiate data packages (which they don't now) people would be switching them all the time as they move cities or as new 3G areas come online. Besides, How would they keep someone who has a 3G phone but only signed up for EDGE service off of the 3G network. I doubt they have the technical capability to give conditional access based upon whether the tower is 3G or EDGE --- I would assume they would both authenticate to the same backend database.

Every way you look at it, differentiating between EDGE and 3G for data packages introduces technical and sales complexity, and I'd assume thats why they don't do it now.

I'm not suggesting that they would offer two different data packages for the iPhone, but that they would do a market bump of the HDPA iPhone data plan cost for all new contracts (which would conveniently happen to include the new iPhone).

We know the iPhone uses a lot of data because of its browser. We can assume that HSDPA will make this even more popular to use and that 3rd-party apps utilizing the internet functions could weight in heavily too.

We also know that the unlimited/unlimited data packages for their other phones is quite a bit more expensive than the iPhone's data plan. I believe that AT&T's unlimited/unlimited data plans are $35/month. It seems that all the US carriers have retooled their data plans and one way AT&T might compensate is simple to make the iPhone's dat plan the same as their other smartphones, after all they know the 3G feature can only be used on AT&T's network in the States so they kinda have the customer by the balls for and extra $15/month.
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