or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › AT&T now limiting iPhone sales to one, requiring credit card
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

AT&T now limiting iPhone sales to one, requiring credit card - Page 2

post #41 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by BuzDots View Post

Well, not a real good analogy.....
but, I bet if I walk in to ANY car dealership with 50,000 rolls of pennies (a mere $25,000.00) they will be damn glad to carry them to the bank!

All items become debts at the time you try to walk out of the store without paying for them.\

IANAL.

That's not a debt; it's theft.

A debt occurs when two parties enter into a mutual agreement, in which one party agrees to deliver a good or service up front, and the second party promises to make payment for that good or service at some point in the future.

For example, it might be argued that when you eat at a classy restarurant (the kind where you eat first, then settle the bill afterwords), it would be illegal for the restauranteur to refuse cash payment.

That being said, in many jurisdictions there are regulatory limits on what denominations of cash may be used to settle a debt. For example, it would be considered unreasonable to expect a corner store to be able to provide change for a $1000 bill on a piece of 5ยข candy. There are often similar limits on how many pennies you can use before you'd be expected to start using nickles, and how many nickles you could use before you'd have to start using dimes, etc.

Of course, these sorts of regulatory limits are typically voluntary - if a car salesman wanted to accept your rolls of pennies, he'd be perfectly within his rights to do so. However, he'd also be jusitfied in refusing it.

On the other hand, after you've signed the lease or mortgage, the credit agency cannot refuse cash payments (in reasonable denominations) to repay the lease or mortgage. Or, more on topic for this case, after you've purchased the iPhone using a credit card, it would be illegal for the credit card company to refuse repayment to them in cash.

[EDIT]
I don't know if the post just below this one is directed at me or not.
I was simply explaining my disagreement with the assertion made by somebody else that "All items become debts at the time you try to walk out of the store without paying for them".

To be absolutely clear:
I do not think any legal tender rights are being violated in this case.
[/EDIT]
post #42 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by BuzDots View Post

Now I don't believe in stupid lawsuits, but here is one legal action that need to be undertaken.

It may and should be Constitutionally unlawful for anyone conducting business in the United States to refuse the "...LEGAL TENDER FOR ALL DEBTS PUBLIC AND PRIVATE"

All this crap about cash transactions being difficult to audit, the dollar being weak, and how much cash some one should carry is completely friggin irrelevant.

Another ignorant argument that laws regarding legal tender are violated.

If anyone thought that their "legal rights" were being violated, they could have filed lawsuits last year when The Apple Store instituted a similar policy. A valid debt would be if you eaten at a restaurant, you already owe them money, you can't give them their food back. The iphone doesn't compare.

I really don't get it the core complaint either. It's a good feeling to pay for something in cash, but there are risks you take too.
post #43 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by BuzDots View Post

Well, not a real good analogy.....
but, I bet if I walk in to ANY car dealership with 50,000 rolls of pennies (a mere $25,000.00) they will be damn glad to carry them to the bank!

All items become debts at the time you try to walk out of the store without paying for them.\

No, that's the problem - a purchase is distinctly different from a debt (legal definitions) because of the order of it - a purchase you pay, and then you get the good. A debt is created when you get the good before you pay for it.

There are a hundred other examples of things you have to pay for that do not accept certain forms of legal tender. Try paying legal American dollars in an unmanned toll booth (here in the DC area on the Greenway some don't accept bills). Try paying with a legal American $100 next time you buy a pack of gum from a vending machine.

It's a non-issue - Apple has the right to refuse to do business with any customer for any reason they choose, including someone walking around with $800 cash and wanting two iPhones.
post #44 of 52
... it claims "THIS NOTE IS LEGAL TENDER FOR ALL DEBTS, PUBLIC AND PRIVATE". No US merchant can legally refuse to accept US money - that would go for the people who think they don't have to accept bills over $20.00, too. Their problems on handling returns is AT&T's problem - not the consumer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


The exclusive US iPhone carrier said all requests to purchase more than one of the touch-screen handsets must be approved by a director or general manager, adding that cash and checks will no longer be accepted.

"Customers may only use credit or debit cards to purchase their iPhone," the memo says.

post #45 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghokie View Post

... it claims "THIS NOTE IS LEGAL TENDER FOR ALL DEBTS, PUBLIC AND PRIVATE". No US merchant can legally refuse to accept US money - that would go for the people who think they don't have to accept bills over $20.00, too. Their problems on handling returns is AT&T's problem - not the consumer.

Why don't you go and look up what 'debt' means. Buying a product at a retail store doesn't count count as a debt.
post #46 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Why don't you go and look up what 'debt' means. Buying a product at a retail store doesn't count count as a debt.

Here is "a" definition of debt (there are numerous and lengthy): The amount due by a customer in respect of goods supplied or services rendered by you.

Maybe a moot point at this juncture, but I still contend that debt occurs at the split second you walk up to the counter with goods. You can of course elect not to buy the goods, but the seller should not be able to refuse the currency of "the realm"

(the walking out the door theory was purely over simplified sarcasm)

Quote:
There are a hundred other examples of things you have to pay for that do not accept certain forms of legal tender. Try paying legal American dollars in an unmanned toll booth (here in the DC area on the Greenway some don't accept bills). Try paying with a legal American $100 next time you buy a pack of gum from a vending machine.

It's a non-issue - Apple has the right to refuse to do business with any customer for any reason they choose, including someone walking around with $800 cash and wanting two iPhones.

I agree that anyone has the right NOT to do business with another, that is not the point. The point is only accepting arbitrary forms of payment other than those prescribed as the BASE legal tender by the government. My point was never to contravene the use of U.S. currency in different forms and denominations as you referenced first. How pissed are you gonna be if you pull up to the toll booth and they only accept Diners Club?
OMG here we go again...
Reply
OMG here we go again...
Reply
post #47 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by BuzDots View Post

Here is "a" definition of debt (there are numerous and lengthy): The amount due by a customer in respect of goods supplied or services rendered by you.

Maybe a moot point at this juncture, but I still contend that debt occurs at the split second you walk up to the counter with goods. You can of course elect not to buy the goods, but the seller should not be able to refuse the currency of "the realm"

Making the period of debt as short of a few seconds makes for a very contrived argument. I really don't see it as anything but the same transaction.

But really, apparently it's all irrelevant
http://www.ustreas.gov/education/faq...l-tender.shtml

Quote:
There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person or an organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether or not to accept cash unless there is a State law which says otherwise.

Maybe some states have laws like that.

I can't find any lawsuits that really cover this topic.
post #48 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

But really, apparently it's all irrelevant
http://www.ustreas.gov/education/faq...l-tender.shtml

I stand informed! - Thanks for the link.

I guess it is indeed all irrelevant, as a free market economy will ultimately dictate all transactions. (and stock prices)
OMG here we go again...
Reply
OMG here we go again...
Reply
post #49 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by BuzDots View Post

I stand informed! - Thanks for the link.

I guess it is indeed all irrelevant, as a free market economy will ultimately dictate all transactions. (and stock prices)

Gee, isn't that what we were saying?
post #50 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

Gee, isn't that what we were saying?

Nope.
OMG here we go again...
Reply
OMG here we go again...
Reply
post #51 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by BuzDots View Post

I stand informed! - Thanks for the link.

I guess it is indeed all irrelevant, as a free market economy will ultimately dictate all transactions. (and stock prices)

No problem,

Free market works in our favor when it's a buyer's market. Seeing that this policy only covers only one model that's in a temporary shortage, it's working in the favor of the seller. I think the policy will probably change when there's a new supply, either with more of the same or a new model.
post #52 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by billin View Post

Slightly off topic, but does anyone know what Apple's current policy is about paying for an iPhone with gift cards? I just got a bunch of Apple gift cards for my birthday to aid in my purchase of an iPhone in June, but then I started seeing older articles about how Apple was refusing gift cards as payment for iPhones. Confusing the matter further was this link: http://www.iphonefaq.org/archives/97327 which says you can use gift cards, but you have to put at least $20 of the iPhone purchase cost on a credit card.

What's the story nowadays - anyone know?

I saw someone buy 4 iPhones, the last 4 that they had in stock, with a gift card yesterday so it looks like that would work
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: iPhone
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › AT&T now limiting iPhone sales to one, requiring credit card