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What do you guys think about AI's imac roumors? - Page 2

post #41 of 157
[quote]Originally posted by JW Pepper:
<strong>If the screen is really 14.1" there is no way I am going to buy it.

</strong><hr></blockquote>

14.1 is bigger then the current screen. So it IS an improvement. You can't expect them to put in a 15.2 inch widescreen and have the price come in at $999.

I think 14.1 is perfect for the market that they're going for. If its true that it will be 1Ghz, DVD and 14.1 for 999....wow
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post #42 of 157
Let's see, 14.1" TFT, a 1 GHz G3, with a long-overdue graphics upgrade?

I'd buy one in a heartbeat! Let's not forget that this thing will be the coolest looking thing since, well, the last Apple product that was released... and those iPods look pretty sweet!
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post #43 of 157
Clear it properly? Come on, you're making my head hurt ... anything that has to be "cleared properly" better be written well or its just gonna get torn up, especially if it gets posted then yanked then posted.
AI Member since 1998.

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post #44 of 157
Amidala,

You miss the point. To buy an iMac now (in its current form) is a giant waste of money. It offers NOTHING compelling over an iBook for similar money. The market for an iMac is now limited (where perhaps it wasn't before) because all the people like your grandmother who don't care for an expandable computer likely won't care for a replacement for their perfectly usable iMacs either. I don't think it will be expandable either; My feeling is Apple will try to move units through a triumph of industrial design. And it had better be stunning to look at or they're going to have a hard time at the prices they'll want to charge for it.

You can't just write people off as too stupid to know what they need. People have been voting with their checkbooks for the past decade, and despite efforts to the contrary Apple hasn't been able to keep (let alone increase) it's market-share in some markets. Sure Apple is quite healthy, and will continue to be so, but it cannot **as it claims it wants to** increase its market without paying more attention to the buying patterns of all those windows users.

What are they buying? 'Cheap' and 'expandable' computers. While the powermac is expandable, it certainly isn't cheap, and while the iMac is cheap it certainly isn't expandable. 'Stores' and 'Digital Lifestyle' marketing aside, Apple cannot claim to be serious about market-share without taking some care to provide what the rest of the market keeps -- through the best evidence of its own spending -- saying it wants. I believe there is room within Apple's philosophy for a little change. No one is asking for iMac priced powermacs, just a little nod to consumer needs. The space for a good/affordable soundcard is not too much to ask, neither is the ability to swap a video card, or easily change a HDD.

Powermacs will continue to be available with a faster I/O and memory subsystems, and faster and dual proc configs. It isn't simply a choice between iMacs and Powermacs that the market makes: if people can't find the middle ground they seek, they don't just buck-up and buy a powermac, or live with the limits of an iMac, they buy the PC that fits what they need (or think they need)

And that's the truth.
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post #45 of 157
Welll so far from what I've seen from the article I hope it's true.

So Jonathan, who do you have to clear it up with? And when is it gunna be put back on AI?
post #46 of 157
Anyone care to hazard a guess at the relative DVD encoding times for a G4 (With the code taking advantage of AltiVec) compared to a G3?

Did the article say nothing about the enclosure? Given that the specs match the more optimistic guesses here at AI, the information provided here doesn't really add anything new to the discussion.
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post #47 of 157
Didn't some of the Sahara rumors discuss an IBM vector unit that wasn't altivec? If so, maybe the new iMac won't be as deficient as we think.
post #48 of 157
[quote]Originally posted by Willoughby:
<strong>

14.1 is bigger then the current screen. So it IS an improvement. You can't expect them to put in a 15.2 inch widescreen and have the price come in at $999.

</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yeah but how would you market that when the previous iMac had a 15" screen? We know that it was only 13.8" viewable and a 14" LCD would be about a quarter inch bigger but joe consumer won't. If the rumors of the Pro LCD line moving to 17", 19" and 22" sizes is true than it would be smart if they put the 15" in there if its no longer used in the Pro line. I'd prefer a widescreen 15" display myself but maybe it would make more sense.

Rumor has it that it will no longer be called "iMac" and instead be known as "Revolution 2" or something along those lines.
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post #49 of 157
[quote]Originally posted by Bogie:
<strong>Clear it properly? Come on, you're making my head hurt ... anything that has to be "cleared properly" better be written well or its just gonna get torn up, especially if it gets posted then yanked then posted.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Oh come on. AI is a part of MacNN. Any "news site" has a chain of command that ends with the head editor. MacNN catches the legal hell when AI publishes "trade secrets". So give 'im a break if they need to "clear" something before it's on the AI site.
post #50 of 157
$899? Hell, I might even buy it.

Actually, I probably would. It would at least get some serious consideration. Now the X-Box is going to take care of most of my gaming needs.

[ 11-30-2001: Message edited by: DoctorGonzo ]</p>
post #51 of 157
[quote]Originally posted by apple_otaku:
<strong>

Yeah but how would you market that when the previous iMac had a 15" screen? We know that it was only 13.8" viewable and a 14" LCD would be about a quarter inch bigger but joe consumer won't.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Good point but the same could be said about the MHZ myth. Do you think that Joe Sixpack is going to look at an ad for the new iMac and say "but the old one had a 15 inch screen"? Hopefully he'll be so wow'd by the Superdrive, Ghz, 32meg video card and teleportation system that he'll forget about the monitor size. Oh yeah, throw in a G4 too, now thats a spicey meatball!
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post #52 of 157
Well if he is waiting for an answer from Monish we may be here a LONG time before that story gets posted again.
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post #53 of 157
... and they didn't say whom they were clearing it with or for what. A second source? Spelling mistakes? What? Clearing it with MacNN didn't even come to mind.
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post #54 of 157
[quote]Originally posted by Willoughby:
<strong>

Good point but the same could be said about the MHZ myth. Do you think that Joe Sixpack is going to look at an ad for the new iMac and say "but the old one had a 15 inch screen"? Hopefully he'll be so wow'd by the Superdrive, Ghz, 32meg video card and teleportation system that he'll forget about the monitor size. Oh yeah, throw in a G4 too, now thats a spicey meatball!</strong><hr></blockquote>

No, he'll see the 14" display and say it sucks and by a crappy PC with a 15" CRT instead. Trust me, I've seen this sort of thing many times. I'm betting (or at least hoping) it will have a 15" display if its announced.
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post #55 of 157
Matsu,

I would agree that it should be easier to REPLACE your HDD, or your sound card or video card, but to leave room for mulitple HDDs and extra slots isn't needed in an iMac.

The people who are buying BTO PCs are buying either high-end PCs (and would buy a PowerMac on our side) or are buying the cheap PCs (and would opt for the iMac on our side).

But everyone who knows anything about PCs knows that it's better to build your own system than to buy one from Gateway or worse, eMachines.

THey will buy their ocmputer, and it will be expandable. But they will probably never expand it.

The iMac is made for those who don't ever need to expand their computer. Replace bits here and there, that's fine. It's made for schools who just need it for kids to do research and homework on. For paretns who want to send movies (and hopefully soon DVDs) of their kids to the grandparents.

It's not for anyone who is really using the computer (like you and I).

Most people NEVER use their comptuers potential. They just want Morpheus to load fast, and they want their MP3s to sound good. They want to burn a CD. They want their internet connection to be fast.

They want their games to run smoothly.

They dont' care about advanced graphics acceleration unless the new game they bought needs it.

They don't care about extra HDDs cause they'll probably enver fill up 60GBs anyway.

If they do, they can buy an external one.

Andrew
post #56 of 157
Well put, amidala.
post #57 of 157
Keep in mind that my 13.3" Wallstreet powerbook screen has the exact same viewable area as an iMac's 15" Cathode ray screen. Also keep in mind Apple is aiming for a certain price point.
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post #58 of 157
The front page fiasco made it into a quite funny As The Apple Turns segment <a href="http://www.appleturns.com/" target="_blank">here.</a>

[ 11-30-2001: Message edited by: Bodhi ]</p>
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post #59 of 157
They hit the nail right on the head:

"Now, there are two likely scenarios to explain why AI might have pulled this story quickly enough to give its server whiplash. The first is that it's so close to the truth that Apple, who's been monitoring AppleInsider 24-7 for the past seven months just waiting for something like this to happen, immediately leaped in with a cease-and-desist, thus preventing the site from spoiling the surprise. The second is that, immediately after posting, AppleInsider realized just how unlikely a $1299 gigahertz iMac with a 15-inch LCD display and a SuperDrive really sounds, and decided that its comeback should probably lean slightly more towards the credible side. "
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post #60 of 157
[quote]Originally posted by apple_otaku:
<strong>They hit the nail right on the head:
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Which nail? My guess is they saw how unlikely the specs were, or perhaps they found out their source was bad.
post #61 of 157
[quote]Originally posted by imacSE:
<strong>

Which nail? My guess is they saw how unlikely the specs were, or perhaps they found out their source was bad.</strong><hr></blockquote>

That's what I'm starting to think too.
post #62 of 157
Just a note. Maybe I made it sound like I wanted room for lots of extra drives in an iMac, but I meant room for just the one HDD and optical (that come standard). They might be replaced if the need arises but not 'added to' (at least not internally)

The fact remains that the market for the machine you describe is pretty much tapped by the current iMac. People that don't care about the latest 'this or that' probably won't care to upgrade to a newer machine at this moment either. Unless you own one of the earlier (slower) models, an LCD won't be reason enough to switch. Particularly the grandma technophobes you describe will be less likely to need the features of a new machine.

If the machine is/was undergoing a complete redesign, they can/could have made a cheap machine with 'limited expandability'. One PCI slot and one AGP slot in a small closed box, where you just plug in a monitor and go, wouldn't make a headless make any harder to use. It might even make it cheaper to produce and update over it's production lifespan as feature bumps no longer require fiddling the entire Mother Board.

A PCI slot, an AGP slot, and a choice of display size hardly upsets ease of use. They merely add some functionality and choice at minimal cost to both Apple and the Consumer.

[ 11-30-2001: Message edited by: Matsu ]</p>
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post #63 of 157
I see your point, but I'm afraid I must disagree.

Apple is the proud owner of the ONLY all-in-one system, the iMac. There are PC all in ones, but they tend to die out very quickly.

If the rumors are true and the only difference between the new iMacs is the optical drive, then Apple will have made the smartest decision ever.

Apple wants to sell iMacs to those who don't want to have to think about computers. they know that they don't want to burn DVDs, so they'll get the iMac with the CD-RW/DVD, but then their grandma just wants to check email from the kids, so she'll get the base level with a CD-ROM.

But the kids want to burn DVDs, so they'll get the one with the CD-R/DVD-R. Dad just wants to watch movies, so he'll ge tthe CD-ROM/DVD one.

Then the other kid, who's a college student, wants a larger display. If he's keen enough on computers to want a larger display, then I'd venture to say he might want a second hard drive. Maybe a zip drive in his machine as well to make it more compatible to PCs...so he'll wnat the Tower.

Basically, Apple has what you're talking about. It's the base level G4.

It's just a bit faster than what you're suggesting.

Anyone who knows what a PCI slot is will not want the iMac.

And I bet Apple makes more money on the G4 towers than the imacs, so they're happy when peole are "forced" or "compelled" to buy a base level G4 rather than a top of the line iMac.

Andrew
post #64 of 157
Sounds like Apple would be following the iBook sales pitch, everything the same axcept drive and HD. How successful was the iBook? Oh yea, that's why I have one
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post #65 of 157
[quote]Originally posted by amidala:
<strong>I see your point, but I'm afraid I must disagree.

Apple is the proud owner of the ONLY all-in-one system, the iMac. There are PC all in ones, but they tend to die out very quickly.

If the rumors are true and the only difference between the new iMacs is the optical drive, then Apple will have made the smartest decision ever.

Apple wants to sell iMacs to those who don't want to have to think about computers. they know that they don't want to burn DVDs, so they'll get the iMac with the CD-RW/DVD, but then their grandma just wants to check email from the kids, so she'll get the base level with a CD-ROM.

But the kids want to burn DVDs, so they'll get the one with the CD-R/DVD-R. Dad just wants to watch movies, so he'll ge tthe CD-ROM/DVD one.

Then the other kid, who's a college student, wants a larger display. If he's keen enough on computers to want a larger display, then I'd venture to say he might want a second hard drive. Maybe a zip drive in his machine as well to make it more compatible to PCs...so he'll wnat the Tower.

Basically, Apple has what you're talking about. It's the base level G4.

It's just a bit faster than what you're suggesting.

Anyone who knows what a PCI slot is will not want the iMac.

And I bet Apple makes more money on the G4 towers than the imacs, so they're happy when peole are "forced" or "compelled" to buy a base level G4 rather than a top of the line iMac.

Andrew</strong><hr></blockquote>
Very good post amidala. I entirely agree with you, the next i mac, will be still in the concept of the all in one, and he will still be very simple, nothing to change excepting a RAM slot.
Every other thing is open, concerning the technology and the design.
post #66 of 157
[quote]14.1 is bigger then the current screen. So it IS an improvement. You can't expect them to put in a 15.2 inch widescreen and have the price come in at $999.

I think 14.1 is perfect for the market that they're going for. If its true that it will be 1Ghz, DVD and 14.1 for 999....wow <hr></blockquote>

Current screen is about 13.8" viewable. So a 14.1" screen would be 0.3" larger, meaning that it is virtually the same size as the current one.

And yes, I can expect them to put in a 15" viewable LCD and price it at $999, because Wintel makers do it all the time. Even a 15" LCD is pretty damn small....most people I know would rather have something a bit larger at home, at least 17" CRT, or 16" viewable.

For the market that Apple is after with the iMac, presumably crossovers from Wintel who are mainly home users, let's think for a moment about what they use their computers for. email, web, writing, taxes, and GAMES! Yeah, they play games. And what do you need for games? Besides a fast mobo, CPU, and GPU, you need a reletively large display!

Apple will never convert many window users with the iMac as long as it has the dinky 14" viewable display. Never. Everyone I know who's considered an iMac have all decided against it because of the display. Every ChumpUSA salesman I've spoken with has said that the display size is the #1 complaint about the iMac.

In fact the consumer opinion about the display size is so overwhelming that Apple MUST understand that the iMac's followup cannot sell well without a more robust display. It's difficult for me to believe that Apple would not enlarge the iMac's display by at least 1" for the next revision.

Anyways, if you dig small displays that's fine, but I think Apple needs to please more people so they can improve their market share. One option to please people who like smaller displays, is for Apple to put the option on the new iMac to shrink the screen image to 14" viewable. That way most people can leave it at 15" viewable or whatever, but those who want it smaller can just set it to 13" viewable. Apple could even make the option to set it to 12 or even 10 inches viewable. That way all the nimrods out there are happy with their small displays.
post #67 of 157
You know I agree with you, right? Well at least about what Apple will do, if not what they should do, or the implications of consumer reactions to the product. I contend that the market (both mac and PC) would respond better to a very slightly more PC-like iMac.

It's all academic. It won't happen, I know. But a lot more sales than anyone cares to admit are lost in the process. Perhaps the micro-tower iMac isn't the solution, but rather a cheaper low end tower. We'll see what they come up with, I guess. The current Display bundle promos basically show us that there is quite a lot of leeway on price, and that apple could afford to make all-in-one LCD iMacs that still come in cheaper then the current CRT models and that they can make 10-15% cheaper towers and displays, all. Let's see if 2002 brings not only performance but also price improvements to the desktop lines.
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post #68 of 157
...one more thing...

There is, yes, one thing that could render my expansion rantings null and void (even for the consumer lines)

The last iMac brought UMA to the mac -- a very smart concept. Perhaps the first radical redesign will bring UMA-2. Hints of giga-wire are in the air. IF this is indeed an 800-1600Mbps processor independent technology, then it becomes a truly useful expansion bus. 100-200MBps would allow the technology to move beyond fast storage, to very fast plug-n-play audio boxes, real time encoder-decoder, video in/out capture/effects processors etc... This is already possible, but double to quadruple the current firewire speeds would make a whole new range of plug in (bus powered) periphs posible.

Amidala, maybe you (and quite possibly Apple too) are right. With faster I/O most expansion quibles evaporate. You still get an idiot proof closed machine, but you get some real power expansion too.

Oh boy, I'm excited again! Lets see what happens.
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post #69 of 157
[quote]Originally posted by Bodhi:
<strong>Well if he is waiting for an answer from Monish we may be here a LONG time before that story gets posted again.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Got that right. I'm sure he's already on Christmas vacation. Maybe they'll catch him next year...
post #70 of 157
If Apple releases a new iMac with a 14.1 inch screen they will be laughed out of the consumer market.

what a joke, at least I hope it was
post #71 of 157
[quote]Originally posted by applenut:
<strong>If Apple releases a new iMac with a 14.1 inch screen they will be laughed out of the consumer market.

what a joke, at least I hope it was</strong><hr></blockquote>

But knowing Apple that's what they'll do.
post #72 of 157
NOt to f*** but do you remember las expo expectations
Ghz G4?
LCD iMac?
Hyper mega wide screen PB?

Coming expo maybe brings us an LCD iMac+Optional SuperDrive. Not G5 or iMac G4
Think Monty
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post #73 of 157
15.1 inch LCD
733 Mhz G4
133 Mhz Bus
Geforce 2 MX or Radeon graphics (32MB)
56K modem
256 MB RAM
60 GB HD
Superdrive
$1299
post #74 of 157
My guess is:-

15.2" Widescreen LCD - same as TI book to take advantage of the economy of scale
G3 or G4 either way it will have an alitvec engine and the biggest mhz than the buget will stand.
133mhz system bus.

Basic Model

40gb HD
128mb ram
cd-rw

$999

Mid Price Model

60GB
256MB Ram
Combo
$1199

Top Model

80GB
256MB Ram DOH
SuperDrive
$1599
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post #75 of 157
As long as we're speculating on the next iMac's features...
Do the current iMacs support dual monitors? If not, Apple really needs to fix that. I'm pretty sure the port's already there so they can mirror displays, so switching it to a real dual monitor setup shouldn't be hard.
post #76 of 157
guys, we forgot to clear the story with monish

it will be back. we had never been told that everything we do with the front page has to go through him... till we did something

anyway, look for it back, and some new stuff, too

I sincerely apologize to everyone for this little snafu. It makes me mad that we couldn't come back in force and not **** up.

Sorry guys- forgive us.

[ 12-01-2001: Message edited by: Jonathan ]</p>
post #77 of 157
[quote]Originally posted by Jonathan:
<strong>guys, we forgot to clear the story with monish

it will be back. we had never been told that everything we do with the front page has to go through him... till we did something

anyway, look for it back, and some new stuff, too </strong><hr></blockquote>

Don't hold your breath everyone...just ask Gorgonzola about waiting for a reply from Monish.
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post #78 of 157
Fill me in please... Who is Monish?
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post #79 of 157
If Apple uses an LCD any smaller than a 15 inch it'll be dead in the water. Why bother using a 14 inch LCD when they could just use a 14 in viewable trinitron tube?

My niece has an iMac and while the feature set has improved to the point that it is acceptable to me, the small screen simply is not. Its not only that its a 15 in monitor, its that is a small 15 in monitor and its not a flat screen like a trinitron . And do you see how much black empty space surrounds the viewable image-its ridiculous. Much more than my monitor has-which is almost nothing.

The iMac is simply unacceptable in its current form, unless Apple wants to keep a similar $499 model around strictly billed as an internet appliance. Personally I would prefer Apple use a 17 inch CRT-they are sturdier, more reliable, and more consistent than LCDs not to mention cheaper........................................... ......
post #80 of 157
Monish owns this site, and MacNN.
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