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What do you guys think about AI's imac roumors? - Page 3

post #81 of 157
[quote]Originally posted by Jonathan:
<strong>guys, we forgot to clear the story with monish

it will be back. we had never been told that everything we do with the front page has to go through him... till we did something

anyway, look for it back, and some new stuff, too

I sincerely apologize to everyone for this little snafu. It makes me mad that we couldn't come back in force and not **** up.

Sorry guys- forgive us.

[ 12-01-2001: Message edited by: Jonathan ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yeah, it'll be back up. Afert MWSF
post #82 of 157
Who cares, AI is wrong most of the time anyways. MOSR has a better record than AI!
post #83 of 157
errrr?

please don't lie.
post #84 of 157
If they come out with a G3 1Ghz 14.1 etc. I think they are still competing with celeron value pc's. If they are trying to gain market share, price point should be $700 max for the entry machine.

I think looking cool and running osx isn't enough to get converts (95% of computer owners are the proof). Apple keeps panning to mac owners instead of possible converts.

Steve listen up! Sell a machine at the same price as a winblows pc, then and only then will you be able to win people over with the argument that "we are cooler than them." IMHO
post #85 of 157
From <a href="http://www.bite.org" target="_blank">Bite.org</a>

[quote]
heh
Posted Saturday, December 1, 2001 by General Lee
Â*
AI pulled their article on flat panel iMacs. So the top news story is again "slimmer, titanium-like iBook due next week." From April.

erhaps we'll see another news story in another six months.

Dip us in sh*t and roll us in breadcrumbs! AI updated
Posted Thursday, November 29, 2001 by General Lee
Â*
That's right kids. If you've read AppleInsider between April 28th and yesterday, you've been quite bored.

No more! AI has updated. Flat panel iMac article. Maybe this was s'posed to be published back in April but they forgot about it and decided it wasn't too stale. <hr></blockquote>

[ 12-01-2001: Message edited by: Bodhi ]</p>
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post #86 of 157
[quote]Originally posted by muah:
<strong>If they come out with a G3 1Ghz 14.1 etc. I think they are still competing with celeron value pc's. If they are trying to gain market share, price point should be $700 max for the entry machine.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Spped wise they'd definately compete. The problem is foor people who don't know much about computers is that if they see the old iMacs with a 15" display then the new ones with a 14.1 they won't understand the difference. I don't think Apple could afford losing a potential customer over something like that.
post #87 of 157
MOSR hasn't made one interesting report (credibility aside) that you could not have found on forums such as these... Anyone who reads at least a rumor forum or two regularly could have written their past few reports (except the one written by their "register mole") If anything it's entertaining to read and speculate what apple will release and MOSR has failed to give me any decent entertainment... of course AI isn't any better but it's better to keep your mouth shut if you don't have anything good to say than to pull an MOSR and write crap. (sorry if i'm so critical)
post #88 of 157
[quote]Originally posted by macway:
<strong>errrr?

please don't lie.</strong><hr></blockquote>

errr... go back and look at past articles. AI is a bit of a joke when it comes to rumors other than the Workerbee leak and the rare leak the night before a show.
post #89 of 157
Jon - that was a very respectable post as far as why it was taken down. Just wanted to reinforce that.
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post #90 of 157
[quote]Originally posted by applenut:
<strong>15.1 inch LCD
733 Mhz G4
133 Mhz Bus
Geforce 2 MX or Radeon graphics (32MB)
56K modem
256 MB RAM
60 GB HD
Superdrive
$1299</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yeah right.

That same machine right now costs...$2500, and the drive has to be external. And yo ualso get it in a tower, not an imac, and the monitor is External.

Andrew
post #91 of 157
[quote]Originally posted by amidala:
<strong>

Yeah right.

That same machine right now costs...$2500, and the drive has to be external. And yo ualso get it in a tower, not an imac, and the monitor is External.

Andrew</strong><hr></blockquote>

1.) that mac does not cost 2500 right now. Apple would likely charge that much but it doesn't cost that much.

15 inch LCD- 200-300 dollars
733 Mhz G4- 150-200 dollars I would imagine
256 MB RAM- 20 dollars
60 GB HD- 80 dollars
Motherboard with nVidia graphics- 75 dollars
Superdrive- 300-350 dollars
$at the lowend of the price range that would cost $825 high end estimate $1025

now my estimate means pretty much next to nothing but you get an idea that it is very possible for a 1299 and definitely possible for a 1499 machine
post #92 of 157
[quote]1.) that mac does not cost 2500 right now. Apple would likely charge that much but it doesn't cost that much.<hr></blockquote>


Current G4 tower pricing:

[quote]Summary
• 733MHz PowerPC G4
• 256MB SDRAM - 1 DIMM
• 60GB Ultra ATA drive
• Apple Studio Display (15" flat panel)
• Combo (DVD/CD-RW)
• NVIDIA GeForce2 MX - 32MB SDRAM
• 56K internal modem
• Apple Pro Keyboard - U.S. English
• Mac OS - U.S. English
• Gigabit Ethernet
• Two USB ports
• Two FireWire ports
• Apple Pro Mouse


Subtotal $2,648.00<hr></blockquote>

And that is without the superdrive, which would be 250$ more if available, making the total a whopping 2898$

so even if you are correct and Apple can build it for about 100$ total, they would not sell it at that price because it would be too much of a price cut way to quickly. they like to milk things, so yesterday's 2900$ powermac will not be tomorrows 1300$ imac.

[ 12-02-2001: Message edited by: tl ]</p>
post #93 of 157
Well, they did cut the 733 G4 from 3500 to 1500 in one swipe, but they also cut the amount of RAM and the drive and other stuff too.

Andrew
post #94 of 157
[quote] And that is without the superdrive, which would be 250$ more if available, making the total a whopping 2898$

so even if you are correct and Apple can build it for about 100$ total, they would not sell it at that price because it would be too much of a price cut way to quickly. they like to milk things, so yesterday's 2900$ powermac will not be tomorrows 1300$ imac.<hr></blockquote>
Except for one little thing... those prices were set in July when the quicksilver was introduced. that and don't forget about the g5. g4's outta be cheap with its intro.
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post #95 of 157
[quote]Originally posted by discstickers:
<strong>
Except for one little thing... those prices were set in July when the quicksilver was introduced. that and don't forget about the g5. g4's outta be cheap with its intro. </strong><hr></blockquote>

Yeah, maybe the processor but why would everything else's price decrease so much?
post #96 of 157
I think the whole point of Apollo is that it becomes a cheaper and more versatile chip by virtue of an improvement in the fab process. A smaller more modern fab means not only cooler, lower power chips, but also more chips per silicon wafer. Ideally the chips ought to both perform better and have better yields. It may be possible to source G4's to Macs in general at a cheaper cost than before because they'll be using a lot more of them.
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post #97 of 157
[quote]Originally posted by tl:
<strong>

And that is without the superdrive, which would be 250$ more if available, making the total a whopping 2898$

so even if you are correct and Apple can build it for about 100$ total, they would not sell it at that price because it would be too much of a price cut way to quickly. they like to milk things, so yesterday's 2900$ powermac will not be tomorrows 1300$ imac.

[ 12-02-2001: Message edited by: tl ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

you can't base anything on the PowerMac's price. it is inflated way too much has more high end things, etc..

look at my reasoning for the price and then tell me its not possible. do you agree with the price I listed. if so then what's your point?
post #98 of 157
I agree with applenut. No reason they could not do it for 1299 or 1499.

Does anyone know what Apple's average profit margin is? Maybe this way we can work it out a little bit better.
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post #99 of 157
[quote] The problem is foor people who don't know much about computers is that if they see the old iMacs with a 15" display then the new ones with a 14.1 they won't understand the difference. <hr></blockquote>

Oh please....all a person has to do is look at a 15" LCD and they can see that it's bigger than the current iMac's viewable area.
post #100 of 157
[quote]Originally posted by TigerWoods99:
<strong>Does anyone know what Apple's average profit margin is? Maybe this way we can work it out a little bit better.</strong><hr></blockquote>

From what applenut says, Apple's profit margin is 30%.
post #101 of 157
[quote]it will be back. we had never been told that everything we do with the front page has to go through him... till we did something <hr></blockquote>

Actually, this is not true. I had explained before (not to you, but to Nick, and more than once) that the first several articles had to be cleared. The article will be back up this week; it's really not a very interesting story regarding the whole pulling thing.

As for Bite.org, my suggestion would be to ignore them. They're just a bunch of amateurs scrambling for traffic by keeping a log of people's mistakes.

And regarding the validity of the article, we always check them to the best of our ability, but as AI veterans know, the rumors are always wrong just as often as they're right.

Check back on the main page in a few days; it'll be back soon.
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post #102 of 157
[quote]Originally posted by TigerWoods99:
<strong>I agree with applenut. No reason they could not do it for 1299 or 1499.

Does anyone know what Apple's average profit margin is? Maybe this way we can work it out a little bit better.</strong><hr></blockquote>

they can especially do it with the specs I listed if they go combo drive instead of superdrive.

the superdrive may unfortunately just expand t all PowerMacs but I doubt Apple will not have at least one imac with one.

Apple's profit margins are an overage of 25-33 percent depending on the product I believe
post #103 of 157
A nice iMac for MWSF would be this:
  • 1.0 Ghz G3
  • 14.x or 15.x LCD
  • 32MB GeForce 2mx / or Ti-200 variant
  • Combo Drive (CD-RW/DVD)
  • 133Mhz Bus
  • all the other usual trimmings
  • Total = $1,499 or less

We would finally have an affordable 'gamer's' Mac.

I don't think it is too much to ask. It's a perfectly reasonable product to expect from Apple. Maybe they don't have the 1Ghz G3 yet, but we can hope IBM has it ready then.

I'd buy that in a blink-of-an-eye.

Peace. :cool:

[ 12-02-2001: Message edited by: NeoMac ]</p>
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post #104 of 157
Lets assume that your costs are correct. You will note that Apple make an AVERAGE margin of over 30% on sales, add to that a distributor profit and reseller profit and based on your costs the iMac should hit the streets at $1599-$1799.

Hmm.
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post #105 of 157
[quote]Originally posted by JW Pepper:
<strong>Lets assume that your costs are correct. You will note that Apple make an AVERAGE margin of over 30% on sales, add to that a distributor profit and reseller profit and based on your costs the iMac should hit the streets at $1599-$1799.

Hmm.</strong><hr></blockquote>

that average is due to the huge margin on the pro products. no that the consumer products.

you don't think a PowerMac G4/DP 800 really costs 3499 in its current congfig do you? cost for that is 2699 I believe. and that was on its release!

Hmm..

[ 12-02-2001: Message edited by: applenut ]</p>
post #106 of 157
No excuse why Apple couldn't put a combo drive in.

Those G3 specs would be awesome. If it looked sweet I'd have to consider. 1 GHz Sahara would be nice, especially for upgrade cards.
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post #107 of 157
We are currently reworking the article in light of new information that we have recieved. sit tight.
post #108 of 157
Nice.

Applenut, I think your guesses are a little off. I don't think a 60GB drive costs $80. Nor do I believe Apple can manufacture a motherboard for $75. Hell, the lowest priced PC motherboards are barely $75. And you forgot a case for the thing, plus keyboard, mouse, cables, manuals, speakers, etc. The little things. My estimate:

Case: $130. We all know Apple can go way overboard with using the fanciest bullet proof plastic, commercial grade titanium, etc. Plus, this is pretty much the one thing Apple doesn't skimp on.

CPU: $120. This is really optimistic here...a new 1GHz G3 chip is probably more like $200, but whatever.

Memory: $30. 256MB RAM is cheap. Bought in bulk, even cheaper.

Motherboard: $140. Apple's motherboards include stuff like built in ethernet, sound, Firewire, etc. And they can't use off the shelf stuff for the masses here... a Mac's a Mac!

Video: $70. I'm guessing a 32MB Radeon VE would work here.

Speakers: $25. Please don't tell me those tinny speakers cost more.

HD: $80. For a 40GB Drive.

Display: $300. Assuming Apple has a great deal with Samsung.

Optical Drive: $40. Just a plain old DVD reader here. $110 for a combo.

Keyboard, Mouse, Apple stickers, etc: $20.

Wow, I surpised myself here. $955. I guess you were right Applenut.

So I think we could have a linup as so:

El Cheapo Depot:
700MHz G3 750CXe
100MHz Bus
128MB RAM
20GB 5400RPM HD
Rage 128 Ultra 16MB
CD-ROM
15.1" LCD
A uh, Case
Some Apple Stickers

Nice, Nice:
867MHz Sahara G3
133MHz Bus
256MB RAM
40GB 5400RPM HD
Radeon VE 32MB
DVD ROM (CDRW, add $100)
15.1" LCD
A case
More Apple stickers

Sweetness:

1GHz! Yes, the big 1GHz!
256MB RAM
60GB 5400RPM HD
Combo Drive
Radeon VE 32MB
15.1" LCD
A Case
Enough Apple Stickers to coat your windshield!

$799, $999, $1299.

Add the Apple annoyance factor and...

$999, $1299, and $1499.

Not bad!

[ 12-02-2001: Message edited by: MacAddict ]

[ 12-02-2001: Message edited by: MacAddict ]

[ 12-02-2001: Message edited by: MacAddict ]</p>
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post #109 of 157
see

now if Apple could take a margin hit on the high end model and slip in a superdrive it would be perfect
post #110 of 157
But of course Apple would never do that.
post #111 of 157
[quote]Originally posted by lsderrick:
<strong>here's a link to a previous posting

<a href="http://www.lowendmac.com/rumormill/01/0709.html" target="_blank">http://www.lowendmac.com/rumormill/01/0709.html</a>

derrick</strong><hr></blockquote>

In this article, it talked about a square iMac. Makes sense, except it would probably be 15" x 15" x 3". Think of the possible marketing:

"It's hip to be square" :cool:

Additionally, we don't know for sure if this is an iMac or not. Another post said that it had a "secret code name" which was known only to those close to the project. Could Apple be tring to introduce another product in between the current iMac and the G4? <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />

Screen size seems too small to market it above an iMac. Maybe Apple is going to make the iMac scrictly a low-end computer for the education market or a network machine like it was originally supposed to be. I just don't see how they could have a base-line $1000 machine and expect schools to buy them in bulk.

Food for thought.

-THSPottsie

Friend : (n) - Person who asks you how you are doing and then sticks around for the answer.

[ 12-02-2001: Message edited by: thspottsie ]</p>
post #112 of 157
[quote]Originally posted by Jonathan:
<strong>We are currently reworking the article in light of new information that we have recieved. sit tight.</strong><hr></blockquote>

In other words: Monish is nowhere to be found and has not replied to anyone who has sent him an email regarding this.

&lt;Not directed at you Jonathan, I just have a sore spot for Monish and how he conducts himself&gt;
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post #113 of 157
[quote]Originally posted by Bodhi:
<strong>

In other words: Monish is nowhere to be found and has not replied to anyone who has sent him an email regarding this.

&lt;Not directed at you Jonathan, I just have a sore spot for Monish and how he conducts himself&gt;</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yeah, that sounds like good old Monish.
post #114 of 157
As to that nice, hella cheap iMac. Still not going to happen.

You're first of all assuming that the G5 will be out.

If the G5 is out, and they upgraded the iMac to the G4, then they wouldn't use the G3, which they will be using, since IBM continues to build and make faster ones, even though Apple is the largest user of them.

Andrew
post #115 of 157
[quote]Originally posted by amidala:
<strong>As to that nice, hella cheap iMac. Still not going to happen.

You're first of all assuming that the G5 will be out.

If the G5 is out, and they upgraded the iMac to the G4, then they wouldn't use the G3, which they will be using, since IBM continues to build and make faster ones, even though Apple is the largest user of them.

Andrew</strong><hr></blockquote>

hmmm....

1GHz G3

or

G4 which would cost more, and have a slower clock rate than the G3 (probably 800MHz because the current iMac models top out at 700MHz). The G4 would have more processing power along with a Velocity Engie, but what consumer needs the processing power of a G4 every single day?

Using a G3 in the new iMac looks to be one way Apple can cut the cost of the machine and get away with it.

But then you throw OS X into the picture, and it's looking more like the G4.

Anyone got a quarter? Heads G3, tails G4. Best two out of three.

- THSPottsie

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[ 12-02-2001: Message edited by: thspottsie ]</p>
post #116 of 157
[quote]Originally posted by Bodhi:
<strong>In other words: Monish is nowhere to be found and has not replied to anyone who has sent him an email regarding this.

&lt;Not directed at you Jonathan, I just have a sore spot for Monish and how he conducts himself&gt;</strong><hr></blockquote>

Actually, this is amusingly false. The article has to be cleared by no one but myself, and I haven't cleared it yet, because the requisite research was not put into the article and it needed to be reworked.

Monish has become far more accessible in recent months, and I'd personally appreciate it if you didn't continue to rampantly spread misinformation. I communicate with Monish and we discuss the status of the whole network on a daily basis, so this entire rumor that you seem to be constantly resurrecting that he's "nowhere to be found" is complete -- for the lack of a better word -- BS.

[edit: typo]

[ 12-02-2001: Message edited by: gorgonzola ]</p>
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post #117 of 157
That's heavily ironic Gorgonzola.

Of course I have no idea about the day-to-day workings of MacNN and AppleInsider. What I was commenting about was Monish's "repuation", you my friend were quite outspoken about the frustrations of dealing with Mr. Monish. Quite a few posts over at the Lounge by you expressing frustration at reaching Monish. If things are better with his communication and accessibility issues than that is great for you guys (Mods and Admin's) who were the people Monish tended to ignore in the past, which made your job quite frustrating. You as much as anyone else here who has been around quite a while know where my posts in this thread were coming from...for you to say I am resurrecting a rumor is quite false, just going based on past experiences with Monish.

I for one am greatly saddened by the aggressive and demeaning tone you have taken with me Gorgonzola. Who offered his time and contacts to try and ressurrect AI when it was down? Who was trying to get that girl at Reprahduce to get the info off of the Cube to you? I think you know me better than to post something like that aimed at me.

Again, if things are better than good for you. Being a Mod myself at another board the frustration that Monish caused you and the other Mods at MacNN was the only reason behind my comments. Perhaps you shouldn't forget so easily when someone makes a job you do for free so difficult at times.

Posted by Gorgonzola on August 10th 2001 at 8:44am at BadFlamingo:

[quote]What Bodhi said is indeed true, but getting AI back online permanently and in full force would take no more than a week if Monish put some elbow grease into it, which he clearly is not doing. Â*Lest you think that his powers of procrastination are concentrated fully and mercilessly on AppleInsider alone, note that:
(1) Our new publishing system is nowhere to be found.
(2) Parts of the MacNN Network that are now obsolete have not been removed or cleaned up. Â*games.macnn.com is still here even though it's been discontinued.
(3) Reviews.macnn.com is also extremely old. Â*We've in fact *published some new reviews* (on Snapz Pro X, for one), but I don't see that on reviews.macnn.com, do you?
(4) The new comments system is the most minimal possible incarnation of what we've been discussing.
(5) Monish has still not paid for the t-shirts that we ordered from a MacNN forum member for MWNY, despite repeated badgering from both myself and said member.
(6) The successor to our forum server has not arrived despite its scheduled installation about a month and a half ago, and as a result, there's no place to put AI.
These are just the things I remember off the top of my head. Â*Believe me, it's not a whole lot easier to get in touch with Monish even if you *do* work with him.
I suggest you work on building up your community here. Â*I used to read AppleInsider myself, and try as I might to resurrect it, there are some things that Monish has to do, and those things have just not been done.
The information regarding MacNN or Monish that I've shared with you here is strictly off-forum; I hope you understand.
HTH,
-gorgonzola.\t<hr></blockquote>

Or Eskimo's post:

[quote]Here's my take on the whole thing. Â*Monish sucks. Â*Short and sweet. Â*During the short time that AI came back up before this last great blackout myself and the other moderators and administrators talked things over a bit. Â*We asked Monish for control over the AI server and offered to do the maintanance that was required to keep it running even if it meant hosting it ourselves. Â*We even considered building our own server to host the forums and such. Â*We contacted Mr. Scates about helping us out with some of the redesign work if we got control, which he kindly offered. Â*We also received support from another member of AI that is a co-owner of a hosting company and offered us a 50% discount off normal hosting fees at his company. Â*Many more members told us they were willing to donate some money to the cause. Â*I think we really could have done it and I was very impressed by the level of support from the members.
Now none of us really wanted the baggage time wise and legally of running the AI frontpage. Â*We are engineers, researchers, artists and such, not entrepreneurs. Â*Monish basically never answered our repeated inquiries into the matter. Â*We were stopped by his apathy on the subject which for a business leader I found pathetic. Â*The only response I ever got from him was that if we had a guy that would give us discounted hosting then he should offer MacNN cheap hosting and that we could build a server and send it to him. Â*What a f**cking joke! Â*
There is no way in hell I would ever offer money to anything that MacNN/Monish is in control of. Â*It's a waste of your money. Â*If he wants to be inept and run AI into the ground he's done a pretty good job enough of that already. Â*I'm not going to spend money to see him piss that away too. Â*Gorgonzola is a good guy and I know he was honestly trying to help us out but I feel he was as much held back as all the rest of us by the powers that be. Â*He offered to give us control of the new AI server if they ever got it up. Â*Now tell me what kind of business orders a new server and then allows it not to be delivered for 2-3 months? Â*Any real business worth its salt would be screaming down the neck of a vendor that screwed them like that and take their business elswhere. Â*So either Monish is sitting around on his ass and there never was a real server ordered, or he is being an idiot and should cancel the freaking order, and go to a vendor that will give him a real computer. Â*Hell go to fricking Dell, they will have it on your doorstep by the end of the next business day if you want.
Excuse my candor on the issue... Stuff like this just really bothers me. Â*We had a nice community going at AI until a few people screwed it up for all of us.\t<hr></blockquote>


Rumor? I think not Gorgonzola. Don't let the title go to your head. Don't forget the pain some has caused in the past just because they are nice now.

Link: <a href="http://www.xsorbit.com/users/flamingo/index.cgi?board=General_Discussion&action=display& num=995952432&start=45" target="_blank">Bad Flamingo thread</a>

Eskimo post: <a href="http://www.xsorbit.com/users/flamingo/index.cgi?board=General_Discussion&action=display& num=1001916395" target="_blank">BadFlamingo - Eskimo</a>

Now...about that Flat Panel iMac!



[ 12-03-2001: Message edited by: Bodhi ]</p>
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post #118 of 157
Yes, about that flat panel iMac. No offense guys, but Monish is not future hardware. Even if the server we're now running on seemed just as implausible for a while.

EmAn wrote:

[quote]From what applenut says, Apple's profit margin is 30%.<hr></blockquote>

Gross profit is probably 20% - 35%. The entry-level iMac has a thin profit margin, but Apple doesn't sell many of those. They make a killing on the high end Power Macs and PowerBooks.
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post #119 of 157
Apple's biggest challenge is going to be making the iMac better or a lot cheaper than the iBook.

Right now iBook costs $1699 with a great set of features. A bigger screen with the same resolution, a faster processor and video card might be enough but only if they can sell it for $200 less, at least. I'd still go for the laptop for $200 extra.

Now if they stick a PB screen or (even better) a 1280x1024 15.1" 4:3 LCD, Geforce 3 or Radeon card, and a superdrive for $1499 I'd be in line for one RIGHT AWAY!

And about the G3/G4 thing, As long as my programs (photoshop, dreamweaver, flash, etc) run smoothly and I can burn a DVD without aging too much, I really don't care what chip's in there.
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You're going sane in a crazy world!
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post #120 of 157
[quote]1280x1024 15.1" 4:3 LCD<hr></blockquote>

Do you want 1280 x 1024 or 4:3? 1280 x 1024 is a 5:4 ratio (5*256 x 4*256). A 4:3 ratio would come out to 1280 x 960 (4*320 x 3*320).
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"...within intervention's distance of the embassy." - CvB

Original music:
The Mayflies - Black earth Americana. Now on iTMS!
Becca Sutlive - Iowa Fried Rock 'n Roll - now on iTMS!
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