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Obama's "Appalachia Problem" - Page 3

post #81 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

He's going to lose. Big.

Yay!

And then we will have two years three months of McCain, and then one year nine months of McCain's VP during a period in which the economic reality of the rise of the second world slows the growth and improvement of the homeland further ... That'll be great for the republicans.
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post #82 of 163
Quote:
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.

- George Carlin
post #83 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Dude, you are totally right. That whole "bitter" thing was just an insanely retarded meme I am pushing. No one in the media has written about it, responded to it, discussed it or given it any time. It is just me out there pushing it against the world which has ignored it.


oohhh ooohhh, is this part where you use the media's obsession with pushing pointless drivel with the easiest angle for some sort of supposed scandal in a lazy quest for ratings and to fill the 24 hour news cycle - "bittergate" in this instance - proof that it must be an incredibly big deal because if the media - being so increibally liberally biased - is talking about it non-stop it must be a big deal if LIBERAL media is actually forced to acknowledge it?

I love that part. That's one sweet self-fulfilling prophecy.
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post #84 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

I don't agree with you about it being America's problem. Most of America has moved on, and you can't change the opinions of people who don't want their opinions changed. I don't consider myself a cheerleader or supporter for Obama, but that's only because of his party affiliation and his proposed policies.

You didn't comprehend what I wrote. I didn't say it was Obama's America problem, implying that the whole of America is racist, I said it was America's Appalachian problem.

The Appalachian region is racist. That's not just bad for Obama. It's bad for America.
post #85 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

You didn't comprehend what I wrote. I didn't say it was Obama's America problem, implying that the whole of America is racist, I said it was America's Appalachian problem.

The Appalachian region is racist. That's not just bad for Obama. It's bad for America.

Nah. The rest of America doesn't care.

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post #86 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flounder View Post

oohhh ooohhh, is this part where you use the media's obsession with pushing pointless drivel with the easiest angle for some sort of supposed scandal in a lazy quest for ratings and to fill the 24 hour news cycle - "bittergate" in this instance - proof that it must be an incredibly big deal because if the media - being so increibally liberally biased - is talking about it non-stop it must be a big deal if LIBERAL media is actually forced to acknowledge it?

I love that part. That's one sweet self-fulfilling prophecy.

My ability to comprehend that fell apart around the sixth fragment or thereabouts.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #87 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

My ability to comprehend that fell apart around the sixth fragment or thereabouts.

True, but then again, in this thread you did knock someone whose middle name is "erudition."

Addabox Erudition Jones.

..or something like that.
post #88 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell View Post

SDW:

1. Obama is currently leading McCain by around 5 points in Pennsylvania, so the fact that lots of people are saying they won't vote for him doesn't seem to be doing damage to him there.

5 points is almost within the margin of error, and at a time when McCain isn't even running against him exactly. Also, the undecideds are high....as much as 12% of the responses. I don't think those will break for Obama at all.

Quote:

2. My understanding is that the number of people in this Democratic primary saying "I won't vote for the other candidate if he becomes the nominee" is actually relatively low compared to previous elections. I'd also be interested in seeing how many Republican primary voters have said they wouldn't vote for McCain. My guess is that's it's higher than the number saying they won't vote for Obama.

I don't have that information and I'm not sure it's available. The other thing to keep in mind is the Republican opponent this year is more of a moderate...someone that will likely do far better than Bush is some of the purple states. I know that in speaking to people to date, I feel good about McCain's chances. In comparison, I was pretty sure Bush would lose PA in 2004. I realize that's entirely anecdotal and mostly subjective, but realize that the Southeastern PA burbs are really where PA is decided. I'm not hearing enthusiasm for Obama from lifelong democrats (I work in a public school, after all). Most of the people speak to sort have this "WTF" attitude about Obama." Anywho...just some background.
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post #89 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

... doesn't amount to a hill of beans. I don't engage in wishful thinking.

So you're dismissing all of that in wholesale fashion? That's surprising, even from you. It's almost a jimmacian response.

The fact is Obama has some serious problems among working class, white Democrats. And they are going to matter come November. That's going to be one big ass hill of beans.
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post #90 of 163
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

5 points is almost within the margin of error, and at a time when McCain isn't even running against him exactly. Also, the undecideds are high....as much as 12% of the responses. I don't think those will break for Obama at all.



I don't have that information and I'm not sure it's available. The other thing to keep in mind is the Republican opponent this year is more of a moderate...someone that will likely do far better than Bush is some of the purple states. I know that in speaking to people to date, I feel good about McCain's chances. In comparison, I was pretty sure Bush would lose PA in 2004. I realize that's entirely anecdotal and mostly subjective, but realize that the Southeastern PA burbs are really where PA is decided. I'm not hearing enthusiasm for Obama from lifelong democrats (I work in a public school, after all). Most of the people speak to sort have this "WTF" attitude about Obama." Anywho...just some background.

Do you find that these people you talk to are "soft racists"?
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post #91 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Nah. The rest of America doesn't care.

Except when it affects or threatens to affect an election.
post #92 of 163
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Except when it affects or threatens to affect an election.

Well, I think it's also important to point out that "the rest" most likely means "white folks."
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post #93 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by midwinter View Post

Do you find that these people you talk to are "soft racists"?

Honestly, not at all. Just by way of example...I was sitting at lunch the other day talking to some staff. Several of them are just traditional " public education liberals" if you will. They tend to speak about quality of outcome from a socioeconomic standpoint. They support organized labor and are basically anti-war, pro-social programs, etc. The ones I spoke to didn't like Obama at all. The attitude was "Man, what is with this guy? " Most of it stemmed from the Rev. Wright thing and the comments about Kennedy's accent. Then there was the San Francisco God 'n Guns speech---that came up too. Their comments are amazingly reflective of what we see in the polls. The message of Change and Hope are well received---but pepple have real concerns about Obama's associations and judgement.
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post #94 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

So you're dismissing all of that in wholesale fashion? That's surprising, even from you. It's almost a jimmacian response.

The fact is Obama has some serious problems among working class, white Democrats. And they are going to matter come November. That's going to be one big ass hill of beans.

[CENTER]
Michigan Polls


Florida Polls[/CENTER]

Wow, look at that, based on those two states alone, HRC should have clobbered BHO for the Democratic nomination.

[CENTER][/CENTER]

Yup, HRC five months ago (late December) should have clobbered BHO, but that didn't happen, did it?

Jiminy Cricket, what happened? Did the voters change their minds by any chance? D'oh, I think so.

We don't know for certain, if BHO will even be the Democratic nominee, although IMHO it's a foregone conclusion.

Come back on June 10th, by which time the Democratic nominee should all but be decided.

Or come back after both parties nominees have selected their VP candidates.

Or come back after the parties have both had their respective conventions.

What will the economy do between now and then? $5/gallon gas prices? The U.S. automakers (e. g. Ford) are already feeling the pinch of higher gas prices. These high gas prices will not help the economy between now and then, that's a lock.

What will be the situation on the ground in Iraq during the next five+ months?

Heck, the D's best strategy may be to expose McCain's well known hot headiness (BTW he must be channeling Cheney ), as Obama elicited yesterday. If that wasn't the classic definition of an ad hominem on McCain's part, I don't know what is.

The argument you really are trying to make, is an argument for HRC getting the Democratic nomination. That's what you people have really wanted all along, it's by now instinctual with you people, because HRC will energize your base more than McCain will.

And at this point in time, you are indeed engaging in wishful thinking.
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post #95 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Honestly, not at all. Just by way of example...I was sitting at lunch the other day talking to some staff. Several of them are just traditional " public education liberals" if you will. They tend to speak about quality of outcome from a socioeconomic standpoint. They support organized labor and are basically anti-war, pro-social programs, etc. The ones I spoke to didn't like Obama at all. The attitude was "Man, what is with this guy? " Most of it stemmed from the Rev. Wright thing and the comments about Kennedy's accent. Then there was the San Francisco God 'n Guns speech---that came up too. Their comments are amazingly reflective of what we see in the polls. The message of Change and Hope are well received---but pepple have real concerns about Obama's associations and judgement.

Projecting Much?
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post #96 of 163
franksargent, you don't even have to talk about changing minds. Obama is currently ahead of McCain in the polls, and he's ahead of McCain by a greater margin than Clinton is ahead of McCain. Things can and will change, to be sure, but if the suggestion is that currently people don't like Obama, which I think is what SDW is saying, the evidence doesn't support even that.
post #97 of 163
Barack Obama is probably the most mild-mannered politician running for President in a very long time.

And we're supposed to believe that people are sitting around the lunch room table saying "what's up with that guy? His Christian pastor is cwaaaaazzzzy! I hear he's really a Muslim."

Either the story is false and designed to support an ideology or it's a sad statement about our "elitist educators".

Also, I love the double-standard going around here. In one breath all we hear from the right is, "Whaaa, because of Obama we can't talk about race in politics or we're called race baiters, whaaa!" And then when whites in a certain region known for racial intolerance OVERWHELMINGLY votes against Obama -- and race is brought into the discussion -- the right then pivots 180 and says, "whaaa, not all white people who voted against Obama are racist, how dare you even bring it up, whaaaa!"

So the lesson I've learned from this comedic string of events is thus: Discussion of race in American politics must be allowed if we're discussion a black person. Discussion of race in American politics cannot be discussed if it pertains to white voting patterns.

Republicans seem to want to "keep it real" except when the "reality" doesn't look so hot for their constituency.
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post #98 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

And we're supposed to believe that people are sitting around the lunch room table saying "what's up with that guy? His Christian pastor is cwaaaaazzzzy! I hear he's really a Muslim."

Either the story is false and designed to support an ideology or it's a sad statement about our "elitist educators".

No, I totally believe it. They get their "news" from television or talk radio and this is what they get. And I am stating that for both sides Democrats and Republican. If their trusted source for information is the MSM.
post #99 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell View Post

franksargent, you don't even have to talk about changing minds. Obama is currently ahead of McCain in the polls, and he's ahead of McCain by a greater margin than Clinton is ahead of McCain. Things can and will change, to be sure, but if the suggestion is that currently people don't like Obama, which I think is what SDW is saying, the evidence doesn't support even that.

I believe Obama will win. But he's BARELY win (reasons stated below). This will be an interesting election because the demographics are going to shift and change dramatically. States that used to be in play won't be. States that Democrats would never consider competitive will be.

However (I've said it here before), Republicans are like the Yankee's in spring. They suck ass. But every season they manage to make it to championship.

This year, though, it doesn't look like Guns, God, and Gays will be strategy. Democrats have pretty much conceded the gun battle. The NRA won and Dems haven't campaigned on gun reform in a very long time (at least on a national level). God (or at least the Christian variant) has been sidelined because Hagee and the other nuts have inoculated Obama against his nutty pastor. After California approved of gay marriage the uproar has been...welll...nearly silent.

This year will be the year of race. The media will pound this meme for the next six months,

"IS AMERICA READY FOR A BLACK PRESIDENT?"

"DOES OBAMA HAVE A WHITE VOTER PROBLEM?"

"IS OBAMA BLACK ENOUGH?"

"IS OBAMA TOO BLACK?"

"WAS IT WISE FOR OBAMA TO ADMIT HE LISTENS TO J.Z.?"

"SHOULD OBAMA EAT CHICKEN IN FRONT OF CAMERAS?"

"IF OBAMA WINS WHAT WILL WHITE'S LOSE?"

"ARE WHITE'S THREATENED OF A BLACK UPRISING?"

If none of that works, they can always go back to their regular bag of tricks and pull GOD back out. Only this will the Muslim variant. In fact, a viral email campaign has already been started to spread rumors that "Obama is actually, privately, a...shhh...a Muslim. Please forward this email to 20 of your closest friends."

All of the above added up and repeated ad nauseam over the next six months is why Obama will have a tough time winning this election. I think he'll pull it off. And he'll do it for only one reason...people are sick to death of George Bush and Obama and DNC will will make a good case for why McCain is Bush's third term.

(As a side note: I'm very proud of Dean and the DNC successfully forcing McCain to fire over half of his campaign's brain trust. Brilliant move. Nothing keeps a candidate on the defensive then a staff with a revolving door. Keep hiring those lobbyists Mr. Straight Shooter! This notion of beating Republicans at their own game feels...kinda nice.)
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post #100 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Except when it affects or threatens to affect an election.

There are no winners this election. None.

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post #101 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

There are no winners this election. None.

[CENTER][/CENTER]
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post #102 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardeeharhar View Post

Projecting Much?

These were there comments and attitudes. I didn't solicit them. I've paraphrased of course, but not in a way that would change their meaning.
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post #103 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell View Post

franksargent, you don't even have to talk about changing minds. Obama is currently ahead of McCain in the polls, and he's ahead of McCain by a greater margin than Clinton is ahead of McCain. Things can and will change, to be sure, but if the suggestion is that currently people don't like Obama, which I think is what SDW is saying, the evidence doesn't support even that.

Then you frankly cannot read or will not read exit polls. I'm not going to do it for you.
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post #104 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

I believe Obama will win. But he's BARELY win (reasons stated below). This will be an interesting election because the demographics are going to shift and change dramatically. States that used to be in play won't be. States that Democrats would never consider competitive will be.

However (I've said it here before), Republicans are like the Yankee's in spring. They suck ass. But every season they manage to make it to championship.

This year, though, it doesn't look like Guns, God, and Gays will be strategy. Democrats have pretty much conceded the gun battle. The NRA won and Dems haven't campaigned on gun reform in a very long time (at least on a national level). God (or at least the Christian variant) has been sidelined because Hagee and the other nuts have inoculated Obama against his nutty pastor. After California approved of gay marriage the uproar has been...welll...nearly silent.

That's deluded. It truly is wishful thinking. Hagee doesn't approach the level of damage Wright has done. You're stating what you think SHOULD matter to people, not what actually does.

Quote:


This year will be the year of race. The media will pound this meme for the next six months,

"IS AMERICA READY FOR A BLACK PRESIDENT?"

Haven't heard much about it.

Quote:

"DOES OBAMA HAVE A WHITE VOTER PROBLEM?"

He does, but since the media is in the tank for him, it will be presented as "racists won't vote for Obama!"

Quote:

"IS OBAMA BLACK ENOUGH?"

That went away about a year ago.

Quote:

"IS OBAMA TOO BLACK?"

That was never a problem until Pastor Wright came up.

Quote:

"WAS IT WISE FOR OBAMA TO ADMIT HE LISTENS TO J.Z.?"



Quote:

"SHOULD OBAMA EAT CHICKEN IN FRONT OF CAMERAS?"



"IF OBAMA WINS WHAT WILL WHITE'S LOSE?"[/quote]

Now you're getting nutty.

Quote:

"ARE WHITE'S THREATENED OF A BLACK UPRISING?"

Let me know when you see that happen.

Quote:

If none of that works, they can always go back to their regular bag of tricks and pull GOD back out. Only this will the Muslim variant. In fact, a viral email campaign has already been started to spread rumors that "Obama is actually, privately, a...shhh...a Muslim. Please forward this email to 20 of your closest friends."

Whatever. Who started this campaign?

Quote:

All of the above added up and repeated ad nauseam over the next six months is why Obama will have a tough time winning this election. I think he'll pull it off. And he'll do it for only one reason...people are sick to death of George Bush and Obama and DNC will will make a good case for why McCain is Bush's third term.

Hmm...or maybe Obama will actually have to defend himself on the issues. Maybe the GOP will clobber him on his inexperience, his ridiculous Iran/NK/Cuba positions, his tax and spend liberalism, his crazy associations with known terrorists and racists? Nah...it will all just be bullshit. Now McCain...he's too old, of course.

Quote:

(As a side note: I'm very proud of Dean and the DNC successfully forcing McCain to fire over half of his campaign's brain trust. Brilliant move. Nothing keeps a candidate on the defensive then a staff with a revolving door. Keep hiring those lobbyists Mr. Straight Shooter! This notion of beating Republicans at their own game feels...kinda nice.)

Oh boy. Someone doesn't know too much about McCain's opponent.

One more thing:

"Change!"
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post #105 of 163
This...Northgate, this is the bullshit that will be repeated more than a bad burrito from Taco Bell...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Hmm...or maybe Obama will actually have to defend himself on the issues. Maybe the GOP will clobber him on his inexperience, his ridiculous Iran/NK/Cuba positions, his tax and spend liberalism, his crazy associations with known terrorists and racists? Nah...it will all just be bullshit. Now McCain...he's too old, of course.

...
post #106 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Now McCain...he's too old, of course.

Don't give a shit about his age, his health or his "cunt" of a wife.

I care that people should be aware of this.

And this.

And this.

And this.

And this.

And more of these.
post #107 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

These were there comments and attitudes. I didn't solicit them. I've paraphrased of course, but not in a way that would change their meaning.

[CENTER]
You Little Jerk; You're Drafted![/CENTER]
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post #108 of 163
SDW- ALWAYS read the fine print...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

One more thing:

"Change!"

* Your milage may vary. "CHANGE" not valid for labor unions, government subsidies, or entitlement programs. May be combined on same ticket with other socialists. Candidate cash value 1/10 of one empty suit. Offer valid in the US of KKK A, or wherever populist BS sells. Not valid with gun and Bible-toting racists, or other bitter groups. Any resemblance of the ancient democratic liberal playbook of Mondale, FDR, Dukakis, Carter, and LBJ is purely coincidental.

In the future, I think we need that asterisk permanently affixed to the word, and human embodiment of, Change™*
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post #109 of 163
The "death throes" of the HRC campaign...

Assassination-gate!

... as if she would not be the nominee anyway if someone did the unthinkable.

This woman...
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post #110 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Then you frankly cannot read or will not read exit polls. I'm not going to do it for you.

You are talking about exit polls from Democratic primaries, yes?

And you do realize that primary voter turnouts are under representative of expected voter turnouts of the general election, yes?

And you do realize, that even if we were to use these exit polls (not just KY mind you), that Obama would get ~2/3 of the HRC voters, yes?

And you do realize, that if I add that ~2/3 of HRC voters to Obama's primary vote totals, that Obama receives more primary votes, then the entire Republican primary vote totals, yes?

And you do realize, that this is still true, even if I use the early primaries (e. g. through Super Tuesday), using the above criteria, that Obama's total still beats the entire Republican primary vote totals (through Super Tuesday that is), yes?

And you do realize that using primary numbers, might not reflect the voting patterns of a general election, such that I would appear to be rather foolish, if I used them to support my argument, yes?

In other words, your argument doesn't amount to a hill of beans, because primary numbers are not directly indicative of voting patterns in a fall general election, where there are only two major candidates. D'oh!
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post #111 of 163
I think it's sad that the Clinton's have really damaged their reputations. Particularly Bill. I know conservatives can't stand the couple, but Bill had high approval ratings all the way through blowjob-gate.

But now, when I see them, I just sigh in disappointment.
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post #112 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

In other words, your argument doesn't amount to a hill of beans, because primary numbers are not directly indicative of voting patterns in a fall general election, where there are only two major candidates. D'oh!

Thats... fscking... RICH.

Especially coming from the guy that claimed so indignantly to me yesterday that Republican voting numbers (after the candidate was decided) is highly indicative of at least something.

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post #113 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubelum View Post

The "death throes" of the HRC campaign...

Assassination-gate!

... as if she would not be the nominee anyway if someone did the unthinkable.

This woman...

I've mentioned it at least twice in previous threads.
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post #114 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

That's deluded. It truly is wishful thinking. Hagee doesn't approach the level of damage Wright has done. You're stating what you think SHOULD matter to people, not what actually does.

Then why has McCain been forced into rejecting and denouncing both Hagee and that other whack job, Parsley? I know you want Hagee et al to be a non-issue that doesn't compare to Wright. But, as Karl Rove and George Bush taught us in 2004, American's don't do "nuance" very well.

Quote:
Haven't heard much about it.

You're joking, right?

Quote:
He does, but since the media is in the tank for him, it will be presented as "racists won't vote for Obama!"

Again, you're joking, right? Obama may have successfully turned the media against Clinton, but to suggest that McCain hasn't enjoyed a cozy and coddled relationship with the media is both absurd and laughable in the grandest way. Barbecue anyone?

Quote:
That went away about a year ago.

So did Reverend Wright. But he came back again when it was politically expedient, didn't he?

Quote:
That was never a problem until Pastor Wright came up.

I would think that black's would coalesce around Obama more because of the attacks against black churches (which is what the Rev. Wright scandal is truly about ... black churches are scary and you can't trust anyone who would actually choose to attend one).

Quote:
"IF OBAMA WINS WHAT WILL WHITE'S LOSE?"

Now you're getting nutty.

Maybe. We are arguing politics after all.

Quote:
Let me know when you see that happen.

Well, I did see a YouTube video of a news piece done on Apalachian voters. In that news piece they interviewed several non-educated white folks who said, on camera, (I'm paraphrasing) "We enslaved those people and kept them down for a long time. What happens to us if they get the upper hand?"

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Whatever. Who started this campaign?

Does it matter? Come on.

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Hmm...or maybe Obama will actually have to defend himself on the issues. Maybe the GOP will clobber him on his inexperience, his ridiculous Iran/NK/Cuba positions, his tax and spend liberalism, his crazy associations with known terrorists and racists? Nah...it will all just be bullshit. Now McCain...he's too old, of course.

I didn't realize discussions with your perceived enemies was "ridiculous". What they hell are you and McCain so fucking afraid of? I've seen such a bunch of nervous nellies in my life, but jesus, "Oh my god. Oh my god. He's gonna talk to Iran! We won't get our war!!! Then what will we do? The military industrial complex will implode!!!"

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Oh boy. Someone doesn't know too much about McCain's opponent.

Doesn't matter. McCain's running on his "maverick" status. If he didn't think his entire brain trust being populated with lobbyist was a perception problem, he wouldn't have fired them all.

One more thing:

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"Change!"



Careful now. It was just a couple days ago that the NRCC and Boehner said that Republican re-branding must make them look like the change agent.

If "change" was something to ridicule and mock, then why the hell is John McW so mad that Obama has stolen the maverick/change mantle? Hmmm?

It was probably fun to type though. Did it give you a chuckle?

Enjoy Memorial Day!
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post #115 of 163
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Originally Posted by Jubelum View Post

Thats... fscking... RICH.

Especially coming from the guy that claimed so indignantly to me yesterday that Republican voting numbers (after the candidate was decided) is highly indicative of at least something.


The KY Republican primary total votes was a record percentage wise.

And as I already stated previously, the Republican primary numbers were pathetic (sic anemic) prior to, and including, Super Tuesday.
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #116 of 163
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Originally Posted by Jubelum View Post

SDW- ALWAYS read the fine print...



* Your milage may vary. "CHANGE" not valid for labor unions, government subsidies, or entitlement programs. May be combined on same ticket with other socialists. Candidate cash value 1/10 of one empty suit. Offer valid in the US of KKK A, or wherever populist BS sells. Not valid with gun and Bible-toting racists, or other bitter groups. Any resemblance of the ancient democratic liberal playbook of Mondale, FDR, Dukakis, Carter, and LBJ is purely coincidental.

In the future, I think we need that asterisk permanently affixed to the word, and human embodiment of, Change*

Yep. Change. And the fine print reads "because the Bush administration, with the help of a Republican Part cheering squad that only recently made an abrupt about face in a transparent to all, purely political desperation move, fucked up pretty much everything it touched, virtually anything would be better than this,"

So the Republican Party, which has spent the last seven years attempting to convince us that Bush was a visionary, wise, profoundly moral and brave man, will spend the next 6 months trying to convince us that they don't like Bush either, because he wasn't "conservative enough."

It's a track record and message so balls out fucked that they may wind up doing the impossible: get a black man elected president.

Now, you'd have to be in a coma to not realize that the Republicans are going to do everything in their power to make the race about scary black people. Naturally, given McCain's ludicrous claims to "decency", much of this will have to happen back channel, but the right is really good at that.

And, of course, just as reliably, people like SDW will spend the entire campaign season vehemently claiming that race has nothing to do with it. I suppose to the extent that racial propaganda gets laundered by the MSM, such folks can make the usual "so damming even the liberal media, etc." claims, ala Wright.

What makes it complicated is that there are plenty of people on the right who hate the Democratic candidate reflexively, and, while themselves not harboring any particular racial animosity, see using racial animosity to defeat the liberal as valid and necessary.

So we're going to have a lot of people acting as vectors for crude racial attacks who don't "believe" what they're forwarding but see it as means to an end, confident that there are racist voters who will be swayed.
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post #117 of 163
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Originally Posted by addabox View Post

What makes it complicated is that there are plenty of people on the right who hate the Democratic candidate reflexively, and, while themselves not harboring any particular racial animosity, see using racial animosity to defeat the liberal as valid and necessary.

That's the key right there! Nail on the head.

This is the "get out of jail free" card that conservatives on this board will use... "While I don't personally believe this, they do have a point...etc etc etc."
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post #118 of 163
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Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

That's the key right there! Nail on the head.

This is the "get out of jail free" card that conservatives on this board will use... "While I don't personally believe this, they do have a point...etc etc etc."

Yeah, and that will work in concert with the "liberals want to control what we can talk about" and the "objectively true" bits.

I fear there is going to be a lot of really egregiously racial stuff tossed about in the months to come, and a lot of it will be under cover of one of the above, or, more likely, brain melting combinations of same.

The Wright thing is a perfect example-- there are zero reasons to get exercised about Wright over Hagee outside of "when a black guy does it it's really scary", but that fact gets smuggled in with a lot of hand waving about "spiritual mentor" and "objectively scary".

Why a Wright is scary and a Hagee apparently is not need never be addressed directly, since the "scariness" (or, if you prefer, "repellent wrongness") of belligerent Negroes can be presumed as a given.

That presumption, of course, plays into what is likely to be a strong current of the media narrative, which will simply accept the idea that a black man running for president freaks out some percentage of the electorate, and be on the look out for opportunities to get excited about Obama "gaffes" which inflame such feelings.

Any effort to untangle any of this shit and call it what it is will be immediately branded liberal intolerance.

Oh, fuck it, just kill me now.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #119 of 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Why a Wright is scary and a Hagee apparently is not need never be addressed directly, since the "scariness" (or, if you prefer, "repellent wrongness") of belligerent Negroes can be presumed as a given.

Please enlighten me as to the "endorsement" vs "in-the-pew-for-20-years" distinction again?

If you want to talk church membership, we can.

If you want to talk endorsements, I have Hamas cued up for you.
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post #120 of 163
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Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

These were there comments and attitudes. I didn't solicit them. I've paraphrased of course, but not in a way that would change their meaning.

Of course, your description was entirely interpretive...
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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