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Report: 3G iPhone 22% thinner, better battery life - Page 2

post #41 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by reallynotnick View Post

Thinner, 3G, GPS, more storage and better battery life? I'll see it when I believe it.

And when you see it, you're going to buy it.

I'd be very, very afraid if I were RIM. This may mark the beginning of the end (albeit a slow decline toward dead) for the Crapberry.
post #42 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by momoe View Post

Again, 8 straight hours of internet on an iPhone?

Are you walking around, using Edge the whole time? Or are you sitting in a $tarbuck$?

If the latter, why not juice yourself up at some point with a little AC? The adapter is tiny compared with any laptop and is no weight burden to any typical backpack/messenger bag/attaché.

momoe 

I'm very mobile and usually don't have access to AC wall or DC lighter sockets long enough to warrant plugging it in. It serves its purpose well enough, but I could use a few more hours and/or a brighter screen. But it's not everyday that I'm out for that long, but when I am it's good to know I can go for 8 hours.
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post #43 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by PG4G View Post

I very strongly doubt the veracity of the claims on several grounds.

1. Steve was very worried about 3G's power draining, a problem that would result in A) more battery being placed in or B) lower battery life

2. To increase battery life in a 3G model, it would need a bigger battery. To knock off the size required to get to "22% thinner" would be analogous to taking out the entire touchscreen segment - I know because I have pulled the 1G apart. This doesn't even account for the EXTRA battery room required for more battery to Increase the life of the product.

3. Its not possible to get a battery the same size as it is into a smaller iPhone. There's just too much other hardware. OLED wouldn't make it happen, its still too thick with the touch sensor on the back.
All the other hardware, though still being there would mean the same chipspace if not a little more. There is simply no battery expansion room.

Unless Apple have found a wonderful new power source, I don't see the 22% happening.

I think this is quite plausible. You're missing a few important points:

- the new phone is going to have better integration, so less chips, more room. Same with the screen.

- the computer industry keeps on moving forward, that means better power consumption, smaller size. Last years model probably used 90nm predominately, this one probably uses 65nm.

- Apple have had more time to improve the physical (antenna, case) design which would yield more space. The fact that an all plastic back is rumoured is very telling.

- improved battery time will very likely not refer to 3G, but to 2G, with GS turned off, etc (comapring apples to apples so to speak)

This rumour sounds very sensible and very much like Apple. More memory, thinner with more features. GPS is a no brainer, it's a very popular feature. I'm willing to believe it all.
post #44 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobbes View Post

3G, 20% thinner, *and* better battery life?

Yeah, right.

"What? An adding machine that'll fit in your pocket? Yeah, right."

"What? A telephone that doesn't have to sit on the end table and will fit it my pocket? Yeah, right."
post #45 of 114
3G AND better battery life?!

Do those Apple engineers ever sleep?
post #46 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obi-Wan Kubrick View Post

One more thing. The iphone is now on Verizion too!

T-mobile! T-mobile! T-mobile!

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post #47 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickaha View Post

Sooooo... explain again how he doesn't have a clear financial dependence on all news Apple?

You've missed the point. As an established journalist on Apple, Leander depends on the integrity of facts, not rumors. His product is credibility and insight--why would he risk this in an arena that is saturated enough with rumors? As for analysts, they will profit no matter what they spew.
post #48 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Performa6200forLIFE View Post

You've missed the point. As an established journalist on Apple, Leander depends on the integrity of facts, not rumors. His product is credibility and insight--why would he risk this in an arena that is saturated enough with rumors?

Dunno, you'd have to ask him why he's doing it... but doing it he is. He is publishing speculation and rumor, and nothing more.

I kind of have to ask why you care so much to start a new account on his behalf.
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post #49 of 114
Thinner, more battery life, 3G and GPS. Pick only TWO of the three.
post #50 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Wired's Leander Kahney, arguably the most credible yet of those who've weighed in with alleged specs of Apple's upcoming 3G iPhone, is reporting the handset will be 22 percent thinner than its predecessor, not thicker as some earlier reports had suggested.

Citing "a programmer at a major software publisher," Kahney adds that the handset should also sport better battery life than the "up to 8 hours" of talk time advertised alongside its predecessor. It will also include GPS and twice the amount of NAND flash memory: either 16GB or 32GB.

I'm skeptical. They released the old one less than a year ago. In a year, they've supposedly added 3G, GPS, quadrupled the RAM and it's a quarter thinner - yet the battery life has increased?

If true, I'd be ecstatic. I just don't believe it.
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post #51 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obi-Wan Kubrick View Post

One more thing. The iphone is now on Verizion too!



http://www.fiercecio.com/techwatch/s...dma/2007-05-23
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post #52 of 114
Why would a programmer know about the form factor? Even the Apple iPhone programmers didn't know what the 1G would look like. Silly.
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post #53 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by merdhead View Post

I think this is quite plausible. You're missing a few important points:

- the new phone is going to have better integration, so less chips, more room. Same with the screen.

- the computer industry keeps on moving forward, that means better power consumption, smaller size. Last years model probably used 90nm predominately, this one probably uses 65nm.

- Apple have had more time to improve the physical (antenna, case) design which would yield more space. The fact that an all plastic back is rumoured is very telling.

- improved battery time will very likely not refer to 3G, but to 2G, with GS turned off, etc (comapring apples to apples so to speak)

This rumour sounds very sensible and very much like Apple. More memory, thinner with more features. GPS is a no brainer, it's a very popular feature. I'm willing to believe it all.

A lot of what you wrote is not from an understanding of the original technology, but in case you haven't pulled it apart, or in case you didn't read my post, the screen can't be reduced by much at all, it is quite compact as is.

Less chips? Adding GPS adds a chip (count them, there aren't many there and they are tiny as they are. Unless they stop existing, it still doesn't account)

better battery at 2G mode? Of course it will - efficiency increases. To state it straight out about the 3G iphone assumes that 3G is accounted for or its just another iPhone. If 2G of course it will be better battery time, even with the same size battery.

3G though? Battery time will drop, or at the best stay around the same.

8 hours is pretty out of reach for the iPhone I believe at this stage. The 3GOLD chipset isn't that good on power yet.
post #54 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by PG4G View Post

A lot of what you wrote is not from an understanding of the original technology, but in case you haven't pulled it apart, or in case you didn't read my post, the screen can't be reduced by much at all, it is quite compact as is.

Less chips? Adding GPS adds a chip (count them, there aren't many there and they are tiny as they are. Unless they stop existing, it still doesn't account)

better battery at 2G mode? Of course it will - efficiency increases. To state it straight out about the 3G iphone assumes that 3G is accounted for or its just another iPhone. If 2G of course it will be better battery time, even with the same size battery.

3G though? Battery time will drop, or at the best stay around the same.

8 hours is pretty out of reach for the iPhone I believe at this stage. The 3GOLD chipset isn't that good on power yet.

So you pulled it apart and now you're a state of the art touchscreen engineer? Best you leave it to the professionals.

As far as your idea on the limitation of chip counts, until there is only one chip in the iPhone, I won't be saying they've gone as far as they can. And chip sizes are largely determined by the number of pins (or balls these days) it has, as chips are combined there is need for less of them since the communication is internal, and the size drops.

I know that a popular maker of Bluetooth chips, CSR, have produced a combination GPS/Bluetooth chip, so GPS need not increase the chip count.

I don't think 2G talk time will increase mostly because of efficiency, but because it'll have a bigger battery. 3G battery life will always be worse (for the foreseeable future at least) but anyone who cares about talk time doesn't walk around in 3G mode anyway.
post #55 of 114
Subsidies? Say hello to the new razr.
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post #56 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post

I'm cynical. This sounds like a rumor generated to cause a stock drop when the REAL phone is revealed to be thicker.

It would only make the stock drop when revealed to be false if the stock rose on the hopes of it being true. Net result is zero.
post #57 of 114
One of the ways to tell if a rumor is true or not is to ask, Does this use technology that exists today? People frequently forget this when it comes to Apple products. Back when the MacBook Air was still a rumor people were speculating that it would contain an SSD drive at a capacity that was unavailable and a price that was impossibly low. Afterwards they all expressed disappointment that Apple hadn't set up its own factory for creating magical non-existent 256gb SSD drives at prices 10 times below their competitors 64gb drives. With this in mind I find it highly unlikely that Apple has a 3G phone that gets better battery life than its current phone. 3G phones have notoriously bad battery life. Apple doesn't do research on batteries and doesn't make batteries and better power management is never going to give you that kind of battery life.
post #58 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Performa6200forLIFE View Post

You've missed the point. As an established journalist on Apple, Leander depends on the integrity of facts, not rumors. His product is credibility and insight--why would he risk this in an arena that is saturated enough with rumors? As for analysts, they will profit no matter what they spew.

1. Even established journalists get it very, very wrong. Heck, O'Grady swore up and down that Apple was going to be releasing HDTVs for the living room awhile back, and even the NYT sometimes publishes this drivel. (Heck, I've heard Rob Enderle speak on the subject on NPR, so even very respectable news sources can sometimes be very misguided.)

2. Wired is hardly a credible news source. They're the geek equivalent of Cosmo. I learned the hard way how they're basically willing to sell their credibility completely away just to sell a few extra copies of a magazine when they had an "in-depth" article that in part discussed my software. (It was a complete fabrication in which the very few things that were accurate were carefully taken out of context to support his hypothesis. And this was about deployed software.)

3. Nobody knows. Everyone's got sources, and the sources have sources. And Apple likes misinformation. Wired probably doesn't have any better sources than c|net or AppleInsider.
post #59 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by dagamer34 View Post

Thinner, more battery life, 3G and GPS. Pick only TWO of the three.

Is it just me, or does anyone else count four?
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post #60 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8CoreWhore View Post

Why would a programmer know about the form factor?

If the programmer was doing testing on the final product.
post #61 of 114
He forgot to mention teleporting capabilities!!

I guess I will just stop readying anything about the 3G iPhone until Monday.
post #62 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Napoleon_PhoneApart View Post

"What? An adding machine that'll fit in your pocket? Yeah, right."

"What? A telephone that doesn't have to sit on the end table and will fit it my pocket? Yeah, right."

I think you've confused a multi-decade technology shift for one that happens in a single year. There's a lot of new features rumored, many of them more power consuming in general, and supposedly it's all going to get into a tinier package than the previous year's model.

It's possible, but I too am holding out the idea that it may also be an attempt at stock manipulation. Even if it's illegal, prosecution is pretty rare.
post #63 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by iVlad View Post

BUY A COMPUTER!!!!

Not a whole lot of computers support all day internet use on a battery.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PG4G View Post

I very strongly doubt the veracity of the claims on several grounds.

1. Steve was very worried about 3G's power draining, a problem that would result in A) more battery being placed in or B) lower battery life

Keep in mind that Steve saying something doesn't mean it's the concern that truly caused the feature to be dropped.
post #64 of 114
We always do this to ourselves...build things up to a frenzy only to be disappointed when nothing like this ever pans out. I can't recall any upgrade that has met or surpassed expectations.

My guess is 3G and a tapered form factor. I'll go as far as saying there won't even be GPS included.
Aim low so you'll be pleasantly surprised.
post #65 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by satchmo View Post

We always do this to ourselves...build things up to a frenzy only to be disappointed when nothing like this ever pans out. I can't recall any upgrade that has met or surpassed expectations.

My guess is 3G and a tapered form factor. I'll go as far as saying there won't even be GPS included.
Aim low so you'll be pleasantly surprised.

I'm only expecting iPhone2 (maybe not even that) and iPod Touch demo with some cool apps. If they hand out stickers, so much the better.

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post #66 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by satchmo View Post

We always do this to ourselves...build things up to a frenzy only to be disappointed when nothing like this ever pans out. I can't recall any upgrade that has met or surpassed expectations.

My guess is 3G and a tapered form factor. I'll go as far as saying there won't even be GPS included.
Aim low so you'll be pleasantly surprised.

THANK YOU!!! Apple prolly hates all these rumors! But they love us talking about this and getting excited.
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post #67 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobody Special View Post

I think you've got the right idea, but your price points are off. My guess:

First: $549/16GB, $699/32GB
Second: $299

Apple's history is to offer more functionality at the same price point in subsequent models -- see especially the history of iPod price to functionality and specs ratio over the years. So maybe $399 with a $499 BTO 32GB. I can't see $549 for the base main model.

The $299 sounds about right though -- for a "little iDevice for all of us" -- and it might be allowed to be subsidized to $200 as reports have suggested -- which would bring several rumors together.

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post #68 of 114
Quote:

Apple's admitted that their not married to any business model. The exclusive contract probably refers to revenue sharing. I'm sure Apple could (and might) decide to break the exclusive contract in exchange for loss of profit sharing of data plans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obi-Wan Kubrick View Post

One more thing. The iphone is now on Verizion too!

Working with Verizon would mean a separate CDMA version. I don't foresee that happening. Eventually GSM phones will work on Verizon as Verizon has said they will open up their network.
post #69 of 114
Something that is being overlooked is that when thne 1 was in R&D, very few within Apple knew that it was in development. You had the phone people and the multitouch iTablet people working on the same device. So, I'm pretty sure that the iPhone 2 will be the ideal iPhone that Jobs wanted to deliver. I'm sure Apple will once again blow us away when he shows us the new and improved iPhone. So yes, I believe that the new iPhone will deliver longer battery life, being from better battery or from power management within the OS. And I do believe that we will see a thinner, 3G, GPS, revamped iPhone come monday.

Also, a little off topic,but with two icon app slots available on the iPhone. What kindof fun apps do you guys think Santa Steve will give us?
post #70 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by pomo View Post

Also, a little off topic,but with two icon app slots available on the iPhone. What kindof fun apps do you guys think Santa Steve will give us?

Are you referring to the Home Screen? I believe you can currently have up to 8 home screens. SInce you can put bookmarks on the Home Screens and the App Store will allow you to install many apps I don't expect anythign but he App Store icon to be on there.
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post #71 of 114
First of all, If the claims of better battery life is true, Then I'd surely bet that there will be an asterisk next to the claim that points out that the stated battery life is measured with WIFI, GPS, Forward-facing cam, and potentially even UMTS/3G disabled.

But at the same time, a lighter/thinner 3G iPhone with better battery life is not necessarily wishful thinking. With regards to hardware improvements, people need to remember how fast integrated-circuit technology moves, particularly in microprocessors, embedded systems, telecommunications, etc. Since the first iPhone's parts were sourced, embedded chip manufacturers have moved to smaller processing nodes, with many chips going from 110/90nm down to 55nm/65nm. This leads to smaller die sizes and better power efficiency.

There are also always continuing advancements in chip integration and optimization. For communications, Maybe iPhone 3G has a special SoC ARM processor that not only is more power efficient from a die-shrink, but has improved architecture and algorithms. Maybe the iPhone 3G uses an advanced baseband chip that is smaller, yet includes UMTS, WiFi, and GPS all on one chip and thereby saves significant physical space which and allows the iPhone to be thinner, but have a larger battery at the same time. All I'm saying is that most of us don't know enough to be able to accurately predict whether they can pull this off the type of improvements in the rumor or not. We need an experienced mobile phone/embedded systems engineer to comment on recent developments in this technology area.

One final thing to think about is that Apple probably didn't use the smallest/most power efficient/most modern components available, so as to save some headroom for iPhone v2 improvements (and reduce costs).
post #72 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by ktappe View Post

This fits with the recent downgrading of Apple stock by an analyst who says there will be short supply of the chips Apple uses in the iPhone. Apple *wants* to release the iPhone worldwide next week and is sure going to try, but there may be supply constraints that will keep it from filling the retail channels until later this year. \

Is that a joke? Why would Apple risk doing that. You cant even buy iphone in the UK any more. Absolute rubbish.
post #73 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by pomo View Post

Something that is being overlooked is that when thne 1 was in R&D, very few within Apple knew that it was in development. You had the phone people and the multitouch iTablet people working on the same device. So, I'm pretty sure that the iPhone 2 will be the ideal iPhone that Jobs wanted to deliver. I'm sure Apple will once again blow us away when he shows us the new and improved iPhone. So yes, I believe that the new iPhone will deliver longer battery life, being from better battery or from power management within the OS. And I do believe that we will see a thinner, 3G, GPS, revamped iPhone come monday.

But do you have an opinion of your own on the matter?
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post #74 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by PG4G View Post

...Unless Apple have found a wonderful new power source, I don't see the 22% happening.

post #75 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by desarc View Post

why can't the 3G automatically turn on when you open safari and turn off when you go back to the home screen?

why can't das 3g automatically turn on when it checks email and turn back off when it's finished checking/downloading?

why can't les 3g automatically turn on and off when it's needed?

[i'm not so technically inclinced, but if you can turn it off manually, as suggested in software update photos, why not do it on the auto matic?]

Because that would make too much sense like copy and paste and a flash on the rear camera. Apple doesn't like making sense.
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post #76 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickaha View Post

Dunno, you'd have to ask him why he's doing it... but doing it he is. He is publishing speculation and rumor, and nothing more.

I kind of have to ask why you care so much to start a new account on his behalf.

Ouch! Take a chill pill.
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post #77 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by poke View Post

One of the ways to tell if a rumor is true or not is to ask, Does this use technology that exists today? People frequently forget this when it comes to Apple products. Back when the MacBook Air was still a rumor people were speculating that it would contain an SSD drive at a capacity that was unavailable and a price that was impossibly low. Afterwards they all expressed disappointment that Apple hadn't set up its own factory for creating magical non-existent 256gb SSD drives at prices 10 times below their competitors 64gb drives. With this in mind I find it highly unlikely that Apple has a 3G phone that gets better battery life than its current phone. 3G phones have notoriously bad battery life. Apple doesn't do research on batteries and doesn't make batteries and better power management is never going to give you that kind of battery life.

You win the thread!
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post #78 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by satchmo View Post

We always do this to ourselves...build things up to a frenzy only to be disappointed when nothing like this ever pans out. I can't recall any upgrade that has met or surpassed expectations.

My guess is 3G and a tapered form factor. I'll go as far as saying there won't even be GPS included.
Aim low so you'll be pleasantly surprised.

I agree with your prediction.
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #79 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by ktappe View Post

This fits with the recent downgrading of Apple stock by an analyst who says there will be short supply of the chips Apple uses in the iPhone. Apple *wants* to release the iPhone worldwide next week and is sure going to try, but there may be supply constraints that will keep it from filling the retail channels until later this year. \

That's funny - just a week or so ago, there was a rumor of OVERSUPPLY of these chips - and the analyst blamed reduced Apple usage. Hint: Don't believe rumors.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Performa6200forLIFE View Post

You've missed the point. As an established journalist on Apple, Leander depends on the integrity of facts, not rumors. His product is credibility and insight--why would he risk this in an arena that is saturated enough with rumors? As for analysts, they will profit no matter what they spew.

Since when has factual integrity been the hallmark of journalism? OK, maybe back in the 60's, but for the last 20 years, 'journalism' has been all about hype, FUD, and building mountains out of molehills.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 8CoreWhore View Post

Why would a programmer know about the form factor? Even the Apple iPhone programmers didn't know what the 1G would look like. Silly.

Apple often distributes beta units for programmers. They didn't do it with iPhone 1.0 because there were no authorized outside programmers. Since one of the features of iPhone 2.0 is the ability to have third party programs, it wouldn't surprise me to have some in the hands of programmers.
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post #80 of 114
It's possible I'd guess. Likely, no. Leander has been known to be a bit away with the fairies at times quoting unqualified rumours.

Here's why I think it's possible and purely my take on what I've read over the last year...

iPhone v1 was more a stick in the sand design. All the parts were pretty much off the shelf and v1 was split between two boards - one 'logic', one comms. I'd guess that they could just switch out the comms board for a 3G comms board and be done with v2 but that wouldn't give them thinner and better battery, and Steve likes thinner.

If they've been doing their work in the last two to three years since the v1 design was probably finished, v2 will use more highly integrated chips, reducing the chip count and using better processes. The ARM SOC manufacturers are using 45nm now. Some of iPhone v1's ARM chips are on .13 microns! They've also got multiple CPUs in there that seem to be underused to me. The SGOLD3 chip on the comms board is pretty much a phone in itself with it's own ARM926 core and second ARM7 core but they've also got the main ARM CPU on the logic board. To me, the iPhone design still looks like an iPod Touch with a cheap EDGE phone board slapped on. It's surely inefficient in both space and power.

So, it's highly possible the board and chip design has got smaller/simpler yet adding features and requiring less power. That might give them room for a smaller battery and so thinner.

Out of left field, there's also that patent for solar charging a few weeks back with solar cells under the LCD display. Maybe they've added that, reduced the battery size and added a big asterisk that says 'when tested in sunny California' to the specs. I hope they don't as I'm in rainy Manchester.
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