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Ballmer: you can buy Vista and downgrade to XP for free - Page 2

post #41 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post

....They need an OS written from scratch....

Problem is, Microsoft has never written an OS from scratch. They bought DOS by acquiring Seattle Computer Products, who wrote it. (It was a probably-illegal unauthorized 16-bit port of CP/M anyway.) Then when Scully gave them the Macintosh UI, they still weren't capable of even copying it competently. Anyone who's holding their breath waiting for them to write a whole new, game-changing OS from scratch is going to get awfully dizzy!
post #42 of 95
My actual opinion only requires a minor modification to the headline:

Ballmer, YOU can buy Vista and downgrade to XP for free

What a week for the world's only real chairman - first Mossberg discovers the Dock in Windows 7 (lady: "this is something we are copying on, cannot talk about it") and mentions the iPhone a hundred times while Ballmer's Valkyrie demonstrates a million ways to get finger grease on a vertical touch screen (to do such important things as playing a one-octave piano, operate a bad copy of MacPaint or shuffle and twist around a few images without any obvious concept at all) - and now he has to advertise his current OS by throwing in an almost 7 year old one... It is great when this happens to someone who deserves it soooo much.
post #43 of 95
hahahaa aahahAHAhaHahahaHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHah
ahAHAHahahaHAHAhahAHAhahahahahAAAHaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaa!

Ballmer you stupid F@#$! The only reason I have vista is for MyMovies , and the only reason I recieved Vista is because i bought a mac and installed your usage tracking thing on my pc for 90 days, after which I got Vista for free. Oh- and I dont use the pc anymore.

when a pc building guy like me switches, you guys are screwed!!!
post #44 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyinmac View Post

Seems that they forgot to mention that you can only downgrade if you have a system with an OEM copy of Vista.

If you buy Vista, then you cannot downgrade to XP. So, it seems that the way it was worded is essentially a lie. You cannot buy Vista and downgrade to XP. But, you can buy a new computer and downgrade to XP. That's a pretty big difference.

I'm new to this. I just bought a low cost Compaq laptop with Vista Home on it.

It doesn't have any discs, so how exactly do you "downgrade" to XP?
post #45 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmcglinn View Post

Think Apple can do no wrong? Remember that every time Mail.app changes people are upset. Remember the MacOS 9 to OS X transition? People complain about everything new and different, change might be good, but humans aren't so good at accepting it.

We put up with a heck of lot more than that.

Motorola 68000 > PPC > Intel

NuBus > PCI/AGP & variations > PCI various flavors

ADB > USB > USB 2 (very late) NB PC users got serial-USB adaptors to ease them over the transition.

No Hard Drives > SCSI > ATA/ATAPI/SATA/eSATA > FW400 (sometimes) > FW400/FW800 (sometimes)

No CDS > CDs Apple Only > CDs No CDR or CDRW > DVDs (sometimes) DVDRW (sometimes) > CDRW/DVDRW > CDRW/DVDRW ignored by iMove

800kb Floppies > 1.44 Mb floppies (very late) > No Floppies & no output devices > CDR

16 bit naming > 32 bit naming > 256 bit naming (very very late)

Various Apple font encodings > Unicode (very very very late)

Original MacOS > System 7 > OS9 > OSX (in all its flavors)

Even now in OSX there is so much that is not long term compatible. Whereas Windows users get long term support for QuickTime and iTunes, Apple users must have the latest or find the unique set of versions that run only with their Mac/OS.

Each step forward has initially been quite a step backwards for users, and the progress has been made at the users' (considerable) expense.

Ignoring the one eyed views often expressed here, THAT is why a lot of Windows users have looked at us as irrational Apple serfs.

And what has worked right through all of this right up to Leopard? AppleWorks! Which Apple has discarded.
post #46 of 95
Shouldn't the headline read: "Buy Vista upgrade to XP for free!"
post #47 of 95
You know, "downgrade" is a relatively recent word. The appropriate real word should be "degrade."

So, how does this sound, "Buy Vista and Degrade to XP for Free!" A little more enlightening about Microsoft's current direction, huh?

I wonder if this is going to cause a chain reaction where people fall down the Rabbit Hole and degrade from XP to 2000 to ME to 98 to 95 and all the way back to the glory days of Windows 3.0, distributed on a stack of floppies, which was described as "an awesome Solitaire game with some file management tools."

As far as his retirement is concerned, how's he going to put it, "I'm stepping down to spend more time with my empty nest?" That must be one fouled-up family where the multi-billionaire dad times his retirement to coincide with his kids leaving.
post #48 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by gastroboy View Post

We put up with a heck of lot more than that.

Motorola 68000 > PPC > Intel

etc.

Impressive list, but every one of Apple's moves you mentioned were improvements! All of them made Macs more compatible with the world at large so using a Mac became more cost-effective.

Also, many of these were driven by the changes in technology that were beyond Apple's influence.

It sounds like Vista was a change for change's sake and a large number of people think it was a degradation. I think Apple's most visible fuck-up like that was iMovie '08 ( I, like many others, liked iMovie HD (aka '06) just fine and Apple was forced to provide us a path to have both on our machines.)

So, there's a difference between change and improvement. I wish Barack Obama would have a message of improvement rather than change. One change in our Iraq policy would be to turn it into an American colony/commonwealth/ territory/protectorate, etc., but that wouldn't be an improvement.
post #49 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by icfireball View Post

Ballmer looked genuinely furious for a second but managed to keep his cool.

You mean:

Ballmer looked genuinely scared for a while but managed to keep from crapping his pants.
post #50 of 95
[QUOTE=gastroboy;1259938]We put up with a heck of lot more than that.

Motorola 68000 > PPC > Intel

NuBus > PCI/AGP & variations > PCI various flavors

ADB > USB > USB 2 (very late) NB PC users got serial-USB adaptors to ease them over the transition.

No Hard Drives > SCSI > ATA/ATAPI/SATA/eSATA > FW400 (sometimes) > FW400/FW800 (sometimes)

No CDS > CDs Apple Only > CDs No CDR or CDRW > DVDs (sometimes) DVDRW (sometimes) > CDRW/DVDRW > CDRW/DVDRW ignored by iMove

800kb Floppies > 1.44 Mb floppies (very late) > No Floppies & no output devices > CDR



and each time these up-grades happened, and I waited 30 days or so to up-grade, my office / business was NEVER DOWN, because of the up-grade. I was not able to use my Mac each day without any issues (or at least nothing a few minutes didn't fix)

Lucky maybe, but I think it appears we Mac folks, have been blessed (So far) with the best OS.

Can we expect issue to crop up with each new OS - unless we are day dreaming, you better be prepared. Each computer and it's user are different, and Apple can not possibly check each combination of computer, with each different software combination which is why they (and most other companies) have beta testers.

Shiiit IS going to happen, it's what the company does when it does. How fast they fix it, come up with a patch.

Like the old saying goes "if you can do better, then do it" "if not, then learn to live with what you have" - not sure of the quote, but I'm sure you get the point.

I HATE the fact that Adobe purchased MacroMedia, and is not going to upgrade Freehand, but I get by. I have choices and I live with which ones I make.

I have an Intel Mac running 10.4.11 and will not like up-grade this computer, not at least, until I can do with Illustrator (as fast) what I can do with Freehand.

So that I get to use / play with the latest OS, I purchased a 17" MBP. So I have the best of both world. I computer running without isses, and one to play with, and see what I like - dislike about the newest OS.

Life is good

Skip
post #51 of 95
Switch Now! Before Ballmer completely looses his mind. I would be ashamed to admit I work at MicroSoft.

When's the next service pack? Dumb-asses.

me
post #52 of 95
Why is this man still the CEO of Microsoft? Why hasn't the board of directors ejected his ass? Why haven't the shareholders revolted and started a movement to do so? He's been given more than enough time to demonstrate his inability to lead the company successfully.

This is what happens when you grow too many tentacles: there isn't enough blood going to your brain. They need the kind of blood transfusion Steve Jobs gave Apple upon his return. Ballmer, Ray Ozzie, and Bill Gates should be escorted out of the building. All middle managers fired. All projects not integral to the core business of selling software and services to businesses and consumers terminated or spun off.

I want to see Microsoft thrive. They do turn some great products, and their R&D churns great technology. They can still play a significant, enriching role in the industry.
post #53 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by gastroboy View Post

I'm new to this. I just bought a low cost Compaq laptop with Vista Home on it.

It doesn't have any discs, so how exactly do you "downgrade" to XP?

Only Vista Business and Vista Ultimate come with the downgrade rights. Vista Home Basic and Vista Home Premium do not.

As for the installation media... You have to find a valid copy of the XP disc to do the downgrade.

If the installation media has been used previously to install XP on a different machine, then product activation will not happen automatically; instead, you'll have to call a 1-800 number, at which point the customer service representative will verify that you really do have an OEM license for Vista Ultimate or Business, and then you'll be guided through the manual product activation process over the telephone.
post #54 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quillz View Post

Of course they can. Microsoft owns the business market. Name one major corporation that doesn't rely on Exchange servers, Office, Outlook, etc...

G*neral El*ctric.

They use those products of course, but we've long since given up on "relying" on them...


PS -- I can see a great "I'm a Mac... and I'm a PC" commercial coming out of this...
post #55 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quillz View Post

Of course they can. Microsoft owns the business market. Name one major corporation that doesn't rely on Exchange servers, Office, Outlook, etc.

And so what if some people dislike Vista? All those "IT professionals," bloggers, etc. make up an extremely vocal minority. The vast majority of Vista users have no issues with it, and this is how it works with every Windows release. Just like when XP came out, it was fine for the vast majority of people, but a few claimed (incorrectly) that 98 was better.

Just so folks know, my question was 'hypothetical' and the "can MS survive the next 9 to 10 years" was only a play on the fact that Ballmer would still be in charge for the next 9 to 10 years. As in can MS survive Ballmer?! Do I think MS will be around in 10 years. You bet. Will it have the clout it had in the 90's, doubt it, unless some drastic changes occur.

Ballmer does not seem to be a very good CEO to manage MS and MS itself has gotten away from their roots of creator of an OS with their own select brand of apps to a company that has their hands in too many areas because they see other companies making money off it, such as X-Box, the Zune & Marketplace, and who knows, their mobile OS on other manufacturers phones to, and you know they got to be thinking about it, the MSphone... Microsoft should stick to what they think they do best and put out a "superior" update be it to the OS or an app, as currently, MS is the jack of all trades but master of none!

Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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post #56 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyinmac View Post

Seems that they forgot to mention that you can only downgrade if you have a system with an OEM copy of Vista.

If you buy Vista, then you cannot downgrade to XP. So, it seems that the way it was worded is essentially a lie. You cannot buy Vista and downgrade to XP. But, you can buy a new computer and downgrade to XP. That's a pretty big difference.

And by the looks of it it has to have Vista Business or Vista Ultimate.... Man I love the Bait and switch on this one.
post #57 of 95
Self Delete

Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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post #58 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by macFanDave View Post

So, there's a difference between change and improvement. I wish Barack Obama would have a message of improvement rather than change. One change in our Iraq policy would be to turn it into an American colony/commonwealth/ territory/protectorate, etc., but that wouldn't be an improvement.

I wish when Obama speaks, he says something!

Good grief, don't make Iraq an American colony/commonwealth/territory/protectorate, etc. cuz THEN THE DEMOCRATS AND ENVIRONMENTALISTS WON'T LET THEM DRILL FOR OIL!

Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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post #59 of 95
I can't believe the article and comments don't use the word "beleaguered". You guys are slacking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by macFanDave View Post

Impressive list, but every one of Apple's moves you mentioned were improvements! All of them made Macs more compatible with the world at large so using a Mac became more cost-effective.

While I'd agree that most were improvements, how did going from 68000 to PPC improve compatibility with the world at large?
post #60 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by macFanDave View Post

Impressive list, but every one of Apple's moves you mentioned were improvements! All of them made Macs more compatible with the world at large so using a Mac became more cost-effective.

I will repeat:

"Each step forward has initially been quite a step backwards for users, and the progress has been made at the users' (considerable) expense."

Quote:
Also, many of these were driven by the changes in technology that were beyond Apple's influence.

Oh what rubbish! They were not beyond Apple's influence. They were Apple's choices and each time we were fed a line about how clever Apple was making them.

Quote:
It sounds like Vista was a change for change's sake and a large number of people think it was a degradation. I think Apple's most visible fuck-up like that was iMovie '08 ( I, like many others, liked iMovie HD (aka '06) just fine and Apple was forced to provide us a path to have both on our machines.)

Please explain how it is necessary and good to have to use 2 separate applications to perform a task that one should be doing if it hadn't been sabotaged by Apple. I've been an Apple user for almost 25 years now but I am not oblivious to how Apple careers all over the landscape, because it can get away with it, and always have the starry eyed Mac users applauding on the sideline their brilliant driving.

Quote:
So, there's a difference between change and improvement. I wish Barack Obama would have a message of improvement rather than change. One change in our Iraq policy would be to turn it into an American colony/commonwealth/ territory/protectorate, etc., but that wouldn't be an improvement.

Wish I could follow this line of argument, but I can't! Sorry! And I do hope Obama gets a chance to make a difference before some "loyal", "right-thinking", "freedom-loving" American shoots him.

And you are not allowed to offend the great American people by saying that is how things have been done for the last 238 years.
post #61 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by lfmorrison View Post

Only Vista Business and Vista Ultimate come with the downgrade rights. Vista Home Basic and Vista Home Premium do not.

As for the installation media... You have to find a valid copy of the XP disc to do the downgrade.

If the installation media has been used previously to install XP on a different machine, then product activation will not happen automatically; instead, you'll have to call a 1-800 number, at which point the customer service representative will verify that you really do have an OEM license for Vista Ultimate or Business, and then you'll be guided through the manual product activation process over the telephone.

Thanks for the good oil.

I had to buy it for my Ski Club's accounts software, I'd have much rather got a MacBook and used Boot Camp but they wouldn't let me and with the price difference it was an argument I couldn't win.

I can get a copy of XP from my brother but will run Vista Home Basic for a stretch to see just how good/bad it is.
post #62 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by timothyjay2004 View Post

To me, innovative means invent. So when I said to be innovative, I really meant that they need to invent/bring new ideas to the table, which they really haven't done since windows 95.

I understand the confusion, but innovate and invent don't mean the same thing. Your point was still made.

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post #63 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by lfmorrison View Post

Only Vista Business and Vista Ultimate come with the downgrade rights. Vista Home Basic and Vista Home Premium do not.

That's the piece of the puzzle that I didn't know. That's really kind of crappy for those who really only needed the basic/home version and are having problems with it. It's not very fair.
post #64 of 95
Ballmer's comment is a con-job. Sure, you can downgrade if you buy Vista Ultimate or Business.

If, however, you're trying to buy an inexpensive PC, you're SOL. There's no downgrade option from either version of Vista Home. So if you're buying a home system and want XP, you have to first pay extra for an upgrade to Vista Business before you can downgrade back to XP.
post #65 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Oh, jeez. What a desperate move by Ballmer. He has to be one of the biggest idiots to ever step into the role of CEO.

Ballmer is the quintessential example of how our world and society is simply unravelling from the inside. You should watch a film called Idiocracy, this is the way we are headed.

The fact is he is No. 1. in the largest software company in the world and he is an utter buffoon to put it in mild terms.

If Microsoft want people to use Windows 7 they'll have to give it away free. Linux will be so much further ahead by then, Mac will continue to gain share, but all the computers now not good enough to run Vista will run Linux very nicely thanks. You want awesome effects, check out Beryl/Compiz.

Open Source delights, free to all with a purpose. They exist because we have a genuine need for them. not what Microsoft tells us we need.

Microsoft have advised businesses that it is better to get past the pain of transitioning to Vista sooner rather than later. What fucking idiot thought that bit of PR up???? I think business will go to open source rather than fool about like that, it is not fun and exciting to have to relearn all over again how to do common tasks that we rely upon in our workflow.
post #66 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by gastroboy View Post

I will repeat:
Quote:
"Each step forward has initially been quite a step backwards for users, and the progress has been made at the users' (considerable) expense."

Oh what rubbish! They were not beyond Apple's influence. They were Apple's choices and each time we were fed a line about how clever Apple was making them.

Apple made the price of DVD-R's plummet? They invented USB? (Of course, they did invent FireWire, but that's a whole 'nother story.) Apple made SCSI either obsolete or fringe? You are the ignoramus here.


Quote:
Please explain how it is necessary and good to have to use 2 separate applications to perform a task that one should be doing if it hadn't been sabotaged by Apple. I've been an Apple user for almost 25 years now but I am not oblivious to how Apple careers all over the landscape, because it can get away with it, and always have the starry eyed Mac users applauding on the sideline their brilliant driving.

Generally, Apple's upgrades have been positive. The frustrating thing about the iMovie catastrophe is that iMovie '08 has some great features, but took away some of the things that we great in '06. And, in reality, you are very oblivious because Apple gets pilloried by some hardcore group or another for every upgrade it makes. There is always this Greek chorus of complainers that show up at every change. The Niner Whiners were the worst.


Quote:
Wish I could follow this line of argument, but I can't! Sorry! And I do hope Obama gets a chance to make a difference before some "loyal", "right-thinking", "freedom-loving" American shoots him.

OK, I'm going to type V-E-R-Y S-L-O-W-L-Y for you to see my point. You see, the Obama campaign has the theme of "Change." (BTW, I do support him.) But, "change" could be for the better (Mac OS X, especially starting with 10.2) or for the worse (Vista). It is assumed that when Obama speaks of change that it will be for the better, but I wish it were more explicitly stated. You already hear the bigots spewing crap like he would "change" America into an Islamic Republic.

Quote:
And you are not allowed to offend the great American people by saying that is how things have been done for the last 238 years.

You don't find too many of us to be very proud of slavery, lynching, Jim Crow laws, Plessy vs. Ferguson, the Dred Scott Case, our treatment of minorities and women in the past, Vietnam, etc. And looking at surveys taken currently, more than 70% of us are not proud of George W. Bush. We are all not as arrogant as our Dear Leader.

By the way, my country is going to turn 232 on July 4, and we don't look a day over 225!
post #67 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rot'nApple View Post

The real question now is, can Microsoft survive the next 9 or 10 years???

Unless Apple changes their strategy, yes they will continue to limp on.
post #68 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokolosh View Post

talk about lipstick on a pig. Can you imagine Jobs pulling that stunt?

"One more thing! Today we bring you the new iPhone. But don't worry, for those who don't like GPS, 3G, and some really bitchin' video conferencing capabilities you can push this reset button on the back of this phone and it will instantly become the generation 1 iPhone."


No I think it's more along the line of this:

"Today we bring you the latest maintenance release of Leopard...for those who are unsatisfied with the bugs and glitches it current has (and we are diligently working those ones and other, you can downgrade to Tiger for free"


I wonder if that would ever happen?
post #69 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post

Unless Apple changes their strategy, yes they will continue to limp on.

THey earn more net profit than Apple and even have a higher gross to net ratio than Apple. They are far from limping.
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post #70 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

THey earn more net profit than Apple and even have a higher gross to net ratio than Apple. They are far from limping.

In terms of marketshare and profit, they are still very strong. In terms of PR and quality control they are in the dumps. Of course this has to do with a near monopoly for windows in many market segments.
post #71 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by macFanDave View Post

Apple made the price of DVD-R's plummet? They invented USB? (Of course, they did invent FireWire, but that's a whole 'nother story.) Apple made SCSI either obsolete or fringe? You are the ignoramus here.

That media was going to become cheap was a surprise? That they chose to lock their users into decades of generally unsupported hardware, because their's was "Superior"? History has said otherwise.

That they keep screwing up FireWire (in OSX 10.3 & 10.5) or removing it (from iPods) or not including it on some of their Mac models? That they completely obsoleted SCSI in one swoop with the G4s and OSX, whereas PCs still use it in server implementations?

That they actually built hardware with no way to save data or attempt rescues in a crisis, other than over a network which in all likelihood would then be unavailable? I know, I found myself in that position.

That they dragged their heels over CDR, DVDR, USB2, 256 bit system and Unicode (of which they were a founding member for Christ's sake). That they changed the plugs on FW800 and have repeatedly used ports that require expensive adaptors to use, which they don't include with the hardware. That they used over the years a vast array of mutually incompatible video connectors, tied to various monitors.

That they dragged us through 2 major incompatible changes of processors and a major system change because they had deadended themselves through their own choices? Each time almost crippling their users' productivity and forcing them to pay for major changes in hardware and software to do nothing else but try and stay in business. In all cases causing us to go backwards for a year or more.

That you then ignore the vast majority of the rest of my list?

You are talking out of your Apple flavoured arse!

Quote:
There is always this Greek chorus of complainers that show up at every change. The Niner Whiners were the worst.

That is the stupid attitude that blames the victims, because they apparently haven't a clue what all the above did to them or their bottom lines.

Nobody objected to changes that brought the improvements we had been pleading for for ages. It was entirely reasonable though to object to arbitrary, crippling change that damaged the ability to continue working productively with existing investments.

Apple has an extremely disdainful attitude to its users, I guess they have them pegged as submissive, uncritical devotees. They love throwing out the baby with the bathwater, because it isn't their baby, they've got a new one.

The Niners' objections were to broken user interface conventions that Apple itself had set up years before and were essential elements in user productivity. Also changes like Font usage in OSX that 8 years later is still crap.

Quote:
OK, I'm going to type V-E-R-Y S-L-O-W-L-Y for you to see my point. You see, the Obama campaign has the theme of "Change." (BTW, I do support him.) But, "change" could be for the better (Mac OS X, especially starting with 10.2) or for the worse (Vista). It is assumed that when Obama speaks of change that it will be for the better, but I wish it were more explicitly stated. You already hear the bigots spewing crap like he would "change" America into an Islamic Republic.

The S-L-O-W typing is for your own benefit. Obama cannily knows the American public and he isn't about to tell them that they are part of the problem and are going to have to change themselves. After all they voted for and supported Bush twice because he is as ignorant and prejudiced as they are.

Like Bush they believe America is not the problem, that all they need is to invade more countries for oil so they can continue to do donuts in the carparks of the United States of Allyoucaneat.

Quote:
You don't find too many of us to be very proud of slavery, lynching, Jim Crow laws, Plessy vs. Ferguson, the Dred Scott Case, our treatment of minorities and women in the past, Vietnam, etc. And looking at surveys taken currently, more than 70% of us are not proud of George W. Bush. We are all not as arrogant as our Dear Leader.

And you certainly don't "all" like to vote. Nor see what is fundamentally wrong with a system that is so fascinated by its own propaganda and fictionalised history that it ignores the Plutocracy masquerading as a Democracy.

Quote:
By the way, my country is going to turn 232 on July 4, and we don't look a day over 225!

My apologies, my off the cuff calculations were from a date more meaningful to us.
post #72 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokolosh View Post

talk about lipstick on a pig. Can you imagine Jobs pulling that stunt?

Except for that little iMovie '08 boondoggle. After the Macworld keynote where Jobs so excitedly introduced iMovie '08, Apple quietly announced that the old iMovie HD would be available as a free download for people who wanted or needed it. (iMovie '08 could not fully play iMovie HD files).
post #73 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by gastroboy View Post

Obama cannily knows the American public and he isn't about to tell them that they are part of the problem and are going to have to change themselves. After all they voted for and supported Bush twice because he is as ignorant and prejudiced as they are.

No, Obama will gladly tell the American public they are part of the problem because that is one of the Democratic Party talking point. He's just such a sweet talking snake oil salesman that it won't register with enough people, and they will go out and probably cast their vote for him. Why, so history can be made and a "Black" becomes president. How about MLK's "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character." message he preached? You can't talk about Obama and his associates without the "R" word being leveled at you, so you can't get the bottom of the content that makes up his character. He talks about change... what's he changed? They say Washington is so partisan, what "coming together" did Obama do? What legislation did he author or support that he gave as well as he took in order for it's passage? These are some of the questions bothering me and is why I don't support the man and the press doesn't do anything about it. He's their guy! Hell, Chris Matthew's leg gets all tingly for Pete's sake. However, only the so called "educated" and "cultural elitist" such as Michelle Obama, opps, can't talk about her either, are the ones that think America is the problem. I mean she has to pay back her college loan! Shocking!! How about she protest "Big Ed." and the high salaries of university professors and administrative staff. It seems to be all the rage with "Big Oil" and high gas prices. Who else thinks America is the problem, how about a majority of the "diplomats" in the UN that come from countries that would just as soon drag you out to the street and shoot you then give you freedom of speech or a fair trial. However, the "ignorant and prejudiced" average joe who "clings to his gun and bible" from the fly over heartland part of the country I bet would tell you - "You're full of sh*t!"

Quote:
Originally Posted by gastroboy View Post

Like Bush they believe America is not the problem, that all they need is to invade more countries for oil so they can continue to do donuts in the carparks of the United States of Allyoucaneat.

Again with this idiotic remark of invading more countries for oil? If that's true, where's the damn oil??????????? My SUV's ready for lower gas prices!

Quote:
Originally Posted by gastroboy View Post

Nor see what is fundamentally wrong with a system that is so fascinated by its own propaganda and fictionalised history that it ignores the Plutocracy masquerading as a Democracy.

Good thing too... considering that America is not a Democracy but a Republic! To bad you were busy thinking of a sentence that would include the words "fascinated", "propaganda", "fictionalised history", "Plutocracy" and last but not least "masquerading" and not bother to fact-check! Regarding "Plutocracy", hell, I'd like to be a Rich SOB and join the other Rich SOB's up on Capitol Hill. Maybe if I had the Queen's Jewelry, I could join?! Of course then I'd have to decide whether to join with the democrats who have a majority of millionaires in congress or republicans? [/QUOTE]

Quote:
Originally Posted by gastroboy View Post

Wish I could follow this line of argument, but I can't! Sorry! And I do hope Obama gets a chance to make a difference before some "loyal", "right-thinking", "freedom-loving" American shoots him.


before some "loyal", "right-thinking", "freedom-loving" American shoots him... You obviously don't know THE CLINTONS! That's why Obama doesn't want Hillary as VP, because then she's just one heartbeat away from the presidency and who is in her way??? Remember what she said, she's in it to win it! Tell me how that line of thinking of hers has changed?


Quote:
Originally Posted by gastroboy View Post

And you are not allowed to offend the great American people by saying that is how things have been done for the last 238 years.

Americans don't take offense. Our sentiments are more in tune with the Jack Nicholson (Col. Jessup) character in the movie "A Few Good Men": "You see Danny, I can deal with the bullets, and the bombs, and the blood. I don't want money, and I don't want medals. What I do want is for you to stand there in that faggoty white uniform and with your Harvard mouth extend me some fucking courtesy. You gotta ask me nicely."

See it's just envy from other countries that in the last 238 years America has come so far, so fast, while other countries where the sun never sets, it's dusk! Yeah Baby, Yeah!!! (a little Austen Power lingo).

PS. Being your typical American "mutt" because my American father married a lady from England, gives me a little right to have some harmless fun at the expense of my "adopted" homeland where half my family lives! God Save the Queen, no one here is going to.

Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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post #74 of 95
You've tagged me to the wrong country.

Bush did not invade Iraq to save the Iraqis or the World from Saddam Hussein. Nor because he has some ideological antipathy to dictators brutal or otherwise. If he did he would have invaded North Korea, which has supported more terrorists than Saddam ever did.

But then this is the thinking of a man who spouts nonsense like "Democracies don't need WMD!" Americans are so well informed they don't even catch the irony of such statements.

Iraq is a mixed bag of securing middle eastern oil supplies, not just in Iraq, "fixing it" for Israel, exercising America's big stick which hadn't been wielded for a while, making a bit of money for the good ole boys in the Skull and Bones, a bit of Biblical nonsense and "Leadership", whatever that means.

The fact it didn't produce any of the above, except slipping a wad into Halliburton's back pocket, is proof that this ne'er-do-well President didn't think it would?

I've heard the old "envy" thing from many self centred individuals.

Isn't there just a possibility that people can be jack of self serving, grasping hypocrisy that plays as beneficent well-meaning farce, all at others' expense, and call it for what it is?

btw I was reviewing what you wrote "because Americans don't take offense" and, looking past the popping eyeballs and pulsating veins, I caught this gem:

Quote:
America is not a Democracy but a Republic!

Guess you won't have to pay back your college dues!
post #75 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmcglinn View Post

Trying to be everything to everyone is certainly stretching them pretty badly.

Microsoft is always concerned with backwards compatibility. You can run a DOS program from 1988 on a brand new Vista computer. Windows APIs from the the start all work.

Just a note.
Actually Vista 64-bit doesn't support any DOS or 16-bit windows applications, that backward compatibility has all been dropped from the 64-bit version of the OS.
post #76 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by ulric View Post

Just a note.
Actually Vista 64-bit doesn't support any DOS or 16-bit windows applications, that backward compatibility has all been dropped from the 64-bit version of the OS.

Can we at least say that MS supports legacy code far longer than it should and often to the detriment of its ability to progress their platform?
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #77 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buck View Post

By getting none?

Good call. Microsoft's problem is Bill Gates was really good at selling crap, Ballmer isn't.

Seriously, what a stupid comment to say it's a good deal to be getting both, wow the ignorance.
post #78 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by gastroboy View Post

You've tagged me to the wrong country.

Bush did not invade Iraq to save the Iraqis or the World from Saddam Hussein. Nor because he has some ideological antipathy to dictators brutal or otherwise. If he did he would have invaded North Korea, which has supported more terrorists than Saddam ever did.

But then this is the thinking of a man who spouts nonsense like "Democracies don't need WMD!" Americans are so well informed they don't even catch the irony of such statements.

Iraq is a mixed bag of securing middle eastern oil supplies, not just in Iraq, "fixing it" for Israel, exercising America's big stick which hadn't been wielded for a while, making a bit of money for the good ole boys in the Skull and Bones, a bit of Biblical nonsense and "Leadership", whatever that means.

The fact it didn't produce any of the above, except slipping a wad into Halliburton's back pocket, is proof that this ne'er-do-well President didn't think it would?

I've heard the old "envy" thing from many self centred individuals.

Isn't there just a possibility that people can be jack of self serving, grasping hypocrisy that plays as beneficent well-meaning farce, all at others' expense, and call it for what it is?

btw I was reviewing what you wrote "because Americans don't take offense" and, looking past the popping eyeballs and pulsating veins, I caught this gem:



Guess you won't have to pay back your college dues!

That's right, Obama clenched the nomination today. Well here we go, now nothing is safe from the political banter.

Man, & now I'm not going to be able to watch national news anymore without seeing the constant Obama love dribble...oh wait, nothing has changed.
post #79 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Can we at least say that MS supports legacy code far longer than it should and often to the detriment of its ability to progress their platform?

I guess those are the choices people make. PC & Windows users get continuity and longevity out of both their hardware and software.

We get a sense of superiority.

But then Windows users don't get the ability to browse the Internet, get and send email, word process, do spreadsheets or DTP, use databases etc.

That's just the price they pay for making a bad choice.
post #80 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by gastroboy View Post

I guess those are the choices people make. PC & Windows users get continuity and longevity out of both their hardware and software.

We get a sense of superiority.

But then Windows users don't get the ability to browse the Internet, get and send email, word process, do spreadsheets or DTP, use databases etc.

That's just the price they pay for making a bad choice.

If you're trying to make a point, it's lost on me. Some kind of sarcasm? Or some muddled point?
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