Originally Posted by addabox
Nope, that would be debate on the merits. I think you know that's not what we're talking about, but props for trying to demean the whole idea that sliming is possible, right out of the gate.
Well I had to check considering some of the mentioned predictions in the initial post were very valid criteria to use for selecting a president. If going after someone declaring they are going to be a good or bad leader when running for president is "slime" then we need a tighter definition.
Ya'll sure do like the "under the bus" thing. It gets repeated so metronomically, you'd almost think the phrase had been carefully selected and disseminated as a matter of strategy. But probably every single right wing blogger and pundit on the planet came up with it independently.
Well you watch the guy do it several times and a phrase that matches the actions comes to mind. The fact that it does indeed come to the mind of many in the exact same fashion might be conspiratorial, or it might be a whole bunch of people describing the exact same actions they see.
At any rate, it serves an admirable purpose: having demonized an Obama associate, he has the choice of being made into a virtual surrogate for whatever dreadfulness is in play, if he stands pat, or being an expedient monster, if he "throws them under the bus."
It's a terrifying sight, all the broken and bleeding people Obama has left in his wake, their lives utterly destroyed because Obama callously engineered their crushing.
I don't think anyone has said Obama is bad for tossing Wright, etc under the bus. However the deeper issue is that Obama never assumes any responsibility for knowing what those advocating for him are doing. He claims complete ignorance on it and then tosses away. We've already had the "he was my pastor for twenty years, baptized my kids, married my wife and I, was my spiritual sounding board and inspired one of my books but I really didn't know what the hell he was talking about" bit play in the very skeptical manner it should be treated. Thus we are all lining up for the "she is my wife, I have had two children with her, slept in the same bed as her, and shared a life with her, but I really didn't know what the hell she was talking about or believed" but so that the last strand of credibility can be severed even for the true Obamamaniac.
Always good to have a conversation with a thoughtful, level headed chap.
Why thank you.
Really? The guy that fashioned the bill and walked away from every principle when they became inconvenient is the one that has "credibility'?
Good. Hammer on this one. Make it the center piece. Please.
I think I was pretty clear that McCain doesn't have much if anything to gain from it.
True, although I'm not understanding how cap and trade carbon plans and Trotskyism are ending up in the same neck of the woods. Is this Jubelum's influence?
No that was more addressed at the nationalize the air and rain comment.
Agreed. Obama's relative lack of experience is a legitimate campaign issue, although the fact that their aren't too many jobs that qualify you for being President of the Freakin' US of A make it a weak one, IMO.
Didn't you promise to maim yourself if we ever agreed? I'm still waiting for the video of Shawn drinking his old beer so we can add you to the list.
Obama's going to campaign on the "vote for me or you're a racist dog" platform? Startling.
Racist dog? No. Racist small town, religious, gun owning, backward, waiting for the jobs to come back and in the meantime voting agains their own self-interest because they are so bitter. Yes.
Dude. The "insanely retarded meme" thing was a passing shot. Let it go.
Oh, but it rolls so nicely off the tongue.
We'll see about unscripted debate. My impression is that he's been getting better, and that some of what his opponents like to characterize as stumbling could also be called "thoughtfulness", which, admittedly, has never been a characteristic much in demand by the electorate.
At any rate, the whole "Obama is helpless without a teleprompter" deal is manifestly untrue, and McCain, while affable, comes off as glib and is prone to say, um, untrue-ish things, when he talks off script. Also, he gets irritable and isn't very good at hiding it.
I didn't say he was helpless. I simply said that he performance isn't good enough to leave people happy and unquestioning which is what they seem to be after his speeches.
Be interesting to see how it plays out-- if Obama can't make a good accounting of his intentions in a non-scripted format it will certainly hurt him, but if McCain declares that Iran started WWII and starts throwing things when he's corrected, that not a huge asset either.
Can McCain throw things? I thought he had limited ability to lift his arms?
Originally Posted by franksargent
That's the second time this "meme" has been put forward, other than repeating it, what basis is there for this seemingly specious claim?
I'm trying hard to see it, given the number of debates the Democrats had, are you suggesting these debates were all scripted?
And why would Obama consent to a format that McCain thinks favors him?
Somehow, I like the idea of a debate format where Obama plays the part of Kennedy to McBush's Nixon.
The basis is the fact that Obama clearly lost ground to Clinton after pretty much every debate. The other basis is the fact that Obama holds almost NO press conferences and the one he did hold regarding the Wright matter was very short, and he did very badly in it.
I didn't say the debates were scripted, merely that when Obama had to actually defend his ideas without a teleprompter, he didn't do very well in comparison to the other candidates.
As to why Obama would consent to a format that doesn't favor him, I am not saying he will. The thread is about how they will go after Obama and that is how I think they will go after him. I think McCain is establishing the desire to do this early so later he can talk about how long Obama has been ducking debates and townhalls as a talking point. I"m pretty sure they are already doing that for the last visit to Iraq. I saw something where someone was counting the days since Obama's last visit.
I'm sure you think that McCain will be a sweaty frumpy old man who can't remember where the camera is at, but while not the most charasmatic candidate ever, he clearly has media savvy and also has no problems dealing with press conferences and talking at length. You see McCain ON the Daily Show, On the Ellen Show, etc. Even when he knows he will be hit with some hard questions, jabs, or even jokes, he manages to handle them pretty well.