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Apple now the world's No. 3 smartphone vendor

post #1 of 67
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Apple during the first quarter of 2008 rode the booming smartphone market to sales of more than 1.7 million iPhones, good enough to make it the No. 3 manufacturer of multi-function handsets worldwide, according to a report released Friday by market research firm Gartner.

The Cupertino-based electronics maker ended the quarter with a 5.3 percent share of the global smartphone market, behind Nokia and Research In Motion (RIM), whose sales of 14.58 million and 4.31 million smartphones garnered a 45.2 percent and 13.4 percent share, respectively.

In the US, Apple faired even better by claiming the No. 2 spot overall with a 20 percent share of the market. The iPhone maker, however, remains a distant second to RIM, which maintained its No. 1 US ranking with a share totaling 42 percent.

Overall, Gartner said first quarter worldwide smartphone sales to end users grew 29 percent compared to the same period in 2007, reaching 32.2 million units. The firm added the smartphones accounted for 11 percent of the global mobile device market.

In Europe, Middle East, and Africa, sales of the integrated devices totaled 11.7 million units, a 38.7 percent increase from the first quarter of 2007. Meanwhile, the blistering North American smartphone market saw sales skyrocket by more than 106 percent to 7.3 million units.

"Despite economic concerns, the smartphone market continued to expand in the United States, driven by heavy advertising and strong marketing promotions as more devices reached mass market price points,” said Hugues De La Vergne, principal analyst for mobile terminals research at Gartner. "North American operators are giving these devices strong support, as they provide higher average revenue per unit."



Globally, RIM saw the biggest rise year-over-year, with sales of its BlackBerry handsets more than doubling to reach a growth rate of 107 percent. Nokia took second honors in the growth category with sales of its devices rising more than 25 percent. The biggest loser was Tokyo-based Sharp, whose smartphone sales declined 24 percent to just 1.3 million units.
post #2 of 67
Go, Go Apple!

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They were both wrong.

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One thought he was invincible... the other thought he could fly.

They were both wrong.

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post #3 of 67
And what was it the 'experts' from other phone companies said before Apple launched ...?

This is a re run of on line music sales success ...

Apple will overtake RIM
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post #4 of 67
Apple saw the biggest growth. From 0 to 1.7 million. I'm sure Steve would have no qualms about dividing by zero. That's infinity% growth!
post #5 of 67
This just gave me a cold rush. Anyone else realizes that although Apple is number 3, this place is achieved with ONE MODEL!!! Look at other competitors. They have like 25 different phones and things going on and this took them years.
The people working at apple really know how to invade! LOL Can we hire them to our government?

LOL no...its ok, actually that's not a good idea.

I am very impressed with Apple's goals and achievements!

*tear
hehehehheeh
Apple had me at scrolling
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Apple had me at scrolling
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post #6 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by poke View Post

Apple saw the biggest growth. From 0 to 1.7 million. I'm sure Steve would have no qualms about dividing by zero. That's infinity% growth!

actually if they only sold 1 unit, the growth rate would still be infinity
post #7 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishstick_kitty View Post

actually if they only sold 1 unit, the growth rate would still be infinity

Yes, lets not get too proud yet. Remember, even the Zune had an infinite growth rate after it was introduced...
I could be wrong, but I think it has slowed a bit since then...

Anyway, this report does not get interesting until we see how things go after Monday (or Tuesday in Oz).
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post #8 of 67
How many smart phone vendors are there?
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post #9 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Apple during the first quarter of 2008 rode the booming smartphone market to sales of more than 1.7 million iPhones, good enough to make it the No. 3 manufacturer of multi-function handsets worldwide, according to a report released Friday by market research firm Gartner.

The Cupertino-based electronics maker ended the quarter with a 5.3 percent share of the global smartphone market, behind Nokia and Research In Motion (RIM), whose sales of 14.58 million and 4.31 million smartphones garnered a 45.2 percent and 13.4 percent share, respectively.

In the US, Apple faired even better by claiming the No. 2 spot overall with a 20 percent share of the market. The iPhone maker, however, remains a distant second to RIM, which maintained its No. 1 US ranking with a share totaling 42 percent.

Overall, Gartner said first quarter worldwide smartphone sales to end users grew 29 percent compared to the same period in 2007, reaching 32.2 million units. The firm added the smartphones accounted for 11 percent of the global mobile device market.

In Europe, Middle East, and Africa, sales of the integrated devices totaled 11.7 million units, a 38.7 percent increase from the first quarter of 2007. Meanwhile, the blistering North American smartphone market saw sales skyrocket by more than 106 percent to 7.3 million units.

"Despite economic concerns, the smartphone market continued to expand in the United States, driven by heavy advertising and strong marketing promotions as more devices reached mass market price points,” said Hugues De La Vergne, principal analyst for mobile terminals research at Gartner. "North American operators are giving these devices strong support, as they provide higher average revenue per unit."



Globally, RIM saw the biggest rise year-over-year, with sales of its BlackBerry handsets more than doubling to reach a growth rate of 107 percent. Nokia took second honors in the growth category with sales of its devices rising more than 25 percent. The biggest loser was Tokyo-based Sharp, whose smartphone sales declined 24 percent to just 1.3 million units.

I guess I should check if there is more extensive info from this report available for free to the public, but I would like to see all the other players in the North American market.
HTC, Samsung, Motorola, Palm, etc still sell quite a few smartphones in the US market at least. How awesome is it that Apple has overtaken all of them with one phone model available on one carrier?


Quote:
Originally Posted by aplnub View Post

How many smart phone manufacturers are there?

as I noted above, HTC, Samsung, Motorola, and Palm are other major players in addition to Nokia and RIM.
post #10 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishstick_kitty View Post

actually if they only sold 1 unit, the growth rate would still be infinity

If they'd sold only 1 unit in Q1 2007 their growth rate would have been 172,529,900%. If they maintain this growth into Q2 2008 they'll have sold 2.9 trillion iPhones!

I should totally work for Gartner.
post #11 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by winterspan View Post

I guess I should check if there is more extensive info from this report available for free to the public.

There is not... We're lucky we got what we got =P

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K
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post #12 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bageljoey View Post

Yes, lets not get too proud yet. Remember, even the Zune had an infinite growth rate after it was introduced...
I could be wrong, but I think it has slowed a bit since then..

No! No, I say!!!!
These rates will continue forever!
Infinite growth, year over year. Imagine the profits.

(And after a few quarters of THAT, I think it would be high time to offer dividends!)
post #13 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by iVlad View Post

This just gave me a cold rush. Anyone else realizes that although Apple is number 3, this place is achieved with ONE MODEL!!! Look at other competitors. They have like 25 different phones and things going on and this took them years.

I count 3 different models. Unless you're suggesting that the 4 GB, 8 GB and 16 GB models don't separate the market out into different buying types (which I think is wrong).
post #14 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronbo View Post

No! No, I say!!!!
These rates will continue forever!
Infinite growth, year over year. Imagine the profits.

(And after a few quarters of THAT, I think it would be high time to offer dividends!)

Is that you, George Gilder?

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #15 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

And what was it the 'experts' from other phone companies said before Apple launched ...?

This is a re run of on line music sales success ...

Apple will overtake RIM

Even with RiM's growth and emergence into new markets it does look like the 3G iPhone with v2.0 firmware will over probably overtake their worldwide position within the 2 quarters following its release. Even RiM's US position seems achievable within 4 quarters.

And that was in only 6 countries, at least two of which came aboard during that quarter, I believe. Isn't there between 30 and 40 officials countries offering retailers now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

I count 3 different models. Unless you're suggesting that the 4 GB, 8 GB and 16 GB models don't separate the market out into different buying types (which I think is wrong).

You have a point, and except for Nokia's N95 I don't know if another device that is differed by only its Flash capacity.

Since the 4GB had been discontinued well before calender quarter 01 for 2008 there were only 2 models being sold. That is still impressive considering the number of models being sold by other manufacturers, especially when you consider the excessive diversity of their models---this is what iVlad meant--to capture as most of the market as possible and that most of these mostly are highly subsidized.
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post #16 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Even with RiM's growth and emergence into new markets it does look like the 3G iPhone with v2.0 firmware will over probably overtake their worldwide position within the 2 quarters following its release. Even RiM's US position seems achievable within 4 quarters.

And that was in only 6 countries, at least two of which came aboard during that quarter, I believe. Isn't there between 30 and 40 officials countries offering retailers now?



You have a point, and except for Nokia's N95 I don't know if another device that is differed by only its Flash capacity.

Since the 4GB had been discontinued well before calender quarter 01 for 2008 there were only 2 models being sold. That is still impressive considering the number of models being sold by other manufacturers, especially when you consider the excessive diversity of their models---this is what iVlad meant--to capture as most of the market as possible and that most of these mostly are highly subsidized.

well, Apple seems to be priming the pump so to speak with new markets in countries that weren't previously selling the iPhone. Add to that a lot of talk about a new generation 3G iPhone with potentially a lot more features/storage, plus the supply dropping off of the first generation models to make room for the 3G iPhone. If they sold about 10 Million of the first generation in a less than a year, I think it is safe to say that Apple will probably crush the numbers for the rest of the year. There is a lot of pent up demand for the 3G iPhone, plus people are waiting to see what features they'll be adding. It wouldn't surprise me if they sold over 15 Million from the introduction to the end of the year. Apple seems to always be conservative as to what they project vs. reality.
post #17 of 67
It just goes to show how including US sales figures completely skews world sales figures. I'm beginning to think that the US phone market is such an annomoly in the whole scheme of things that statistics should be shown with and without the US data included. There's just something very strange about the US mobile phone market that does not tally with the rest of the world at all.
post #18 of 67
I hate to admit it, but I have a Nokia smart phone. I can't afford a $400 iPhone... And I can't up/downgrade to AT & T
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post #19 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank View Post

If they sold about 10 Million of the first generation in a less than a year, I think it is safe to say that Apple will probably crush the numbers for the rest of the year. There is a lot of pent up demand for the 3G iPhone, plus people are waiting to see what features they'll be adding. It wouldn't surprise me if they sold over 15 Million from the introduction to the end of the year. Apple seems to always be conservative as to what they project vs. reality.

I hadn't thought of that. If they can sell 1.7M in a quarter with fairly common knowledge that a 3G version will come within 3-6 months, imagine what they can do with a 3G version, with exchange support, 3rd-party apps, and about 8x the the countries.
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post #20 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Even with RiM's growth and emergence into new markets it does look like the 3G iPhone with v2.0 firmware will over probably overtake their worldwide position within the 2 quarters following its release. Even RiM's US position seems achievable within 4 quarters.

And that was in only 6 countries, at least two of which came aboard during that quarter, I believe. Isn't there between 30 and 40 officials countries offering retailers now?

The iphone is already available in the whole world.

It is indefensible to argue that the iphone has any significant US market share at all --- when more than half of them are shipped overseas.

You can't have it both ways. As more and more countries have official iphone distribution deals --- the number of US "missing" iphones will decrease. That means one thing --- the iphone's US market share will fall to the real level.
post #21 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrochester View Post

It just goes to show how including US sales figures completely skews world sales figures. I'm beginning to think that the US phone market is such an annomoly in the whole scheme of things that statistics should be shown with and without the US data included. There's just something very strange about the US mobile phone market that does not tally with the rest of the world at all.

I think that it's the other way around.

Americans buy smartphones because they want to use smartphone features. Europeans buy S60 smartphones because they get them for next to nothing with contract --- but they don't care it's a smartphone or not.

Might as well exclude the millions of Nokia S60 phones from the tally because they aren't really used as smartphones.
post #22 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

The iphone is already available in the whole world.

It is indefensible to argue that the iphone has any significant US market share at all --- when more than half of them are shipped overseas.

You can't have it both ways. As more and more countries have official iphone distribution deals --- the number of US "missing" iphones will decrease. That means one thing --- the iphone's US market share will fall to the real level.

You are correct. I can have an item from any country sold to me in any country if I really tried, but that doesn't change the numbers for the quarter as they measure sales in the US for that quarter.

Sure, the percentage of devices sold to foreign markets will decrease substantially, but unless we can accurately quantify that for each carrier (even though it's presumably smaller for others there are tourists that are buying in the US because of the weakened dollar) the number of the units sold in the US still holds true. Are you suggesting that we throw the entire measure out?

PS: It will be interesting to see how Apple fares in after the 3G iPhone hits in all the contracted countries.
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post #23 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

The iphone is already available in the whole world.

Yeah, as a crippled/jailbroken device that a few high-end nerds can put to use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

It is indefensible to argue that the iphone has any significant US market share at all --- when more than half of them are shipped overseas.

Stop using exaggerated words like "indefensible" that only detract from your points. Even assuming what you say is true (link please?), half of 20% is 10%, which is not in"significant."

Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

You can't have it both ways. As more and more countries have official iphone distribution deals --- the number of US "missing" iphones will decrease. That means one thing --- the iphone's US market share will fall to the real level.

All such predictions are worth the paper they are written on. We'll have to see, won't we.
post #24 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

And what was it the 'experts' from other phone companies said before Apple launched ...?

"From other phone companies?"

Heh heh. What about from this forum...... and, even after (well after) Apple launched....

How long have companies like Nokia been in this business? I'll be impressed (truly) when someone like a Nokia can get, say, 5.3% of the PMP business. (And, Apple has been in that business for only seven years.)
post #25 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Sure, the percentage of devices sold to foreign markets will decrease substantially, but unless we can accurately quantify that for each carrier (even though it's presumably smaller for others there are tourists that are buying in the US because of the weakened dollar) the number of the units sold in the US still holds true. Are you suggesting that we throw the entire measure out?

Most of the Blackberry users are enterprise users --- the devices stay in the US. More than half of the US mobile phone market is CDMA --- the devices stay in the US.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Stop using exaggerated words like "indefensible" that only detract from your points. Even assuming what you say is true (link please?), half of 20% is 10%, which is not in"significant."

When you have 2 million iphones sold in the US in Q4 and 900K activation --- that's less than half. When you have 1.7 million iphone sold in the US in Q1 and AT&T CFO took 4.75 months to announce an additional 500K activation (that's a run rate of 315K iphone activation in Q1) --- that's less than 20%.

If the study is correct and the iphone has a 20% of the market ---- then the US smartphone market is less than 2 million units per quarter. I don't think that the US market is that small.

A 10% market share means that Apple is well behind RIM and Windows Mobile in the US --- and about the same size as Palm. It's not much of a market when you are the same size as Palm. But if the ratio is 20% of the iphones stay in the US is true --- then that 20% becomes a 4% market share.

Quote:
All such predictions are worth the paper they are written on. We'll have to see, won't we.

It's not much of a prediction, it's just a factual issue. As more and more countries are selling iphones officially --- then the unofficial "missing" iphone numbers will decrease --- and we will have a more accurate picture of the US iphone market share in the US.
post #26 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

Most of the Blackberry users are enterprise users --- the devices stay in the US. More than half of the US mobile phone market is CDMA --- the devices stay in the US.

When you have 2 million iphones sold in the US in Q4 and 900K activation --- that's less than half. When you have 1.7 million iphone sold in the US in Q1 and AT&T CFO took 4.75 months to announce an additional 500K activation (that's a run rate of 315K iphone activation in Q1) --- that's less than 20%.

{...]

You really make replying to you difficult because it always has to start by clearing up what have left out. You mention CDMA in the first paragraph as if it's the only network type in the US. Of course Europeans aren't going to buy a CDMA phone in the US to take back home.

Then you mention your numbers about AT&T activationswhich were fuzzy to begin withas the only possible way the iPhone could be activated in the US when you know perfectly well that many are used on T-Mobile's and other GSM networks because you've used that argument before to state that AT&T's iPhone activations are low and thus not a money maker for the iPhone, despite the new iPhone activation monthly profits are 50% higher than all the Go Plans in that same quarter by your numbers.

If you can't look at the US as a US sale and thus adding to marketshare and revenue gains for the US, then you should ignore that aspect all together and look at the global marketshare in which Apple claimed a #3 rank in its 3rd full quarter of sales despite the early adopters already buying in, being EDGE, and having a 3G version imminent in 2008, even by word of the CEO of Apple.
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post #27 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post


A 10% market share means that Apple is well behind RIM and Windows Mobile in the US --- and about the same size as Palm. It's not much of a market when you are the same size as Palm.

Samab, are you arguing for the sake of arguing? You can make an inteligent case that the American numbers are overestimated. Fine.
But to say that American use is not significant is just a little odd. You're talking about a market that Apple JUST ENTERED. A market that many inteligent people said a year ago Apple would have trouble understanding and breaking into. But you would have a hard time convincing many at this stage that that 10% is where Apple will be in 12 months. If they are stuck down with Palm next year you can bump this post in all our faces.


Also, you seem to be arguing that because iPhones are already bought in the US, altered, then shipped to other countries through a grey market at inflated prices, that the arrival of iPhones to those countries through normal retail chanels with carrier partnerships (in 3G form no less) will not change sales to those countries significantly.

Yeah. You have two good positions there...
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post #28 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

You really make replying to you difficult because it always has to start by clearing up what have left out. You mention CDMA in the first paragraph as if it's the only network type in the US. Of course Europeans aren't going to buy a CDMA phone in the US to take back home.

Then you mention your numbers about AT&T activationswhich were fuzzy to begin withas the only possible way the iPhone could be activated in the US when you know perfectly well that many are used on T-Mobile's and other GSM networks because you've used that argument before to state that AT&T's iPhone activations are low and thus not a money maker for the iPhone, despite the new iPhone activation monthly profits are 50% higher than all the Go Plans in that same quarter by your numbers.

If you can't look at the US as a US sale and thus adding to marketshare and revenue gains for the US, then you should ignore that aspect all together and look at the global marketshare in which Apple claimed a #3 rank in its 3rd full quarter of sales despite the early adopters already buying in, being EDGE, and having a 3G version imminent in 2008, even by word of the CEO of Apple.

Where did I say that CDMA is the only mobile technology in the US? I said more than half of the mobile phone users are on CDMA in the US --- that's a fact for a year now.

http://www.cellular-news.com/story/24950.php

If there is a lot of iphones in the T-Mobile USA network --- don't you think that T-Mobile would advertise it as a PR stunt?

It's a problem for AT&T to target the extreme low end and extreme high end of the market. It's like the American car industry --- Ford sells cheap Ford cars and expensive Jaguars. The money is in the middle --- Honda Accords.

I do look at the worldwide market numbers --- but with 1 caveat --- the iphone is not going to spike in sales just because it's going to be available in 60 other countries (because it is already available in those 60 other countries right now).
post #29 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bageljoey View Post

Also, you seem to be arguing that because iPhones are already bought in the US, altered, then shipped to other countries through a grey market at inflated prices, that the arrival of iPhones to those countries through normal retail chanels with carrier partnerships (in 3G form no less) will not change sales to those countries significantly.

Unlocked grey market iphones aren't sold at inflated prices at all. An European can buy an American iphone, pay somebody to unlocked it in the UK, Germany and France --- and still be cheaper than buying the official iphone in UK, Germany and France.
post #30 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

Most of the Blackberry users are enterprise users

Do you have a source to validate that? I don't know anyone with BB's, including the 10 BB's in my company that are enterprise users.

The iPhone is going to be the #1 smart phone one year from now or earlier. Write it down. It is filtering down from top corporate exec's into upper management and will soon be making its way into middle management and sales. I see this happening over the past 4 months like a tidal wave. If Apple would have supported Verizon, it would have been the #1 phone right now but such is the Steve.
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post #31 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by aplnub View Post

Do you have a source to validate that? I don't know anyone with BB's, including the 10 BB's in my company that are enterprise users.

The iPhone is going to be the #1 smart phone one year from now or earlier. Write it down. It is filtering down from top corporate exec's into upper management and will soon be making its way into middle management and sales. I see this happening over the past 4 months like a tidal wave. If Apple would have supported Verizon, it would have been the #1 phone right now but such is the Steve.

If the iphone becomes number 1 smartphone --- then it has the same kind of problems as Nokia smartphones --- nobody actually use them as smartphones.

The problem resides entirely on how they define smartphones in their studies.
post #32 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

Where did I say that CDMA is the only mobile technology in the US? I said more than half of the mobile phone users are on CDMA in the US --- that's a fact for a year now.

You replied to my comment which was a reply to your comment about shipping overseas, which has no bearing on CDMA devices. Hence my comment "You mention CDMA in the first paragraph as if it's the only network type in the US."

Quote:
I do look at the worldwide market numbers --- but with 1 caveat --- the iphone is not going to spike in sales just because it's going to be available in 60 other countries (because it is already available in those 60 other countries right now).

You really don't think that a non-jailbroken and unlocked EDGE device that can only be had by through a black market at an inflated price is not going to fare better than a HSDPA device had at a lower price through white market retailers? I'll need some explaining to even begin to see your POV there.
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post #33 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

Unlocked grey market iphones aren't sold at inflated prices at all. An European can buy an American iphone, pay somebody to unlocked it in the UK, Germany and France --- and still be cheaper than buying the official iphone in UK, Germany and France.

OK, but you only refuted one of my points and you contine with the same argument
Quote:
the iphone is not going to spike in sales just because it's going to be available in 60 other countries (because it is already available in those 60 other countries right now).

So here, I fixed it: you seem to be arguing that because iPhones are already bought in the US, altered, then shipped to other countries through a grey market, that the arrival of iPhones to those countries through normal retail chanels with carrier partnerships (in 3G form no less) will not change sales to those countries significantly.

To add to my argument, these grey market phones are sold without warentees, advertizing, certainty of updates and (again) without 3G.

Really, do you believe that there will be no change in iPhone sales between last year and this year or should you be put in the troll/ignore category?
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post #34 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

If the iphone becomes number 1 smartphone --- then it has the same kind of problems as Nokia smartphones --- nobody actually use them as smartphones.

The problem resides entirely on how they define smartphones in their studies.

Regardless how people use them, if the Corvette is the #1 selling sports car, it is the #1 selling sports car regardless if it sits in a garage or at the drag strip.

Defining smart phones isn't really that hard. Of course there is a gray area but I will say it will dominate the palms and bb's.
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post #35 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

If the iphone becomes number 1 smartphone --- then it has the same kind of problems as Nokia smartphones --- nobody actually use them as smartphones.

The problem resides entirely on how they define smartphones in their studies.

These are some of the problems I have with your arguments:

1) Nobody is an absolute. That implies that not even one person uses it as a smartphone, which can't be true.

2) You then state it depends on how you define it. Do you not see the dichotomy between your two statements in confusing. We can either define it ourselves, you can state your definition for your argument or we can use the definition enacted by others, but a definition is required to make any point.
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post #36 of 67
I can see apple EASILY reaching 10 - 20% without problems or roadblocks. Seeing how iphone is selling so bad right now and get to 5% stage.
Bad in terms of WorldWide Market Share, literally zero penetration in business unit yet, the 3G iphone simple quad trible their Market share.

But anything more would means a little more magic from SJ. Since Nokia and RIM doesn't look stupid, bloat and dull company at all.
post #37 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

- the iphone is not going to spike in sales just because it's going to be available in 60 other countries.....

Sometimes you really can be quite ridiculous.
post #38 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by aplnub View Post

Defining smart phones isn't really that hard. Of course there is a gray area but I will say it will dominate the palms and bb's.

This can get dicey. If OS X iPhone v2.0 doesn't have cut and paste capabilities, and/or a Word and Excel app then many people won't define it as a smartphone. While some would say that is being too specific.

On the flip side, Some say that having a web browser makes it a smartphone. While others say that their free flip phone can also view webpages... of a sort, which is not being specific enough in my book.

So then they say they have a full web browsing experience on the iPhone, which is then countered by stating that without Flash (and perhaps Java) it can't be a full experience.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #39 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by piot View Post

Sometimes you really can be quite ridiculous.

Yeah, he left when pressed to explain ridiculous positions...
Progress is a comfortable disease
--e.e.c.
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Progress is a comfortable disease
--e.e.c.
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post #40 of 67
Just look at the iphone launch in Europe --- did the numbers spike up a lot in Europe? No.

The presence or absence of 3G didn't affect Europe's numbers at all. People buy a phone because it's cheap, not because it's a 3G phone. 58% of Verizon Wireless' customers have a 3G phone.

http://telephonyonline.com/wireless/...revenues-0428/

The only way that the numbers are going to spike is if there is a massive handset subsidy involved.
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