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3G iPhone's firmware purportedly leaked, hints at assisted GPS - Page 2

post #41 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by moveteam View Post

No you can't. EDGE in Denmark (large cities like Copenhagen) the speeds range from 400-600 Kbps, while HSPDA is 7.2 mbit (rumored 3G iPhone), soon up to 20 MBit (which the new iPhone doesn't support)

the iphone will support up to 42Mbit hsdpa speeds!
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post #42 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keda View Post

I had no idea what A-GPS was, so I Googled.

Here is Wikipedia's description:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGPS

According to this wiki, some A-GPS devices require a cell connection to function. Based on the leaked specs, will the 3G iPhone's GPS continue to function, albeit more slowly, without a cell tower connection?

if there's no internet connection, wifi or EDGE/UMTS, then it will take as long as the gps chips needs to download the data transmitted with the gps signal from the satellites... normally it takes a very long time 30-120seconds... the more obstruction to the satellites, the slower it will be...
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post #43 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by success View Post

yeah because REAL exploring is done in the car.

I don't think he means what you mean. Just riding around the US can be an exploration. It's not hard to get lost outside the beltways. Take a wrong turn, and you could be ten miles, or even fifty miles in the wrong direction. A GPS will let you know when that happens, and give you the next correct turn no matter how many wrong turns you make.

That's not to say it's perfect, but it's pretty damn good. Anyone who says that they always know where they are is either BSing, or never goes anywhere unusual, where they have never been before, or never makes a wrong turn.

Hard to believe.
post #44 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by smokeonit View Post

if there's no internet connection, wifi or EDGE/UMTS, then it will take as long as the gps chips needs to download the data transmitted with the gps signal from the satellites... normally it takes a very long time 30-120seconds... the more obstruction to the satellites, the slower it will be...

It also depends on the receiver. The more satellites it can lock to, the faster it does it.
post #45 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

It also depends on the receiver. The more satellites it can lock to, the faster it does it.

of course!
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post #46 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by onceuponamac View Post

has fcc approval come through? all these rumors about boxes being received by resellers (albeit non-us) - i'm assuming vendors in US wouldn't be receiving boxes if fcc approval has not been issued?

There is a procedure where at least some aspects of approval are withheld from the public, and I think they can include delayed announcement of approval too. It costs more money, but Apple can afford it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

Apple gets paid a lot of money for "ipod/iphone certified" accessories like docks.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/tech...y/4229530.html

If you want digital output out of ipod dock, you need to pay Apple money licensing fees to get access to the ipod's authentication chip.

http://www.stereophile.com/news/010408wadia/

What you aren't saying, at least not directly (it's in one of your links), is that fully implementing all relevant Bluetooth features would undermine the dock business. I think it's very unfortunate. I don't want to buy a wireless headphone dongle for an iphone when the iphone should have the software necessary to make it work. Apple does have a bit of a track record for this too, ipods can record audio, but they won't unless they're hacked or you add an expensive and potentially noise inducing dongle to turn it on.
post #47 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

There is a procedure where at least some aspects of approval are withheld from the public, and I think they can include delayed announcement of approval too. It costs more money, but Apple can afford it.

fcc approval can be withheld until the day the actual device hits the market, but that same day approval has to be posted by the fcc... @ the latest... apple did that a couple of times in the past...
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post #48 of 102
Since T-Mobile USA and its iPhone customers are in a bit of a quandary, I propose a potential option that would allow their iPhone customers to obtain HSDPA speeds without having the fully compatible HSDPA radio spectrum.

Wikipedia states that, "EDGE can carry data speeds up to 236.8 kbit/s for 4 timeslots (theoretical maximum is 473.6 kbit/s for 8 timeslots) in packet mode and will therefore meet the International Telecommunications Union's requirement for a 3G network..." That is a higher theoretical maximum than HSDPA's 384kbps theoretical maximum for uploading. And even at the lower 236.8kbps it is still fast enough to HSDPA's upload rate to maintain iPhone users on T-Mobile's network.

What I am proposing is that—once T-Mobile USA gets their 3G network up and running—T-Mobile customers can use the the compatible 3G 2100MHz band for downloading data and their compatible EDGE bands for uploading. On the surface, this appears to me as only a firmware update. GSM and UMTS radios already run independently and are used with in conjunction with each other. Similar to when one is using Safari via WiFi on the iPhone while also on a call; I believe this is how 3G capable devices are able to browse the internet while making a call.

The Pros I see here (if possible) are that using EDGE for the upload could reduce the UMTS chip's load thus making the device more power efficient. It may also be slightly faster processing the data as there are now an independent chips sharing the uplink and downlink data loads.

The Cons I see here (again, if possible) that the system may have issues shuffling both tasks adequately across each platform, though the iPhone does a great job of mixing WiFi and GSM and switching between EDGE and WIFI as needed. If you were using your GSM bands for uploading you would loose the ability to make calls while downloading at 3G speeds over HSDPA.



Disclaimer: My knowledge of cell tech is quite recent and is mostly beget by the clever posters on AI schooling me since the iPhone was announced. If my premise is completely hare-brained feel free to berate me all you want, but I encourage you to make clear how and why it is incorrect.
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post #49 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

What I am proposing is that T-Mobile customers can use the the compatible 3G 2100MHz band for downloading data and their compatible EDGE bands for uploading.

I don't know the specific nature of the data packets getting sent and received for mobile devices, but if it is true TCP/IP-based then the routing for such a scenario could be a nightmare. Asymmetric connections (across different network links) can run into all sorts of trouble with packet acknowledgments, etc.
post #50 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by onceuponamac View Post

has fcc approval come through? all these rumors about boxes being received by resellers (albeit non-us) - i'm assuming vendors in US wouldn't be receiving boxes if fcc approval has not been issued?

Once the next iPhone comes out I'll be able to deduce more, but based on my findings the entire approval process is clandestine. It is only the official approval that is public records (and even then some records can be kept secret for indefinite periods if it contains IP).

Based on the reports of the previous iPhone, the FCC ID was known to Apple and their certified independent testers long before they ever submitted anything to the FCC. The current iPhone's FCC ID is BCGA1203 appears to be known as far back as 06-FEB-2007 but wasn't submitted to the FCC until 08-MAR-2007. The cover letter to the FCC from Apple contains the FCC ID so I'm surmising that first 3 or 4 letters are a company code and the last 5 or 4 characters account for the device number which increases by a factor of one for each new FCC submission. So we are to expect an FCC ID for the 3G iPhone of BCGA120x.
http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/r...='BCGA1203'
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post #51 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by smokeonit View Post

fcc approval can be withheld until the day the actual device hits the market, but that same day approval has to be posted by the fcc... @ the latest... apple did that a couple of times in the past...

That's about what I would expect. When the product is available for sale, there's no real reason to not post the approval.
post #52 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by onceuponamac View Post

has fcc approval come through? all these rumors about boxes being received by resellers (albeit non-us) - i'm assuming vendors in US wouldn't be receiving boxes if fcc approval has not been issued?

There are work arounds. Like beating the FCC people up!
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #53 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The Pros I see here (if possible) are that using EDGE for the upload could reduce the UMTS chip's load thus making the device more power efficient. It may also be slightly faster processing the data as there are now an independent chips sharing the uplink and downlink data loads.[/I]

Not technically possible. Your phone handoffs from the 2G network to the 3G network.
post #54 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by retroneo View Post

At that stage the 1900/2100 pairing most commonly used globally for UMTS was already in use. Similarly GSM's 900/1800MHz was in use so the US uses 850/1900.

I think there's a bit of confusion here. There isn't really a 'pairing' between those 3G bands. There are uplink and downlink ranges which aren't necessarily in the same 'hundreds' number. The bands are as follows and each of them is not related to the others in any way:

850 - used in the US, Australia
1900 - used in the US, South America
2100 - used in Europe, Australia, Japan, and many other places
1700 - used by T-Mobile in the US only.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UMTS_frequency_bands for the full details and their proper names
post #55 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by smokeonit View Post

the iphone will support up to 42Mbit hsdpa speeds!

Considers HSDPA supports a maximum of 14.4Mbits/sec, I very much doubt it.
post #56 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Since T-Mobile USA and its iPhone customers are in a bit of a quandary, I propose a potential option that would allow their iPhone customers to obtain HSDPA speeds without having the fully compatible HSDPA radio spectrum.

Wikipedia states that, "EDGE can carry data speeds up to 236.8 kbit/s for 4 timeslots (theoretical maximum is 473.6 kbit/s for 8 timeslots) in packet mode and will therefore meet the International Telecommunications Union's requirement for a 3G network..." That is a higher theoretical maximum than HSDPA's 384kbps theoretical maximum for uploading. And even at the lower 236.8kbps it is still fast enough to HSDPA's upload rate to maintain iPhone users on T-Mobile's network.

What I am proposing is that—once T-Mobile USA gets their 3G network up and running—T-Mobile customers can use the the compatible 3G 2100MHz band for downloading data and their compatible EDGE bands for uploading. On the surface, this appears to me as only a firmware update. GSM and UMTS radios already run independently and are used with in conjunction with each other. Similar to when one is using Safari via WiFi on the iPhone while also on a call; I believe this is how 3G capable devices are able to browse the internet while making a call.

The Pros I see here (if possible) are that using EDGE for the upload could reduce the UMTS chip's load thus making the device more power efficient. It may also be slightly faster processing the data as there are now an independent chips sharing the uplink and downlink data loads.

The Cons I see here (again, if possible) that the system may have issues shuffling both tasks adequately across each platform, though the iPhone does a great job of mixing WiFi and GSM and switching between EDGE and WIFI as needed. If you were using your GSM bands for uploading you would loose the ability to make calls while downloading at 3G speeds over HSDPA.



Disclaimer: My knowledge of cell tech is quite recent and is mostly beget by the clever posters on AI schooling me since the iPhone was announced. If my premise is completely hare-brained feel free to berate me all you want, but I encourage you to make clear how and why it is incorrect.

This won't work. 2G and 3G is not independent (they use the same antenna, the same chips, etc). It isn't supported by the GSM standards, T Mobile use a different frequency to the 'regular' 2100. And endless other technical and software problems.
post #57 of 102
The next time somebody hits you with that "Macs are more expensive" line and you tell them: "Not any more. They buy the same commodity parts as everybody else;" just remember: this is the downside of that. You get all these leaks about the newest products, so when Apple actually announces them, no matter how earth-shattering they may be, everybody goes: "That's Old News! What else you got?" and the stock goes down.
post #58 of 102
Hey guys, check this out!!



here's the link for more images

http://www.crunchgear.com/2008/06/06...eck-and-check/
post #59 of 102
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post #60 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by PG4G View Post

They aren't even believable fakes.

well, guess what, its from the same tipster as the nano fatty, no one believed it was real, and we all know how that went.
post #61 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeasar View Post

well, guess what, its from the same tipster as the nano fatty, no one believed it was real, and we all know how that went.

The same tipster website or the same person?

Personally, despite some odd text and the lack of a hold button on the red iPhone, some of the verbage sounds very believable for a poster in an AT&T store. The images of the people look like something we see on Apple's website all the time, not a fakers photoshopping job.

Video chat only working across AT&T customers while in 3G also sounds believable, when I would imagine most would say that video chatting would work across all types of iChat users.

Also, iChat seems like a given to me. As well as, MSN protocols being included to connect with the majority in pretty much every other country but the US, which mainly uses AIM. This may give rise to the previous patent filing, the rumour that .Mac is getting a huge overhaul and will be on Windows. Would Apple also include iChat with MSN protocols? Could ITunes 8 be the key for all this?
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post #62 of 102
A "similar" tipster on the same website.

The iChat is gona be on Wifi, not too sure if its *only* on Wifi. And Apple is gona release a iChat for windows, needing XP SP2 or Vista.

Its all in the photos, take a closer look.
post #63 of 102
Very good questions and i like your thinking... PLEASE BRING MSN TO iPHONE!!!
post #64 of 102
I have a question about Crackberry and iPhone.

Friend says that the Crackberry is better cause it has push email. Is that the same thing for upcoming 3G iphone and does it even matter for the person who isn't working for a corporation where they might be using some type of corporate mail exchange server?


What features does/will the 3G iPhone have that the Crackberry won't?

Thanks
post #65 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by success View Post

I have a question about Crackberry and iPhone.

Friend says that the Crackberry is better cause it has push email. Is that the same thing for upcoming 3G iphone and does it even matter for the person who isn't working for a corporation where they might be using some type of corporate mail exchange server?

I thought iPhone already does push email. That said, I'm not terribly discerning on what the differences are on email services between Blackberry and iPhone. iPhone will get Exchange support with firmware version 2.
post #66 of 102
the new operating system for all iPhones will have push email for Microsoft exchange just like crackberrys (unless you are a business, or run a server with exchange, very little use)

iPhone currently has push Yahoo! email.

I can't find many crackberries that look this stylish, have a great internet browser, and an iPod insider (full feature media player I mean, not crap stuff that everyone else shambles together)
post #67 of 102
Oh, and with the iChat thing, I currently doubt iChat on iPhone.

Why?

Isn't AIM part of iChat? As far as I recall, AOL AIM was a demoed app at the SDK launch.

Why get AOL in there for AIM if it was being re-integrated with iChat now?
post #68 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by success View Post

I have a question about Crackberry and iPhone.
Friend says that the Crackberry is better cause it has push email. Is that the same thing for upcoming 3G iphone and does it even matter for the person who isn't working for a corporation where they might be using some type of corporate mail exchange server?
What features does/will the 3G iPhone have that the Crackberry won't?
Thanks

Forget the new hardware on the 3G iPhone, Apple will be releasing OS X iPhone v2.0 for free to all iPhone owners. It will have native Exchange support so push email, sync contact and calenders and remote wipe will work if you you are connected to an Exchange server.

If you have Yahoo mail you can also get push, though I am unsure how reliable that is. There are also rumours of .Mac mail getting push, and I wonder if Gmail won't be too far down the line.

There are some differences between the way the iPhone gets pushed emails and the way Blackberries get push email which is another area of contention as to which is better.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Push_e-mail edit: Pipped by PG$g and JeffDM.

If you want to see a demonstration of how it works and what will be on v2.0 check out the keynote from the March 6th event...

http://www.apple.com/quicktime/qtv/iphoneroadmap/
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post #69 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by PG4G View Post

Oh, and with the iChat thing, I currently doubt iChat on iPhone.

Why?

Isn't AIM part of iChat? As far as I recall, AOL AIM was a demoed app at the SDK launch.

Why get AOL in there for AIM if it was being re-integrated with iChat now?

iChat is what Apple uses to do video conferencing. If it has a front camera and does video conferencing then it makes sense that they brand it iChat. It also makes sense that they have a Windows iChat client.
post #70 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by PG4G View Post

Oh, and with the iChat thing, I currently doubt iChat on iPhone.
Why?
Isn't AIM part of iChat? As far as I recall, AOL AIM was a demoed app at the SDK launch.
Why get AOL in there for AIM if it was being re-integrated with iChat now?

The problem with an AIM app (or any 3rd-party IM client) is that by the rules of the SDK no 3rd-party app can run in the background. This makes an IM app difficult to use. For instance, AIM can store chats on the server so you'd have to keep logging back in to see any messages if you weren't in the app currently. You'd get no notification of a new message. Or if the app was suspended by an incoming call and the server didn't realize this an important message could be sent to your device but never received.

The only options Apple has is to let AIM run in the background which would probably upset some developers or to make the chat client native as iChat with the AIM protocols per a recent patent filing. The latter seems the most likely to me.

The other issue is that AIM is not the most popular IM in the world. I think MSN is, so it would behoove Apple to either add MSN support (which the patent also noted) or to make iChat for Windows as a way to pulling all Windows users that own iPhones over to iChat and away from MSN. Not sure which they'd do here.
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post #71 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by success View Post

I have a question about Crackberry and iPhone.

Friend says that the Crackberry is better cause it has push email. Is that the same thing for upcoming 3G iphone and does it even matter for the person who isn't working for a corporation where they might be using some type of corporate mail exchange server?


What features does/will the 3G iPhone have that the Crackberry won't?

Thanks

iPhone has push email, I think if you watch the March 6th event on the Apple website (or youtube) Microsoft Exchange is demoed etc. etc.

MSN on iPhone would be good, however I think countries outside of the US would benefit more from due to them using it more e.g the UK
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post #72 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

...MSN protocols being included to connect with the majority in pretty much every other country but the US, which mainly uses AIM.

Off topic, I guess, but can this be even remotely true? I live in the US, and I must have had a hundred people in the last couple of years ask me if I had Yahoo IM ("Do You Yahoo?" is synonymous with: "Do you use an Instant Messenger?") and maybe two ask me if I had MSN, but I have never, in my life, had anyone ask me if I had AOL! Are they still in business?
post #73 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac-sochist View Post

Off topic, I guess, but can this be even remotely true? I live in the US, and I must have had a hundred people in the last couple of years ask me if I had Yahoo IM ("Do You Yahoo?" is synonymous with: "Do you use an Instant Messenger?") and maybe two ask me if I had MSN, but I have never, in my life, had anyone ask me if I had AOL! Are they still in business?

I hope you mean AIM, not AOL. Perhaps it does vary by region or some other demographic, but I only have one person on my lsit that uses Yahoo. Everyone else I know in the US uses AIM, and everyone outside the US uses MSN, with a growing number of GTalk users across the globe.

Not exactly the must up to list. I guess people don't that much.

US IM Marketshare for late 2006
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instant...ging#User_base
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post #74 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I hope you mean AIM, not AOL. Perhaps it does vary by region or some other demographic, but I only have one person on my lsit that uses Yahoo. Everyone else I know in the US uses AIM, and everyone outside the US uses MSN, with a growing number of GTalk users across the globe.
US IM Marketshare for late 2006

I don't think it matters that I live in Seattle, but maybe it's because I fit in the old-fart demographic, I don't know. Just goes to show: don't trust "anecdotal" evidence!

P.S.: Your link uses the term AOL, too, so I'm not alone. I guess AIM is all that's left of AOL?
post #75 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac-sochist View Post

Just goes to show: don't trust "anecdotal" evidence!

P.S.: Your link uses the term AOL, too, so I'm not alone. I guess AIM is all that's left of AOL?

I just wanted to make sure we are on the same page because AOL and AOL Instant Messenger are not the same thing,

As for the old stats on the links I supplied above, I hope someone knows where to find more recent information. IM Clients tend to change often and with MySpace and Facebook offering a web-based client and GTalk and other Jabber clients coming out things maybe changing drastically.
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post #76 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by merdhead View Post

Considers HSDPA supports a maximum of 14.4Mbits/sec, I very much doubt it.

i think you need to read up on the future of hsdpa...
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post #77 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The problem with an AIM app (or any 3rd-party IM client) is that by the rules of the SDK no 3rd-party app can run in the background. This makes an IM app difficult to use. For instance, AIM can store chats on the server so you'd have to keep logging back in to see any messages if you weren't in the app currently. You'd get no notification of a new message. Or if the app was suspended by an incoming call and the server didn't realize this an important message could be sent to your device but never received.

The only options Apple has is to let AIM run in the background which would probably upset some developers or to make the chat client native as iChat with the AIM protocols per a recent patent filing. The latter seems the most likely to me.

The other issue is that AIM is not the most popular IM in the world. I think MSN is, so it would behoove Apple to either add MSN support (which the patent also noted) or to make iChat for Windows as a way to pulling all Windows users that own iPhones over to iChat and away from MSN. Not sure which they'd do here.

ichatAV wil run on the iphone, not aim... big difference...!!!
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post #78 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by smokeonit View Post

i think you need to read up on the future of hsdpa...

Its been so coined HSPA+ or HSPA Evolved to describe this newer, evolved technology. You could state that UTMS or WCDMA will be able to achieve speeds up to 42Mbps, but HSDPA seems to be clearly defined as having a current maximum or 14.4Mbps/384Kbps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smokeonit View Post

ichatAV wil run on the iphone, not aim... big difference...!!!

Bg difference how? I am describing why the standalone AIM client demoed will not make it, but iChat will.
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post #79 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

IM Clients tend to change often and with MySpace and Facebook offering a web-based client and GTalk and other Jabber clients coming out things maybe changing drastically.

That's really what I meant with the "old fart" crack--I'm sure GTalk and Jabber-compatible clients will pick up speed fast among the (younger) gearhead cognoscenti, but fossils like me are more familiar with the old Big Three. Yeah, I know AIM is still in business--I use Adium, so I know all the IMs they support. I was just trying to sound more ignorant than I am. (Tough job!)
post #80 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Its been so coined HSPA+ or HSPA Evolved to describe this newer, evolved technology. You could state that UTMS or WCDMA will be able to achieve speeds up to 42Mbps, but HSDPA seems to be clearly defined as having a current maximum or 14.4Mbps/384Kbps.


Bg difference how? I am describing why the standalone AIM client demoed will not make it, but iChat will.

the iphone is capable of the faster hsdpa+ speeds...

ichatAV is different since it's video chat works... as aim never got video chat to work with a good codec and no audio... a video chat w/o audio isn't worth much... and video quality has to be very good, not just video somehow streamed to the other party.. that's why ichatAV is used by so many people for video chat and other video applications in leopard... like remote desktop and video streaming...
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