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Emigration - leaving the UK

post #1 of 65
6/7/08 at 1:18am
Thread Starter 
I've had enough and seen enough. The UK is well and truly fucked, Its time to go. I'd leave tomorrow, but to be honest, its a bit scary venturing into the unknown, so I need to make a plan.

I'd like to buy a mobile home, and travel down through France, Spain - maybe i'll visit segovius in Barcelona!, and end up somewhere in Portugal. Its got to be a warm place, because I really dont like the cold!

Has anyone done something similar? What sort of preperations do you need to make, I understand that within the EU, you can pretty much go and work wherever you like, but I have been looking around the official websites, and it gives me the impression you still have to get things sorted out before you go, you cant really just get in your car and drive off.

im thinking about leaving about March next year, which gives me the best part of a year to sort this out.

Any help and assistance, or real life experiences would be very much appreciated.
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post #2 of 65
6/7/08 at 9:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcUK View Post

I've had enough and seen enough. The UK is well and truly fucked, Its time to go. I'd leave tomorrow, but to be honest, its a bit scary venturing into the unknown, so I need to make a plan.

I'd like to buy a mobile home, and travel down through France, Spain - maybe i'll visit segovius in Barcelona!, and end up somewhere in Portugal. Its got to be a warm place, because I really dont like the cold!

Has anyone done something similar? What sort of preperations do you need to make, I understand that within the EU, you can pretty much go and work wherever you like, but I have been looking around the official websites, and it gives me the impression you still have to get things sorted out before you go, you cant really just get in your car and drive off.

im thinking about leaving about March next year, which gives me the best part of a year to sort this out.

Any help and assistance, or real life experiences would be very much appreciated.

I know nothing about the EU -- but you'll be able to think more objectively about what you're doing with a nice chunk of cash to fall back on.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #3 of 65
6/7/08 at 10:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcUK View Post

I've had enough and seen enough. The UK is well and truly fucked, Its time to go. I'd leave tomorrow, but to be honest, its a bit scary venturing into the unknown, so I need to make a plan..

What's going down in the UK? What's with the outbreak of paranoia and the Orwellization(?) of society there? I was there in summer 2005 for a couple of weeks, and I was amazed at not only the forests of surveillance cameras, no matter where you were... but also the public's seeming indifference to the decay.

Since the UK is so terminally screwed up, why is the thought of visiting the other western democracies you quote, so "scary"?
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #4 of 65
6/7/08 at 10:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcUK View Post

Any help and assistance, or real life experiences would be very much appreciated.

The information is easily found online (google: country_name residency eu). In most cases it just means having proof of EU citizenship, proof of current residency and proof of some kind of employment. You'll use these to get a long-term residency permit after 3 months.
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post #5 of 65
6/7/08 at 11:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcUK View Post

I've had enough and seen enough. The UK is well and truly fucked, Its time to go.

It's not that bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcUK View Post

I really dont like the cold!

Same here, I'd love to live in a warm country and France or Spain sounds great. Personally, I'd prefer France.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcUK View Post

Has anyone done something similar? What sort of preperations do you need to make, I understand that within the EU, you can pretty much go and work wherever you like, but I have been looking around the official websites, and it gives me the impression you still have to get things sorted out before you go, you cant really just get in your car and drive off.

Although I don't think the UK is really all that bad, I don't particularly like it. But it kinda depends on where you stay and what circumstances you are in. If you live in an area where you have drunken idiots just irritating you all the time, it gets a bit frustrating. Add to that the masses of generally unattractive yet still oddly uptight women and it's easy to see why you'd want to leave. It's a fairly depressing country.

I've actually thought about doing the same thing many times and I checked out some sites for information on it and they generally don't give you that much helpful info. Even asking at a local job center, they just wanted to put me off leaving the country by suggesting working abroad would be far worse than working in the UK.

Anyway, I came to the conclusion you did that just setting off isn't the best way to go about things. What I would recommend is that you take some long working holidays in places that you'd like to go. Just book a holiday to the South of France and instead of lying on the beach, look around at what jobs are going and if you see an opportunity for work, just apply for it. If you get the job then you can work for as long as you are allowed and then if you are happy, start your official emigration.

Don't wait until next year, take a cheap vacation this year. If you are working, you can take even two weeks holiday leave and get a cheap Ryanair or EasyJet flight for under £100 to France. Maybe travel around a bit. Even if you just do two weeks in France and then maybe at Christmas time or whenever your next holiday is, check out Spain. Just try and focus on towns where the kind of work you want to do is in high demand.

I reckon that one day I'd like to do the same thing. Now that the Summer is finally here in the UK, it's so nice that I really don't want to see another Winter again. The job I have now is fairly secure for another year or two at least so I'm going to stick at it to at least build up a decent amount of work experience. You do not want to go to a country where you don't speak the language well and apply for jobs you have little to no experience in.

As mentioned, having some savings behind you is also a good thing. I'd suggest £5,000-10,000 at least. General living expenses come to about £600 a month at the cheapest so you want to be able to survive long enough to have a good attempt at living where and how you want but if it all goes wrong, have enough to get yourself back on your feet again.
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post #6 of 65
6/7/08 at 12:26pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

What's going down in the UK? What's with the outbreak of paranoia and the Orwellization(?) of society there? I was there in summer 2005 for a couple of weeks, and I was amazed at not only the forests of surveillance cameras, no matter where you were... but also the public's seeming indifference to the decay.

Since the UK is so terminally screwed up, why is the thought of visiting the other western democracies you quote, so "scary"?

partly, I just want an adventure, but

The UK is economically screwed beyond belief, this doesn't really affect me personally, because I've foreseen this coming for years and planned accordingly.

My smallish town has seen a steady influx of Eastern European migrants, Yet this is not my problem - im more than happy for them to be here - yet there is a growing backlash against it in the community. Its ugly, and im not at all proud to associate with small minded racists, sadly this includes people I have considered friends.

The democracy is a joke, there is no democracy, just elected dictatorship. We have become the 52nd state of America.

We are taxed to the hilt. I dont have a problem with high taxation as such, but only in Britain could you be taxed to high heaven and have nothing at all to show for it in terms of social development, infrastructure. The people planning and running this country are the worst bunch of wasteful fuckwits you could ever imagine. We pay an arm and leg to have near 3rd world facilities.

We pay more for everything, every corperation on this planet believes that the British should pay a 20% premium on everything, just for um....being british.

Athough I was initially sceptical 10 years ago, having become educated and learned instead of repeating ignorance fed to me in youth, I really think that Britain should have gone straight in with the EU. I have felt this way for a good 5-6 years. Sadly, I have to say that the majority of people here are old, white, conservative, racist narrow minded 'little islanders', who have not noticed that the British Empire doesn't rule the world anymore - thank God.

Everyone here is so caught up in a rat-race, they have become total morons. Absolutely stupid moronic little fucks. I personally dont know a single person who has a fucking clue what is going on in the world.

I just saw on the TV an article apparently in the newspaper, that we are now so busy trying to stave off the inevitable economic collapse, that sales of oranges are falling - because people are too busy to peel them! That might be stupid enough in itself, if you find it in the realms of plausability - but then it went on to say, that the technique of peeling an orange has not been handed down from parent to child!!!! I mean if this wasn't stupid enough in itself - the young population is now so thick that they cant work it out for themselves - and then you have the issue, that if this isn't actually news - or even true - this is the state of the intelligence of the nation, that this becomes 'NEWS'

I can quite believe it though, looking from my vantage point over the centre of this small town, gangs of hoodie youths with an IQ of 50 roaming the streets night after night doing nothing but causing havoc and trouble. Kicking the crap out of eachother, smashing bottles in the road, kicking cars, standing in the road giving abuse to oncoming traffic... And they're about 12 years old ranging to about 25.

We were not doing that when we were that age - not in this town anyway, and really - it was not 'that' long ago. If this is the future of the country and the level of decay, then my generation was the last to actually be worth a damn. And to be honest, I have doubts about how successful my generation are as human beings. There is no future in a country where it is a badge of honour to be as stupid and ignorant as possible.

But like you say, nobody gives a damn that it is going down the drain. I think people are so wrapped up, petrified of loosing the houses they could not afford in the first place, that no-one has any idea of whats going on.

And as far as im concerned - thats good, because like America, the UK has had 15 years of wild excesses and it has turned the population into fuckwits. Abused by everyone and everything, the UK has welcomed the abuse and begged for more, developing stockholm syndrome to boot.

A devastating national blow, ie the forthcoming economic depression will do an enormous favour to Britain when we go broke, but I had no part in this and im not going to sink with the rest of them.

Im not proud to be British, I dont consider myself British any more than I'd consider myself Chinese. I dont like this country, I dont like these people. Its time to move on.
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post #7 of 65
6/7/08 at 12:38pm
Welcome to Earth. Guess what: nowhere is perfect. The best you can do is prioritize, and pick a place to live that meets those priorities.

From the sound of it, you'll never be happy until you have a private island, so either make that happen or get used to the fact that nobody cares you. With that said, the best way to make people care about you is to take you tax contribution elsewhere. Good luck (honestly).
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post #8 of 65
6/7/08 at 12:48pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

It's not that bad.

Anyway, I came to the conclusion you did that just setting off isn't the best way to go about things.


I reckon that one day I'd like to do the same thing. Now that the Summer is finally here in the UK, it's so nice that I really don't want to see another Winter again. The job I have now is fairly secure for another year or two at least so I'm going to stick at it to at least build up a decent amount of work experience. You do not want to go to a country where you don't speak the language well and apply for jobs you have little to no experience in.

As mentioned, having some savings behind you is also a good thing. I'd suggest £5,000-10,000 at least. General living expenses come to about £600 a month at the cheapest so you want to be able to survive long enough to have a good attempt at living where and how you want but if it all goes wrong, have enough to get yourself back on your feet again.

I would leave tomorrow, but as you say, its good to have a plan. Like yourself, im pretty sure my job is going to be safe for a few years. My company is on the verge of securing a large engineering contract, which I have been closely involved in developing, so I want to stick around for a bit to get that off the ground, and as you say, its good to have some savings - I should have a fair amount of financial leeway by next year.

but it is scary in a way, going from this small town where nothing has changed forever - to getting in a car and driving a few thousand miles to wherever you may find yourself and starting a different life in a strange country.
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post #9 of 65
6/7/08 at 1:00pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splinemodel View Post

Welcome to Earth. Guess what: nowhere is perfect. The best you can do is prioritize, and pick a place to live that meets those priorities.

From the sound of it, you'll never be happy until you have a private island, so either make that happen or get used to the fact that nobody cares you. With that said, the best way to make people care about you is to take you tax contribution elsewhere. Good luck (honestly).

really, its not welcome to Earth, its welcome to America.

America, closely being caught up by the UK, is the most vile, greedy, selfish country on this Earth. I dont want anything to do with either.

If im being naive in this estimation, and I find every other place to be the same, I would rather die on the road looking for something I believe in, than be a part of the scum.
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post #10 of 65
6/7/08 at 1:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcUK View Post

I would rather die on the road looking for something I believe in, than be a part of the scum.

You know you're just going to wind up in a campground in Glastonbury, right? Right?
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post #11 of 65
6/7/08 at 2:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcUK View Post

but it is scary in a way, going from this small town where nothing has changed forever - to getting in a car and driving a few thousand miles to wherever you may find yourself and starting a different life in a strange country.

Ha! Scary, my eye -- in America we call that "moving."

Seriously, even if you don't have a plan, just don't burn your bridges and give it a whirl. The year before I got married, I moved cross-country to a town where I literally knew no one, rented a room and worked my trade, high-anxiety stuff, but I don't regret any of it. Meet knew people, drop into a different culture, all that sunny stuff -- like Yeager said -- just take 'er up there, and wring 'er out a little bit.

It's also a good way of getting your head together if you're looking to finish off any **ehem** bad habits you might have -- worked for me.

Quote:
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.
- Mark Twain

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #12 of 65
6/7/08 at 6:29pm
Honestly, there's only so much advice you can listen to, you'll never be ready unless you just get out there and do it. You'll find your own way, seriously - you will - and if you don't have it in you to make it then you can always come home.

It's a learning experience and if you expect not to make any mistake s then you've missed the point.

Go find the world
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post #13 of 65
6/7/08 at 7:17pm
Asia's a good place to be, and you can easily make a living teaching English 25 hours a week. If you have a degree and take the TEFL, you can earn a very good salary plus housing.

Why not become FILTH? Failed In London, Try Hongkong.

It's not as easy as it used to be, before 1997, when British citizens didn't need a degree to work here, but if you can get a sponsor for teaching English, you're set.
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post #14 of 65
6/8/08 at 2:09am
Thread Starter 
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Originally Posted by dmz View Post

Ha! Scary, my eye -- in America we call that "moving."

Seriously, even if you don't have a plan, just don't burn your bridges and give it a whirl. The year before I got married, I moved cross-country to a town where I literally knew no one, rented a room and worked my trade, high-anxiety stuff, but I don't regret any of it. Meet knew people, drop into a different culture, all that sunny stuff -- like Yeager said -- just take 'er up there, and wring 'er out a little bit.

It's also a good way of getting your head together if you're looking to finish off any **ehem** bad habits you might have -- worked for me.

Just had a look on google maps, a trip to the algarve via Barcelona is less than 2000 miles, I know thats just cross country for you, but were used to smaller trips here in UK,

Got me thinking, I have a friend in the Netherlands I could go and see, and then I could go down through Germany and switzerland, spain and then Portugal, even then its less than 2500 miles.

It gets more exciting the more I look into it.

And my only bad habit is smoking, Im working on that, got my bike fixed up and been out training, hopefully this will hurt my lungs so bad when I start increasing the distances that I will scare myself in quitting. Starting tomorrow its a 20mile a day cycle to and from work for the rest of the summer.

I reckon I need to be 100% fit and healthy, just incase I have to run away a bit quick from the Swiss axe-murderers!
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post #15 of 65
6/8/08 at 8:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmz View Post

Ha! Scary, my eye -- in America we call that "moving."

It doesn't really count in the US, though. Nine times out of ten you'll be moving 2000 miles to someplace pretty much indistinguishable from where you left, give or take a few mountains or a body of water.
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post #16 of 65
6/8/08 at 6:34pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giant View Post

It doesn't really count in the US, though. Nine times out of ten you'll be moving 2000 miles to someplace pretty much indistinguishable from where you left, give or take a few mountains or a body of water.

I really disagree - you think Atlanta is the same as Seattle? Colorado the same as Florida? New Jersey the same as Texas? No way.

And Marc - your description of the UK is worse than pretty much anywhere I have been in the US, with the possible exception of Newark, NJ. Maybe you should move to the US, it is a lot nicer here than you think it is. But if you want to move to a really great place - try British Columbia.
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post #17 of 65
6/8/08 at 6:45pm
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Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

I really disagree - you think Atlanta is the same as Seattle? Colorado the same as Florida? New Jersey the same as Texas? No way.

And Marc - your description of the UK is worse than pretty much anywhere I have been in the US, with the possible exception of Newark, NJ. Maybe you should move to the US, it is a lot nicer here than you think it is. But if you want to move to a really great place - try British Columbia.

I'll second the BC endorsement.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #18 of 65
6/8/08 at 7:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

I really disagree - you think Atlanta is the same as Seattle? Colorado the same as Florida? New Jersey the same as Texas? No way.

But they all are pretty much the same. I've moved almost all the way across the country, and in all three states I've lived in, everyone has spoken English as the primary language, used the same currency, had the same laws and government structure. They've all had the same stripmalls and supermarkets and steering wheels on the same side of the car and drove on the same side of the road.
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post #19 of 65
6/8/08 at 7:40pm
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Originally Posted by midwinter View Post

But they all are pretty much the same. I've moved almost all the way across the country, and in all three states I've lived in, everyone has spoken English as the primary language, used the same currency, had the same laws and government structure. They've all had the same stripmalls and supermarkets and steering wheels on the same side of the car and drove on the same side of the road.

Yeah, but some places don't have Krispy Kreme. Dunkin Donuts is like a foreign land!
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post #20 of 65
6/8/08 at 8:19pm
The trades are much more strict North to South, and the unions are much more pervasive as well. Going from Dallas to Seattle, I found you were expected to have gone through an apprenticeship program.

The directness, and the expectations are higher as well, if your tags are out, the first time you are walking away from your car in the Costco parking lot, you're going to hear about it. The white guilt is next to nonexistent, too. Things are done a certain way, lawns are expected to be a certain way, things are more regimented than in the South. (Although that'll probably vanish in a generation.)

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #21 of 65
6/8/08 at 8:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcUK View Post

really, its not welcome to Earth, its welcome to America.

America, closely being caught up by the UK, is the most vile, greedy, selfish country on this Earth. I dont want anything to do with either.

If im being naive in this estimation, and I find every other place to be the same, I would rather die on the road looking for something I believe in, than be a part of the scum.

Trust me, we don't need you here if you're as nasty tempered a bugger as you seem on these boards. Stay away.

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post #22 of 65
6/9/08 at 2:38am
My partner and I are of the same mind. I've had enough of the increasing government surveillance and control in our lives.

We're thinking of moving to Hong Kong in a few years - he's originally from there and I've always wanted to go.

I want to go. While we're still allowed to.
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post #23 of 65
6/9/08 at 4:02am
I find it a little odd that you're sick of government surveillance and controll of people's lives so wanna move to ... China Isn't that kind of out of the frying pan into the fire?
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post #24 of 65
6/9/08 at 5:25am
Yes, so what does that tell you? :P

Actually, HK is a Special Admin Region, meaning they effectively have their own government, laws etc. It was proposed as the "One Country, Two Systems" idea when the UK's lease on HK was over. The only things the PRC really handle is national defense and immigration. I can live with that.

In the UK, we are one of the most watched populaces on the face of the planet and there's a definite atmosphere of fear and promotion of irrational suspicion. In evidence, i quote those ridiculous posters that are all over London, urging the public to report people they see taking photos, using mobile phones, or neighbours acting "out of the ordinary".

As a photographer, I find the photography ones the most ludicrous. If a terrorist is taking photos for the purpose of information gathering, they're not going to be doing it in an obvious fashion with a Nikon D3 and a giant lens, are they?

But as a resident of the UK, the ones I've been told about encouraging people to report "out of the ordinary" neighbours worry me. V for Vendetta... here we come.
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post #25 of 65
6/9/08 at 6:44am
The UK is fine. You just need to move further away from the influence of London. That just kind of sucks the life out of the country.
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post #26 of 65
6/9/08 at 7:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_zebra View Post

Yes, so what does that tell you? :P

Actually, HK is a Special Admin Region, meaning they effectively have their own government, laws etc. It was proposed as the "One Country, Two Systems" idea when the UK's lease on HK was over. The only things the PRC really handle is national defense and immigration. I can live with that.

Yea I know all that I just don't actually believe it.
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post #27 of 65
6/9/08 at 8:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mydo View Post

Yea I know all that I just don't actually believe it.

My partner has many years experience of living there. He says nothing major really changed after the handover from the UK to the PRC in July 1997, though for a while up to it people were VERY apprehensive, but there wasn't actually any change to personal freedoms or the way of life. In many ways, by some accounts, it got better.

Actually, there's an interesting experiment going on in HK just now. By 2017, the populace will be able to elect their legislature. If that's successful, then by 2027, they will be able to elect the Chief Executive (the person who runs HK, current appointed by the PRC).

I currently live in Glasgow, and I think if Scotland gains independence, there's the possibility I'll stay here because then there will be some semblance of hope. However, with the way things are, I see a march towards totalitarianism getting worse every day. If it's not people stopped getting on planes because they have a picture of a gun on their shirt (cos we all know thats how terrorists are getting firearms on planes), it's bullshit tax plans that are designed to worst hit people who earn less, meanwhile simultaneously EVERYTHING in everyday life being taxed (now there's talk of taxing bags from the supermarket!).

I agree things are much worse in London. If they wanted to film a sequel to V for Vendetta or 1984, they need not change anything. The stage is already set. Glasgow seems much more free though I saw a protest being broken up recently by police... on instructions from people from the Church of Scientology who were unhappy a protest was taking place. Free speech and the right to peaceful demonstration? I don't think so.

I don't know how longer my patience will hold out.
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post #28 of 65
6/9/08 at 8:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcUK View Post

I've had enough and seen enough. The UK is well and truly fucked, ....


You mean Proper Fucked?
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post #29 of 65
6/9/08 at 8:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_zebra View Post

Yes, so what does that tell you? :P

Actually, HK is a Special Admin Region, meaning they effectively have their own government, laws etc. It was proposed as the "One Country, Two Systems" idea when the UK's lease on HK was over. The only things the PRC really handle is national defense and immigration. I can live with that.

In the UK, we are one of the most watched populaces on the face of the planet and there's a definite atmosphere of fear and promotion of irrational suspicion. In evidence, i quote those ridiculous posters that are all over London, urging the public to report people they see taking photos, using mobile phones, or neighbours acting "out of the ordinary".

As a photographer, I find the photography ones the most ludicrous. If a terrorist is taking photos for the purpose of information gathering, they're not going to be doing it in an obvious fashion with a Nikon D3 and a giant lens, are they?

But as a resident of the UK, the ones I've been told about encouraging people to report "out of the ordinary" neighbours worry me. V for Vendetta... here we come.

That reminds me of the movie Children Of Men. Not too far off, huh?
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post #30 of 65
6/9/08 at 8:53am
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Originally Posted by His Dudeness View Post

That reminds me of the movie Children Of Men. Not too far off, huh?

Exactly. A phenomenal amount of people leave the UK (and indeed, the European Union) every year. It probably won't be long until they wake up to that and simply prevent us from leaving.
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post #31 of 65
6/9/08 at 5:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

I really disagree - you think Atlanta is the same as Seattle? Colorado the same as Florida? New Jersey the same as Texas? No way.

I didn't say same, I said pretty much indistinguishable. And guess what: they are. There aren't immediately obvious cultural differences between any of them (aside from some people having a drawl); you'd need background knowledge. After a while you might notice different chains and after even longer, maybe varying levels of different political attitudes.
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post #32 of 65
6/9/08 at 6:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_zebra View Post

My partner has many years experience of living there. He says nothing major really changed after the handover from the UK to the PRC in July 1997, though for a while up to it people were VERY apprehensive, but there wasn't actually any change to personal freedoms or the way of life. In many ways, by some accounts, it got better.

Actually, there's an interesting experiment going on in HK just now. By 2017, the populace will be able to elect their legislature. If that's successful, then by 2027, they will be able to elect the Chief Executive (the person who runs HK, current appointed by the PRC).

Yea as far as he knows everything is great. Waiting patiently for more freedom in 2027 sounds like a utopia.
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post #33 of 65
6/9/08 at 6:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcUK View Post

really, its not welcome to Earth, its welcome to America.

America, closely being caught up by the UK, is the most vile, greedy, selfish country on this Earth. I dont want anything to do with either.

If im being naive in this estimation, and I find every other place to be the same, I would rather die on the road looking for something I believe in, than be a part of the scum.

Obviously, you haven't done much traveling. Maybe you've been to the happy nations in continental europe that can afford to protect their economies because they don't have to pay for defense or disaster protection (US & UK do it for them), but you've never been anywhere outside of these lucky nations. If I'm wrong and you have ventured beyond, it's clear you've had your head in the sand the whole way. The further you get away from dependence on the US, the further you get away from modernity. Maybe that's what you're seeking, maybe you can be satisfied by the pleasant nothings of continental western europe, or maybe a culture reversal in the far east is what you crave. But, nonetheless, there's no way to have it all.
Cat: the other white meat
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Cat: the other white meat
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post #34 of 65
6/9/08 at 7:00pm
  • e1618978
  • will burn in the Fiery Pit of Hell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by giant View Post

I didn't say same, I said pretty much indistinguishable. And guess what: they are. There aren't immediately obvious cultural differences between any of them (aside from some people having a drawl); you'd need background knowledge. After a while you might notice different chains and after even longer, maybe varying levels of different political attitudes.

Midwinter was talking about "which side of the road you drive on" and stuff - the cultural differences between, say, New Orleans and Salt Lake City are much more profound than any of the things he listed except language. And English gets pretty different in the south - when I first moved here I absolutely could not figure out a lot of the stuff that they were saying. "Libbity Faomiga" is "Liberty Farm and Garden Store", and "Waggado" is "Walker Auto Parts".

We have the same currency, but so does Europe. I think that the US is about as culturally diverse as the EU.
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
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45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
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post #35 of 65
6/9/08 at 7:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

Midwinter was talking about "which side of the road you drive on" and stuff - the cultural differences between, say, New Orleans and Salt Lake City are much more profound than any of the things he listed except language.

Not really. Sure, there's more poverty in New Orleans, but it's not remarkably different (or even at all noticeably different) than many neighborhoods here in Chicago. The french quarter has some weird architecture near the bars, but not quite like the difference between, say, an Italian town on the Mediterranean and London.

I've been in Salt Lake City multiple times and it looks *exactly* like every other US city its size, so much so that it frequently comes to mind as an example of bland Americana.

Quote:
And English gets pretty different in the south - when I first moved here I absolutely could not figure out a lot of the stuff that they were saying.

I spent a good chunk of my late teens in the southern US, primarily Louisiana, Georgia and Texas, most of that time traveling off the beaten path. Beyond the drawl, substantial language differences weren't particularly noticeable and were never beyond what I encounter with any slang in any city. I understand there is the extreme example of a minority in louisiana who speak creole (wikipedia says 0.24% at home), but it's an example of the exception in the "nine times out of ten," assuming you even encounter it while you're there.
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post #36 of 65
6/9/08 at 7:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by midwinter View Post

But they all are pretty much the same. I've moved almost all the way across the country, and in all three states I've lived in, everyone has spoken English as the primary language, used the same currency, had the same laws and government structure. They've all had the same stripmalls and supermarkets and steering wheels on the same side of the car and drove on the same side of the road.

I would suggest you come down to So Cal. I haven't been asked for pesos yet, but I have conducted entire transactions in Spanish. I'm not talking about neighborhood stores, I'm talking Walmart.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #37 of 65
6/9/08 at 7:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

I would suggest you come down to So Cal. I haven't been asked for pesos yet, but I have conducted entire transactions in Spanish. I'm not talking about neighborhood stores, I'm talking Walmart.

Happens here in Chicago. And Texas. Florida. Still strip malls, supermarkets, chain stores, subdivisions, etc, in those areas too.

The US has some beautiful swaths, nature-wise, but culturally it's largely consistent.
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post #38 of 65
6/9/08 at 8:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

I would suggest you come down to So Cal. I haven't been asked for pesos yet, but I have conducted entire transactions in Spanish. I'm not talking about neighborhood stores, I'm talking Walmart.

The three languages of the next century are Chinese, Spanish and English. One should have a functional command of at least two of those.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #39 of 65
6/9/08 at 8:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

The three languages of the next century are Chinese, Spanish and English. One should have a functional command of at least two of those.

Slightly OT: something I've noticed recently is that some of the most interesting business schools are in the spanish speaking world (there are three top-ranking business schools in Barcelona alone) and there are a notable number of international spanish speaking students in top-tier US business schools. I wouldn't look at the US to see who will be benefiting from that trend.
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post #40 of 65
6/9/08 at 9:32pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

The three languages of the next century are Chinese, Spanish and English. One should have a functional command of at least two of those.

Is there a good online resource for learning spanish?
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