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Apple unveils the all new iPhone 3G - Page 4

post #121 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

If a 50% price cut is not aggressive then I don't know what else is!! Beside, Lets talk when something official comes out from AT&T or Apple regarding the $10 extra.

Wow. You just don't get it. Read the discussion. It's all there. The price has gone up it's official. Why do you bother coming to this forum if you don't read the posts, or at least the posts of the person you're replying to. It doesn't make you look good.
post #122 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by philipm View Post

I hope they don't keep dropping the price at this rate. My novel in which the iPhone plays a bit part relies on one being a slightly pricey purchase.

Looks like your plot has already been surpassed by the inevitable march of technology.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #123 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by razorpit View Post

I didn't see any mention of a task manager. It appears even Mobile Me (which looks fantastic by the way) completely overlooks this important feature. What gives? Does Apple think we don't do anything important enough to keep a list of what needs to be done?

There will be endless ToDo / outliner / GTD apps.

I'm looking forward* to Things from http://www.culturedcode.com/things/



(* provided O2 / Apple UK don't screw up on pricing)
post #124 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by merdhead View Post

Yep. NO need to assume, see: http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/0...ata/index.html

Wow! That is affirmative.
http://www.att.com/gen/press-room?pi...rticleid=25791
Quote:
Originally Posted by jongleur View Post

Melgross, the "new" iPhone is only a point release over the original. No major improvements beyond the 3G to allow it on to more networks (albeit faster networks).

The only way it could be on more networks is if it came with CDMA radios, too.

Quote:
The Snow Leopard teaser is more important. The announcement that didn't occur is a internet mobile platform that has the functionality of a full OSX device in a mobile form factor that is more useful size than a phone.

How is it you are knowledgeable of an "announcement that didn't occur"? BTW, everything that is known about Snow Leopard clearly states that it is for Macs, not some tablet device.


Quote:
Originally Posted by echosonic View Post

Not gonna buy it. NO WAY. Jobs farked me with a $599 price tag. Then he farked me by dropping it to $399. Then he tried to un-fark me when I farking complained about his farking me twice already by offering me a $100 gift certificate to spend on more farking crap in his store. Now, if I am lucky, I might get $150 out my current iPhone on ebay. So, Steve, fark you. I'll finish serving my time in AT&T, and then unlock and head back to Verizon. I mean really, no farking front camera? I don't give a flying fark about 3G. Seriously, could not care less. I want video chat, WhatTheFark?

You should have been aware that electronic devices fall in price rather quickly as well as pricing falling to stimulate sales. If you have a problem with this you should not buy electronics and/or not be an early adopter of them. You are the only one to blame.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

Amen to that. AI was so bad during the keynote that I just went over to Engadget for the live coverage... no hiccups over there.

Me too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

That high? I dunno. The early teardowns I saw for the iPhone (a year ago) indicated a materials cost of around $215... and many of the parts have declined in price since then. There are some better parts in the 3G iPhone, even so, 3G chipsets are not that terribly expensive. If the cost to carriers is $650-800, the carriers are getting soaked.

Don't forget the R&D cost sfor both HW and SW. That makes a huge difference in this type of product, which will restrict many companies from even beginning to compete on Apple's level. Though it does look like Nokia may be taking the iPhone seriously now.[/QUOTE]

Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

ALL RIGHT! In after hours trading, AAPL has rebounded back up to $182.45.

I think the coming days should be kind, unless the overall economic situation/oil prices tank stocks in general, hard.

I was betting on it falling below $176.50. So far my plan isn't working.
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post #125 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

They increased the thickness from 0.46" up to 0.48"... a 0.02" difference. No one will ever notice it, or be able to tell the diff.


.

Not even third party iPhone case makers? \

Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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post #126 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

Yah, but its a bit frustrating... the 'sweet spot', i.e. the thinnest phones with good camera performance, seems to be 15-17mm: the N82, Viewty, K850i, etc. A bit thicker than the iPhone, but still not what you'd call a 'thick' phone.

I'd be sweet to see an iPhone variant that was more multimedia-centered, and dared to be a touch thicker. And, as a bonus, lots more room for a bigger battery.

I don't think it needs to be thicker. 3.2mp cameras are pretty universal now in the newer slim phones like the SE W890i which is 9.9mm thick and is 3G and has a front facing camera.

I'm mildly disappointed that the iPhone 3G camera didn't improve but the rest of the hardware got the right improvements. Perhaps next year we'll get the whole phone eh?

It's now up to the 2.0 software changes which were glossed over quickly (I hope) and how it integrates with IMAP mail for me. I might end up giving MobileMe a try even if it solves the problem of sharing calendars and appointments amongst my family and company on multiple Macs and phones. Oh, and an O2 iPhone Business tariff or PAYG would be useful too.
post #127 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rot'nApple View Post

Not even third party iPhone case makers? \

Since it's thinner on all edges, it appears to have a significantly reduced circumference making it fit looser in soft cases.
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post #128 of 288
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I was betting on it falling below $176.50. So far my plan isn't working.


(Bill Clinton voice): I feel your pain.



.
Cut-copy-paste, MMS, landscape keyboard, video-recording, voice-calling, and more... FINALLY
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post #129 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by merdhead View Post

Wow. You just don't get it. Read the discussion. It's all there. The price has gone up it's official. Why do you bother coming to this forum if you don't read the posts, or at least the posts of the person you're replying to. It doesn't make you look good.

Just seen it. I really don't have time going through 4 pages of posts. I guess you also read that Apple is no longer getting revenues from AT&T (If you already mentioned that, then my apology). AT&T is actually paying Apple $200 for each iPhone. So, no matter how much the iPhone cost, AT&T will offset the the monthly fees to cover what they paid to Apple.

While we are talking about current and future cost, don't forget to take into consideration the current money value over the 2 years and the taxes you pay for the upfront $200 you will find out that you actually saved some money
post #130 of 288
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign View Post

I don't think it needs to be thicker. 3.2mp cameras are pretty universal now in the newer slim phones like the SE W890i which is 9.9mm thick and is 3G and has a front facing camera.

How are the pics with that one?


Quote:
I'm mildly disappointed that the iPhone 3G camera didn't improve but the rest of the hardware got the right improvements. Perhaps next year we'll get the whole phone eh?

LOL. True dat.


.
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post #131 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

Just seen it. I really don't have time going through 4 pages of posts. I guess you also read that Apple is no longer getting revenues from AT&T (If you already mentioned that, then my apology). AT&T is actually paying Apple $200 for each iPhone. So, no matter how much the iPhone cost, AT&T will offset the the monthly fees to cover what they paid to Apple.

While we are talking about current and future cost, don't forget to take into consideration the current money value over the 2 years and the taxes you pay for the upfront $200 you will find out that you actually saved some money

Yep, that's exactly what I've already said, except that I posit that AT&T are paying Apple much more. If the 'retail' cost of the phone is around $800 then we can assume AT&T is paying around $600. Less the $240 extra charges then we have to assume that AT&T is getting nailed for around $300+, which is comparable with what most phone subsidies work out to in the US apparently (ref NYTimes article).

It all makes perfect sense.
post #132 of 288
Great phone. Great price. Great features. But one thing:

July 11th????

Fuck. What's another 30 days I guess. Of course I'm traveling that day too. Maybe I can pick one up in the morning if I'm lucky.
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post #133 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by merdhead View Post

Thicker is not better. It's a negative. You like having your phone bigger?

Well yes a thicker iPhone reminds me of other things that come to hand. Really though 20 thousands isn't that much and it does look like they have a much better battery life.

Dave
post #134 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Great phone. Great price. Great features. But one thing:

July 11th????

Fuck. What's another 30 days I guess.

That's a bit of what I was thinking. There haven't been any for sale for maybe a month already.
post #135 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by icfireball View Post

That's simply a matter of a software update, which could happen at any time. And because of the iPhone accounting model, it would be free.

I think the iPhone sales accounting model (subscription accounting) was based upon the
continuing shared revenue from AT&T. If there is truly no more revenue sharing, I
am not convinced Apple would continue the same accounting model for sales of the
3G iPhones. Therefore, I am not certain future iPhone OS updates would be free.
post #136 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by jongleur View Post

Melgross, the "new" iPhone is only a point release over the original. No major improvements beyond the 3G to allow it on to more networks (albeit faster networks).

The Snow Leopard teaser is more important. The announcement that didn't occur is a internet mobile platform that has the functionality of a full OSX device in a mobile form factor that is more useful size than a phone.

Bingo!
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post #137 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post

How are the pics with that one?

I've not seen pics yet and a brief flickr search got me 6-7 blurry pics. It was more an example though of what low end thin phones have. IIRC the newer Nokia slim phones (well, slim for Nokia anyway) have 3.2mp minimum too.

As I said, mild disappointment. I'll just use it as an excuse to buy that Ricoh GRDII I've been fancying.
post #138 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I was betting on it falling below $176.50. So far my plan isn't working.

Don't worry. Your plan is Cramer's plan and he and his stooges will be doing
everything they can to make it work. The long period of iPhone unavailability
will probably cause the June quarter earnings to be light, so there will be
a bunch of doom and gloom articles on the Street.com driving the stock
down. Cramer will issue a strong buy sometime in the fall, and you can get
back in.
post #139 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by quinney View Post

Don't worry. Your plan is Cramer's plan and he and his stooges will be doing everything they can to make it work. The long period of iPhone unavailability
will probably cause the June quarter earnings to be light, so there will be
a bunch of doom and gloom articles on the Street.com driving the stock
down. Cramer will issue a strong buy sometime in the fall, and you can get
back in.

I like Cramer, I even subscribe to his podcast, but I tend to go against him on everything tech. In this case, I hope he is right and Apple falls to $120 again. But I am a little scared now.
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post #140 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Well yes a thicker iPhone reminds me of other things that come to hand. Really though 20 thousands isn't that much and it does look like they have a much better battery life.

Dave

Yes, it's true, it's not much thicker, but the battery life isn't fantastically better, only about 25% on 2G. Still 10 hours is pretty good talk time. But Apple have done a pretty poor job of the 3G talk time. A comparable phone like the Nokia 6220 Classic has a 3G/2G ratio of 70%, while Apple's is 50%. Goes to show that Apple is behind the 8 ball when it comes to analog and RF design.

Ref: http://www.forum.nokia.com/devices/6220_classic
post #141 of 288
Just a note to the Canadians that apple.ca says that the iPhone will be coming to both Rogers and Fido, which was previously unannounced.

http://www.apple.com/ca/iphone/buy/
post #142 of 288
I doubt it would be because they are "behind the ball" so much as there are different factors affecting each's talk time perhaps?
post #143 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by merdhead View Post

Thicker is not better. It's a negative. You like having your phone bigger?

It is 0.02 inches, i.e., 0.508 mm, thicker. So what is the problem?
post #144 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by guiness View Post

Just a note to the Canadians that apple.ca says that the iPhone will be coming to both Rogers and Fido, which was previously unannounced.

http://www.apple.com/ca/iphone/buy/

Rogers owns FIDO.
post #145 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by PG4G View Post

I doubt it would be because they are "behind the ball" so much as there are different factors affecting each's talk time perhaps?

You miss the point entirely. If Nokia can get 3G to be 70% of 2G talk taime, why can Apple only get 50% of 2G talk time? The answer, probably because their analog engineering is not as good as Nokia's.

It's got nothing to do with the fact that 3G is more power hungry that 2G, we know that, its to do with the choices Apple have made and the designs they use.
post #146 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by merdhead View Post

You miss the point entirely. If Nokia can get 3G to be 70% of 2G talk taime, why can Apple only get 50% of 2G talk time? The answer, probably because their analog engineering is not as good as Nokia's.

You make a valid point but I think we have to wait until independent parties test it before we make a decision. Remember, Apple now uses a more "real world" metric than others hat may affect the battery usage numbers.

Besides that, there is no doubt that Nokia can rings around Apple when it comes to 3G radio optimization. They won't have their first one out for over a month. I wonder if they we'll see any noticeable improvements with subsequent firmware updates.
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post #147 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

That's a bit of what I was thinking. There haven't been any for sale for maybe a month already.

It also sucks because I have a flight that day and I was hoping to travel with it. I might be able to get it earlier, but I have to leave for the airport at 9. That doesn't leave much time to get it, have it activated and sync it before leaving. Worse, my thinking is it may be sold out quickly. They have the release the thing on a fucking Friday?

AHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!
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post #148 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by merdhead View Post

You miss the point entirely. If Nokia can get 3G to be 70% of 2G talk taime, why can Apple only get 50% of 2G talk time? The answer, probably because their analog engineering is not as good as Nokia's.

It's got nothing to do with the fact that 3G is more power hungry that 2G, we know that, its to do with the choices Apple have made and the designs they use.

The example you linked to has a talk time of 3.5 hours GSM and 2.5 hours 3G. The ratio doesn't enter into it, in my opinion, because all the Nokias I've been in contact with in later years have had atrocious battery life.
post #149 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

I I might be able to get it earlier, but I have to leave for the airport at 9. That doesn't leave much time to get it, have it activated and sync it before leaving. Worse, my thinking is it may be sold out quickly. They have the release the thing on a fucking Friday?

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but last year's iPhone was released on a Friday @5pm in each time zone. I postponed a several month trip to Asia last year as long as I could to get it but had to leave the week before it came out. Sucked for me too, though I did get the lower price when I returned.
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post #150 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blütnerd View Post

The ratio doesn't enter into it, in my opinion, because all the Nokias I've been in contact with in later years have had atrocious battery life.

These could be different things. The Nokia phones in question may have had heavily used batteries, old tech batteries and/or small capacity batteries. We need to see how much power is required to run a 3G radio while surfing the internet for x amount of time to make a determination on way or the other.
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post #151 of 288
I just did a quick comparison check with a few SonyEricsson 3G phones, and they seem to have a 3G talk time of about 30% to 40% of the GSM talk time. And their GSM talk time is comparable to the IPhones 10 hours. So I think the case here is more that Nokias GSM optimization is god awful, not that Apples 3G optimization is lacking.
However, final judgement will have to wait untill we get real life numbers.
post #152 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

These could be different things. The Nokia phones in question may have had heavily used batteries, old tech batteries and/or small capacity batteries. We need to see how much power is required to run a 3G radio while surfing the internet for x amount of time to make a determination on way or the other.

I should add that I work tech suport for a mobile phone operator, so the number of phones I've been in contact with is larger than most people. It's still anecdotal evidence, and should be regarded as such, but I think Nokias numbers speak for themselves. 3.5 hours GSM? That is not anywhere near acceptable. The N73 as 4.5 hours. The N95 has 6.5 hours GSM and 3 hours 3G. This is not something to be lauded, regardless of ratio.
post #153 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blütnerd View Post

I just did a quick comparison check with a few SonyEricsson 3G phones, and they seem to have a 3G talk time of about 30% to 40% of the GSM talk time. And their GSM talk time is comparable to the IPhones 10 hours. So I think the case here is more that Nokias GSM optimization is god awful, not that Apples 3G optimization is lacking.
However, final judgement will have to wait untill we get real life numbers.

I think it would be interesting to compare battery sizes for each of the phones in question. The Nokia's battery is 900mAh, have you got a reference link for the SE phones?
post #154 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blütnerd View Post

The example you linked to has a talk time of 3.5 hours GSM and 2.5 hours 3G. The ratio doesn't enter into it, in my opinion, because all the Nokias I've been in contact with in later years have had atrocious battery life.

The ratio is the whole point because it's independent of the size of the battery. Sheesh.
post #155 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blütnerd View Post

is larger than most people. It's still anecdotal evidence, and should be regarded as such, but I think Nokias numbers speak for themselves. 3.5 hours GSM? That is not anywhere near acceptable. The N73 as 4.5 hours. The N95 has 6.5 hours GSM and 3 hours 3G. This is not something to be lauded, regardless of ratio.

You have a valid point as well. At very least, Nokia really should up the battery capacity or battery technology to allow for longer talk times.

I'm not sure how common it is these days, but cell manufacturers would release a very small battery to report the weigh and thickness, but then have a fat battery pack option that stated a much higher talk time.
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post #156 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blütnerd View Post

I should add that I work tech suport for a mobile phone operator, so the number of phones I've been in contact with is larger than most people. It's still anecdotal evidence, and should be regarded as such, but I think Nokias numbers speak for themselves. 3.5 hours GSM? That is not anywhere near acceptable. The N73 as 4.5 hours. The N95 has 6.5 hours GSM and 3 hours 3G. This is not something to be lauded, regardless of ratio.

Obviously it depends on the size of the phone and it's a trade-off you can't escape. Bigger phones generally have better talk time. N95 and iPhones are much bigger than the Nokia 6620c.
post #157 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

You have a valid point as well. At very least, Nokia really should up the battery capacity or battery technology to allow for longer talk times.

I'm not sure how common it is these days, but cell manufacturers would release a very small battery to report the weigh and thickness, but then have a fat battery pack option that stated a much higher talk time.

I disagree. I want a really small, light phone and I don't care that much about talk time. You're looking at it from one side. If you don't talk on the phone a lot, but you want to have one handy without it getting in the way, then you're going to be like me.

Different battery sizes wen out long ago. Where have you been! Maybe there is the odd model around today but I can't think of one.
post #158 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by merdhead View Post

Yes, it's true, it's not much thicker, but the battery life isn't fantastically better, only about 25% on 2G. Still 10 hours is pretty good talk time. But Apple have done a pretty poor job of the 3G talk time. A comparable phone like the Nokia 6220 Classic has a 3G/2G ratio of 70%, while Apple's is 50%. Goes to show that Apple is behind the 8 ball when it comes to analog and RF design.

Ref: http://www.forum.nokia.com/devices/6220_classic

Love to see your credentials.

You are comparing apples and oranges. Unless both phones were being equally tested in the same location, under the same conditions, at the same time, there is no way that one can make a comparison.

"Battery Life (iPhone)
2G: eight hours of talk time, up to 250 hours of standby, six hours of internet use, seven hours of video playback, and up to 24 hours of audio playback.

3G: up to five hours of talk time using 3G, or 10 hours using 2G, standby is 300 hours, five hours of 3G internet use and six hours of Wi-Fi internet use, seven hours of video playback and up to 24 hours of audio playback." http://techdigest.tv/2008/06/first_generatio.html

v.s. as you referenced for the Nokia: GSM: up to 3.5 hours vs WCDMA: up to 2.5 hours; but then you have a giant screen to contend with which makes that 8 ball look so small.
post #159 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by merdhead View Post

The ratio is the whole point because it's independent of the size of the battery. Sheesh.

While it seems it unfathomable to me that Nokia would fail at optimizing GSM, we don't have any way of testing this until we can get some battery stats.

Either way, it looks like you and Blütnerd are about to go toe to toe in an assumptive argument that will yield no results. Anyone here no how to break down battery stats into real world figures? I don't have a clue!

Quote:
Originally Posted by merdhead View Post

Different battery sizes wen out long ago. Where have you been!

I go under hot sleep with Somec between keynotes. It's only been 2 weeks for me since the Motorola StarTAC came out. (I'll be suprised if anyone gets that without googling it)
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post #160 of 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blütnerd View Post

I should add that I work tech suport for a mobile phone operator, so the number of phones I've been in contact with is larger than most people. It's still anecdotal evidence, and should be regarded as such, but I think Nokias numbers speak for themselves. 3.5 hours GSM? That is not anywhere near acceptable. The N73 as 4.5 hours. The N95 has 6.5 hours GSM and 3 hours 3G. This is not something to be lauded, regardless of ratio.

Even worse. N95, GSM up to 4 hours and WCDMS up to 2.7 hours. http://www.forum.nokia.com/devices/N95
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