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3G iPhone to be in-store activated; free upgrade for recent buyers - Page 2

post #41 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jensonb View Post

Let's address this one more time:

CDMA is a dead in the water system which has very little usage outside the US. Furthermore, it's usage is shrinking. Apple are extremely unlikely to ship a CDMA iPhone and by extension a VeriZon one.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

There are more CDMA subscribers outside the US than inside. Despite your contention, its usage is growing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jensonb View Post

Let's address this one more time:

CDMA is a dead in the water system which has very little usage outside the US. Furthermore, it's usage is shrinking. Apple are extremely unlikely to ship a CDMA iPhone and by extension a VeriZon one.

To expound on what JeffDM said, there are also more CDMA users than GSM users INSIDE the US too.

Also Sprint and Verizon turned down the iphone before Apple turned to ATT. Not everyone wants Apple dictating how they run their businesses.
post #42 of 125
Here's what I've been trying to find out: If we're moving to a standard subsidized phone model, then

1) will you be able to purchase a 3G iPhone if you're already under contract with any other mobile phone (iPhone included)? I think the answer to this one is 'yes' but it's always from a 3rd party I've read this. Maybe someone has an AT&T/Apple link about this.

2) once you purchase the 3G iPhone are you stuck with it for 2 years? I.E. If they release another model with more storage like they did with the first iPhone or even another major release, will current 3G iPhone owners have the option w/ the obligatory new contract? I kind of sense that this 3G iPhone contract is going to be a little more firm than the current one. Otherwise what's to stop one from a) buying one, b) waiting a month or so, c) oops, I "lost" it, buy a replacement complete with new contract, d) 30day return policy booyah. Maybe there's no return policy for iPhones, but unless that contract is firm or they have non-subsidized pricing that seems like a way out. Not that I'm looking for one, I don't care about that. But I am concerned with hardware updates and the ability to take advantage of those as I was hoping for the 32GB version.
post #43 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

Wow. This is starting to look like a series of stunningly stupid moves from Apple.

I have been drooling over the iPhone for close to two years, just waiting and waiting for it to be available in my area. I was so set to buy one I almost went downtown to the Apple store in case it went on sale today, but now I am not sure I will even buy one at all.

I went from "mildly disappointed" just after the keynote, to WTF?, to "probably won't buy one now."

Aside from the disappointing, "hardly-changed-at-all" hardware feature set and the "not much in it for non corporate users" software update, now I *won't* be able to buy it online and I *won't* be able to use it at all without selling my soul to the local Telecom monopoly?

This whole scenario is so "un-Apple," so greedy, and so totally, totally lame I am speechless.

My last ace-in-the hole position was that I could buy the thing and not use the phone part and still be happy, now I don't even have that? WTF is Apple thinking here? I feel cheated.

I didn't know that the Bush Administration mandated purchases of 3G iPhones. Maybe if they just wrapped it in a bacon cheeseburger and served it at your local deli for $2 you would buy it.
post #44 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by YTV View Post

To expound on what JeffDM said, there are also more CDMA users than GSM users INSIDE the US too.

Also Sprint and Verizon turned down the iphone before Apple turned to ATT. Not everyone wants Apple dictating how they run their businesses.

There are 2 billion ( yes, billion) GSM users worldwide. Enough said. Pack your Verizon phone for a trip around the world and see how many places it's going to work seamlessly.
post #45 of 125
You missed his point. If Apple continued to allow activation outside of an AT&T or Apple Store, if you are at all tech savvy, you could have the functional equivalent of a $299 iPod Touch for $199 by purchasing the $199 iPhone and jail-breaking it. The original poster's theory is that Apple is requiring in store activation, at least in part, to prevent people from buying $199 iPhones and going home and unlocking them thereby having an iPod Touch for a third of the price as they are currently priced.

I think there is something to that. I, however, think it has more to do with the fact that at $199 Apple probably would be selling the device at a loss or break even. It makes it's profit when people sign up for a contract with AT&T since AT&T is now subsidizing the cost (CNN has confirmed this). If people where to buy the iPhone at $199 and either jailbreak it to use as an iPod Touch or unlock it to use on another network, Apple would likely be taking a loss on each sale.

I for one will never use AT&T. The company is criminal. I will keep using my first generation unlocked iPhone on T-Mobile. If I want the next generation phone I will buy it at a Store and cancel the contract during the first month whereby I will probably get hit with a couple hundred dollar early cancellation fee. In the end that comes out to what the current cost of the iPhone is. I will then continue to use it on T-Mobile.


Quote:
Originally Posted by djames42 View Post

No. The $199 subsidized price is had with a two-year contract. You either get the privilege of paying $60/month (which turns your "iPod Touch" into a $919 device), or you break the contract (which then means you've paid about $400-500). The other two alternatives are paying the non-contract price of $399 and jailbreaking it, or simply buying the touch
post #46 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tantrum View Post

There are 2 billion ( yes, billion) GSM users worldwide. Enough said. Pack your Verizon phone for a trip around the world and see how many places it's going to work seamlessly.

You do realize only 25% of US citizens have a passport right? That means 75% need their phone in the US only.

Also I don't have a Verizon phone so thats impossible.
post #47 of 125
Don't buy that for a minute. Apple always intended to go with AT&T. It just wanted the most favorable terms it could get. How do you do that? By playing each competing company off one another. Apple never really intended to going with Sprint or Verizon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by YTV View Post

Also Sprint and Verizon turned down the iphone before Apple turned to ATT. Not everyone wants Apple dictating how they run their businesses.
post #48 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tantrum View Post

There are 2 billion ( yes, billion) GSM users worldwide. Enough said. Pack your Verizon phone for a trip around the world and see how many places it's going to work seamlessly.

That fact isn't so helpful with the US iPhone unless you want to shell out thousands of dollars in international access fees for a single trip, or void your warranty, Apple won't fix an iphone if they can tell it's been hacked. You're far better off leaving it behind and buying a cheapie.

I don't contest that there are many more GSM subscribers, CDMA subscribers is not a trifling number either.
post #49 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by YTV View Post

You do realize only 25% of US citizens have a passport right? That means 75% need their phone in the US only.

Also I don't have a Verizon phone so thats impossible.

Granted, if you'll also realize that Apple is a global company that will soon be making 60% of its revenue and profits outside the United States just like HP, Google, Microsoft, IBM and Cisco. Only 6% of the world's population lives here in the US and Apple has a relationship with the largest GSM carrier. That's a good start. It's too early to seek out Verizon when the whole value proposition is to reduce AT&T churn and encourage switching. iPhone is succeeding in doing that for AT&T.
post #50 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmgceo View Post

If it has to be activated in the store then how do you buy a 3G iPhone from the apple ONLINE store ????

Maybe they will send it pre-activated for you and you sign up for the contract online.
post #51 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by merdhead View Post

Maybe they will send it pre-activated for you and you sign up for the contract online.

Preactivated? hahahahahahahahahahahahahahah
post #52 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tantrum View Post

There are 2 billion ( yes, billion) GSM users worldwide. Enough said. Pack your Verizon phone for a trip around the world and see how many places it's going to work seamlessly.

Actually there are about 3.1 billion (don't feel so bad, you were only off by 1 billion) and about 400 million CDMA users, so CDMA is about 12% of the market, that is, a trifle.

We've been over this many times. Apple were never going to release a CDMA phone. Already one of the big US CDMA phone companies are going to GSM (LTE in particular).

CDMA is dead. Deal with it.
post #53 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by onceuponamac View Post

Preactivated? hahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

Uh, have you got a point or have you just forgotten your medication today?
post #54 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by merdhead View Post

Actually there are about 3.1 billion (don't feel so bad, you were only off by 1 billion) and about 400 million CDMA users, so CDMA is about 12% of the market, that is, a trifle.

We've been over this many times. Apple were never going to release a CDMA phone. Already one of the big US CDMA phone companies are going to GSM (LTE in particular).

CDMA is dead. Deal with it.

So by your logic, with Mac's marketshare less than 12%, then Mac's are dead too then?

Also the fact that there are MORE CDMA users than GSM users in the US means CDMA is dead in the US too?
post #55 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tantrum View Post

Granted, if you'll also realize that Apple is a global company that will soon be making 60% of its revenue and profits outside the United States just like HP, Google, Microsoft, IBM and Cisco. Only 6% of the world's population lives here in the US and Apple has a relationship with the largest GSM carrier. That's a good start. It's too early to seek out Verizon when the whole value proposition is to reduce AT&T churn and encourage switching. iPhone is succeeding in doing that for AT&T.

LOL everyone is talking soon, next year, in a few years, etc.... Why don;t some of you focus on what is actually known? How much of Apple's revenue comes from outside the US today? What is Apples marketshare outside the US today?
post #56 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post

Don't buy that for a minute. Apple always intended to go with AT&T. It just wanted the most favorable terms it could get. How do you do that? By playing each competing company off one another. Apple never really intended to going with Sprint or Verizon.

The companies were never pitted against one another. Apple moved on the the next after they were shut down.
post #57 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Apple in the US will attempt to stifle the proliferation of unlocked iPhones by requiring that all of the new handsets be activated at the time of purchase. Meanwhile, first-gen iPhones purchased after May 27 will reportedly be eligible for a free

Why doesnt Apple just sell the iphone with both carriers and then they wouldnt have that problem?!
post #58 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericblr View Post

Why doesnt Apple just sell the iphone with both carriers and then they wouldnt have that problem?!

I mean both GSM carriers.
post #59 of 125
They're so disgusting.

"When announcing the App Store, Apple established a 10MB cap on downloads available through the online service and limits larger downloads to Wi-Fi; AT&T isn't specifically responsible for this threshhold but has "worked with Apple" on the iPhone 3G's development, Lurie says."
http://www.electronista.com/articles...hone.3g.plans/


Also I guess it's clear now that Jobs failed to persuade labels to sell music via 3G at the same price.

Maybe this is why he looked like he was dying today

But. They did just secure the consumer smartphone market.
post #60 of 125
I don't mean to get this thread back on track or anything, but I just talked to someone on the apple store online chat, and he said that you will only be able to buy the phone in local stores...I of course follow that up with "why?" and he says, "well, I don't know because if I told you you wouldn't like me anymore"

he didn't really say that, but its the truth. hooking up the iphone at home was the coolest part.

also, does this mean that we will not ever be able to reformat the iphone to its factory default through itunes, in a another attempt to fight jalibraking?
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post #61 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomohr View Post

I don't mean to get this thread back on track or anything, but I just talked to someone on the apple store online chat, and he said that you will only be able to buy the phone in local stores...I of course follow that up with "why?" and he says, "well, I don't know because if I told you you wouldn't like me anymore"

he didn't really say that, but its the truth.

That's quite a story!

Quote:
hooking up the iphone at home was the coolest part.

The "coolest part" of what?
post #62 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by YTV View Post

So by your logic, with Mac's marketshare less than 12%, then Mac's are dead too then?

Also the fact that there are MORE CDMA users than GSM users in the US means CDMA is dead in the US too?

No, Mac has something to offer: quality. CDMA is no better or worse than GSM. Yes, CDMA is dead in the US as well. It's being phased out for LTE (4G).

I'll put it in a way that you can understand: CDMA is Beta, GSM is VHS or CDMA is HD DVD and GSM is BluRay (sp?). Got it?
post #63 of 125
I think Apple is more concerned with making sure developers are working on stuff for sale through the iTunes App Store rather than directly to jailbreakers. It was convenient to let developers figure out ways people would use the device during the past year but now its time to reign it in and make it work for them. The greatest advantage to Apple selling the applications is they know how people are using the device and can improve the OS accordingly.

On a tangent I think those medical apps are screaming for a tablet so I'll be passing on another beautiful device sadly chained to that bitch at&t wireless.
post #64 of 125
With their new restrictive policies Apple and at&t have unwittingly created all new demand for 1st gen iPhones.

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post #65 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomohr View Post

also, does this mean that we will not ever be able to reformat the iphone to its factory default through itunes, in a another attempt to fight jalibraking?

No, you should be able to reformat to factory default settings. It's just since they nab you with a contract in the store, good luck getting your hands on one of those puppies without paying any early termination fee or being stuck with a AT&T 2-year contract.
post #66 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by icfireball View Post

No, you should be able to reformat to factory default settings. It's just since they nab you with a contract in the store, good luck getting your hands on one of those puppies without paying any early termination fee or being stuck with a AT&T 2-year contract.

I foresee a burgeoning market for stolen blackmarket iPhone 3Gs. Sometimes I would just like to smack Jobs and the drones at at&t upside the head.

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post #67 of 125
Quote:
Apple in the US will attempt to stifle the proliferation of unlocked iPhones by requiring that all of the new handsets be activated at the time of purchase.


Tied sales are illegal. It is illegal to tie the sale of a product with a service so that, if you want to buy and own the product, you must subscribe to the service.

This is the difference between the phone you buy and own versus a rented phone service.

Sorry, Apple, but manic Steve MUST OBEY ANTITRUST laws. Otherwise, they'll throw you in jail where you belong and add fraud and perjury charges for the billion dollar stock option backdating offences.

Consumer protection laws also forbid tied sales.

Consumers, sue and you'll get the head of Steve Jobs whose delusions will have to come to an end. Period.

post #68 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by ouragan View Post

Tied sales are illegal. It is illegal to tie the sale of a product with a service so that, if you want to buy and own the product, you must subscribe to the service.

This is the difference between the phone you buy and own versus a rented phone service.

Sorry, Apple, but manic Steve MUST OBEY ANTITRUST laws. Otherwise, they'll throw you in jail where you belong and add fraud and perjury charges for the billion dollar stock option backdating offences.

Consumer protection laws also forbid tied sales.

Consumers, sue and you'll get the head of Steve Jobs whose delusions will have to come to an end. Period.


I think a well-timed class action lawsuit aimed at at&t could do the trick and break the contract... here's hoping for a good solid case.

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post #69 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjp091 View Post

Since ATT just anounced that Apple will no longer have revenue sharing with ATT, and will be just like any other equipment providor, I don't see how ATT can keep Apple from selling the iPhone to other carriers.

You may have a point there.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #70 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

You may have a point there.

I sure wish a mole at at&t would confirm the actual length of the bloody contract with Apple.

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post #71 of 125
I guess its time to sell my iPhone!
Maybe you don't have to activate your iPhone at Apple or AT&T. Maybe you need to give your information (Name, SSN, Address CC number) and ID and then will be given an activation code tied to your 3G iPhone SN. If, say after 30 days, you did not activate your iPhone then you will be charged a cancelation fee ($200?). Good luck buying another iPhone then. Just what I think is more practical than going through the whole thing!
post #72 of 125
Although as a stockholder I'd hate to see Apple harmed by this awfully doltish agreement, it might be for the better if at&t and Apple both lost customers as a result of this horrible marriage of convenience.

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post #73 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

You may have a point there.

There is no point.

Quote from the AT&T press release:

"Under the terms of a new agreement with Apple, AT&T remains the exclusive U.S. carrier of the iPhone 3G, which will be available beginning July 11 at a starting price of $199 with a two-year contract."

http://www.att.com/gen/press-room?pi...rticleid=25791
post #74 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by merdhead View Post

No, Mac has something to offer: quality. CDMA is no better or worse than GSM. Yes, CDMA is dead in the US as well. It's being phased out for LTE (4G).

I'll put it in a way that you can understand: CDMA is Beta, GSM is VHS or CDMA is HD DVD and GSM is BluRay (sp?). Got it?

Sorry nothing you say is making any type of logical sense.

1. CDMA call quality is faaaaar superior to GSM , this is fact.

2. The CDMA US 3g Network is faaaaar larger than the GSM US 3G network, this is also fact.

I'm done arguing with you as long as you don't say anything else stupid. All im hearing from you is complete rubbish. You can speculate for your whole life about what the landscape will be in 2, 3, 5 years from now. Heck some radical group could mount an attack and bomb every CDMA tower in the US simultaneously tomorrow, Apple could buy Sprint, Paul Rubens could become the next big action star for the next 10 years......................

Im talking about right now and the immediate future.

Any merger, system, phone, technology could completely change the landscape as we know it at any time.
post #75 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

There is no point.

Quote from the AT&T press release:

"Under the terms of a new agreement with Apple, AT&T remains the exclusive U.S. carrier of the iPhone 3G, which will be available beginning July 11 at a starting price of $199 with a two-year contract."

http://www.att.com/gen/press-room?pi...rticleid=25791

Yes, but due to the new terms of the contract between Apple and at&t (sans revenue sharing) is the length of the exclusive contract expiring sooner? Get digging moles!

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post #76 of 125
I have a funny feeling selling an iPhone at $199 Apple is not actually selling at a loss, even witout any add-ons. Besides, the make extra money from the made for iPhone program. They make money on the app store 15% after costs I'd bet. They make a killing on the halo effect too. I'd bet they are still actually making a $20 at $199, and they securing a potential Mac user every time. There's a bigger picture here, and they'll get a nice chunk of subsidies from those who do buy in the phones stores all round the world, and all those corporate clients too. I'd bet when it cones out there will be ways to buy it in most countries including the US contract-free. And if worst comes to worst there's always the contract buyout fee.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #77 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by YTV View Post

Sorry nothing you say is making any type of logical sense.

1. CDMA call quality is faaaaar superior to GSM , this is fact.

2. The CDMA US 3g Network is faaaaar larger than the GSM US 3G network, this is also fact.

I'm done arguing with you as long as you don't say anything else stupid. All im hearing from you is complete rubbish. You can speculate for your whole life about what the landscape will be in 2, 3, 5 years from now. Heck some radical group could mount an attack and bomb every CDMA tower in the US simultaneously tomorrow, Apple could buy Sprint, Paul Rubens could become the next big action star for the next 10 years......................

Im talking about right now and the immediate future.

Any merger, system, phone, technology could completely change the landscape as we know it at any time.

So you don't actually have any valid arguments and you're made to look foolish so you start calling me names and spit the dummy. Let me guess. You're about 14 years old?

- There is no evidence that the GSM and CDMA are very different in terms of user experience. In fact 3G GSM is Wideband CDMA.

- the US phone companies have announced that they are transitioning to GSM LTE starting 2009/10. This is a matter of public record.

You are just making stuff up. They facts you state just don't exist. Just because one network has better call quality than the other doesn't mean its due to the technology.

Anyway CDMA is dead. The point is moot.
post #78 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Although as a stockholder I'd hate to see Apple harmed by this awfully doltish agreement, it might be for the better if at&t and Apple both lost customers as a result of this horrible marriage of convenience.

Who are they gonna go to? AT&T is the only GSM network in the US. T-Mobile has no coverage.
post #79 of 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

Did you even read the AT&T press release that I cited?

It specifically said that AT&T is the exclusive provider of the 3G iphone in the US.

AT&T said that it will take a hit on earnings for the next 2 years by about 10-12 cents a share.

AT&T also said that they won't be making money of this deal until 2010 --- so at the very least the exclusive agreement goes beyond 2010 to make any sense for them.

Well, it's pretty easy to see what this amounts to.

AT&T has basically subsidized the phone by around the margin it's expecting to make on the 2 years worth of contract everyone who buys one is expected to sign. Profits on the phone starting in 2010 means its expecting on earning it's money from iPhoners close to the end of that contract, or once the contract expires and they keep paying the same rates.

Other questions I have - what will the "upgrade" price be for folks that are still under 2-year contract for their first generation phone who want to but the new phone? Or will that even be an option?

I don't see Apple ever offering unlocked phones again - I'm sure a lot of their problems in getting contracts made with phone companies internationally with the first gen phone has been the fact that unlocked phones have been so well publicized and making it difficult or impossible for Apple to bargain with companies on the grounds of giving them exclusivity. The AT&T deal is what all the other telecoms in the world have used as a preview, and round 1 was not a success. Now they're trying a more agressive strategy.

Requiring a contract to be signed at purchase will basically force unlockers to pay the broken contract charge of around $600 and make unlocked phones cost upwards of $800-1000 online via eBay, etc.

I don't think it's that hard to believe that the 3G iPhone will only be available online in the US via AT&Ts website, or some sort of AT$T apple hybrid zone on the apple store which also requires activiation. That's standard practice at pretty much all phone companies' websites already.

If you're thinking of ordering from out of country, expect the phone to be much more expensive, as most EU countries have a legal limit of 6 month mobile contracts, which I assume means the phone will be less subsidized here, and therefore cost a fair bit more. And broken contract fees in Europe are much higher than in the US...
post #80 of 125
I actually heard that about 3-5 years ago the govt made it illegal for wireless companies to tag on anything more then a 2 year contract period. Meaning that you cannot under any circumstances go more then 2 years. They can only extended contract to 2 years for newly purchased subsidized phones. Does anyone know if this is true. Please only answer if you or someone you know that has a longer then 2 year contact with a carrier.




Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Apple in the US will attempt to stifle the proliferation of unlocked iPhones by requiring that all of the new handsets be activated at the time of purchase. Meanwhile, first-gen iPhones purchased after May 27 will reportedly be eligible for a free upgrade to the 3G model.

Speaking to Gizmodo, AT&T's President of National Distribution Glenn Lurie reportedly confirmed that there will be no in-home activation for iPhone 3G like there was with the original iPhone.

Instead, all iPhone 3G customers must have their new handsets activated in either an Apple or AT&T store, a process which "takes 10-12 minutes." This should do wonders for the first-day line on July 11, the gadget site speculates. (This was also confirmed during an AT&T conference call, AppleInsider has been told.)

Lurie said AT&T and Apple will provide more details regarding the sales procedures for the new iPhone sometime "in the next week or so." However, he said not to expect online sales of the iPhone 3G at launch, meaning a retail store may be the only place to snag one.

Separately, both Gizmodo and ArsTechnica are reporting that consumers who purchased an original iPhone on or after May 27 will be able swap it for an iPhone 3G at no cost.

The two reports add that AT&T will make all iPhone 3G buyers sign a new 2-year contract which will overwrite any existing contracts. That means AT&T won't tack an additional 2 years onto any existing contracts but will instead wipe existing contracts out and start fresh with a maximum 2-year commitment from the date the iPhone 3G was purchased.
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