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Montevina MBP MB Speculation Thread

post #1 of 190
Thread Starter 
Let's collect some information that will best represent what's going to be released after July 15th. Based on previous MBP and MB release cycles and closely matched systems released by other vendors such as Lenovo, Sony, Asustek, etc we can expect some of these specs and features will be incorporated in MBP and MB.

MBP
* Intel Centrino 2 with vPro up to 2.8GHz 6MB Cache (featuring faster 1066MHz FSB, 45nm)
* Cantiga Chipset PM45 (65nm)
* 250GB/320GB 5400RPM HDD, Optional 200GB/320GB 7200RPM HDD
* Nvidia 9xxx M Series 256MB/512MB (55nm)
* DDR2 RAM (800MHz DDR2), DDR3 RAM (1067MHz DDR3)
* WiFi / Bluetooth, Optional WiMax
* LED Panels
* Firewire 400/800 Port
* 6+ Hours Battery

MB
* Intel Centrino 2 with vPro up to 2.6GHz 3MB Cache (featuring faster 1066MHz FSB, 45nm)
* Cantiga Chipset GM45 (65nm)
* 250GB/320GB 5400RPM HDD
* Intel GMA 4500MHD
* DDR2 RAM (800MHz DDR2)
* WiFi / Bluetooth
* Firewire 400 Port
* 6+ Hours Battery

Since DDR3-1066 SODIMM still cost much higher than DDR2-800 SODIMM, there is a chance the initial release of Montevina MBP and MB will use DDR2-800 SODIMM similar to the latest iMac.

There are also speculation of Nehalem microarchicture which offers HT, Quickpath, etc. However the initial TDP of Nehalem will be much higher than Merom or Penryn until 32nm process due around H1 2010. Therefore, Cantiga/Penyrn (Montevina Platform) will probably be the next best combination since Calistoga/Merom (Napa Platform).

LCD vendors are also pushing for 15.6" and 17.3" 16:9 panels, what's the likelihood Apple adapt these new panels remained to be seen.
post #2 of 190
Exterior:

I could see them going to the new size panels on the MBPs. Other than that, I don't see much they can do to change as far as the case goes other than making it a bit thinner (.8 maybe?) and lighter. I seriously doubt there will be color options for the Pro line.

As far as the Macbook is concerned, The redesign seems like it would include aluminum casings, several mm thinner, lighter, and eventually a couple color options (black and silver).
post #3 of 190
Thread Starter 
The current MBP LCD case can still house the new 15.6" and 17.3" without changing the overall LCD case dimension, it seems. It only requires replacing the piece of front aluminum frame to fit the new panel diagonal size. The question is at what resolution of LCD panel can 15" MBP use? For 17" model, Apple may adapt 1920x1080 native resolution for the new 17.3" panel. There is not much MBP thickness can change due to the use of built-in optical drive. Perhaps just a slight thinner but not much.

For MB, we can expect Apple to use aluminum, it's just the matter of time. The screen resolution maybe changed to 1280x720 for 16:9 aspect ratio, slightly narrower edge, smaller form factor, and further reduce the weight.

While LCD industry is pushing for HDTV-like resolution to notebook, we may see the Blu-Ray drive in future MBP refresh sooner than later.
post #4 of 190
I'd like to see bigger HDD options for the MB an an aluminum case possibly in a metallic black as well, white keys to set it apart would be nice! Oh and multi touch gesture trackpad like the MBA and MBP. Another USB port as well.

In terms of MBP, a new keyboard to match the MB, MBA and iMac layout and feel, probably the majority of changes will be internal in this case.
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post #5 of 190
I'm hoping for the 17.1" panel from LG
Model LG171WU5 1920x1200
8-bit instead of 6-bit
16.7 million colors instead of 256K
RGB LED instead of white LED
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post #6 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by HFU View Post

Let's collect some information that will best represent what's going to be released after July 15th. Based on previous MBP and MB release cycles and closely matched systems released by other vendors such as Lenovo, Sony, Asustek, etc we can expect some of these specs and features will be incorporated in MBP and MB.

MBP
* Intel Centrino 2 with vPro up to 2.8GHz 6MB Cache (featuring faster 1066MHz FSB, 45nm)
* Cantiga Chipset PM45 (65nm)
* 250GB/320GB 5400RPM HDD, Optional 200GB/320GB 7200RPM HDD
* Nvidia 9xxx M Series 256MB/512MB (55nm)
* DDR2 RAM (800MHz DDR2), DDR3 RAM (1067MHz DDR3)
* WiFi / Bluetooth, Optional WiMax
* LED Panels
* Firewire 400/800 Port
* 6+ Hours Battery

I think you are pretty close there. I would not be surprised if the CPU clock rate is a little lower for the cheaper MBP and battery life will not likely go past 6 hours.

Also, they will hopefully include a CUDA-ready (or whatever apple equivalent will be called) NVIDIA video card.
post #7 of 190
Thread Starter 
Making keyboard more inline with MB and MBA will also help Apple to reduce manufacturing cost of keyboard parts.

Given so much complained about MBP 6-bit LCD, hopefully Apple will adapt the better LG panels.

It's inevitable Apple will use CUDA ready GPU for future MBP refresh since so much talk about GPU optimization in WWDC08. It would make sense for Apple to release these capable hardware in conjunction with 10.6 development.

While analyzing the possible specs for Montevina MBP Q2 2008 update, it'd be hard to ignore the optional blu-ray drive as many other first-tier notebook vendors are offering it both as standard and BTO models.
post #8 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by HFU View Post

it'd be hard to ignore the optional blu-ray drive

And with a Blu-Ray drive option they need to go DisplayPort instead of DVI.

And with DisplayPort on laptops they need to introduce new Apple monitors offering DisplayPort input connections.

And while we're at it, we need >4GB of RAM.
Maybe not for today, but if my new laptop should last me 3 years then it definitely should be able to accept more than 4GB of RAM. 3 years from now 4GB is probably going to be minimum standard with 8+ required for serious 64bit programs.
post #9 of 190
i'm hoping for a black-anodized MBP, though chances are rather slim imo.
History tells us that Apple offers colour-options only to the lower-end laptops (ibook, macbook).
any thoughts on that.
post #10 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by HFU View Post

While analyzing the possible specs for Montevina MBP Q2 2008 update, it'd be hard to ignore the optional blu-ray drive as many other first-tier notebook vendors are offering it both as standard and BTO models.

what is the thickness of the drives in these other notebooks - MPB requires a slimmer drive, iirc...

does montevina provide the HDCP pathway needed for blu-ray? possibly, i seem to recall.

have apple sorted out the licensing issues with sony?

will apple support B-R for the consumer market before they provide support for the pro/content-creation market?
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post #11 of 190
Thread Starter 
According to Intel data sheet for desktop counter part (GM45 chipset), it supports up to 16GB physical RAM. 8GB RAM support for Montevina MBP would be an option since 4GB DDR3 SODIMM is in production now.

Black-anodized MB or MBP would be a nice option.

The video interface would be an interesting speculation. GM45 chipset with integrated graphics device will support the following general features:

* DirectX 10
* OpenGL 1.5
* Intel Clear Video Technology
* Dual Independent Display
* ADD2/MEC
* HDMI 1.3
* DVI
* Display Port
* Integrated HDCP
* PAVP
* VGA

With all these video related feature supported in Montevina generation chipset, blu-ray support in MBP is not too far away. Though Mac Pro will probably get it first.

ThinkPad R series use 13mm thick B-R internal combo drive in a 1.2" thick system enclosure, it's likely the newer B-R internal combo drive will be updated to 9.5mm thickness for other thinner ThinkPad X, T series.
post #12 of 190
My gut tells me that Apple is moving all of its models to the same aluminum-with-black-accents design scheme. White plastic is out completely, at least for computers. They started with the iMac, and the Macbook Air is a good clue to how the Macbook and MBP are both going to look. I don't know if that will happen for the next update, though.

Also, DisplayPort (while an excellent feature for Apple to adopt) is by no means necessary for Blu-Ray as some people seem to think. DVI is perfectly capable.
post #13 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by sennen View Post

will apple support B-R for the consumer market before they provide support for the pro/content-creation market?

I really don't think it is a matter of desktop having to get it first. Since a DisplayPort connector involves having new monitors as well, I think both will simply get it at the same time! Pro devices mind you, not iMacs or MacBooks.

The moment a MBP comes out with Blu-Ray drive options these things need to happen:

- move the MBP from DVI to DisplayPort
- introduce new Apple monitors with DisplayPort
- offer Blu-Ray drive option for Mac Pro
- offer Mac Pro graphics card with DisplayPort
- offer Pro softwares suites with support for the new intermal Blu-Ray drives

I don't see why all this could not happen in one single product announcement.

It doesn't seem to make much sense to offer Blu-Ray drives in Mac Pros, and consequently a new DisplayPort graphics card and new Apple monitors - and not give laptops an option to use those monitors directly.
post #14 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobBIT View Post

I really don't think it is a matter of desktop having to get it first. Since a DisplayPort connector involves having new monitors as well, I think both will simply get it at the same time! Pro devices mind you, not iMacs or MacBooks.

The moment a MBP comes out with Blu-Ray drive options these things need to happen:

- move the MBP from DVI to DisplayPort
- introduce new Apple monitors with DisplayPort
- offer Blu-Ray drive option for Mac Pro
- offer Mac Pro graphics card with DisplayPort
- offer Pro softwares suites with support for the new intermal Blu-Ray drives

I don't see why all this could not happen in one single product announcement.

It doesn't seem to make much sense to offer Blu-Ray drives in Mac Pros, and consequently a new DisplayPort graphics card and new Apple monitors - and not give laptops an option to use those monitors directly.

if the bolded point is indeed something that is necessary, then we won't see B-R on any macs til NAB 09 at the earliest. FCS is undergoing a re-write atm and B-R support in it is proving difficult to implement.
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post #15 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by sennen View Post

FCS is undergoing a re-write atm and B-R support in it is proving difficult to implement.

Really? That's not good news then... Where did you hear that?
Why is it proving difficult? Wouldn't it use some kind of 'Core' or QuickTime layer - so as long as one of these supports Blu-Ray Final Cut could do too?

Think about it, why would Apple introduce Blu-Ray in Mac Pros and 17" MacBook Pros unless this technology couldn't be used for their pro authoring suites like Final Cut? Just to have the option to view Blu-Ray movies and write a few (really expensive) Blu-Ray data DVD-Rs? Not sure that's a compelling enough reason for Apple.

If you own a Mac Pro or MacBook Pro with a Blu-Ray drive you want to be able to author Blu-Ray DVDs.


I guess Apple could still offer it as a built-to-order option. But it is much less likely to happen and will certainly not be standard on any configuration if their own software suite can't make use of Blu-Ray.
Bummer.
post #16 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobBIT View Post

Think about it, why would Apple introduce Blu-Ray in Mac Pros and 17" MacBook Pros unless this technology couldn't be used for their pro authoring suites like Final Cut? Just to have the option to view Blu-Ray movies and write a few (really expensive) Blu-Ray data DVD-Rs? Not sure that's a compelling enough reason for Apple.

If you own a Mac Pro or MacBook Pro with a Blu-Ray drive you want to be able to author Blu-Ray DVDs.

Bummer.

i thoroughly agree!

although apple did use dvd-rom drives back around c. G4 400/450 (AGP). but i think since the "superdrive" came out along with pro-app and iLife support for it, user culture has changed and mac users expect more than playback and data storage.

B-R spec is alot more complicated than dvd. esp. BD-i.
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post #17 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by sennen View Post

will apple support B-R for the consumer market before they provide support for the pro/content-creation market?

If "professionals" want Blu-Ray now, they can have it now. That's what the empty optical drive bay in the Mac Pro is for.
post #18 of 190
Hi all, I threw together this quick mockup. I hope it encapsulates our desires for the new MBP while retaining and exploring the MBA form factor advantages.

post #19 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuturePastNow View Post

If "professionals" want Blu-Ray now, they can have it now. That's what the empty optical drive bay in the Mac Pro is for.

by booting into windows, you mean?
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post #20 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by sennen View Post

by booting into windows, you mean?

If that's what they have to do. If the software doesn't exist for the Mac, there must not be much demand.
post #21 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuturePastNow View Post

If that's what they have to do. If the software doesn't exist for the Mac, there must not be much demand.

oh, of course.
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post #22 of 190
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Hi all, I threw together this quick mockup. I hope it encapsulates our desires for the new MBP while retaining and exploring the MBA form factor advantages.

Looks nice! With enclosure as thin as MBA, it would be a challenge for Apple to include internal super drive.
post #23 of 190
I dont think I would like a complete case redesign unless it were something really good. And I dont think you can improve much of anything on the current Macbook Pro case. If anything I would like to see something like this:



I am buying a MBP within the next month or so. I almost purchased one yesterday but then I decided that I would wait until after Intel releases Montevina on the 14th. Then I will wait until the first Tuesday of August for a MBP update.
post #24 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Hi all, I threw together this quick mockup. I hope it encapsulates our desires for the new MBP while retaining and exploring the MBA form factor advantages.


Nice photoshop there but it is not going to happen. The ultrathin form factor will remain air's domain. The MBP will not get much thinner than it is now because it emphasizes functionality and power instead of portability.
post #25 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauron View Post

Nice photoshop there but it is not going to happen. The ultrathin form factor will remain air's domain. The MBP will not get much thinner than it is now because it emphasizes functionality and power instead of portability.

I speculate that the new case redesign won't happen until next year.

I think the MBs are the only ones that are getting an update for the case.

What say you? 100% on a new case for the MBP? Just MB?
post #26 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikeddemus View Post

I speculate that the new case redesign won't happen until next year.

I think the MBs are the only ones that are getting an update for the case.

What say you? 100% on a new case for the MBP? Just MB?

I think, as I said earlier, that they'll both get a new design inspired by the MBA. for the Pro, this means more rounded corners and sloping edges, a magnetic latch and new keyboard. It won't actually get any thinner, though. I'd say it's about 50/50 that the regular Macbook will get this design, too.

You're probably right about a redesign not happening until next year, although there will certainly be an internal update soonish.
post #27 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuturePastNow View Post

I think, as I said earlier, that they'll both get a new design inspired by the MBA. for the Pro, this means more rounded corners and sloping edges, a magnetic latch and new keyboard. It won't actually get any thinner, though. I'd say it's about 50/50 that the regular Macbook will get this design, too.

You're probably right about a redesign not happening until next year, although there will certainly be an internal update soonish.


I'm quick to agree.

The past three months I've been a freak on like 5 websites trying to look at the history of people speculating on a case redesign...

...and these people have been doing it for the past two years.


Even AppleInsider won't put all their chips on a case redesign, because he/she knows it's bs speculation.

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post #28 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobBIT View Post

Think about it, why would Apple introduce Blu-Ray in Mac Pros and 17" MacBook Pros unless this technology couldn't be used for their pro authoring suites like Final Cut? Just to have the option to view Blu-Ray movies and write a few (really expensive) Blu-Ray data DVD-Rs? Not sure that's a compelling enough reason for Apple.

It makes a lot of sense for Apple to release the next batch of pro hardware with a Blu-ray drive even if their pro authoring suites do not have the ability to create Blu-ray content. Would you want to shell out the money for an 8/12/16 core Mac Pro without a Blu-ray drive only to have Apple update Final Cut Studio that can author Blu-ray content a couple months later?

At the very least, 3rd party software would get created to use the Blu-ray drives. LaCie sells an external Blu-ray drive and it comes with Toast Titanium that only needs Mac OS X 10.4.8 to function. As far as players are concerned, I am sure Apple will provide an application (BD-Player) that will play Blu-ray disks. Then there is VLC and DivX
post #29 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikeddemus View Post

I'm quick to agree.

The past three months I've been a freak on like 5 websites trying to look at the history of people speculating on a case redesign...

...and these people have been doing it for the past two years.

Right. But now something has changed: there is now a third laptop design in the mix, new and different from both older designs. And the iMac design dropped white plastic in favor of aluminum. I think it may indicate a trend.
post #30 of 190
Absolutely great thread.

Like many others, I've been waiting for a case update for years. In fact, I want one so badly, I'm still hanging on to a PB G4.

Here are the new features I would expect in a major update:

Magnetic latch
Easily-accessible HD
Chiclet keyboard (I once thought that Apple would take a conservative approach and leave the keyboard alone, but even the MBA was given the chiclet keyboard.)
Aluminum and black aluminum case components

I suppose a minor update could be made to the current case, and in that, I would only expect a magnetic latch.

I understand that Apple finds the current MBP design difficult to improve on (anyone would), but I am bewildered that it hasn't been updated with the magnetic latch yet. It's been more than two years since the MacBook was released with that feature.

As for the MB, I expect aluminum and black aluminum case components, and possibly LED backlighting in the black model, or if Apple is generous, in all models. I found the difference between the fluorescent backlight of the MB and the LED backlight of the MBA to be obvious when comparing the two in store.
post #31 of 190
If the 15" MBP is offered with a BTO option of 1920x1200 resolution, then I'll buy one.
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post #32 of 190
I really hope that the MBP update comes soon. I need a new laptop by mid August. I would LOVE to see a mobile version of nVidia's brand new GPU(GTX 280). I know Apple is pretty involved in the GPGPU market with them recently announcing OpenCL. Perhaps Apple knew about nVidia's upcoming plans and delayed the MBP because of this? I can only hope.
post #33 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by xc3ll View Post

I would LOVE to see a mobile version of nVidia's brand new GPU(GTX 280). I know Apple is pretty involved in the GPGPU market with them recently announcing OpenCL. Perhaps Apple knew about nVidia's upcoming plans and delayed the MBP because of this? I can only hope.

There's no freakin' way. A GTX 280 or 260 would at least quadruple the power requirements of a laptop like the MBP, and the amount of heat it would have to dissipate. It's completely unrealistic. In fact, even the previous-gen midrange GPUs like the 9600GT or HD3850 would be unrealistic in a Macbook-thin enclosure, unless Apple really underclocked them.

The good news about GPGPU, though, is that the current GPUs should be able to do it. At least, CUDA is supported by all of the 8-series NV chips. However I don't know how OpenCL relates to that.
post #34 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by xc3ll View Post

I really hope that the MBP update comes soon. I need a new laptop by mid August.

Intel plan to release the new chips in July, so Apple might start shipping in August in time for back-to-school.
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post #35 of 190
What are people's thoughts on the possibility (maybe not with the next update but one down the road) of Apple switching from a 16:10 display to a 16:9 display? There are rumors of panel suppliers pushing a 15.6-inch 16:9 display into the mainstream, as well as a 17.3" 16:9 display.
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post #36 of 190
As someone looking to replace my MacBook Pro, I have been following the discussion about whether Apple is going to redesign or merely refresh the current model for a while. I am pleased to have discovered AI and its tech-savvy members as a source of interesting info and tidbits. So hope this first post from an amateur enthusiast makes the grade.

The likely technical specifications posted by HFU seem very credible and any machine incorporating them will be worth buying. But this question about the redesign won't go away. Will they or won't they and when?

I agree with the people who say that the reason Apple hasn't changed the design of the MacBook Pro is because they got it so right the first time. From the little I know about how Apple operates, they were never going to re-design the MacBook Pro until new technology allowed them to incorporate some worthwhile advantages over the existing model. But I am starting to wonder whether that technology has now have arrived.

When the MacBook Air was launched, Apple said that it was able to make it so thin because it used assorted components from the new Penryn chipset which take up much less room than the previous Santa Rosa design. The same chips with various Centrino 2 components used in the MBP similarly take-up much less space than before.

I wonder whether enough space has been liberated to allow Apple to create a much slimmer and lighter enclosure for the MacBook Pro. Losing a few millimeters thickness would surely reduce the overall weight. Add the new flat keyboard and a gesture-enabled trackpad and you get some idea as to how Apple could evolve the current design to provide some useful benefits.

Does anybody know about this or have a view?
post #37 of 190
Is there really any need to make the MBP any thinner? An inch is a nice round number, and I feel like they could take the extra space and improve heat dissipation and hopefully fit a 9600m in there.
post #38 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by alxths View Post

Is there really any need to make the MBP any thinner? An inch is a nice round number, and I feel like they could take the extra space and improve heat dissipation and hopefully fit a 9600m in there.

Word to Apple: Thinner or not, just make it.
post #39 of 190
20mm would also be a nice round number
post #40 of 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by crocodile View Post

When the MacBook Air was launched, Apple said that it was able to make it so thin because it used assorted components from the new Penryn chipset which take up much less room than the previous Santa Rosa design. The same chips with various Centrino 2 components used in the MBP similarly take-up much less space than before.

Does anybody know about this or have a view?

Sure, Apple can shave a couple of millimeters from the MBP enclosure, but it will not be because of the cpus/chipsets used. What limits the thining is the size of the ODD, HDD and battery.

The penryn chipset DOESN'T take much less room than the previous Santa Rosa design. There will still be regular size and regular/medium voltage parts as well as smaller parts with medium/low/ultra low voltage. Montevina+Penryn bring more variety to the components choice. All are not smaller, all are not lower voltage.

IMO, Apple will still use regular size and regular voltage cpus/chipsets in the MBP in order to have the fastest computers possible: 35W parts will allow for 2.53/2.66/2.80GHz cpus.

Medium voltage parts (25W) will top at 2.53GHz.
Small package parts (25W) will top at 2.40GHz.
SP LV parts (17W, replacement for the MBA) will top at 1.86GHz.

IMO, the MBP needs to stay on top of the performance.

The MB is the one who will benefit the most of the Montevina platform using 25W parts (2.26/2.40/2.53GHz) and X4500 graphics. Depending on what GM chipset Apple will use in the MB, graphics perfromance could double from the current X3100. And with the 25W parts, the battery life will surely increase significantly.
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