or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Other Discussion › AppleOutsider › PoliticalOutsider › What Obama Really Believes
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

What Obama Really Believes

post #1 of 202
Thread Starter 
Obama has positioned himself as the champion of the middle class, about to bring Change!!! to millions. He's portrayed as a moderate trying to change Washington. Those who call him a liberal are dealt with swiftly. They are personally attacked, called racists, fascists, stupid, warmongers, etc.

But Obama is not a moderate. He's playing the same game liberal democrats have played for a generation...he's pretending he's a moderate to get elected.

From today's WSJ:

Quote:
"Globalization and technology and automation all weaken the position of workers," he said, and a strong government hand is needed to assure that wealth is distributed more equitably.

Did you ever think an American presidential candidate would say that? He's straight up said it: We should redistribute the wealth of the country through the government so things are more fair. It's not just liberal, it's practically Marxist.

Now let's talk about gas prices. In 2006, Nancy Pelosi said this:

Quote:
With skyrocketing gas prices, it is clear that the American people can no longer afford the Republican Rubber Stamp Congress and its failure to stand up to Republican big oil and gas company cronies. Americans this week are paying $2.91 a gallon on average for regular gasoline 33 cents higher than last month, and double the price than when President Bush first came to office.


With record gas prices, record CEO pay packages, and record oil company profits, Speaker Hastert and the Majority Congress continue to give the American people empty rhetoric rather than join Democrats who are working to lower gas prices now.
Democrats have a commonsense plan to help bring down skyrocketing gas prices by cracking down on price gouging, rolling back the billions of dollars in taxpayer subsidies, tax breaks and royalty relief given to big oil and gas companies, and increasing production of alternative fuels.



Let's put aside that there is nothing "commonsense" about that plan. Let's also ignore that things have gotten much worse under Democratic leadership in Congress. Let's just focus on the positive: That the democrats WANTED to bring fuel costs down. Good? Now...



Let's see where the presumptive leader of the party is with bringing down prices.




Quote:
In an interview with CNBC, Barack Obama said he would have preferred a "gradual" increase in gasoline prices.



BARACK OBAMA: "Well, I \tthink that we have been slow to move in a better direction when it comes to \tenergy usage. And the president, frankly, hasn't had an energy policy. And \tas a consequence, we've been consuming energy as if it's infinite. We now \tknow that our demand is badly outstripping supply with China and India \tgrowing as rapidly as they are. So..."



HARWOOD: "So could these high prices \thelp us?"



BARACK OBAMA: "I think that I would have preferred a gradual \tadjustment. The fact that this is such a shock to American pocketbooks is \tnot a good thing. But if we take some steps right now to help people make \tthe adjustment, first of all by putting more money into their pockets, but \talso by encouraging the market to adapt to these new circumstances more \tquickly, particularly US automakers, then I think ultimately, we can come \tout o f this stronger and have a more efficient energy policy than we do \tright now."




So you tell me...does Obama want to help American families by pursuing policies that will lower gas prices and make us more energy independent? No. He thinks higher costs are a good thing...they just happened to quickly.

Obama has also come out and slammed McCain on drilling for oil offshore. Obama does not want more supply. He thinks we are getting our just due. He's made references to this effect before. His message is not one of optimism...it's one of "Americans must learn to do with less and pay more for it." Obama is, in fact, one of the most liberal democratic candidates every to run for the Presidency. He makes John Kerry, Al Gore, and Bill Clinton look like William F. Buckley.

I'd like to hear your response to Obama's quotes on redistribution of wealth and higher fuel prices. Do you honestly believe he will cut taxes for the "middle class?" And if so, who will be defined as such?

SDW
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
post #2 of 202
Links and citations. Do you need to be reminded of this ALL the time?
post #3 of 202
He's definitely a liberal. I don't see how he's hiding it when he does interviews with the Wall Street Journal clearly advocating liberal policies.
post #4 of 202
What Obama really believes... is in the value of socialism. High taxes. Less freedom. "Taking the USA 'down a notch'." Punishing lawful profit. Taking guns from law-abiding people. Ruining the most advanced healthcare system in the world. Paying $6-10 a gallon. Oh, and "CHANGE!" - back to the "old change" of LBJ and Carter. Obama also believes whatever George Soros and crew put up on his teleprompter.

This guy is so far out left that he's going to have a really hard time running from his extremely liberal, though very limited, voting record.

And McCain... is just soooo.... <wretch> "McCain."
"Stand Up for Chuck"
Reply
"Stand Up for Chuck"
Reply
post #5 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell View Post

He's definitely a liberal. I don't see how he's hiding it when he does interviews with the Wall Street Journal clearly advocating liberal policies.

Sure, he's advocating them... it just that he and his spinmeisters have managed, for the time being, to repackage the same old liberal "misery index" policies with bright, shiny new CHANGE! wrappers. Obama's so-called "change" is simply a change of marketing presentation. He's calling himself a uniter... but I don't see any evidence of his willingness to "compromise" and "cross the isle" and all that shit like he is critiquing McCain for.

Just more faux moral high ground, with neat little catchphrases like "Hope" and "Uniter" and "Change!." There is absolutely nothing new about this man's approach... he's taking a page directly from the WJC playbook... a "New Democrat." Same socialist shit, different day. Bigger government. Higher taxes. More people dependent than ever. You know, the liberal wet dream.

Obama's a lockstep liberal of the highest order, in fact, he's been rated among the most liberal in the entire Senate. And that is saying something with Kennedy, Levin, Schumer, and Leahy trodding about. Not that we'd know all that much, because he had only been there less than a year when he started running for president.
"Stand Up for Chuck"
Reply
"Stand Up for Chuck"
Reply
post #6 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubelum View Post

What Obama really believes... is in the value of socialism. High taxes. Less freedom. "Taking the USA 'down a notch'." Punishing lawful profit. Taking guns from law-abiding people. Ruining the most advanced healthcare system in the world. Paying $6-10 a gallon. Oh, and "CHANGE!" - back to the "old change" of LBJ and Carter. Obama also believes whatever George Soros and crew put up on his teleprompter.

This guy is so far out left that he's going to have a really hard time running from his extremely liberal, though very limited, voting record.

And McCain... is just soooo.... <wretch> "McCain."

... McCain sukz too.

[CENTER][/CENTER]
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
Reply
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
Reply
post #7 of 202
Jubelum, are you saying his liberal policies - higher taxes on the wealthy, lower taxes on the middle class, pay-as-you-go spending, greater social safety net, skepticism towards trade deals, no Guantanamo, no torture, get out of Iraq - don't represent a change from these Republican years we've had?

It's just not true that he's running as a new Democrat. He is clearly not running against his party like Clinton did in 1992. It's not happening. He's neither deceptive about his policies nor is he proposing New Dem/conservatism-lite policies. He's a liberal, and he's running as a liberal.

I only see one same-old-playbook here...
post #8 of 202
Barack Obama on Economics: 'We're Going Through a Big Shift'

Quote:
Sen. Obama: I tend to be eclectic. I do think we're in a different time in 2008 than we were in 1992. The thing I think people should feel confident in is that I'm going to make these judgments not based on some fierce ideological pre-disposition but based on what makes sense. I'm a big believer in evidence. I'm a big believer in fact. You know, if somebody shows me we can do something better through a market mechanism, I'm happy to do it. I have no vested interest in expanding government or setting up a program just for the sake of setting one up. It's too much work.

Thread over. Or at least a break to wipe up all the spittle...
post #9 of 202
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by @_@ Artman View Post

Links and citations. Do you need to be reminded of this ALL the time?

Why, to please you because you're unhappy with the rest of your life? The source of the quotes is clearly indicated. Get real.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
post #10 of 202
I'm no fan of Obama. He's not his own man, now another bought DC hack.

But if you have enjoyed the last (nearly) 7 years of treachery, mass murder, fearmongering, warmongering (or more accurately, multibillion dollar global terrorism), economic mayhem, destruction of the Constitution, rollbacks of civil rights, mass targeting of dissent, and corporate crime and cronyism on a scale never seen since the 1920s, just for starters, then you will LOVE the kind of hardline paranoid extremist administration that McCain's neocon handlers will assemble for him.

The worry re. an Obama administration, is firstly that many people will be under the impression of "phew, thank heavens it's all over, now I can resume my life again", and take down their guard and stop being active. Secondly, the downward momentum as a result of the last 7 years will continue well into Obama's first term, possibly even lasting into the next campaigns in 2012. There is little chance that we will witness a recovery, both economically and in every other area of of life negatively affected by the last 7 years, by the time of the next presidential election. The public will thus view Obama's first term as a failed presidency, and he will be a one term president, at best. Obama (and Clinton) must be aware of this... makes me wonder why either Obama (or Clinton, Huckabee, Romney etc etc) ever bothered running in the first place... unless every single one of them are owned by the same folk.

Obama is (imho) the lesser of the two evils. Granted, the lesser of two evils is still evil, but at least an Obama administration might stop digging the hole that BushCorp keeps working on... or reduce the pace of decay we have witnessed in the last 7 years. I can't see him start filling the hole however...

Are we completely fucked yet? Or will pathological denial help us through the night?

"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
Reply
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
Reply
post #11 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Why, to please you because you're unhappy with the rest of your life? The source of the quotes is clearly indicated. Get real.

post #12 of 202
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by @_@ Artman View Post

Barack Obama on Economics: 'We're Going Through a Big Shift'



Thread over. Or at least a break to wipe up all the spittle...

Thanks for proving my point. He's wrapped his liberalism up in the Teh Change rhetoric. By the way, check out this quote:

Quote:
We've got offices like the patent office that are outdated to take advantage of new discoveries here in the United States.

My lord. The Patent Office is now a wasteful outdated one? My brother, who works as an examiner, will love to hear that.

Also, please see the part about cap and trade. It's going to "generate" $100 billion a year. Holy hell. Do you know how much that's going to cost consumers? A shitload. Right at a time where we cannot afford it. The problem here is Barack Obama needs to be perceived as a champion of the working man, yet his true beliefs require him to give that working man the middle digit in the form of higher taxes.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
post #13 of 202
Thread Starter 
Apparently you're unable to fucking read. And you're accusing me of trolling?

Quote one was prefaced with:

Quote:
From today's WSJ: ..."

Quote three was prefaced with:

Quote:
In an interview with CNBC....

I did not attribute the Pelosi quote. Yeah, you really got me there. It's not like it was a press release from her office or anything.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
post #14 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

The problem here is Barack Obama needs to be perceived as a champion of the working man, yet his true beliefs require him to give that working man the middle digit in the form of higher taxes.

... above? Seriously, or are you just making up stuff, which the Internets is famous for?
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
Reply
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
Reply
post #15 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Apparently you're unable to fucking read. And you're accusing me of trolling?

It's the frickin' internet SDW use it. Be aware that it was this...

Quote:
Why, to please you because you're unhappy with the rest of your life?

and I've been trying my best to be civil...my life is fine. You can go back to band practice now.
post #16 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubelum View Post

Sure, he's advocating them... it just that he and his spinmeisters have managed, for the time being, to repackage the same old liberal "misery index" policies with bright, shiny new CHANGE! wrappers. Obama's so-called "change" is simply a change of marketing presentation.

PAUSE...

I think it needs to be made clear something very meaningful has been noted in the above quote.

"marketing presentation"

We all can see that Obama is really good at the "marketing presentation" aspect of politics and when compared to the "marketing presentation" given by his opponent McCain it is a very bold contrast indeed.

The fact is that Americans are in a situation where by their country no longer feels like their own with a good image around the world. Add to this the inflation pinch we face in the marketplace for health care costs, college costs, fuel costs and food costs and again Americans of all stripes are a bit less than happy with where the country is at the moment.

Ohh did I forget to mention the Iraq component? Don't you know many families would like to have their family members back home after 3+ tours in Iraq? Not to diminish the pain realized by families who lost loved ones to this war...

America is hurting as great as she is she is hurting.

Now because McCain is so pathetic at being a candidate in this contest to be President it shifts many to consider the eventual chances of the reality that it seems more and more likely that Barack Obama will be the next president of the United States.

Much of his success is in fact due to his ability to orate or "present his marketing skill" to people. I would argue that in fact Obama is not unlike Steve Jobs in this way.

The combination of his success of looking more like the GQ (young and good looking) candidate who can actually draw a large rally of people together all conspire together to give Obama a larger score in the "marketing presentation" department than his opponent John McCain shifting back and forth on his feet while also shifting his head to the left to the center to the right (rinse, repeat) while he is not shifting his positions of his memory of his past positions on issues.....

McCain just does not "have it".

Because McCain just does not "have it" we will have a Liberal Obama in the White House next January.

Who is to blame for a conservative / moderate country voting for a liberal President?

Who else..... the lame lame republicans who lost their way..

It is not the only reason for an Obama victory but it is a huge reason.

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
post #17 of 202
As this thread demonstrates, the right doesn't really have anywhere to go with their "liberal" scare rhetoric, this election.

They've had the dial at 11, at "OMFG!!!Most!Liberal!Ever!Commie!Socialist!Mostest !Ever!Evar!!!!!", for so long that it's just background noise at this point.

Trouble being, the American people agree with Obama, and all the Republicans have is trying to convince them that he's something far more sinister than "liberal", that is, a black liberal with some kind of kill whitey secret agenda.

What I believe we have here is an extremist, minority ideology that managed, post 9/11, to convince itself that it was mainstream. Now they've lost the knack for toning it down a bit, when speaking to the country at large, and the American people are being treated to a lot of highly unflattering shrieking and gibbering that is manifestly at odds with reality.

SDW, is there anyway we could take up a collection to send you on a nationwide tour, explaining your misgivings? You, and any of your like-minded friends? Nothing will ensure Obama's election more surely than a full-on dose of "Can you believe it? The American worker deserves better? What a bunch of liberal crap! What a bunch of commies! Or fascists! Both! Everything bad! Stop laughing!"
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
post #18 of 202
What is really sad / stupid just plain nuts is that for years now dissenters have pointed out major flaws going on with this Bush admin. and we the dissent have been told over and over that we "hate America" that we give comfort to the terrorists when we question the war in Iraq etc....

I used to be a proud conservative who voted Republican...

I hit a point in the road when I realized that clearly something was wrong and not just wrong,, big time wrong....

When I backed up and looked at the big picture I saw clearly that the republicans were headed for doom with their power trip arrogance leading their pigheaded ways... Spending like drunken sailors and eroding civil liberties.

Ever since I saw and pointed out the flaws to the remaining republicans here at AI we all still see the staunch support still given to those who enacted these bad policies.

So I must say.....

In light of what the republicans have done to themselves.... I have to ask some of you staunch republican supporters...

Why do you hate your party?

after all you let them get away with all the #$%*#@&(!@ which has led to their political unraveling and this in the context of the reality that America is for the most part pretty much a conservative country.

If you loved your party I would argue that you would have called them on the carpet many years ago...

But NO.... so many of you were good little cheerleaders giving the green light to these pig headed policies like naming french fries to "freedom fries" etc...

SHAME on you fools...

Now look where your party and your country are as a result of you and your party NEVER being "wrong".


Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
post #19 of 202
SDW, the point is when you quote without giving the link, people have to go hunting if they want to read the whole story, and context that may be left out of your snippets. Since you had the quotes, clearly you could have provided the actual links, with minimal to no extra effort. It leaves the impression that you're intentionally making it more difficult for people to access the entire story.

In a way, giving the source but not the link is more annoying than if you hadn't given the source at all.
A good brain ain't diddly if you don't have the facts
Reply
A good brain ain't diddly if you don't have the facts
Reply
post #20 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

... McCain sukz too.

[CENTER][/CENTER]

Find a new bit, frank. Really. This one makes no sense. You still have not been able to show me anything to back up your "Alex Jones" crowing with regard to The Jubelum. Where the hell did you get that so-called "critique" anyway?

Of course, it is about the level of real debate I expect from you... someone supposedly so "brilliant" who cannot put together a sensible, respectful, or meaningful reply.

Maybe I need to start posting "Leon Trotsky, Leon Trotsky" as a "reply" to your posts. Share the fun, ya know.
"Stand Up for Chuck"
Reply
"Stand Up for Chuck"
Reply
post #21 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell View Post

Jubelum, are you saying his liberal policies - higher taxes on the wealthy, lower taxes on the middle class, pay-as-you-go spending, greater social safety net, skepticism towards trade deals, no Guantanamo, no torture, get out of Iraq - don't represent a change from these Republican years we've had?

No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that Obama is claiming to be something new. He isn't. At all.
Also- Obama is going to raise my taxes, and taxes on other middle class people. There is no denying that. Just like Clinton did. His plan to let the Bush tax cut expire will raise taxes on millions of working class families like mine. Obama has not met a tax he will not raise. And also, his trite, old Democrat "punish the rich" income tax plans will do wonders for the people I'm going to lay off to stay in business. Thanks, Barry, they appreciate the love.

Quote:
It's just not true that he's running as a new Democrat. He is clearly not running against his party like Clinton did in 1992. It's not happening. He's neither deceptive about his policies nor is he proposing New Dem/conservatism-lite policies. He's a liberal, and he's running as a liberal.

Have you missed his rhetoric? He's running as a uniter and a "centrist"- just the latest euphemism for "liberal." If he's running as a liberal, he needs to get out there and say- I'm a liberal, here's why you should vote for me and my liberal policies. He's not doing that. He's wrapping himself in "well, it will be CHANGE and UNITED and PROGRESS." He does not have the guts that Maxine Waters does... at least she admits that she's a socialist.

Quote:
I only see one same-old-playbook here...

Yep. The same one that Dukakis, Mondale, LBJ, and Carter used. "The country sucks and I'm going to make other people give you what you desire." Same old playbook indeed.
"Stand Up for Chuck"
Reply
"Stand Up for Chuck"
Reply
post #22 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellowship View Post


Who is to blame for a conservative / moderate country voting for a liberal President?

Who else..... the lame lame republicans who lost their way..

It is not the only reason for an Obama victory but it is a huge reason.

Fellows

100% correct.

And you are mostly right with the "marketing presentation" ideas.

If the country is so hungry for a person like Obama... based on the issues, why doesn't he get out and tell us exactly what his solutions are, with specifics, and let the American people decide? We're not going to get that without a lot of effort... we're going to get "Bush, Change, Hope, Change, Bush, Windfall Profits, Tax the Rich, Hope, Change, Believe" and maybe the occasional "bitter."

I would just love to see liberals have the pride and confidence in their beliefs to get out there and tell the truth about the goals, rather than the marketing fall back rhetoric of "shared prosperity" and "compassion." I'd love to see BHO get up to a podium, and proudly proclaim his beliefs... "to all of you who have investments, I'm going to raise the cap gains by ten points and tax you more, for the benefit of other people." Come out, be plain about your goals, and stand proudly for your vision. Stop hiding behind the rhetorical skirt, Obama.

But no..

He's not going to talk about what a windfall profits tax will actually accomplish.
He's not going to talk about what a capital gains increase of 10 points will actually accomplish.
He's not going to talk about what taking guns away from law abiding people will actually accomplish.
He's not going to talk about what a marginal tax rate increase will actually accomplish.

More of that "unintended consequences" sorta "oops" crap that we'll understand a decade or so after it is too late.
"Stand Up for Chuck"
Reply
"Stand Up for Chuck"
Reply
post #23 of 202
Could someone show me where, specifically, Obama has claimed he will raise taxes on the MC? I've only ever heard that from, well, people like SDW and Jube.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Reply
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Reply
post #24 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

The problem here is Barack Obama needs to be perceived as a champion of the working man, yet his true beliefs require him to give that working man the middle digit in the form of higher taxes.

Yep... raising my taxes and blocking lower energy prices, added to ethanol-fantasy-driven food increases, are going to do wonders for this middle class guy. Thank god Barack is here to save us, by further exacerbating our economic situation.
"Stand Up for Chuck"
Reply
"Stand Up for Chuck"
Reply
post #25 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubelum View Post

Find a new bit, frank. Really. This one makes no sense. You still have not been able to show me anything to back up your "Alex Jones" crowing with regard to The Jubelum. Where the hell did you get that so-called "critique" anyway?

Of course, it is about the level of real debate I expect from you... someone supposedly so "brilliant" who cannot put together a sensible, respectful, or meaningful reply.

Maybe I need to start posting "Leon Trotsky, Leon Trotsky" as a "reply" to your posts. Share the fun, ya know.

Do you fell "victimized" by our goobermint trying to control your every bowel movement? Because that appears to be the persistent theme in your contentless drive-by posts coming through at this end;

[CENTER]
Quote:
What Obama really believes... is in the value of socialism. High taxes. Less freedom. "Taking the USA 'down a notch'." Punishing lawful profit. Taking guns from law abiding people. Ruining the most advanced healthcare system in the world. Paying $6-10 a gallon for milk? Oh, and "CHANGE!" - back to the "old change" of LBJ and Carter. Obama also believes whatever George Soros and crew put up on his teleprompter.

[/CENTER]

If you want a serious reply, perhaps you should start with a serious post.

Mao, Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Lenin, Trotsky, Bush, Cheney, Rice, McCain, Marx, Mussolini, Castro, Chávez.
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
Reply
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
Reply
post #26 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by midwinter View Post

Could someone show me where, specifically, Obama has claimed he will raise taxes on the MC? I've only ever heard that from, well, people like SDW and Jube.

Come on, middy... It's called ending the Bush tax cuts. You know, the ones that put $2400 back in my MIDDLE CLASS pocket.

And do you not think that cap gains increases will affect the middle class? Really?
"Stand Up for Chuck"
Reply
"Stand Up for Chuck"
Reply
post #27 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

Do you fell "victimized" by our goobermint trying to control your every bowel movement? Because that appears to be the persistent theme in your contentless drive-by posts coming through at this end;

Focus, if you can, frank. The topic is "Obama."

Quote:
What Obama really believes... is in the value of socialism. High taxes. Less freedom. "Taking the USA 'down a notch'." Punishing lawful profit. Taking guns from law abiding people. Ruining the most advanced healthcare system in the world. Paying $6-10 a gallon for milk? Oh, and "CHANGE!" - back to the "old change" of LBJ and Carter. Obama also believes whatever George Soros and crew put up on his teleprompter.

If you want a serious reply, perhaps you should start with a serious post.

Obama wants higher taxes. He wants less freedom for people to make their own decisions, especially economically. He's a purveyor of the "image of the US in the world" tripe. He's for windfall profit taxes, which punish lawful profit. He's for sweeping gun bans. He's for socialized medicine. He's against us getting the oil under our feet and off our shores, ensuring higher gas prices. His proposals are what they are... old, tired liberal solutions. I'm sorry it's that way... but he's your liberal candidate.

And add to your list with scaling graphics... it is also rather bad form to alter someone's post in what looks like a direct quote. If you want to ask a question about "milk" then ask it, but don't portray your bullshit as being from my keyboard. Thanks.

Of course, you really should be ignoring me, remember... as you put it... "I'm just some guy hiding behind a screen name."
"Stand Up for Chuck"
Reply
"Stand Up for Chuck"
Reply
post #28 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubelum View Post

Come on, middy... It's called ending the Bush tax cuts. You know, the ones that put $2400 back in my MIDDLE CLASS pocket.

And do you not think that cap gains increases will affect the middle class? Really?

... you say so. Hey Kreskin, what's Obama thinking at this very moment? He's must, according to your rants, be thinking; I really need to pick the pockets of the middle class.
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
Reply
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
Reply
post #29 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by midwinter View Post

Could someone show me where, specifically, Obama has claimed he will raise taxes on the MC? I've only ever heard that from, well, people like SDW and Jube.

The most recent, lucid discussion on both McCain's and Obama's tax plans. At least in the MSM. CNN's take on their proposals.

You may need to dig deeper, like reading more from the Tax Policy Center web site.
post #30 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubelum View Post

No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that Obama is claiming to be something new. He isn't. At all.

Also- Obama is going to raise my taxes, and taxes on other middle class people. There is no denying that. Just like Clinton did. His plan to let the Bush tax cut expire will raise taxes on millions of working class families like mine. Obama has not met a tax he will not raise. And also, his trite, old Democrat "punish the rich" income tax plans will do wonders for the people I'm going to lay off to stay in business. Thanks, Barry, they appreciate the love.

First, it was Bush and the Republicans who passed the law making Bush's tax cuts expire so they didn't look as bad on the books. Obama had nothing to do with that. Second, Obama is only going to let the tax cuts on people making over $250,000 expire, which is only about 1% of the population. Third, yeah, it's great to have a free lunch like we've been doing, but sometimes the adults have to come back and put things in order. And only a conservative would consider tax cuts "love."

Quote:
Have you missed his rhetoric? He's running as a uniter and a "centrist"- just the latest euphemism for "liberal." If he's running as a liberal, he needs to get out there and say- I'm a liberal, here's why you should vote for me and my liberal policies. He's not doing that. He's wrapping himself in "well, it will be CHANGE and UNITED and PROGRESS." He does not have the guts that Maxine Waters does... at least she admits that she's a socialist.

That's just not accurate. I've been following things pretty closely, and Obama is most definitely not running as a centrist. Sure, a uniter, but that doesn't imply he's not a liberal. Bill Clinton ran ads in 1992 calling himself a new kind of Democrat, saying that he supported the death penalty and the 1991 Iraq war. That's not the campaign Obama is running.
post #31 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubelum View Post

Focus, if you can, frank. The topic is "Obama."



Obama wants higher taxes. He wants less freedom for people to make their own decisions, especially economically. He's a purveyor of the "image of the US in the world" tripe. He's for windfall profit taxes, which punish lawful profit. He's for sweeping gun bans. He's for socialized medicine. He's against us getting the oil under our feet and off our shores, ensuring higher gas prices. His proposals are what they are... old, tired liberal solutions. I'm sorry it's that way... but he's your liberal candidate.

And add to your list with scaling graphics... it is also rather bad form to alter someone's post in what looks like a direct quote. If you want to ask a question about "milk" then ask it, but don't portray your bullshit as being from my keyboard. Thanks.

Of course, you really should be ignoring me, remember... as you put it... "I'm just some guy hiding behind a screen name."

Methinks someone is getting a bit testy. Keep throwing your quips out there, keep throwing your darts at me. Your rants are highly amusing at this end.
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
Reply
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
Reply
post #32 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

My lord. The Patent Office is now a wasteful outdated one? My brother, who works as an examiner, will love to hear that.

Now come on, doesn't everyone agree that our current patent system needs reform?
post #33 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell View Post

Now come on, doesn't everyone agree that our current patent system needs reform?

Nah. I don't have a problem with loopholes in the patent law allowing companies to patent parts of my body.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Reply
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Reply
post #34 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubelum View Post

Come on, middy... It's called ending the Bush tax cuts. You know, the ones that put $2400 back in my MIDDLE CLASS pocket.

And do you not think that cap gains increases will affect the middle class? Really?

Please show me where Barack Obama has said he is going to raise taxes on the middle class. That was the claim. Ending the Bush tax cuts (which we're just going to have to pay back, eventually) does not necessarily mean that tax rates on the MC will the altered.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Reply
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Reply
post #35 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by @_@ Artman View Post

The most recent, lucid discussion on both McCain's and Obama's tax plans. At least in the MSM. CNN's take on their proposals.

You may need to dig deeper, like reading more from the Tax Policy Center web site.

Indeed. Salient points:

1) The tax cuts are set to expire in 2010. Period. It is not a question of raising or lowering.

2) Obama wants to let them expire for individuals making over $250K, such as Jube and his middle class pockets.

3) Obama wants to give the MC tax breaks.

4) Obama wants to raise cap gains and dividends taxes.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Reply
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Reply
post #36 of 202
If I'm following this, a $2400 tax hike obliges the over $250,000 a year earning Jubelum to "lay off workers"?

Doesn't that make you just an asshole?
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
post #37 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

If I'm following this, a $2400 tax hike obliges the over $250,000 a year earning Jubelum to "lay off workers"?

Doesn't that make you just an asshole?

You have to consider the boat payments, dude. Boat. Payments.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Reply
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Reply
post #38 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubelum View Post

No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that Obama is claiming to be something new. He isn't. At all.

No, he's not claiming to be "new" as much as "change". He borrows a lot of cues from the democratic past...after 8 years of Republican rule...a fondly remembered past at that.

Quote:
Also- Obama is going to raise my taxes, and taxes on other middle class people.

And also rich folks too. And he has no choice anyway.

1) We're deeply in debt.
2) Given the price of oil rapid economic growth is unlikely
3) After 8 years of what should have been sound fiscal policy but in reality was the worst of both worlds of tax cut & spend we the people better take responsibility for voting in a moron twice in a row and that means higher taxes.

Because I'm not too keen on the concept of just foisting all this debt on our kids.

Quote:
There is no denying that.

So? Suck it up. If you voted for Bush at all you deserve it...oh, of course, you're a libertarian now. How convienent.

Quote:
Just like Clinton did.

Oh, you're refering to the "good old days".

Quote:
His plan to let the Bush tax cut expire will raise taxes on millions of working class families like mine.

Good. We need the money. Not for bigger government but to PAY for the dumb assed decisions of the last 8 years.

Quote:
Obama has not met a tax he will not raise. And also, his trite, old Democrat "punish the rich" income tax plans will do wonders for the people I'm going to lay off to stay in business. Thanks, Barry, they appreciate the love.

You are "rich" relatively speaking. So am I. Claiming struggling middle class status is bullshit. How much do you make a year? I'm betting 6 figures total family income.
post #39 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

If I'm following this, a $2400 tax hike obliges the over $250,000 a year earning Jubelum to "lay off workers"?

Doesn't that make you just an asshole?

At $250K he vastly out earns me and earns 5 times the median 2006 household income of $48,201.

While I favor keeping the Long Term Cap Gains tax where it is right now to promote investment, I'm betting that median income household would likely be impacted 0% if cap gains tax was raised.

Republicans are assholes. I should know, I are one. Oh wait, again, I forgot. He's a "Libertarian".
post #40 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Why, to please you because you're unhappy with the rest of your life? The source of the quotes is clearly indicated. Get real.


When you don't like the replies you get personal which is just so laughable!

So Obama is a champion of change and the middle class. Given how things are out there I'm still waiting to hear how that's bad.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: PoliticalOutsider
AppleInsider › Forums › Other Discussion › AppleOutsider › PoliticalOutsider › What Obama Really Believes